Fair fight?

[gryffydd65]

Would it be a fair fight if 5 3rd level party say, fighter,bard, cleric ,rogue,wizard, fought 3 5th level party barbarian , sorcerer and ranger?

Thinking of running a campaign in which the first group of 5 doesn't know the second group of three is tracking them.

Any ideas to make this balanced as I want 8 total players for this game.

[the_brazenburn]

If we assume that they have CR equal to their level (might or might not be possible), then the group of 3 has total XP of 1,800 x 3, x 2 due to encounter modifier. Total XP: 10,800.

The group of 5, on the other hand, has total XP of 700 x 5, x 2 because of encounter modifier. Total XP: 7,000.

It might be possible to have a fair fight, if the environment is stacked against the higher-level group. If they have the element of surprise, no way.

[MaxWilson]

Would it be a fair fight if 5 3rd level party say, fighter,bard, cleric ,rogue,wizard, fought 3 5th level party barbarian , sorcerer and ranger?

Thinking of running a campaign in which the first group of 5 doesn't know the second group of three is tracking them.

Any ideas to make this balanced as I want 8 total players for this game.

Any time you've got two groups in conflict, but the first group is not aware that there is a conflict... that's not going to be a fair fight unless the second group messes up horrendously.

[Coec]

I think it depends on the tactics used. If the party of 3 waited until the party of 5 set camp and then picked them off one at a time starting with the cleric, then this could be a very hard if not deadly fight for the now party of 4 to handle.

Toe to toe, it's probably a medium too hard challenge for the party of 5 because they have healers and the smaller group doesn't

[Crgaston]

The difference between 3rd and 5th level is huge in terms of power.

Pass Without Trace makes it highly likely the party of 3 will get surprise.

Have the Sorcerer quicken fireball and firebolt the squishiest person left standing. Then the Ranger and Barbarian can mop up. Quite possibly in one round.

Or Spike Growth and take cover the first round, and then have the Sorcerer drop an upcast Sleep if they're more interested in taking prisoners.

[Ganders]

In any PvP there is a lot of potential to one-shot characters. Partly because of saving throws to things like Hold Person, but partly because of large damage from things like sneak attack, fireball, or even just focused fire. Someone could easily die before their first initiative comes up, so they have no chance to do anything. The game is designed this way -- monsters are meant to die so it's ok if monsters take a bunch of sudden and seemingly-unfair deaths, it's fun and dramatic. But when those attacks are trained on other players, it's brutal. This is true of any parties, even if they're evenly matched. Stealth and initiative could easily determine who dies first, so it's risky either way. However...

3 times 5 equals 5 times 3, but level 3 is part of the first tier of play and level 5 is part of the second tier of play, so I don't think they're equivelant. Second tier is just more powerful.

Especially if the level 3s don't realize they're being hunted, they're likely to be ambushed. If the sorcerer opens with a fireball or two while the ranger takes multiple attacks per turn from a long range (especially if he has Sharpshooter), it could be over before the barbarian even gets close.

The average damage for fireball is more than a level 3 character has, unless he makes his save.

[gryffydd65]

So what level encounter for a group of five versus a group of three would be fair

[Foxhound438]

pretty sure that a heightened and empowered fireball would 1 shot most of the level 3 party. Something like 33 damage, but I don't want to do the math right now. Even a fighter with +3 con would only have 31HP, the rest are even worse off