Lore Bard Character Creation

[Shumanfoo]

I'm working on a character for a unique campaign one of my friends is making. Having never played 5e, I've got a few questions to help guide my creation. There will be a party of 4 and I wanted to be the healer/support character. The other players are Fighter, Rogue, and Sorcerer. Rather than going straight Cleric (I planned out a few and just couldn't get something I was excited about), I realized that a lore Bard was probably more my thing. I would likely take Counterspell and Aura of Vitality at Bard6.

Rather than straight Bard, I was thinking I'd do 1st level as Life Cleric to pick up armor (med) and shield proficiency as well as healing improvement. By doing it at 1st level, I don't need to worry about a 13 Wis to multi-class into Cleric later. Going that way, I have 3 slightly different ideas. One of my main questions is about concentration. It seems like there are a lot of concentration spells, so how often will I have to make a check due to damage?

Our DM is having us take the standard stat distribution (15,14,13,12,10,8), so here are my thoughts:

Variant Human - Starts with 16,14,14 in Cha,Dex,Con and the Warcaster feat for concentration advantage but then less sure of feat/ASI progression after maxing Cha.

Half-Elf v1 - Starts with 16,16,14, in Cha, Con, Dex because I'm wearing med armor and only need +2 for AC then gain +1 Con for slightly better concentration as well as HP. Could pick up whatever feat I need after maxing Cha.

Half-Elf v2 - Starts with 16,16,14 in Cha, Dex, Con and later could take Med. Armor Master to get the full +3 AC, but has slightly weaker Con to start. Alternately, pick a different feat as needed.

We have a Rogue so I'm not sure if I need to be stealthy, but it could be an option down the road depending on how I start.

TLDR: How much do I worry about Concentration saves for the Lore Bard and should it affect my starting stat distribution? Alternately, do I just go straight Bard with Light Armor?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Rather than straight Bard, I was thinking I'd do 1st level as Life Cleric to pick up armor (med) and shield proficiency as well as healing improvement. By doing it at 1st level, I don't need to worry about a 13 Wis to multi-class into Cleric later.

Incorrect, I'm afraid. "To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one".

(This is among the myriad reasons I would advise junking multiclass requirements entirely.)

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Lore Bards rock but with the spell learning restrictions you have to plan well and it sounds like you are.

Stats....every 2 points is 5%. Blah. Just get a reasonable Charisma and maybe Dex.

Race, High elf gives a bonus Wizard cantrip in this version still? Pick something that gives damage.

Cleric dip....does going Cleric first limit what skills you get from Bard? That being good at everything rocks. You can always pick up a Heavy Armor Feat at Level 4 or with race selection if you love armor. My Lore Bard has low strength and high Dex and never wants to be in melee. Thats what Thunderwave is for.

Spells, Healing word! Ranged heals on a Bonus Action! Someone goes to 0 HP, stand them back up, you don't even need to run over and touch their bloody selves lol. Dissonant Whispers, Heat Metal, THUNDERWAVE, Shatter, Polymorph, Heck at Level 6 you can snipe Revivify and Counterspell with Magical Secrets!

There are feats like "Magic Initiate" to snipe more spells even if that saves you the delay of a dip.

[Shumanfoo]

Incorrect, I'm afraid. "To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one".

(This is among the myriad reasons I would advise junking multiclass requirements entirely.)

If I start as the Cleric class, then to multi-class into Bard I need Cha which I will have plenty of. As far as I know I can roll a Cleric with 12 Wis at lvl 1. Do I have that wrong?

Edit: I had that wrong, thanks to both who pointed that out.

[Specter]

You need both WIS and CHA at 13 to multiclass.

But your idea is solid: If you start as a Half-Elf, you can have 8/14/14/11/14/16 in stats. Feats will have to wait, but that's not unexpected and not absolutely necessary for level 1.

You should start as Cleric for the WIS save, which I think is more important than the DEX save you'd get from Bard. The proficiencies will be the same after you grab one Bard level. Go with a Breastplate for 16AC, and if you don't want to use a weapon, grab a shield too for 18 (remember you need a free hand to cast the Bard spells).

As for the level 6 Magical Secrets, I recommend Aura of Vitality and Counterspell, which will let you heal a lot out of combat and disrupt enemy casters, respectively.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I want to recommend Yuan-Ti Pureblood as an option here. +Cha, advantage on saves v spells, immunity to poison and a couple spells including a damage cantrip albeit a weaker one.

Celestial Warlock 2 gets you Eldritch Blast with +Cha to damage, additional bonus damage healing, a radiant damage cantrip that ignores cover, and two spell slots that refresh after a short rest. You'd also have an invocation slot you could use on at-will mage armor, at-will disguise self, improved darkvision or some minor battlefield control. If you're interested in a dip, that's not a bad one.

[Snivlem]

Is there any reason why you don't wanna utilize the heavy armor profiency of the life cleric?

[Shumanfoo]

Is there any reason why you don't wanna utilize the heavy armor profiency of the life cleric?

I won't have the Str so I'd lose movement. Maybe that's not so bad?

[Shumanfoo]

You need both WIS and CHA at 13 to multiclass.

But your idea is solid: If you start as a Half-Elf, you can have 8/14/14/11/14/16 in stats. Feats will have to wait, but that's not unexpected and not absolutely necessary for level 1.

You should start as Cleric for the WIS save, which I think is more important than the DEX save you'd get from Bard. The proficiencies will be the same after you grab one Bard level. Go with a Breastplate for 16AC, and if you don't want to use a weapon, grab a shield too for 18 (remember you need a free hand to cast the Bard spells).

As for the level 6 Magical Secrets, I recommend Aura of Vitality and Counterspell, which will let you heal a lot out of combat and disrupt enemy casters, respectively.

Thanks for the clarification on multi-class, I missed the "current class and" part of it. Since the DM is doing a standard stat spread instead of point buy, I don't see how I can get the 8/14/14/11/14/16 you suggest though I really like it. That said, I could start as 8/14/14/10/13/17 which allows the multi-class and then use first ASI to round out Wis and Cha.

Considering there are a lot of builds that don't worry about feats until later, I have to assume that concentration saves are manageable enough.

[Specter]

Thanks for the clarification on multi-class, I missed the "current class and" part of it. Since the DM is doing a standard stat spread instead of point buy, I don't see how I can get the 8/14/14/11/14/16 you suggest though I really like it. That said, I could start as 8/14/14/10/13/17 which allows the multi-class and then use first ASI to round out Wis and Cha.

Considering there are a lot of builds that don't worry about feats until later, I have to assume that concentration saves are manageable enough.

That's good too. At level 5, you can raise, and at level 9 grab a feat.
Also, heavy armor will not only slow you down, but also ruin your stealth, which is a shame.

But don't worry too much; these guidelines shouldbe enough to make you efficient.

[Contrast]

I won't have the Str so I'd lose movement. Maybe that's not so bad?

Technically the encumbrance rules are a variant rule - might be worth checking if your DM is actually using them. Using medium armour and a shield is fine too though (you probably won't even be able to afford plate for a while anyway).

That said if this is your first foray into 5E I feel obligated to recommend going single class first just to see how you like it before messing around with multiclassing.

[Aett_Thorn]

Technically the encumbrance rules are a variant rule - might be worth checking if your DM is actually using them. Using medium armour and a shield is fine too though (you probably won't even be able to afford plate for a while anyway).

That said if this is your first foray into 5E I feel obligated to recommend going single class first just to see how you like it before messing around with multiclassing.

Encumbrance might be a variant rule, but the Str requirements for Heavy Armors is not:


Heavy Armor. Heavier armor interferes with the wearer's ability to move quickly, stealthily, and freely. If the Armor table shows “Str 13” or “Str 15” in the Strength column for an armor type, the armor reduces the wearer's speed by 10 feet unless the wearer has a Strength score equal to or higher than the listed score.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Is there any reason why you don't wanna utilize the heavy armor profiency of the life cleric?

Bard's get lots of skills and if you have Dex you might want to be stealthy. Heavy armor clanks around against that and Dex helps AC anyways.

On a side note, I am away from my books. If you go Cleric first do you get fewer skill proficiencies? Does that matter?

[Talionis]

Not all Bards are stealthy... So you could go something like: 15,14,13,12,10,8 (Charisma, Dex, Strength, Wisdom, Constitution, Intelligence) with Variant Human Warcaster you could be 16, 14, 14, 13, 11, 8. Which isn't bad, considering you won't be front line and you can heal yourself. But you maybe almost as good dumping Strength and having better constitution... You can still use a shield and medium armor and get some benefit off your Dex for AC. So I actually do agree with your decision...

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Not all Bards are stealthy... So you could go something like: 15,14,13,12,10,8 (Charisma, Dex, Strength, Wisdom, Constitution, Intelligence) with Variant Human Warcaster you could be 16, 14, 14, 13, 11, 8. Which isn't bad, considering you won't be front line and you can heal yourself. But you maybe almost as good dumping Strength and having better constitution... You can still use a shield and medium armor and get some benefit off your Dex for AC. So I actually do agree with your decision...

I don't think Lore Bard gets much out of additional Str - it'd probably be my dump stat, even above Int.

[Specter]

If you want to go the STR route, you have to do it for the right reasons or you'll end up crippling yourself.
One of the right reasons would be going Valor Bard for a GWM/Invisibility build, for example. But from your layout, I don't imagine you want to attack a lot or be in the frontline either, so I say 18AC with a shield is jolly good. And if you ever want to deal more damage with weapon attacks (which I don't think you should), grab Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade as one of your Magical Secrets.

[Klorox]

I want to recommend Yuan-Ti Pureblood as an option here. +Cha, advantage on saves v spells, immunity to poison and a couple spells including a damage cantrip albeit a weaker one.

Celestial Warlock 2 gets you Eldritch Blast with +Cha to damage, additional bonus damage healing, a radiant damage cantrip that ignores cover, and two spell slots that refresh after a short rest. You'd also have an invocation slot you could use on at-will mage armor, at-will disguise self, improved darkvision or some minor battlefield control. If you're interested in a dip, that's not a bad one.

If we’re optimizing, the answer is almost always yuan-ti pureblood. They’re just so damn good.

That being said, I think a single class bard is fine. You should be able to avoid melee just as well as a wizard, but be better prepared for it.

My problem with multiclassing a bard is silly, but I want to pick Wish at level 18. I realize you’ll almost definitely now make it that far, which is why I said it’s silly.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

If we’re optimizing, the answer is almost always yuan-ti pureblood. They’re just so damn good.

That being said, I think a single class bard is fine. You should be able to avoid melee just as well as a wizard, but be better prepared for it.

My problem with multiclassing a bard is silly, but I want to pick Wish at level 18. I realize you’ll almost definitely now make it that far, which is why I said it’s silly.

I also think single class Bard is fine, especially if you have some damage cantrip. Bard spell focuses seem like they require two hands a lot of the time.

[Contrast]

I also think single class Bard is fine, especially if you have some damage cantrip. Bard spell focuses seem like they require two hands a lot of the time.

I've played with a bard before who was stymied when someone broke their instrument. Like all other casters, they should buy a component pouch even if they're intending to use a focus.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I've played with a bard before who was stymied when someone broke their instrument. Like all other casters, they should buy a component pouch even if they're intending to use a focus.

And it makes things a bit awkward if you intend to use a weapon.

[Protato]

I'd go Half-Elf with the cantrip in place of skills (I'd take Mage Hand, Mending, Message, or Minor Illusion, all utility but they're bound to be handy at some point, right?) or V-Human and put points in Chr and Wis. Dump Int and especially Str, have okay Dex, Con, and Wis, and pump Chr.

For feats, Magic Initiate is good. I'd take either Cleric/Druid for Guiding Bolt or Goodberry. Alternatively, use a Chr casting class and take Firebolt, Ray of Frost, or Eldritch Blast, a utility cantrip, and Chromatic Orb if Sorcerer, Cause Fear if Warlock, or Dissonant Whispers if Bard. War Magic is nice but if you're Lore, I'd say you don't need it. If you're set on medium armor, Medium Armor Master could be worth checking out, and of course there's Lucky.

[MrWesson22]

Quick point - Healing Spirit from Xanathar's Guide to Everything is strictly superior to Aura of Vitality.

[CTurbo]

I would NOT dip Cleric for a Bard. Have you considered Valor Bard for some extra toughness?

If you really want to stick with Lore Bard but still want added toughness, you could go Vhuman with Moderately Armored feat at level 1 for medium armor and shield proficiency.

If you REALLY want to be tough dip Paladin instead.

[Shumanfoo]

I would NOT dip Cleric for a Bard. Have you considered Valor Bard for some extra toughness?

If you really want to stick with Lore Bard but still want added toughness, you could go Vhuman with Moderately Armored feat at level 1 for medium armor and shield proficiency.

If you REALLY want to be tough dip Paladin instead.

I guess that's part of my question and why I've wondered about concentration. If I'm the heal/support/controller, I feel like I'll be a target and need to bear the brunt of some attacks.

[Specter]

I guess that's part of my question and why I've wondered about concentration. If I'm the heal/support/controller, I feel like I'll be a target and need to bear the brunt of some attacks.

Concentration at low levels is overrated.

Let's assume a goblin is attacking you with +4 to hit. With your 18AC, that's a 35% chance to hit. If he hits, then you have have to save against CON 10. With a +2 to CON, you have a 65% chance of making the save. Combining these probabilities, you'll see that you have a 22,75% chance of losing concentration every time you're attacked. Hardly worth writing home about.

But at higher levels, then yes, take Resilient (CON)/War Caster.

[Shumanfoo]

I've played with a bard before who was stymied when someone broke their instrument. Like all other casters, they should buy a component pouch even if they're intending to use a focus.

The campaign we're running doesn't have us anywhere we can buy stuff, so we're stuck with foci unless the DM plants a component pouch in the tower we're exploring.

I'm curious. How did the person go about breaking a Bard's instrument? Some form of grappled/strength check when in melee range of the Bard? Seems like a nasty idea against a focus user, hopefully given our campaign the DM doesn't try to pull that trick.

[pagnabros]

Deekin Scalesinger from NWN would be proud of you guys :smallcool:

[Specter]

If you take a level in life cleric, steal Goodberry and spam it with your remaining spell slots right before your long rest ends. Re: the focus, for bard spells you can do a whistle. Can create one with Prestidigitation too, though that takes your action.

Nope, you need a musical instrument.

[Aaron Underhand]

Currently playing a Lore Bard 5/Wizard 1...

Multiclassed at level 2 for role-playing reasons.

My experience is that the multiclass is really painful at levels 5, 6 and 7 - delaying 3rd level spells, short rest inspiration, and magical secrets.

However it is wonderful in giving you:
1 better defence (in my case shield spells),
2 a much greater range of spells available (with first level spells picked from another class you're free to use Bard picks on all those great 2nd level options)
3 some level of at will damage (cantrips from wizard, OK even with IQ of only 14).

One other note - my vHuman feat was Healer - in a six man party with 2 short rests a day this is equivalent to 18 Cure light Wounds spells, and frees up spell slots to be used for more interesting things, though I do keep healing word available for emergencies.

If I were min/maxing today my advice would be:


VHuman with Healer feat - Cha 16 (15+1) Dex 14 (13+1) and Wis 14, Con 13 (for resilient con later), Str 9 (for carrying), Int 8, though Int 10 Con 12 is an option


level 1 Arcana cleric with Firebolt, Shocking Grasp and Sacred flame (and light - you're human!)

Then Lore bard all the way.

You have medium armour and shield, you don't need a weapon in hand, and should never be in the front line. If you are then cast shocking grasp and run away! Con saves are only an issue if you get hit, keep out of the way!. Once you reach 9th you can take resilient Con - getting +1 and a larger proficiency bonus, at low levels it doesn't make enough difference - you still don't want to get hit!

Oh and I use a bugle for a casting focus - single handed musical instrument!

YMMV

[Chugger]

Healer feat is good. You can bonus action healing word one person and if you can touch another, heal them 1d6 + 4 + their lvl w/ the healing kit + feat. Or do both to one target for some bigger than normal healing.

The feat that gives team temp hit pts is good (Inspiring Leader?).

Magic Init is good - you can get find familiar and lots of useful cantrips, though firebolt would work off your int, which is not good. But a familiar pet can give advantage to one team mate once per round - which is less useful when you are lvl 5 and above - but very useful if party has a rogue who really needs to land his/her sneak attack and can't always hide. Or you can Magic Init warlock for Hex and Eldritch Blast - a cantrip - and have solid cantrip damage. With good dex you can use a crossbow, however.

The most common 1-dip for bard is warlock (or even hexblade, which of course is a lock) to get Eldritch Blast - many do a 2-dip to get invo to add cha to damage and something else - there are many good invos. Even a 1-dip in warlock is okay - if you want a good offensive cantrip.