Knowledge Arcana

[Seharvepernfan]

What are some examples of knowledge arcana checks? Ones that don't have to do with dragons, magical beasts, or constructs, that is. Spellcraft gives very concrete examples, but when would I use arcana and not spellcraft?

Ancient mysteries
that aren't knowledge history?

Magic traditions
Like, a cultural thing that actually has a magical effect? And it's not spellcraft? If it's not magical, wouldn't this be knowledge local or geography?

Arcane symbols
Wouldn't this be spellcraft?

Cryptic phrases
Okay what

I want arcana to be separate from spellcraft, and I have some vague notions of when it might be appropriate to use it instead, but my vague notions don't line up with the examples. Also, I think I remember reading somewhere that draconic is often used in magical texts and such, but I've never seen anything besides that one line, wherever it was.

[Feantar]

First of all, knowledges overlap. If you want to roll a knowledge check about the magnificent explosives of the renowned evoker of old, Malhor the Three-Fingered, you can both roll History or Arcana.

Now, on your specific examples:


Ancient Misteries: That is too vague. Ancient Magic Riddles? Ancient Secret Societies? Ancient Planar Invasions?
Magic Traditions: Knowledge Arcana will tell you the abstract theory behind the tradition and be able to connect it to other relevant traditions, knowledge history will tell you the possible cultural reasons it arose and some rumours on what it could do. Spellcraft will tell you, if you see the tradition in practice, what's it doing. As in "This probably evokes fire though a planar vortex".
Arcane Symbols: Once again, spellcraft will tell you what they do, Arcana will tell you where they come from. Arcana is contextual knowledge, spellcraft is practical application.
Cryptic Phrases: I have no idea on that one. Intelligence check? Decipher script? I don't think spellcraft or any knowledge is directly helpful here.


Let's have a different example: Architecture & Engineering vs Craft(Stonemason) - as spellcraft is essentially Craft(Magic). Setting; an ancient temple:


Knowledge: *traces hand over one of the pillars* Ah, this is elder titan architecture, early form; the room seems to be one of their ritual chamber, designed to sustain the quakes those dark invocations tended to cause. See, if you draw projections from the shadows of each pillar from the torch sconches, they are meant to meet on the center. And -this- one is clearly a new addition, as it's shadow diverges.
Craft: *frowns, looks at pillar - thumps on it a bit* Huh. This pillar's not load bearing...


PS: I am aware the above example includes history, but every knowledge dabbles in the history of its profession.

[daremetoidareyo]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21683940&postcount=2

That should do it

[Seharvepernfan]

Well, that certainly helps, so thank you!

I went and looked at PF to see what they did, and they pretty much threw away the old arcana stuff and split up spellcraft into two skills.

[Psyren]

Well, that certainly helps, so thank you!

I went and looked at PF to see what they did, and they pretty much threw away the old arcana stuff and split up spellcraft into two skills.

Wait what? :smallconfused:

PF still uses Arcana to identify creatures, magical traditions, symbols, mysteries etc. The fact that other knowledge skills like History can get you some of the latter information too is a feature, not a bug. The whole idea is that your plot won't come to a screeching halt just because nobody felt like playing Raistlin in that campaign.

[KillianHawkeye]

I generally see Spellcraft as only being useful for identifying a spell being cast or understanding a magic effect that's both active and observable. Everything else magic-related falls under Knowledge (Arcana).

Basically, Spellcraft can tell you that the guy over their in the red cape is casting a fire spell. Arcana tells you that the "Red Sorcerers of Kel-Azir" are reknowned for their skill with fire spells and rarely use other kinds of attack magic. Spellcraft can tell you that a wall of fire can be temporarily overcome with ice magic. Arcana tells you that creatures with the Fire subtype are usually vulnerable to the cold.

[Mordaedil]

Practical versus theory, I like it.

[Ellrin]

Practical versus theory, I like it.

That's basically how I'd describe it, yeah. Someone with high Kn(arcana) is like a theoretical physicist; someone with high Spellcraft is like an engineer. It's the difference between knowing how things work, and knowing how to make things work.