Battle tactics you always forget or mean to use?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

For me it is cover. I think about using it driving to every session. My Lore Bard has no need to be in melee with anyone and should move, cast or shoot and move back behind cover. Every so often I actually do it.

What I always forget to use is a disguise to cause chaos. I have a disguise kit and a couple party members have the disguise self ability. The Rogue finally used his hat of disguise self last session and was still disguised in battle. Why do we always forget that?!?!??!

[theCourier]

I feel like all the plans I have for combat are usually tossed out when an actual combat happens! Mine would probably be grapple, because as much as I like the idea of tackling/grabbing enemies and forcing them to yield to my character's MIGHTY Strength score, I usually forego this and just swing my weapon. :p

[GlenSmash!]

Cover and Choke points. Also having a Reach weapon user stand behind the Tough guy who is occupying that choke point is pretty great too.

Still I forget it all the time.

Edit: One I usually remember is dropping down a Spike Growth and luring enemies into it. Very fun.

[BeefGood]

Also having a Reach weapon user stand behind the Tough guy who is occupying that choke point is pretty great too.
.

With a Reach weapon you can attack “through” an ally?

[Crgaston]

With a Reach weapon you can attack “through” an ally?
Through their space, yes. Think pike wall.

[Wryte]

I'm really bad about remembering when I have reactions other than opportunity attacks and the Shield spell.

[Samayu]

I forget half my character sheet. We were well into the second combat of the night before I remembered my wild magic features - Tides of Chaos, sorcery points, metamagic, Bend Luck...

[GlenSmash!]

With a Reach weapon you can attack “through” an ally?

I know of no rule that would forbid it. And it was a commonly used battle tactic in the real world, so I can't see disallowing it.


Through their space, yes. Think pike wall.

Like that yes.

[mephnick]

Well the drive after every single session as a DM has at least one instance of "****, I forgot __________ could do ___________. That would have made the fight way more exciting.."

Like that time I forgot the Otyugh could slam grappled opponents together like a pair of cymbals and stun them. When am I going to get a chance to do that again?

[ImproperJustice]

When I was playing an Alchemist I would either forget or never get my Thunderstone to work favorably.

The closest I ever got was when our team bruiser fell victim to a pair of ancient Monks spamming stunning strike and flurry on him. He was prone, and we were both in the way of our other allies who all had good saves. I unleashed the stone and chose to fail my save. The bruiser auto failed and we both got knocked back 10’ past our front line.
Sadly the Monks made their save, while our Paladin ironicly bricked hers and lost her Bless spell along with her footing.

Still, I think I saved our Fighter’s life.


I will also second every hope of trying to use disguise tactics.

Setting up bear traps never seems to work either.

[GlenSmash!]

Well the drive after every single session as a DM has at least one instance of "****, I forgot __________ could do ___________. That would have made the fight way more exciting.."

Like that time I forgot the Otyugh could slam grappled opponents together like a pair of cymbals and stun them. When am I going to get a chance to do that again?

Oh yeah I forget all sorts of stuff on monster statblocks.

[SociopathFriend]

Well the thing for my current DM is he's my older brother sooooo- anything I use can and will be used against me.

Like we played Chult last week and he used those tower-stacked-Golbins on us? There were two of us at level 2 and we knocked both towers over- we were flanked to hell for that.

I don't think I've yet used a grappling hook despite buying one every time when we start a campaign.

[Tanarii]

With a Reach weapon you can attack “through” an ally?
Yes. The ally provides cover to the enemy.

IMX thats part of basic tactics, along with Dodging, cover, choke points, etc.

Of if you play in open fields like some people apparently do, being a mounted Horse Archer or Spell sniper and kiting like crazy.

[GlenSmash!]

Yes. The ally provides cover to the enemy.

IMX thats part of basic tactics, along with Dodging, cover, choke points, etc.

Of if you play in open fields like some people apparently do, being a mounted Horse Archer or Spell sniper and kiting like crazy.

Oh yeah, kiting.

It's something I see brought up from time to time, sometimes touted as an unbeatable strategy, but for me terrain has always made kiting beyond a single round impractical if not downright impossible.

[MaxWilson]

Through their space, yes. Think pike wall.

Partial cover applies equally to ranged and melee weapons though, so it does potentially grant the bad guy partial cover. Might as well just use a ranged weapon.


Oh yeah, kiting.

It's something I see brought up from time to time, sometimes touted as an unbeatable strategy, but for me terrain has always made kiting beyond a single round impractical if not downright impossible.

Kiting doesn't really work except as a coordinated strategy. It's all about target-denial. If one PC tries to hold the range open while other PCs charge into melee and commence making melee attacks, the monsters still have a juicy target in front of them. If the other PCs don't really know how to manage range intelligently, you basically have to choose between (1) fighting stupidly like they do; (2) fighting smart while letting them take a lot of damage fighting stupidly and possibly grow to resent you; (3) sneaking ahead alone and killing all the monsters who are vulnerable to kiting before the other PCs get there.

[GlenSmash!]

Partial cover applies equally to ranged and melee weapons though, so it does potentially grant the bad guy partial cover. Might as well just use a ranged weapon.

Dang, you're right. What about a Halfling moving into the Meatshield's space to deliver a melee attack then dropping back?

My goal is to have to make baddies get past the Tough guy in the choke point. Maybe have an Evocation wizard scuplting AOE spells past the meatshield to devastate the enemy?

And I just remembered Sharpshooter feat ignores cover so yeah, ranged attack is totally fine.



Kiting doesn't really work except as a coordinated strategy. It's all about target-denial. If one PC tries to hold the range open while other PCs charge into melee and commence making melee attacks, the monsters still have a juicy target in front of them. If the other PCs don't really know how to manage range intelligently, you basically have to choose between (1) fighting stupidly like they do; (2) fighting smart while letting them take a lot of damage fighting stupidly and possibly grow to resent you; (3) sneaking ahead alone and killing all the monsters who are vulnerable to kiting before the other PCs get there.

It seems to me that even in a coordinated strategy, the DM can still just not have the Monsters follow the PCs. I probably would have less tactical monsters fall for it, but Hobgoblins and other adversaries known for tactics and martial ability I could see falling back and setting up their own juicy surprise.

That could actually be a fun scenario, two parties trying to goad the other into the other into attacking first.

[Dudewithknives]

Everyone I play with forgets that it is an action to search for hidden people.

When playing a monk I always forget they have step of the wind as an option.

[Tanarii]

Partial cover applies equally to ranged and melee weapons though, so it does potentially grant the bad guy partial cover. Might as well just use a ranged weapon.That means you can't drop your weapon and rotate spaces in the line when time comes.

Of course, some tactics just aren't going to work very well with a 3-4 person skirmish squad, and a line of combat with spare melee to attack over it with Reach weapons is one of them. Used to be awesome in BECMI or AD&D though, each player with a grip of henchmen ...

(Edit: speaking of older edition rules, I kinda miss firing into melee penalties.)

[Blood of Gaea]

Ironically as a Wizard, I often forget that "just hit them all with a fireball" is a totally viable option, and usually go for something like an Illusion or crowd control.

[MaxWilson]

It seems to me that even in a coordinated strategy, the DM can still just not have the Monsters follow the PCs. I probably would have less tactical monsters fall for it, but Hobgoblins and other adversaries known for tactics and martial ability I could see falling back and setting up their own juicy surprise.

That could actually be a fun scenario, two parties trying to goad the other into the other into attacking first.

Emphasis added.

You're on the right track--but if the enemy doesn't follow you, they're surrendering the initiative, so you can do things like pelt them with missile weapons, or sneak in and sow caltrops wherever you want to, or sneak in and launch a fireball at their most concentrated point, or defeat them in detail, or even rest to regain spells and abilities before hitting them again. The key thing is that if the enemy can neither engage you effectively nor deny you the ability to engage them at will, all of the initiative is yours and they have to respond to your actions instead of the other way around. Player characters IME tend to be much better at that kind of warfare than vanilla 5E MM bag-of-HP monsters are, so in all probability the monsters are toast.

Deciding not to pursue a force with superior mobility and range is not a way to win, it's just a way to lose differently.

And yes, those kinds of fights are much, much more fun than straightforward over-in-three-rounds "I attack the ogre again" melee fights.

[GlenSmash!]

Emphasis added.

You're on the right track--but if the enemy doesn't follow you, they're surrendering the initiative, so you can do things like pelt them with missile weapons, or sneak in and sow caltrops wherever you want to, or sneak in and launch a fireball at their most concentrated point, or defeat them in detail, or even rest to regain spells and abilities before hitting them again. The key thing is that if the enemy can neither engage you effectively nor deny you the ability to engage them at will, all of the initiative is yours and they have to respond to your actions instead of the other way around. Player characters IME tend to be much better at that kind of warfare than vanilla 5E MM bag-of-HP monsters are, so in all probability the monsters are toast.

Deciding not to pursue a force with superior mobility and range is not a way to win, it's just a way to lose differently.

And yes, those kinds of fights are much, much more fun than straightforward over-in-three-rounds "I attack the ogre again" melee fights.

Good points. Sounds like I should stat up some nasty mobile Monsters :smallbiggrin:

[Tanarii]

Deciding not to pursue a force with superior mobility and range is not a way to win, it's just a way to lose differently.Like I said, some people seem to just play in wide open fields or plains. /sigh

[MaxWilson]

Good points. Sounds like I should stat up some nasty mobile Monsters :smallbiggrin:

Mobile, stealthy, ranged, tool-using, or some combination of the above. For example, even a slow (25' move) species could still be very dangerous to a mobile party if the slow species has excellent stealth and can do things like e.g. lock doors behind the PCs.

Of the MM monsters, mind flayers & intellect devourers, goblins and drow are among the best at Combat As War-type fighting. Although I also have a certain fondness for Darksun-style savage halflings riding dinosaurs.

[MaxWilson]

Like I said, some people seem to just play in wide open fields or plains. /sigh

For the record, when I wrote the post you were responding to, about ways to exploit the initiative once you've seized it, via stealth/caltrops/etc., I was imagining in my head a labyrinth scenario with lots of corners, tunnels, and doors[1]--because exploiting superior range and mobility in a wide open field is so easy that there's nothing to even talk about. Either enemies burrow underground, or you kill them and they're dead.

[1] BTW, Mobile Shadow Monks loooooove terrain like this. A party with both a Sharpshooter fighter and a Mobile Shadow Monk in it is prepared to dominate monsters in both close terrain and open terrain.

[Tanarii]

For the record, when I wrote the post you were responding to, about ways to exploit the initiative once you've seized it, via stealth/caltrops/etc., I was imagining in my head a labyrinth scenario with lots of corners, tunnels, and doors[1]--because exploiting superior range and mobility in a wide open field is so easy that there's nothing to even talk about. Either enemies burrow underground, or you kill them and they're dead.

[1] BTW, Mobile Shadow Monks loooooove terrain like this. A party with both a Sharpshooter fighter and a Mobile Shadow Monk in it is prepared to dominate monsters in both close terrain and open terrain.
Yeah my bad that was totally trollish and rude of me.

[Wisefool]

When playing a monk I always forget they have step of the wind as an option.

I do forget about this, but even when I remember, it is not used as the ki is more valuable for other tactics. That might change as I gain levels and ki.

I keep forgetting I can pick up stones, cast Light on them, and toss them to expand my vision in the dark. The rest of the party has darkvision, so my character usually blindly follows along.

[GlenSmash!]

Mobile, stealthy, ranged, tool-using, or some combination of the above. For example, even a slow (25' move) species could still be very dangerous to a mobile party if the slow species has excellent stealth and can do things like e.g. lock doors behind the PCs.

Of the MM monsters, mind flayers & intellect devourers, goblins and drow are among the best at Combat As War-type fighting. Although I also have a certain fondness for Darksun-style savage halflings riding dinosaurs.

I'm already terrified of Mind Flayers and Intellect Devourers. Int saves may not be common but they sure can suck.

[Theodoxus]

This is more a battle tactic I forgot to tell the party...

Last night, playing a new druid, I joined a party who was just starting the second chapter of LMoP in an AL game. They had planned on going to the Redbrands hideout, but the DMs prep was wiped out of her computer that morning, and all attempts to recover it were for naught. They instead went to take on the orc bounty, and found me meandering the Triboar trail enjoying the morning sun.

So, after introductions and deciding the motley crew weren't so bad, I joined them and we proceeded towards Wyvern Tor. On the way, 5 redbrands came running up from behind, demanding recompense for a previous altercation the party had had with them. The party ran forward to engage them. I sat back (seems to be a theme with me an AL teams) and when my turn came, I cast Fog Cloud, covering everyone (sans me) in fog.

The party decided to stay in the fog, instead of exiting, and the DM (who is relatively new) decided they'd have chances of striking friendlies since they couldn't see. The party slowly beat each other to pieces, though the redbrands were doing it to each other as well.

After a round, and no one coming out of the fog, I used Druidcraft to ignite a torch and shouted out "Hey morons, come to the light, fight the enemy on our ground."

Everyone eventually came out of the fog, and readied attacks for emerging redbrands. Once they actually understood the tactic, they wiped out the remaining resistance.

As proof of concept, we used the same tactic at the Tor, and came out of that fight with minimal damage done to us.