Sorcerer & Runestaff Help?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all,
I was looking over some of the posts here and I saw the Runestaffs mentioned in passing, so I looked them over and I just want to make sure I am not missing anything but they seem extremely useful for some character classes, so I was hoping that someone had any advice about them?

So far I was thinking a Sorcerer with a Runestaff or two is definitely the best class for it as they have plenty of the spell slots and the Runestaffs would give them an easy way to simulate knowing more spells.

This gets even more disturbing if you decide to go for an Item Familiar, as you don't need Craft Staff to add more spells to a cheap version you could purchase for 5400 with "only" 2 level 3 spells on it.

P.S: Hell, my current Artificer is foaming at the mouth as this provides a massive buff to his already ridiculous utility :) although I am not sure if you could use Infusions slots to feed the Runestaffs.

[Jack_Simth]

Hello all,
I was looking over some of the posts here and I saw the Runestaffs mentioned in passing, so I looked them over and I just want to make sure I am not missing anything but they seem extremely useful for some character classes, so I was hoping that someone had any advice about them?

So far I was thinking a Sorcerer with a Runestaff or two is definitely the best class for it as they have plenty of the spell slots and the Runestaffs would give them an easy way to simulate knowing more spells.

This gets even more disturbing if you decide to go for an Item Familiar, as you don't need Craft Staff to add more spells to a cheap version you could purchase for 5400 with "only" 2 level 3 spells on it.

P.S: Hell, my current Artificer is foaming at the mouth as this provides a massive buff to his already ridiculous utility :) although I am not sure if you could use Infusions slots to feed the Runestaffs.
It's also good for a prepared caster, because it allows conversion of spells on the fly. It effectively grants extra spells prepared.

Custom Runestaffs are slightly iffy, but are really where you're next thought goes. If arbitrary runestaffs are permitted, then yes, they're stupidly good if done as an Item Familiar or otherwise bonded item that lets you skip construction requirements (there's multiple ways).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A character can only be attuned to one runestaff at any given time, and you can only attune to one while preparing/recovering your spells for the day, so it doesn't do any good to have more than one.

Be careful with custom runestaffs, as using one to override a character's limited number of spells known can be extremely powerful and borders on TO (theoretical optimization that's useful for internet discussions, but shouldn't be used in actual play to avoid breaking the game).

For a custom runestaff (MIC p224) it really depends on your DM and your method of acquiring it. Creating one yourself requires Craft Staff and every one of the spells it contains, so for a Sorcerer you would need to hire one or more NPC spellcasters to contribute the spells every day that it takes to craft it (eight hours per day, one day per 1,000 gp of the base price), or get scrolls/wands which his prohibitively expensive. You can make one an Item Familiar which gets around needing Craft Staff, but you still need the spells to make it. You could try having one commissioned from an NPC item creator, but in that case the DM may stick closer to the guidelines regarding spell level and you may not get exactly what you want.

The best method for obtaining a custom runestaff is via Ancestral Relic. You can spend time and sacrifice wealth and goods to add whatever magical properties you want to the item, up to the level-based limit or the value of what's sacrificed. If the party would sell junk loot for half price you can buy it from the party pool for that price, get a portion of that back when the cash is split, and sacrifice the full value of that loot into your relic, effectively upgrading it for less than half price. It's possible to dip a level of OA Samurai and make your daisho a quarterstaff and use that class feature to make it a custom runestaff instead of using Ancestral Relic. However, that class feature implies that only magic weapon properties with an enhancement bonus cost are possible, so check with your DM before doing it that way.

Use an elvencraft (composite) longbow for your runestaff, as it counts as both a quarterstaff and a longbow, i.e. three weapons. You'd need to pay for masterwork three times, but you should also be able to put three wand chambers in it. You can make all three weapon portions +1 Defending, use Greater Magic Weapon to boost all of those, and put all three bonuses toward your AC as Defending says it stacks with all other bonuses which would include other Defending weapons. As long as you're holding that (which you always should be) you'll be able to activate any of the three wands as though you're holding each of them as well. You can use an Eternal Wand of an arcane spell that's not on your class list, such as Glibness or Hound of Doom. Per the Rules Compendium any spell trigger or spell completion item takes the same action to activate as the spell it contains, so a wand of Nerveskitter or Wings of Cover is still an immediate action to activate. If you have at least one level of a given class you can use wands of any spells on that class list, so for example a gish with two levels of Paladin can use wands of Knight's Move and Rhino's Rush.

[Nifft]

A character can only be attuned to one runestaff at any given time, and you can only attune to one while preparing/recovering your spells for the day, so it doesn't do any good to have more than one.

For a Sorcerer there might be some niche cases where it makes sense, but yeah for a Wizard you only want one Runestaff.

- Runestaff of Dungeon Blasting
- Runestaff of Underwater Survival
- Runestaff of Gathering Information
- Runestaff of Crafting and Fabrication
- Runestaff of Planar Binding Like a Boss

... etc.

[DEMON]

A character can only be attuned to one runestaff at any given time, and you can only attune to one while preparing/recovering your spells for the day, so it doesn't do any good to have more than one.

Be careful with custom runestaffs, as using one to override a character's limited number of spells known can be extremely powerful and borders on TO (theoretical optimization that's useful for internet discussions, but shouldn't be used in actual play to avoid breaking the game).

For a custom runestaff (MIC p224) it really depends on your DM and your method of acquiring it. Creating one yourself requires Craft Staff and every one of the spells it contains, so for a Sorcerer you would need to hire one or more NPC spellcasters to contribute the spells every day that it takes to craft it (eight hours per day, one day per 1,000 gp of the base price), or get scrolls/wands which his prohibitively expensive. You can make one an Item Familiar which gets around needing Craft Staff, but you still need the spells to make it. You could try having one commissioned from an NPC item creator, but in that case the DM may stick closer to the guidelines regarding spell level and you may not get exactly what you want.

The best method for obtaining a custom runestaff is via Ancestral Relic. You can spend time and sacrifice wealth and goods to add whatever magical properties you want to the item, up to the level-based limit or the value of what's sacrificed. If the party would sell junk loot for half price you can buy it from the party pool for that price, get a portion of that back when the cash is split, and sacrifice the full value of that loot into your relic, effectively upgrading it for less than half price. It's possible to dip a level of OA Samurai and make your daisho a quarterstaff and use that class feature to make it a custom runestaff instead of using Ancestral Relic. However, that class feature implies that only magic weapon properties with an enhancement bonus cost are possible, so check with your DM before doing it that way.

Use an elvencraft (composite) longbow for your runestaff, as it counts as both a quarterstaff and a longbow, i.e. three weapons. You'd need to pay for masterwork three times, but you should also be able to put three wand chambers in it. You can make all three weapon portions +1 Defending, use Greater Magic Weapon to boost all of those, and put all three bonuses toward your AC as Defending says it stacks with all other bonuses which would include other Defending weapons. As long as you're holding that (which you always should be) you'll be able to activate any of the three wands as though you're holding each of them as well. You can use an Eternal Wand of an arcane spell that's not on your class list, such as Glibness or Hound of Doom. Per the Rules Compendium any spell trigger or spell completion item takes the same action to activate as the spell it contains, so a wand of Nerveskitter or Wings of Cover is still an immediate action to activate. If you have at least one level of a given class you can use wands of any spells on that class list, so for example a gish with two levels of Paladin can use wands of Knight's Move and Rhino's Rush.

So you point out custom made runestaves might be TO, then suggest Ancestral Relic Elvencraft Bow runestaff with 3 wand chambers and with 3x +1 Defending enchantment boosted by GMW, absuing both the wand chamber amount and the tripled defending enchantment?

Dont't you think this combo might bear at least the same "might be broken as all hells" tag you applied to the custom runestaves at early in your post? :smallamused: