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Vulkan
2018-03-27, 08:32 PM
Hey how does this sound for a campaign idea

A rich Baron/Baroness passes away with no direct immediate heirs to their estate. The players oddly enough are related and legally/conveniently are the closest living relatives.

Each player starts the game with a letter informing them about the deceased baron/baroness (no idea which way to go) and inside the letter a key on a necklace.

The letters are incredibly late on their arrival to the players and the estate is in ruins as what appears to be local thugs have made it their stomping grounds.

The players must make an incredibly long and dangerous journey across the land constantly choosing between safety or speed to make in the the estate and take it back from the those squatting on it before they figure out a way to open the family safe. Along the way they will find out family history and the interactions they had with the local nobility.

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-27, 08:44 PM
If the estate fell that quickly, I'd imagine that it wasn't so great to begin with. Which might be the point, as having loyal retainers isn't always the interesting option. It is certainly a interesting idea! What will compel the players to regain this barony, instead of grabbing one a bit less bandit-infested?

However, what is your stance on PvP? I think you might need to have that firmly established before someone decides to inherit on their own...

Vulkan
2018-03-27, 08:52 PM
I was assuming my group wouldn't pull any pvp crap.
I was going to start my players out extra dirt poor and crappy villages.
Might up it to a full fledged castle.
I'm also going to have the twist be having the place filled with cultist.

Coventry
2018-03-27, 11:07 PM
You will need to put restrictions on the characters created by your players, or you may end up with a VERY interesting family (for example, a Dwarf, a Drow, a Half-Orc, a Catfolk, and a Kobold - try explaining those genetics).

But I do not like bringing up problems without offering possible solutions, so here are the three variations I have come up with so far.

1: All the characters are orphans

While alive, the rich Baron/Baroness decided to fund an orphanage for abandoned or orphaned children of any race. Other nobles objected to the less savory types (the Half-orcs, the Kobold) and tried to convinced the King to expel the "undesirables". The Baron/Baroness got around that by legally adopting each and every child in their care.

Years went by. Some PCs grew up, left home, started their own lives. But the orphanage continued to server, and continued to irritate. The more vile of the other nobles finally dealt with the "problem" ... and are the reason why the Baron/Baroness are now dead.

The estate, got caught up in legal red tape. The magistrate liked the Baron/Baroness, and finally decided that the best way to irritate those vile nobles was to honor the adoptions as real.

That explains the delay in the letters going out, sets up multiple conflicting sides to use (some of the nobles that wanted the orphanage shut down were NOT involved in the deaths of the Baron/Baroness), gives three major adventuring sites (the magistrate's office, the manor house of the Baron/Baroness and the Orphanage - which the player characters should know). The down-side is that PC background is forced upon them.

2: Reincarnations for everyone!

Assuming the Baron/Baroness were Human, you can leave alone the Human, Half-elf and Half-orc characters. But to have a kobold as an heir? Well, if that character died and was brought back via Reincarnation, then it is possible. Need a Dwarf? Or a Catfolk? Same thing. Kill and reincarnate the PC in the back-story to get the other race.

Down-sides: This does not explain the delay in the letters reaching the PCs. Oh, and once again you have dictated at least part of the player character's backstory.

3: The player characters are not the heirs. Instead, they are protecting the heirs.

There are a couple of ways to play this. For example, the PC as hired to work with one of the real heirs. The work was good, and the pay was always on time ... but the letter and key that the heir just received has cast all that into doubt. "I have to go home. I don't know if you will get paid, but if you come with me, I will make sure that you get paid what you are owed."

Down-side: It's an escort quest. No one ever really likes those. True, that can be used to explain how the manor got ruined before everyone gets back home, which is an up-side. Also, the player characters will have no compelling reason to start PvP against each other, and the characters can have any weird mix of races and classes that the party can dream up.

TheStranger
2018-03-27, 11:54 PM
I'm having a little bit of trouble with the idea that the players are *all* the closest living relative, although the orphanage idea helps with that. But the thing about noble estates is that only one person gets to be the new Baron. I really don't have a good solution to that, unless the backstory is that the PCs are so close that they're going to insist on sharing the Barony rather than having one person inherit. Or you could go with a merchant estate, rather than a noble estate. That probably makes the most sense - "you're all co-owners of this house" doesn't raise the same problems as "you're all the new Baron."

Before you mentioned cultists, I had the idea that the "local thugs" occupying the place would turn out to be mercenaries hired by the Duke, who inherits the estate if the heirs don't take possession within a certain timeframe (say, a year after the death). You could drop other hints along the way that the players are being actively opposed (starting with the delay in getting the letters to the players at all). Then, once the players find out what's going on and claim the estate, an enemy of the Duke approaches them with a way to get even...

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-28, 10:35 AM
I was assuming my group wouldn't pull any pvp crap.
I was going to start my players out extra dirt poor and crappy villages.
Might up it to a full fledged castle.
I'm also going to have the twist be having the place filled with cultist.

This seems like an awful amount of work to clear out some crummy castle that's probably been sabotaged/ruined. What's stopping the players from simply taking over a less infested barony? If they have the ability to defeat cultists, they probably have the ability to kill/coerce a few nobles.


You will need to put restrictions on the characters created by your players, or you may end up with a VERY interesting family (for example, a Dwarf, a Drow, a Half-Orc, a Catfolk, and a Kobold - try explaining those genetics).

Oh, polymorphing grandma, what did you band THIS time? Through it would be hilarious if something just polymorphed a dozen noble heirs to disguise them. A bit like the Ozma of Oz.

But I do not like bringing up problems without offering possible solutions, so here are the three variations I have come up with so far.


3: The player characters are not the heirs. Instead, they are protecting the heirs.

There are a couple of ways to play this. For example, the PC as hired to work with one of the real heirs. The work was good, and the pay was always on time ... but the letter and key that the heir just received has cast all that into doubt. "I have to go home. I don't know if you will get paid, but if you come with me, I will make sure that you get paid what you are owed."

Down-side: It's an escort quest. No one ever really likes those. True, that can be used to explain how the manor got ruined before everyone gets back home, which is an up-side. Also, the player characters will have no compelling reason to start PvP against each other, and the characters can have any weird mix of races and classes that the party can dream up.

This could be handy for people who don't want to be the same race as the baron, or if people die and you need a new character. And players might hate escort quests, but they love leaders they can puppet from the shadows.

As for all being the next in line, I assumed it was due to poorly written laws or the king often exercising a right to skip a few heirs to get someone he liked. Could also be a system where the laws don't dictate who is next, but the current holder of the position chooses from a pool of candidates. Maybe they were all supposed to appear to present themselves and swear fealty to her choice before she kicked the bucket due to cultists.

Kaveman26
2018-03-28, 12:18 PM
When I read this idea here is what immediately popped into my head...

(I may actually end up tweaking and using this myself at some point)

Lord Barchester Winthrop Covington the 3rd of his name was widely regarded as eccentric by the other nobility and a stark raving lunatic by those more inclined to speak the truth. He was also absurdly wealthy a fact that meant his erratic nature was easily accepted and overlooked. Long told were the tales that he insisted his castle’s gargoyles wear pants. Less commonly told were the tales that he also insisted not all gargoyles simply be decorative.

A consistent fish pulled from the river of gossip was the Lord’s insistence that the Cherubs which ornamented his gardens were too soft and out of shape and the Lord was adamant that they be properly exercised to achieve a more masculine form. When his servants objected he forced them to carry the Cherub statues and run laps around the estate to “work them into shape”.

He acquired the most skilled druids his resources would allow to craft his hedge mazes and gardens. Such druids were often as stable as the Lord himself and the whispers of the gardens rearranging themselves and eliminating their own pests were rampant.

Three weeks past Covington passed from this world and left behind a legacy that would live on for decades in story form. He also left behind a staggering estate, extensive land holdings and a liquid wealth that was rumored to exceed entire kingdom’s treasuries. Unfortunately there was no heir living at the time of his demise. In true Covington fashion the Lord had written a will.

It came to light that in Barchester’s younger days he had visited an orphanage while still a soldier in the King’s army. He took a fondness for the kind men and women running this orphanage and even went so far as to filling out the first round of paperwork to adopt five of their foundlings. The army was forced to move on and Barchester found himself unable to return for some time. It was upon these adoption papers he fostered his will.

In it he left the entirety of his estate to the five orphans provided they complete a series of tests to ensure they were capable of running his estate properly. The crown itself took a great interest in the particulars of this will as certain sections required them to do so.

The Finer Points:

*If copies of the Will were not furnished to the five orphans within 30 days of his death then it was Barchester’s express wish that all his assets be delivered to the oldest living Judge in the kingdom. Should copies be provided to each of the five within the 30 day period a sum of 5,000,000 gold would be donated to the King and his court.

*If the stipulations provided to his heirs were not fulfilled by the end of the year then his entire estate would be dissolved and dispersed amongst the three highest ranking members of the nobility still alive at that time.


Feel like going the haunted estates route?

Maybe a scavenger hunt to open a vault with the deeds and codes to access his accounts

Bandits would certainly be employed by the lords with a vested interest in seeing them fail

Treasure Seekers a plenty would be drawn in the hopes that The wealth crackpot would have hidden caches throughout his property.

They are arriving late because it took the kingdom almost the full thirty days to find these orphans from years ago. Or perhaps they intentionally stalled as long as possible. Go nuts.

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-28, 12:27 PM
As a twist, maybe the estate is haunted, and the cult is trying to un-haunt the place. Especially if the Baroness had some questionable morality or grip on her sanity. But you can't get rid of a few poltergeists without a bit of murder and sacrifice, don't you know. Oh, hello sacrifices of the noble bloodline, could you please just lay on this altar and expose your chest? Brother Jimmy hasn't done this in a while...

Pronounceable
2018-03-28, 12:28 PM
I was assuming my group wouldn't pull any pvp crap
Yeah, that's never gonna not happen.

Also Welcome home, such as it is. This squalid hamlet, these corrupted lands, they are yours now, and you are bound to them.

Also also gramps was a dragon (the extent of whose tragic failings will be known in time) so don't worry about player races.

Koo Rehtorb
2018-03-28, 01:20 PM
Personally this sounds way more interesting to me as an intensely pvp focused game. A group of PCs who all have a valid legal claim on some estate and the game is about scheming to be the one to inherit it. Bonus points if there's some outside trouble that forces them into uneasy temporary alliances to deal with these other problems.

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-29, 11:55 AM
Personally this sounds way more interesting to me as an intensely pvp focused game. A group of PCs who all have a valid legal claim on some estate and the game is about scheming to be the one to inherit it. Bonus points if there's some outside trouble that forces them into uneasy temporary alliances to deal with these other problems.

This response alone makes me worried that the players will take the prompt the wrong way. They might assume that the set-up itself is intended to encourage PVP and that's what is expected of them. I mean, really, was there any period of time in history were nobles weren't trying to murder the everloving crap out of each other?

So yeah, please, please, PLEASE have a chat with your players on that. Maybe only a few of the same race are heirs, so they get targeted first by baddies, but have reasons not to kill each other. That'll mean that if anyone dies, you have a way to replace them.

Narmoth
2018-03-29, 02:42 PM
I think you should be very clear with the players that you don't want pvp.
Also, the will could state that all persons mentioned in the will have to be present together when claiming the inheritance

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-29, 05:11 PM
Also, the will could state that all persons mentioned in the will have to be present together when claiming the inheritance

I don't think that would work. NPCs could stop them from inheriting simply by focusing their efforts onto the squishiest member. Cultists might be willing to die in the process, and them NOT doing this would be strange. Also, the first time a PC dies, they might as well go full murder-hobo as they can't do anything with this place.

If you want certain behavior, I think you should just talk to your players. The fact that the OP doesn't think they'll immediately turns to it suggests that they are reasonable people, after all.

Vulkan
2018-03-31, 12:00 AM
Oh crap, sorry I was busy with work everyone I forgot about this thread. I'll get right onto replying

caden_varn
2018-03-31, 02:20 PM
Rather than have them all as heirs, maybe they came into possession of one of the letters somehow, and have decided to pretend to be the potential heir plus entourage for the very lucrative rewards. Even if the lands are crap, being landed gentry is no small thing.
That way they can intrigue and/or ally with the other NPC heirs to their hearts content - and the cultists can still be plotting as an extra faction.

Vulkan
2018-03-31, 03:36 PM
I'll get everyone elses post when I come home tonight


Kaveman's post


When I read this idea here is what immediately popped into my head...

(I may actually end up tweaking and using this myself at some point)

Lord Barchester Winthrop Covington the 3rd of his name was widely regarded as eccentric by the other nobility and a stark raving lunatic by those more inclined to speak the truth. He was also absurdly wealthy a fact that meant his erratic nature was easily accepted and overlooked. Long told were the tales that he insisted his castle’s gargoyles wear pants. Less commonly told were the tales that he also insisted not all gargoyles simply be decorative.

A consistent fish pulled from the river of gossip was the Lord’s insistence that the Cherubs which ornamented his gardens were too soft and out of shape and the Lord was adamant that they be properly exercised to achieve a more masculine form. When his servants objected he forced them to carry the Cherub statues and run laps around the estate to “work them into shape”.

He acquired the most skilled druids his resources would allow to craft his hedge mazes and gardens. Such druids were often as stable as the Lord himself and the whispers of the gardens rearranging themselves and eliminating their own pests were rampant.

Three weeks past Covington passed from this world and left behind a legacy that would live on for decades in story form. He also left behind a staggering estate, extensive land holdings and a liquid wealth that was rumored to exceed entire kingdom’s treasuries. Unfortunately there was no heir living at the time of his demise. In true Covington fashion the Lord had written a will.

It came to light that in Barchester’s younger days he had visited an orphanage while still a soldier in the King’s army. He took a fondness for the kind men and women running this orphanage and even went so far as to filling out the first round of paperwork to adopt five of their foundlings. The army was forced to move on and Barchester found himself unable to return for some time. It was upon these adoption papers he fostered his will.

In it he left the entirety of his estate to the five orphans provided they complete a series of tests to ensure they were capable of running his estate properly. The crown itself took a great interest in the particulars of this will as certain sections required them to do so.

The Finer Points:

*If copies of the Will were not furnished to the five orphans within 30 days of his death then it was Barchester’s express wish that all his assets be delivered to the oldest living Judge in the kingdom. Should copies be provided to each of the five within the 30 day period a sum of 5,000,000 gold would be donated to the King and his court.

*If the stipulations provided to his heirs were not fulfilled by the end of the year then his entire estate would be dissolved and dispersed amongst the three highest ranking members of the nobility still alive at that time.


Feel like going the haunted estates route?

Maybe a scavenger hunt to open a vault with the deeds and codes to access his accounts

Bandits would certainly be employed by the lords with a vested interest in seeing them fail

Treasure Seekers a plenty would be drawn in the hopes that The wealth crackpot would have hidden caches throughout his property.

They are arriving late because it took the kingdom almost the full thirty days to find these orphans from years ago. Or perhaps they intentionally stalled as long as possible. Go nuts.




This would make for a great Paladin campaign. But, I wanted to get kinda nitty gritty. I do really like what you've done with the idea and I probably will use the idea of another Baron gaining the estate under a certain amount of days to motivate the players into taking more dangerous and quicker routes to save time.
In the scenario this causes a TPK I'll PM you.


As a twist, maybe the estate is haunted, and the cult is trying to un-haunt the place. Especially if the Baroness had some questionable morality or grip on her sanity. But you can't get rid of a few poltergeists without a bit of murder and sacrifice, don't you know. Oh, hello sacrifices of the noble bloodline, could you please just lay on this altar and expose your chest? Brother Jimmy hasn't done this in a while...

I was going to screw with them with a bunch of horror on the way there, but this sounds fun too.



Yeah, that's never gonna not happen.

Also Welcome home, such as it is. This squalid hamlet, these corrupted lands, they are yours now, and you are bound to them.

Also also gramps was a dragon (the extent of whose tragic failings will be known in time) so don't worry about player races.

Not a terrible idea about unleashing all races.



Personally this sounds way more interesting to me as an intensely pvp focused game. A group of PCs who all have a valid legal claim on some estate and the game is about scheming to be the one to inherit it. Bonus points if there's some outside trouble that forces them into uneasy temporary alliances to deal with these other problems.
Maybe I'll run a version of it on it online later with that in mind.



This response alone makes me worried that the players will take the prompt the wrong way. They might assume that the set-up itself is intended to encourage PVP and that's what is expected of them. I mean, really, was there any period of time in history were nobles weren't trying to murder the everloving crap out of each other?

So yeah, please, please, PLEASE have a chat with your players on that. Maybe only a few of the same race are heirs, so they get targeted first by baddies, but have reasons not to kill each other. That'll mean that if anyone dies, you have a way to replace them.

I was thinking the rule for race had to be "Human must be part of it and your character had to be born 20 years ago" the actual legitimate heir was a Bard who traveled the lands and making songs and bastards, however its believed he's dead due to no scrying spell can detect him, not even his corpse.


I think you should be very clear with the players that you don't want pvp.
Also, the will could state that all persons mentioned in the will have to be present together when claiming the inheritance

I like that but what if a party member dies? Well, there could be a scrying ritual or the keys could be magical and go and seek out the next player.



I don't think that would work. NPCs could stop them from inheriting simply by focusing their efforts onto the squishiest member. Cultists might be willing to die in the process, and them NOT doing this would be strange. Also, the first time a PC dies, they might as well go full murder-hobo as they can't do anything with this place.

If you want certain behavior, I think you should just talk to your players. The fact that the OP doesn't think they'll immediately turns to it suggests that they are reasonable people, after all.

What I could do is also is have all characters roll seeds so they're established with one another and have less reason to kill each other. Let's face it you're not going to kill your old friend Tim... Especially when he's your cousin's crush (Especially when your cousin is traveling with you.)
But that can cause some randomly generated chaos..


Rather than have them all as heirs, maybe they came into possession of one of the letters somehow, and have decided to pretend to be the potential heir plus entourage for the very lucrative rewards. Even if the lands are crap, being landed gentry is no small thing.
That way they can intrigue and/or ally with the other NPC heirs to their hearts content - and the cultists can still be plotting as an extra faction.

Yeah, and upgrade it to a fort of an estate.
Call it Fort Nevermore but when they get there have a plot twist of it being a typo and common misunderstanding of the title
It's actually called "Fort Never Mourn"

Beneath
2018-03-31, 03:40 PM
One thing that might help quell PvP is if the barony is subject to Gavelkind (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavelkind), or election, or something. Though with a barony, Gavelkind succession would bring things down very small indeed, and there's still room for PvP if someone decides they'd rather have the other heirs as vassals rather than peers.

Otherwise, I'd make the legitimate heir an NPC (maybe a child, to emphasize their dependence on the PCs for everything, including leadership) and the PCs the heir's retainers. "You're all in line to inherit a barony" is exactly the kind of thing people kill to establish a pecking order for, or make the heir a PC that the rest of the party are fine with giving special stuff to (this especially works if, like, the heir's thing about being automatically a legitimate presence among the nobility is just one person's thing). Getting the players to agree OOC to something that every IC pressure works against will be difficult to maintain.

As for the common "why not kick over a less monster-infested barony" question in this thread, if you do that, you're upstarts who are threatening the entire system of land tenure by which every other noble holds their land without having to constantly prove that their family has the best swordsmen around. If you take over the place you have a claim to, you're part of that system. Not to mention, like, a healthy barony will have soldiers and knights defending it as firmly as bandits in your claim, if not moreso, even before they get support from outside.

This is a campaign arc I've considered for myself but never really developed. It is very Darkest Dungeon (as Pronounceable said); I was actually thinking I'd play that up and put a large dungeon on the fief itself that's the PCs' main problem.

If you go the "it's taken over by thugs and/or cultists" angle, or anything with organized people as the enemy, I'd recommend working out who these people are and what they want, simply because not doing that and making them simply a tactical challenge to kill is a missed opportunity. Soldiers from the neighboring county looting the place for their lord, out of work mercenaries plundering the land, a defeated army from the last succession war who've decided to set themselves up as bandits rather than go home, vikings from the far coast, highland cattle-raiders, and peasant rebels who've seized the castle are all different stories. Likewise with cultists; what they follow, what they hope to get out of that, why this castle, what their problem is with mainstream religion, and why they want it enough to do what they're doing are important questions to ask.

Also the neighbors' reactions are important. A noble is not a noble without peasants to actually work their land; how do the peasants feel about the takeover? What are they doing in response? A baron isn't a baron unless they have a liege (who wants the taxes from the barony, and who, if not sovereign, has their own liege they have to pay those taxes on to. They also might like the situation with an absent heir, since that gives them all they need to return the Barony to their own personal estates), and of course the next baron over isn't going to want to leave an open power vacuum on their border for long, whether they want to claim it for themself or just not have people coming onto their fief preaching heresy.

All of that is just the automatic stuff, the structural responses to this situation that feudalism demands happen, even if you don't go with something complicated with murder and an orphanage and adoptions and a friendly magistrate. If you do, that'll complicate this further.

That's not to call any of this busywork. These are all, like, gameable factions the players can use and play against each other to secure their position.

Honest Tiefling
2018-03-31, 05:38 PM
What I could do is also is have all characters roll seeds so they're established with one another and have less reason to kill each other. Let's face it you're not going to kill your old friend Tim... Especially when he's your cousin's crush (Especially when your cousin is traveling with you.)

Player are like cats, they can neither be trained nor herded. I suggest giving some sort of carrot to help in this, such as tying an inspiration die to it or handing out heirloom gear tied to their backstory. No one like being told 'CARE ABOUT THIS PERSON' in any medium, but players do love them some loot.

Also, what is the plan if someone dies? Characters, I mean. You don't have a good way to tie them to the plot


I was thinking the rule for race had to be "Human must be part of it and your character had to be born 20 years ago" the actual legitimate heir was a Bard who traveled the lands and making songs and bastards, however its believed he's dead due to no scrying spell can detect him, not even his corpse.

As a side note, I'd find it hilarious and fitting if a bunch of people from every possible human ethnicity shows up. After all, players are notorious for showing up with wildly different concepts.

goto124
2018-04-01, 03:34 AM
As a side note, I'd find it hilarious and fitting if a bunch of people from every possible human ethnicity shows up. After all, players are notorious for showing up with wildly different concepts.

Remember Fredrick Anderson's "The Bard's Tail"? :smallamused:

Honest Tiefling
2018-04-01, 06:51 PM
Remember Fredrick Anderson's "The Bard's Tail"? :smallamused:

That's why dragonborn (depending on edition), tieflings, genasi, feytouched, etc. should all be considered. It'll be hilarious at later stages of the game where the human nobles have to interact with those...THINGS. Especially if those things are more beautiful, graceful, and good looking then they are.

Narmoth
2018-04-04, 07:01 PM
I like that but what if a party member dies? Well, there could be a scrying ritual or the keys could be magical and go and seek out the next player.

Well, even more incentive not to die. Or they could have to pay for a resurrection spell.


I don't think that would work. NPCs could stop them from inheriting simply by focusing their efforts onto the squishiest member. Cultists might be willing to die in the process, and them NOT doing this would be strange. Also, the first time a PC dies, they might as well go full murder-hobo as they can't do anything with this place.

I think that would change the dynamics of the game, actually making players try even harder on not getting killed, which isn't bad. Again, it depends a lot on the game style. In the games I run, pc deaths are rare, but then again, they are very story focused games

Admin010
2018-04-09, 05:54 AM
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