What classes or subclasses would you like to see pop up in 5ed?

[T0kumei]

For me I wouldn't mind seeing the Shaman pop up in 5th I loved my old one from 4th edition. Also Mearls did stats in a AMA thread on reddit he would like to do a primal caster with spirit themed magic which screams shammy. Also I would like to see a well done/balanced version of the mystic I have nothing against psionics I loved the battlemind in 4th. But it really needs more work.

[MrStabby]

Most new content if well balanced is good. I would be happy with most things. I wouldn't mind a divine themed rogue subclass/ class I suppose.

The only thing I would really want to avoid is a warlord. Nothing sucks the fun out of the game like someone else playing your character for you. Too late for the bard though.

[mephnick]

The only thing I think is missing is a divine 1/3rd caster (like PF's Inquisitor) and an Arcane 1/2 caster. After that they can stop. There's enough player options already.

They don't even really need those. You can make them well enough with multi-classing.

[Eric Diaz]

Warlord.

But TBH a few extra battlemaster maneuvers would be enough for that IMO. Just give some battlemaster tricks that use Int or more things like inspiring leader - which has nothing to do with playing someone ele's character BTW.

[M Placeholder]

The Psion. The stuff in UA was a good start and the class was fun to play, and I would love it to be official.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'd be down with an Arcane 1/2 caster and the psionics rules - specifically, the Wilder. One of my favorite 3.5e characters was a wilder, and I miss the class.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Not many classes I think need to be added maybe 4.
-psionics class
-artificer
-Int based half caster

The last is something up in the air. I wouldn’t mind seeing a new martial class. Or a new pact magic user.

I really like some of the homebrew on a Witch class or Binder class. I’d like to see a return of meldshaping but maybe not a class but a bunch of subclasses. Oh runecaster/scribe/priest. I want to use runes. Give me that.

And as far as subclasses I’d love to see

1/3 Divine caster rogue, an elemental patron,
Fiendish barbarian,
elemental barbarian (storm herald just didn’t cut it) ,
a walker in the waste/blight/necro Druid (Spore and twilight in the right direction tho),
a much better necro patron, more pact boons and invocations with different cantrips,
dragon patron,
Dragon barbarian
Dragon cleric
Dragon Druid
Dragon Bard
Dragoon fighter
Dragon monk
Necro Bard

A lot of these I’m surprise aren’t already feathered in UA.(seriously dragon is in the title but we only have 1 subclass for it. )

[LtPowers]

Need a divine bard subclass. College of Hymns.


Powers &8^]

[solidork]

I want the oft fabled Arcane Half Caster and a Fey Sorcerer.

[MrStabby]

Need a divine bard subclass. College of Hymns.


Powers &8^]

Actually this could be pretty awesome as a concept. Not sure it would be a perfect fit as a bard due to the spell list.

[Naanomi]

Classes? Psion, maybe Artificdr, nothing else springs to mind

Subclasses:
~More Cleric Domains... (Law/Justice, Civilization/Trade, Pain/Suffering, Travel... maybe a few other ‘evil’ options)
~Death/Decay focused Druid
~Djinn pact Warlock, Shaman (as Nature Spirit pact Warlock), ~Alchemist Wizard (only if Artificer doesn’t appear formally),

I could envision a few more Barbarian totem options as well

[Legendairy]

Artificer for me and a brush up on the mystic/psions

Subclasses hmm:
Dirge Bard and divine bard
Blighter type Druid
Old runic style casters like runescarred berserkers and such I also love the flavor of core frenzied barb just think they need to retool it a bit.

[zinycor]

Psions, mostly because they are needed for dark sun.

[2D8HP]

The "Scout" from The Complete
Adventurer 3.5 "splat book"....

.... oh wait there's now a Rogue subclass in Xanathar's Guide called "Scout".

So I'm good.

[Naanomi]

Psions, mostly because they are needed for dark sun.
Setting specific defiler/preserver subclasses may be in order, as well as clarifying Templars and Elemental Cleric domains

[KOLE]

Not many classes I think need to be added maybe 4.
-psionics class
-artificer
-Int based half caster )

Arcane trickster not do it for ta?

[Mortis_Elrod]

Arcane trickster not do it for ta?

That’s like none of what I listed. And Arcane trickster is great. But it’s not Divine. And wouldn’t make sense unless you changed the mage hand stuff and basically just made a Divine 1/3 caster subclass.

[Jama7301]

I wonder if there's a spot for something like the Warden from 4th edition. It's been a long time, but I remembered liking what I read of it all those years ago.

[T0kumei]

I wonder if there's a spot for something like the Warden from 4th edition. It's been a long time, but I remembered liking what I read of it all those years ago.

I loved the warden in 4th but the Oath of Ancients covers it's theme very well.

[Arkhios]

Obviously Warlord, as I really don't think Battle Master is quite enough. BM certainly has great maneuvers for that purpose but to me, it's lacking much of what else Warlord used to be in 4th edition: a martial healer – character capable of providing reliable and frequent "healing" without magic. I know that regaining hit points worked very differently back in 4th than it does now in 5th (or in 3.5 and before).

I just don't think that a mere sub-class for fighter cuts it. Thus, I ended up homebrewing a warlord of my own a few years ago. Until an official version is out, I'll keep using that. When (or if) it becomes official class, I'll reconsider.

[Akolyte01]

Something Int based. So I'd also throw support behind a warlord type class. Martial support

[Naanomi]

Most classes have four or more subclasses available now... what are people who want Warlord as a base class looking at for subclass options?

[Quoxis]

Most classes have four or more subclasses available now... what are people who want Warlord as a base class looking at for subclass options?

Heallord, Intellilord, Divinelord according to this thread.

[Naanomi]

Heallord, Intellilord, Divinelord according to this thread.
Um... ok. So a 1/3 divine caster, a healer/temporary HP provider (which is a lot of what Divine casting would mechanically provide, but just a different fluff) and... what mechanically is an ‘intellilord’ doing that other Warlords are not? Or is it the ‘champion of warlords’, just boosting what they already do?

[Coffee_Dragon]

Edgelord, pooplord, fnordlord.

[Naanomi]

I guess...

One that optimized Healing/Temp HP (which is probably something base Warlords have, but this would so it better)

One that focuses on mobility, perhaps with a focus on ‘mass combat’/able to affect lots of people at once

A debuffing/sabotage the enemy type, able to use whatever resource Warlords use to buff their own to instead hinder foes

One with a bit more combat skill, ‘leading from the front’ inspiration type... a valor bard of Warlords. Maybe some auras

[Waazraath]

I'd love to see an effort made for the 3.5 classes Binder and the different Martial Adepts; won't happen probably, cause parts of them have been canibalized into other classes.

I really miss a dedicated grappler; it's one of the few concepts that is hard to create in fifth, imo. Could do with its own subclass (probably monk or fighter).

[Quoxis]

I say bring back the weirdness. I‘ve never played 3.5/pathfinder/anything but 5e, but i‘ve read up on prestige classes and other stuff from back in the day, and let me tell you: i‘d like to see characters donning the skin of a demon, wizards with pustules casting sickening or poison magic, ooze-sorcerers that secrete acid and slime, characters that can dissolve into swarms of insects, that kind of stuff.

[Naanomi]

I loved 3.5 Binders but I’m not sure they can really be implemented mechanically in a more simple system like 5e. We could capture some of the flavor as a Warlock patron, but the unique mechanics would be... challenging or impossible to implement while capturing that same feel

[ZorroGames]

A class that uses IN as its base and isn’t a wizard?

No, I have not thought out just what that is yet. :smallsmile:

[Spiritchaser]

Arcane half caster, BUT: with hexblade bladelocks it’s not such a big deal now. I’d still like one but the right warlock with maybe a little fighter gets most of what I’d want.

Psionics... BUT: it really depends what they make of them. I can easily see greatness or drudgery coming from the rules we have so far.

A martial archetype that is truly well suited to building Oberyn Martell. Dex>Con or Dex>Cha>Con, Light armor. Reach polearm melee weapon. Great mobility, Poison.

[Eric Diaz]

A martial archetype that is truly well suited to building Oberyn Martell. Dex>Con or Dex>Cha>Con, Light armor. Reach polearm melee weapon. Great mobility, Poison.

Yeah, me too. So far we can only MC maybe rogue with 1 level of monk... Still not optimal since he cannot sneak attack with spear. Maybe fighter (battlemaster) + monk 1.

[Crgaston]

A martial archetype that is truly well suited to building Oberyn Martell. Dex>Con or Dex>Cha>Con, Light armor. Reach polearm melee weapon. Great mobility, Poison.

I’m with you on this. I think it could be mostly accomplished by simply adding Finesse spear.

One thing I’d really love to see would be a Fey Sorcerous Origin.

[ToastyTobasco]

Malconvoker. All the summoning may have been a headache for some DM's but the flavor of the summoner cleric/Malconvoker bargaining with angels and demons to crush their enemies was just plain awesome.

[AvvyR]

For me I wouldn't mind seeing the Shaman pop up in 5th I loved my old one from 4th edition. Also Mearls did stats in a AMA thread on reddit he would like to do a primal caster with spirit themed magic which screams shammy. Also I would like to see a well done/balanced version of the mystic I have nothing against psionics I loved the battlemind in 4th. But it really needs more work.

Circle of the Shepherd Druid really close to 4e Shaman, with summoning all the nature spirits that provide buffs/debuffs to those nearby. Combine with Healing Spirit spell, and flavor your summoning spells to appear spectral and you've essentially got it.

[Kane0]

I want to see some really wierd stuff. Along the lines of how 3.5 deviated from the fantasy norm with binders, incarnum, etc.
If we want a slight variation of a common fantasy concept we can cover that with MCing, feats and light homebrew. I want to see unique content that really expands on wha we have already.

[Talionis]

Chameleon, Binder, Master of Masks, Master Thrower, and Factotem.

[Quoxis]

Chameleon, Binder, Master of Masks, Master Thrower, and Factotem.

YEEES, how didn’t i see it earlier? We need a subclass of fighter or whatever that specializes in throwing weapons, circumventing the „reload“ of throwing axes that prevents more than 1-3 throws.

[SociopathFriend]

Do you mean previously existing classes/subclasses or something new we wish we would see?

I personally would love something like a gravity-monk. A martial artist who bends physics to truly achieve the impossible. Stuff like running on the ceiling, grounding yourself with increased potency to make yourself harder to move, pulling the staff just slightly out-of-reach into his hands to continue fighting, or maybe hitting someone and changing how gravity affects specifically them.

If nothing else it's something I might try to homebrew in the future.

[Jerrykhor]

A standalone Alchemist class. I always believed this fantasy archetype is strong enough to be its own class, rather than a subclass of Artificer or Wizard. I wouldn't remove the Wizard subclass version, because there is a big difference in a Wizard who dabbles in alchemy, and a guy who is all about alchemy, no magic powers or spells. But of course, I suspect Wotc might be very reluctant in defining their crafting rules.

Also, preferably not carrying over the UA artificer dumb arbitrary rules, like having the vial and its contents magically disappear if you don't hurl it at the end of your turn. That was dumb.

[Blood of Gaea]

In addition to a Psionic class, I would like to see a 1/3 Psionic equivalent subclass for a martial class or two. Divine could be interesting as well.

[A Fat Dragon]

Dragon Bard

That’s an interesting concept. Never thought of something like that before, but that could really be interesting. Mind if I ask you what you would think this would be? Might try and homebrew something like this, sometime, as a fun project (With your permission, of course).

[prototype00]

Do you mean previously existing classes/subclasses or something new we wish we would see?

I personally would love something like a gravity-monk. A martial artist who bends physics to truly achieve the impossible. Stuff like running on the ceiling, grounding yourself with increased potency to make yourself harder to move, pulling the staff just slightly out-of-reach into his hands to continue fighting, or maybe hitting someone and changing how gravity affects specifically them.

If nothing else it's something I might try to homebrew in the future.

Yeah! The Zerth Cenobite! Good chance we get it out of Mordenkainen’s book of foes.

[Dualswinger]

Dragonfire adept. Either as a stand-alone class or as a warlock patron given how similar it was to warlock back in 3.5.

A scaling at will breath weapon is a personal fantasy of mine.

[Spiritchaser]

I’m with you on this. I think it could be mostly accomplished by simply adding Finesse spear.

One thing I’d really love to see would be a Fey Sorcerous Origin.

I think it’d have to be a finesse glaive/polearm.

For some reason spears don’t have reach in 5e.

I actually had to home brew a fey origin once, and I think I asked around here for suggestions too...

All the PHB warlock patrons could make really good sorcerous origins.

[Nifft]

- Oozemaster
- Totemist
- Binder
- Incarnate
- Warlord / Warblade
- Spellthief
- Dragonfire Adept
- Chameleon
- Jaunter
- Alienist
- Fleshwarper
- Elemental Scion of Zilargo
- Master Inquisitive
- Recaster
- Renegade Mastermaker
- Sand Shaper
- Shadowsmith
- Spellwarp Sniper
- Suel Arcanamach
- Tattooed Monk
- Walker in the Waste

[Dudewithknives]

Duelist, preferably for fighter.

Gunslinger base class.

I would be happy with just the duelist, gunslinger is just kind of neat.

[GreyBlack]

I want a class that is more focused on creating stuff to fight with or fight for it.

What I'm envisioning is a character who can create various things to fight with in a given battle; maybe they're creating medieval style bombs to throw at the enemy, or maybe they're creating improvements for their weapons, or maybe even making a clockwork pet to fight for them. This kind of character is entirely predicated on creating magical-type effects from mundane materials.

[AthasianWarlock]

Psion
Sorcerer king pact warlock
ur priest


I would also like to see some kind of feat specific to warlocks that let them take two pacts like they had in 4e. Maybe make it warlock specific and you need to be high level, or maybe an invocation that can let you switch them out. Or even maybe just gaining one minor effect from the pact.

[tomato]

*Ctrl-F* Avenger

0/0 results found.

SMH...

That's a crime. The avenger was an awesome class!

[Millstone85]

I would also like to see some kind of feat specific to warlocks that let them take two pacts like they had in 4e. Maybe make it warlock specific and you need to be high level, or maybe an invocation that can let you switch them out. Or even maybe just gaining one minor effect from the pact.In 5e, would you apply that to patrons or boons?

[Vogie]

I'd like to see a pair of minion-mancers of some variety. One for temp summoning, the other for having multiple permanent minions.

So, something like the Pathfinder druid, and Summoner.

An int-based artificer/alchemist


I would also like to see some kind of feat specific to warlocks that let them take two pacts like they had in 4e. Maybe make it warlock specific and you need to be high level, or maybe an invocation that can let you switch them out. Or even maybe just gaining one minor effect from the pact.

I think they'd make a Patron that creates a fourth Pact boon (like Seeker did), and also allows the warlock to choose a second pact boon at 10, a la the champion fighter.

[SociopathFriend]

Yeah! The Zerth Cenobite! Good chance we get it out of Mordenkainen’s book of foes.

You had my curiosity- now you have my attention. What is that and what does it do?

[Arkhios]

*Ctrl-F* Avenger

0/0 results found.


That's... not entirely true.

Paladin Oath of Vengeance is pretty darn close to an Avenger, despite that Paladins tend to wear heavy armor (instead of running around bare-naked).

They even get Vow of Enmity, which does almost exactly the same thing as Oath of Enmity does for 4e Avenger.

Oath of Enmity: An encounter power (=class "feature" that is usable once per encounter unless mentioned otherwise) which effect lasts until the end of the encounter or until the target drops to 0 hp.

Vow of Enmity: A channel divinity once per short rest for a paladin, and lasts 1 minute or until the target drops to 0 hp. Basically the same as lasting until the end of an encounter, because if an encounter lasts longer than 1 minute, you're probably screwed anyway. Also, 1/short rest is 5e equivalent to 4e 1/encounter, even though there may be more encounters before your next short rest.

Both let you make the attack roll twice and take the better result. The big difference is that in 5e that effect is enabled by advantage, while in 4e advantage was handled a bit differently.

[Esprit15]

Chameleon, Binder, Master of Masks, Master Thrower, and Factotem.

Factotum basically exists in College of Lore Bard.

More dual casters. We got the divine wizard as basically a Mystic Theurge. What about an Arcane Heirophant?

[Angelalex242]

Oath of Bahamut:

A paladin oath designed for (metallic) Dragon Riding Paladins.

[prototype00]

You had my curiosity- now you have my attention. What is that and what does it do?

Oh, the Githzerai live in Limbo where up, down, near and far are subjective. In their Monastery fortresses, they learned to manipulate space and time to their advantage in their martial arts (pre Matrix Matrix Kung Fu).

Since they are a reasonably reasonable folk, they also train others if you manage to survive the trip to their monasteries.

Edit: More time related abilities, it seems.

[the_brazenburn]

Personally, I'd like to take the Shaman in an entirely different direction from the 4e one: as a melee-focused druid subclass with Spirit Aspects similar to a Totem Druid's.

Spore Druid was definitely a step in the right direction by offering alternative uses for Wild Shape. Let's see a few more of those.

[JakOfAllTirades]

They've been mentioned above but I'll reiterate:

I'd love to see the Binder return, if it could be implemented it 5E. I'm not sure that it can.

I am sure that a Master Thrower could be implemented, and I'm disappointed we don't have one already.

[Naanomi]

Master thrower seems like something that a Feat could create, without needing a subclass

[Vogie]

Master thrower seems like something that a Feat could create, without needing a subclass

Or maybe even an available fighting style, so a one-level fighter dip will give you access.

[LtPowers]

More dual casters. We got the divine wizard as basically a Mystic Theurge. What about an Arcane Heirophant?

Arcana domain.


Powers &8^]

[Nifft]

Arcana domain.

Arcane Hierophant is a Druid PrC, not a Cleric one.

[Arkhios]

Arcane Hierophant is a Druid PrC, not a Cleric one.

I don't think they meant that Arcane Domain would be Arcane Hierophant's equivalent. To me, it seems LtPowers only added one more dual caster to the list.

As for Arcane Hierophant, personally I think it would make most sense as yet another Arcane Tradition, because it's always the wizards who seek to expand their area of expertise, while druids are pretty much content with their own stuff, not much interested in forming circles to delve into mysteries other than druidic. So, if Arcane Hierophant would actually end up created in 5th edition, my money would be on Wizard sub-class.

[Jama7301]

What about a Stance Fighter or Monk? Something that can get flexibility out of a single weapon type, instead of needing to rely on Fighting Styles that can require different weapon loadouts. Might be too niche for a full subclass though.

[Willie the Duck]

I think people have mentioned the mechanical holes of 1/2 arcane caster and 1/3 divine. Thematically, yes, there are enough people that want psionics and artificers to become fully 'official.' Most other 3e Prestige classes and the like can probably be handled by fluff.

I, for one, do not need a whole bunch of archetypes to fill niches. It would take a really strange theme for me to say I couldn't do it with the existing classes and archtypes. One that I think would basically require completely refluffing a current thing, though, would be an Ur Priest. Now, devoid of the cheeze moniker it had in 3e, I think it is an interesting concept, but have no idea how to capture it within existing architecture.

[emduck]

- INT-based divine caster

- Arcane half-caster, divine third-caster, INT-based half-caster to round things out

- Psionics and binding

- I have extreme ToB withdrawal still--I'd love to see a more fleshed-out maneuver system, either with new subclasses for the fighter and monk or with a new base class with different flavored subclasses

[Akolyte01]

Most classes have four or more subclasses available now... what are people who want Warlord as a base class looking at for subclass options?

Commander - focused on giving combat buffs to allies and debuffs to enemies via 'callout' or 'command' actions (similar to battlemasters maneuvers)
[need a name] - focused on healing allies by leading from front lines (ability to heal allies based on damage done in a round, etc)
Tactician - focused more on out of combat strengths, as well as picking "tactics" that give powerful bonuses if certain conditions are met in combat (rewarding planning engagements with enemies. Bonuses to acting before enemies, etc)

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Int- and/or Wis-based mundanes. Int- or Wis-based Bards decoupled from the performance abilities (Countersong, Inspiration) to resemble a 3.5 Factotum.

[emduck]

Int- and/or Wis-based mundanes. Int- or Wis-based Bards decoupled from the performance abilities (Countersong, Inspiration) to resemble a 3.5 Factotum.

This maybe falls outside of classes, but I'd love there to be more reasons to have a decent INT. I generally don't like to dump mental stats unless it's for a character reason, but with the standard 27 pb I often feel like I'm doing myself a disservice by taking INT to 12 or even 10. I'd love more mundane classes or subclasses that use INT for things, so I don't feel like I'm making an objectively bad decision by not dumping it.

[FabulousFizban]

Warlord.

But TBH a few extra battlemaster maneuvers would be enough for that IMO. Just give some battlemaster tricks that use Int or more things like inspiring leader - which has nothing to do with playing someone ele's character BTW.

I was able to multiclass a sort of warlord by making a wolf totem battle-master, so the possibility is there, but having a class focused on it would be nice. Maybe something that combines wolf totem's advantage with the battle-master's combat maneuvers and the ability to cast some debuffs like faerie fire or bane.

Hmm... debuff concentration spells while granting advantage to allies against enemies adjacent to the warlord, with the option of adding a maneuver to your allies attack if you forego your own attack...
give it thorn whip cantrip.

[Vogie]

Int- and/or Wis-based mundanes. Int- or Wis-based Bards decoupled from the performance abilities (Countersong, Inspiration) to resemble a 3.5 Factotum.

Man, that would've been great if they had Lore Bards be Int based rather than Cha based, with Additional Magical Secrets actually replacing Countercharm instead of sticking around

[Willie the Duck]

I was able to multiclass a sort of warlord by making a wolf totem battle-master, so the possibility is there, but having a class focused on it would be nice. Maybe something that combines wolf totem's advantage with the battle-master's combat maneuvers and the ability to cast some debuffs like faerie fire or bane.

If you combine all the trip/stymie/damage mitigation/movement control maneuvers, feats, and powers from all the martials, you can cobble together a warlord pretty nice warlord. It'd just be nice not to have to.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Man, that would've been great if they had Lore Bards be Int based rather than Cha based, with Additional Magical Secrets actually replacing Countercharm instead of sticking around

I am actually working on rebuilding the Lore Bard to do this, and to get rid of all the other performance-related stuff. ...Still gotta pitch it to my DM though.

[Akolyte01]

This maybe falls outside of classes, but I'd love there to be more reasons to have a decent INT. I generally don't like to dump mental stats unless it's for a character reason, but with the standard 27 pb I often feel like I'm doing myself a disservice by taking INT to 12 or even 10. I'd love more mundane classes or subclasses that use INT for things, so I don't feel like I'm making an objectively bad decision by not dumping it.

The only thing I can think would be to rebalance the number of skill proficiencies a class gets, modified by their int bonus. But that has its own problems. Does getting a magic bonus to int suddenly make you better at swimming (via athletics)

[Jama7301]

The only thing I can think would be to rebalance the number of skill proficiencies a class gets, modified by their int bonus. But that has its own problems. Does getting a magic bonus to int suddenly make you better at swimming (via athletics)

I think decoupling Int from number of skills was the right choice. How smart someone is shouldn't lead to them being more stealthy, perceptive, or agile than someone who isn't as smart.

[Kane0]

At most no more than 3-4 new base classes, too many will dilute the core 12 and really ratchet up the power creep as well as muddy the waters in terms of roles and class identity. We don't want Rogues and Scouts and Ninjas all with 20 levels of same-but-different. We already have mechanics like Subclasses, ACFs and to a lesser extent Feats to cover that and I think the community already has this covered so the devs can make better use of their efforts elsewhere.

New subsystems would be lovely. Psionics, Arcanum, Blade Magic, Binding, Shadowcasting, Truenaming and more can be brought in just from 3.5, and then there is all the completely new stuff they could imagine. These should be fully integrated with class/subclass/ACF, racial and feat options and not just separately tacked on.

What I would hate to see is the Devs staying in the comfort zone and not venturing out beyond a subclass here and a feat or spell there. The community can and likely already has done the hard work creating fun and balanced content that covers the standard tropes and concepts that the PhB & Xan's missed, the Devs should be devoting their efforts to stuff that is truly new and unique. That's why they are professionals getting paid and we are the fans doing it out of love for the game.

[LtPowers]

I don't think they meant that Arcane Domain would be Arcane Hierophant's equivalent. To me, it seems LtPowers only added one more dual caster to the list.

No, I misunderstood the intent behind "Arcane Hierophant". I'm not familiar with the prestige class so I didn't immediately associate the term "hierophant" with druids.

Even now that it's explained, though, I don't quite understand the concept.


Powers &8^]

[Naanomi]

Arcane Heirophant was a mix of Druid and (usually) Wizard casting, plus combining your familiar with your animal companion

[Arkhios]

No, I misunderstood the intent behind "Arcane Hierophant". I'm not familiar with the prestige class so I didn't immediately associate the term "hierophant" with druids.

Even now that it's explained, though, I don't quite understand the concept.


Powers &8^]


Arcane Heirophant was a mix of Druid and (usually) Wizard casting, plus combining your familiar with your animal companion

Frankly, I don't see a need for Arcane Hierophant. It's one of those Prestige Classes from 3.5 that felt like it was shoehorned into the book (Races of the Wild supplement) to fill some vanishingly small niche.

[Nifft]

Frankly, I don't see a need for Arcane Hierophant. It's one of those Prestige Classes from 3.5 that felt like it was shoehorned into the book (Races of the Wild supplement) to fill some vanishingly small niche.

Frankly, the places where your approval would be relevant is an even smaller niche.

We've already got at least two subclasses devoted to mixing Cleric and Sorc/Wiz, and a one-level dip into Cleric is a common Wizard buff. We have zero subclasses devoted to mixing Druid with Arcane. There's clearly interest in such a mix, so they will probably do it eventually.

I suspect it'd work best as a Druid subclass.

[Naanomi]

I don’t see much need for it either. Now that they don’t get Animal Companions; their main gimmick beyond spellcasting is already sort of unnecessary. Multiclassing, Magic Initiate... both can hit the flavor a little bit... and we already have Land Druids giving expanded spell lists in Wizard territory mechanically

[Kane0]

combining your familiar with your animal companion

Now that's a neat idea. An actual niche for a 5 level Prestige Class, requiring you to have a companion (beastmaster ranger) and access to Find Familiar.

[Personification]

I personally would love something like a gravity-monk. A martial artist who bends physics to truly achieve the impossible. Stuff like running on the ceiling, grounding yourself with increased potency to make yourself harder to move, pulling the staff just slightly out-of-reach into his hands to continue fighting, or maybe hitting someone and changing how gravity affects specifically them.
I am Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Faerun...

[Nifft]

Now that's a neat idea. An actual niche for a 5 level Prestige Class, requiring you to have a companion (beastmaster ranger) and access to Find Familiar.

Or even just a feat for a Beast Ranger: add some Wizard spells to your (terribly sparse) list, and your beast-bro gets some Familiar perks.

[Arkhios]

Frankly, the places where your approval would be relevant is an even smaller niche.


Dude. No need to get offensive and personal!

I only gave my opinion. Is that illegal now?

[Nifft]

Dude. No need to get offensive and personal!

I only gave my opinion. Is that illegal now?

Them: "I like X and I want a version in the game."

You: "There's no need for X, therefore your preference is invalid."

What you did is take a dump on someone else's opinion. That's not you having an opinion -- that's you putting someone else down.


The bad-feeling you were trying to give someone else is apparently something you don't enjoy feeling yourself.

Don't put down other people's preferences. Talk about something you like instead of complaining that other people like different things.


EDIT: ... but just so we're clear, there's nothing personal about it -- it's just a fact that your dislikes will have little to no effect on what new content will be produced, so long as there is clear demand for that content. Content for new options just need a sizable market, they don't need the approval of everyone playing the game.

[Arkhios]

Them: "I like X and I want a version in the game."

You: "There's no need for X, therefore your preference is invalid."

What you did is take a dump on someone else's opinion. That's not you having an opinion -- that's you putting someone else down.


The bad-feeling you were trying to give someone else is apparently something you don't enjoy feeling yourself.

Don't put down other people's preferences. Talk about something you like instead of complaining that other people like different things.


EDIT: ... but just so we're clear, there's nothing personal about it -- it's just a fact that your dislikes will have little to no effect on what new content will be produced, so long as there is clear demand for that content. Content for new options just need a sizable market, they don't need the approval of everyone playing the game.

I said nothing of the sort that would be translated to "therefore your preference is invalid". What I said, is that I don't see a reason for it to be a thing, and I gave my reason for that opinion. I'm not irritated by that someone disagrees with my opinion, I'm irritated that someone makes so hostile counter-argument. There was zero need for that. I didn't mean it as an assault on someone else's preferences. If you would read up a few posts, you could see that I also said how I would see Arcane Hierophant being implemented if it did. What I said afterwards, was merely an addendum to that I don't feel it's a required addition to the game. Besides, Naanomi did give a good point that gave me even better ground to stand for my opinion: land circle druid already steps into Arcane Hierophant's "turf" because they get access to mostly wizard-only spells already.

[Spacehamster]

A barbarian sub class that is powered by demonic energy.

[Esprit15]

A friend of mine actually was working on a heirophant subclass. Think they had it as a druid base, gave them wizard spells, an expanded list to use for familiars, and the casting spells from plants, I think.

[Cynthaer]

I see a lot of mentions of "Warlord" and "mundane class that wants Int".

You should probably check out the Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-p_eoKxIH8), where he's been streaming development of a Warlord subclass for Fighter for the last month or so. It's got a lot of area-related buffs (so no playing other people's characters for them) and legitimate non-magical healing (with overhealing translating to temp HP). In particular...


I guess...

One that optimized Healing/Temp HP (which is probably something base Warlords have, but this would so it better)

One that focuses on mobility, perhaps with a focus on ‘mass combat’/able to affect lots of people at once

A debuffing/sabotage the enemy type, able to use whatever resource Warlords use to buff their own to instead hinder foes

One with a bit more combat skill, ‘leading from the front’ inspiration type... a valor bard of Warlords. Maybe some auras

^ You basically listed word-for-word the design approach that Mearls has set up for the subclass. The implementation details have been shifting, for obvious reasons, but I think the most recent iteration has healing and extra damage as one resource pool, area-focused buffs as an "always-on" feature (one active at a time, Concentration-style), and debuffs as a spell-like resource. He also has most of the abilities usable "as part of an attack action", so Warlords can deal full damage without screwing up dual-wielding.

Personally, I'm excited. :)

EDIT: Also, I admit I'm perplexed by the specific calls for "arcane 1/2 caster" and "divine 1/3 caster".

Like, the Ranger and Paladin get 1/2 casting because that's the progression the designers decided on for the classic "partial caster" classes, and they happen to be divine casters. The classic "arcane partial caster", the Bard, probably could have gone either way, but they decided to make it a full caster for various reasons.

Then the 1/3 casting progression exists to enable specific gish archetypes for classes that get relatively little power from their subclass (Fighter and Rogue), and both of those archetypes use arcane magic.

I guess I just haven't seen an example of the actual missing archetype that one of these would solve. Like, what's the partial arcane casting character that needs a 1/2 progression specifically, and isn't already covered by the Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster on one side or Bladelock/Valor Bard/Swords Bard/Bladesinger on the other? Or what's the partial divine caster that needs a 1/3 progression, and couldn't be implemented as a Paladin Oath or a heavy armor Cleric domain?

I'm 100% not saying that no character archetype would ever want one of these. I'm just saying it seems to be putting the cart before the horse to start with "we don't have a [magic type] [fraction] caster" and then look for a reason to make it.

[youtellatale]

I want a druid that isn't reliant on wild shape, one that doesn't even have the feature. I am more of a fan of the nature theme and wild shape should be an option, not a requirement. So much more they could've done with the class that they just whiffed on (in my opinion).

Aside from that, a Summoner would be wonderful to have (though there are some decent options in 5e - just none at low level).

Lastly: the Factotem, Shadowcaster, and Chronomancer were always fun.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I want a druid that isn't reliant on wild shape, one that doesn't even have the feature. I am more of a fan of the nature theme and wild shape should be an option, not a requirement. So much more they could've done with the class that they just whiffed on (in my opinion).

Aside from that, a Summoner would be wonderful to have (though there are some decent options in 5e - just none at low level).

Lastly: the Factotem, Shadowcaster, and Chronomancer were always fun.

I wonder how balanced a cleric with the druid spell list and any undead-related class abilities changed to work on beasts would be.

[mr-mercer]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I need a non-magical unarmed specialist and/or one that wouldn't be crippled by focusing on strength rather than dex, and I'm not too fussed as to whether either of those take the form of a class, subclass or fighting style. Related to that, it would be interesting to see a grappling specialist or someone really skilled with improvised weapons, though I don't feel particularly strongly about either of those.

I don't think I'd ever end up playing them, but I agree with everyone else that there need to be more uses for intelligence.

[sulimo0310]

I am going to second Dragonfire Adept. My favorite class from 3.5e. You gotta love being able to be a resourceless controller without ever needing to make an attack roll. D20's notoriously hate me. 😁

[Kane0]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I need a non-magical unarmed specialist and/or one that wouldn't be crippled by focusing on strength rather than dex, and I'm not too fussed as to whether either of those take the form of a class, subclass or fighting style. Related to that, it would be interesting to see a grappling specialist or someone really skilled with improvised weapons, though I don't feel particularly strongly about either of those.

Like a pugilist? I think MFoV and the DMGuild has some stuff that would qualify.

[Garresh]

Binder. MFoV has a great class but I can't take that to AL. Still love it through.

[Daithi]

I'd like to see an official Mystic.

I'd also like to see a darker druid --- maybe a Shadowfell based Druid where the trees are dead, everything is shrouded in fog, and the nocturnal creatures prefer hunting in darkness. Or, maybe, an Urban based Druid that incorporates the inner city slums with its special blend of creatures that are able to survive in a city environment by scavenging and stealing (I'm currently playing a Druid thief).

[JakOfAllTirades]

Master thrower seems like something that a Feat could create, without needing a subclass

The Sharpshooter Feat covers archery (along with the Archery Fighting style) quite well, but we still got a dedicated subclass for Archery, whether we needed it or not. (We didn't.)

Therefore, this doesn't stand as an argument against having a dedicated Master Thrower subclass.

[GreyBlack]

Just with regards to Master Thrower.... I just want better support for throwing period. Even just a feat so that I don't have to take an action to pull a weapon out so that I could make multiple thrown weapon attacks.

I don't think that justifies a full archetype, but it would be nice to even have that support.

[Ivellius]

It's got a lot of area-related buffs (so no playing other people's characters for them) and legitimate non-magical healing (with overhealing translating to temp HP).

Yeah, and it'd be really cool to play that as a character from 1st level, especially given that Mearls has fleshed out a unique mechanic for it.


EDIT: Also, I admit I'm perplexed by the specific calls for "arcane 1/2 caster" and "divine 1/3 caster".

To some extent I think it's natural to want for completeness's sake, but I would say either the 3e Duskblade (Arcane Channeling) or Swordmage (defender / marking magic/martial hybrid) would make sense as an Int-based half-caster and classes that would broaden the scope of 5e, maybe even having a class that adapts both. Personally, I did a Hexblade in that role, too, which I think worked pretty well but was mostly identical to the Paladin.

As far as a "divine third-caster," 3e's Shadowbane Stalker or a "Rage Prophet" barbarian / druid hybrid would both be pretty fun to see. I bet you could find several old prestige classes that might make for interesting updates in that thematic.

[mephnick]

I was thinking PF's Inquisitor, though not sure if that was actually a 1/3 caster or not.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I was thinking PF's Inquisitor, though not sure if that was actually a 1/3 caster or not.

I used to play one of those. Their spells go up to 6th level, so they're kinda like a 2/3rds caster. I guess?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

The most natural 1/3 divine caster IMO is a Sacred Fist monk subclass.

[Arkhios]

The most natural 1/3 divine caster IMO is a Sacred Fist monk subclass.

Agreed. Even though I've made a Rogue with 1/3 divine spellcasting, that was inspired by Pathfinder's inquisitor. Although, from later inspection, it could work as an iteration of the Black Flame Zealot (from at least as far as 3.0).

If I'm not mistaken, PF inquisitor's (and other similar classes') spellcasting is counted by 1/3 × level; rounded up, but it caps at 6th spell level for some arbitrary reason.

If the progress didn't cap at 16th level with 6th-level spells, classes such as inquisitor would get 7th level spells at 19th class level.

In 5th edition, single-class partial classes count their level by 1/2 × level, rounded down (Paladin or Ranger) or by 1/3 × level, rounded down (Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight), which is why their first spell level comes at 2nd or 3rd level, respectively. Unless multiclassed, in which case they are rounded up for a (seemingly arbitrary) reason: balance.