Phantasmal Force Use - DM's please rule

[MarkVIIIMarc]

This is an interesting spell.

Let's say I cast Phantasmal Force on a bad guy. He fails the instant save and believes his head is in an internally mirrored box filled with water and his hands are bound.

On the bad guy's turn what does he do?

My idea (and I DM a bit also somehow!), is:

-if the bad guy is a dumb Orc he tries to break free and smash the box on his head. He'll make a strength check against the imaginary rope rationalizing the success as a, well, success. Next turn he'll go after the mirrored box.

-if the bad guy is a magic user he may think "how did this get here!" and investigate it on his action.

-Perhaps rolling a D20 and if the character's intelligence beats the roll I'd have him investigate it, if it loses to the roll he fights it?

Or do you all always have the victim make an Intelligence save and not fight it?

[Darth Ultron]

Consider the following: 1) How intelligent is the target of the spell; 2) How out-of-place is the circumstance (cyclone indoors? earthquake on a ship?); 3) How long has the illusion been in effect (My axe went straight through it?!)

For your Orc situation, they are reasoning creatures if not particularly well-educated.

Initially, the Orc will probably be surprised and act as you said.

Either way, if the orc is intelligent enough or the circumstances are correct, then roll for the investigation check. If he has no reason to suspect this is an illusion, then have him do what any normal orc would do during a normal wolf attack.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Consider the following: 1) How intelligent is the target of the spell; 2) How out-of-place is the circumstance (cyclone indoors? earthquake on a ship?); 3) How long has the illusion been in effect (My axe went straight through it?!)

For your Orc situation, they are reasoning creatures if not particularly well-educated.

Initially, the Orc will probably be surprised and act as you said.

Either way, if the orc is intelligent enough or the circumstances are correct, then roll for the investigation check. If he has no reason to suspect this is an illusion, then have him do what any normal orc would do during a normal wolf attack.

Cool.

When it comes up in a session I am DMing I want to be consistent with what the party expects.

PF doesn't do much damage but it can be incapacitating. As a user of it I THINK I know its weaknesses and how to keep it from being OP.

[Coffee_Dragon]

Two notes on spell functionality:

1. "His hands are bound" doesn't seem to fit what the spell does. It creates an object, creature, environmental hazard etc., you shouldn't be able to add random circumstances beyond that. If you make an illusion of manacles, that's the whole illusion. If the target believes their head to be in a box, then they can't also believe their hands, which they can't see, to be tied, because there's no power in the spell to actually restrain them.

2. There is some disagreement on whether the illusion moves with the target or not. Some say it can move as appropriate because it's only in the target's head, not a normal "hard light" illusion. Others say it can't because the spell doesn't say.

One possible way to adjudicate the box-around-head would be to say the target instinctively tosses about, thereby escaping the box (since it has no power to hold them), then rationalizes this (maybe it was hinged somehow) and carries on with their day. I would be tempted to do something like that if a player insisted on gimmicky complex illusions that didn't really fit the "one thing" condition. If by picking the specifics of the illusion you could auto-immobilize an enemy, everyone would do it always, that would be what the spell did, and it would probably be higher level. It's powerful enough if you just summon up a flaming hellbat.

[Dys Dogeater]

Every action the orc takes I would rule is his "investigation" even if he intended it to be or not he is "trying to break the bonds" and "trying to break the box".

I guess what I am saying is trying to break things is a type of investigation.

[Quoxis]

Every action the orc takes I would rule is his "investigation" even if he intended it to be or not he is "trying to break the bonds" and "trying to break the box".

I guess what I am saying is trying to break things is a type of investigation.

Yeah no. The orc can choose to either investigate or break free - if he does the latter, the spell states that he’s not in any way hindered, but rationalizes it, in this case: he breaks free without a check, thinking „wow, those were some weak ropes“, but the spell is still on. If he investigates the ropes (before or after breaking free from them“ he‘ll roll a check and if he succeeds, the head-box disappears as well.

[Ellisthion]

For most illusions (including PF) I tend to say that if it quite obviously doesn't make sense, then the vast majority of creatures will start by investigating it.

Random box of water suddenly appears on your head? "Thog think box make no sense!" -> Investigation check.

If it's a more gradual / plausible illusion, (eg: a magical wall of fire springing up, or an avalanche), I'd be more inclined for most creatures to take it at face value.

Think about it. IRL, if a box of water appeared on your head, your first thought would be, "that makes no sense". If a bridge that's your only escape route suddenly collapsed, your first thought would be, "oh noes, the bridge collapsed". Even in a world of magic, a head-water-box is rather unexpected.

[Lalliman]

I would argue that binding someone's arms with Phantasmal Force is simply not an option. For one, it doesn't exert physical force, so it can't pull his arms together; they have to be in position to be bound anyways. Even if they are, the target might move his arms apart before even realising that he's bound, since people in combat are nonstop moving around anyways. And even if he notices the ropes, the first thing anyone would do, completely thoughtlessly, when noticing ropes around their arms, would be to try moving their arms apart. Which would immediately result in their arms passing through the ropes. This would take like half a second, so definitely not their action. Object interaction, maybe. He may be briefly confused about what just happened, but not enough to distract him from the fact that he's in the middle of combat.

So basically, if someone did what you suggested, I'd tell them it's not a valid use of the spell and to choose something else.

The box on the head is valid, though I would definitely count any action that the target takes to interact with it as being an Inventigation check. It's silly to think that you can't recognise an illusion unless you're specifically looking for it. When he tries to pull the box off and his hands go right through, that's enough reason for even an orc to question whether it's real.

[Pex]

Some DMs balk at Phantasmal Force creating an illusion that supposedly physically constrains an opponent. A person will naturally try to yank chains, and because there are no real chains the person can move but think he broke the chains. Better to treat the spell like Major Image that only your target perceives. By the spell it's ok to have something that looks like it causes damage to justify the 1d6 psychic damage, but don't go out of your way to rationalize it. The spell is about control and trickery, not damage.

However, if your DM has every bad guy rationalize away every illusion to never work as you intended, that's the DM metagaming making the spell worthless. Talk to your DM. If you cannot come to an agreement get a new spell or new DM.