Best melee class at level 1

[Twilightinferno]

My DM allowed me to have the leadership feat and now I have about 15 1st level npc warriors under my command. My DM also said that I could turn them into a different melee class (within reason) if I could find someone of that class to train them. Since they would still be unable to go past level one I'm trying to think of the melee class that would be the most effective at 1st level.

[Karl Aegis]

Definitely the Druid.

[Mike Miller]

My DM allowed me to have the leadership feat and now I have about 15 1st level npc warriors under my command. My DM also said that I could turn them into a different melee class (within reason) if I could find someone of that class to train them. Since they would still be unable to go past level one I'm trying to think of the melee class that would be the most effective at 1st level.

"Within reason" may exclude Tomb of Battle classes, but those would be the "best melee" classes at level 1.

[Troacctid]

Either Warblade or Crusader would be your best bet.

[daremetoidareyo]

If you can break them into three 5-person squads, you might be able to maximize your value. A marshal, a dragonfire inspiration bard, and 3 whirlpouncebarians per squad would be fantastic.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Whirling frenzy lion spirit totem Barbarian.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Regardless of what you pick, be sure to give some/most/all of them Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a).

[GrayDeath]

"Best" regarding pure Damage or Utility Battle worth, or a mix of both?

In case of pure Damage, see Kelb-panteras post, otherwise either Warblade or Crusader.

[Eldariel]

Druid, Wizard, Cleric, Barbarian/Warblade/Crusader in about that order. Melee Wizard 1 with Abrupt Jaunt in particular (12 Int is fine) would be a lot of fun. Druid companion is probably a more powerful warrior than any NPC with NPC array so there's that. And the 1-2 spells (11-12 Wis) plus cantrips add a whole lot of power.

[Blackhawk748]

I'd probably say Crusader solely for the fact that they can self heal

[Necroticplague]

Crusader's are a munchkin dream for low level melee. They don't have to deal with pitiful things like 'rescource management' that is supposed to balance every other class. They damage better than the fighter, tank harder than the barbarian, and heal better than the cleric thanks to the either munchkin-placed or very poorly edited abilities. Seriously, who the heck thought at-will healing was a good idea?

[GrayDeath]

Its not at will., strictly speaking.

Unless you are among the people allowing Strikes (That need combat and fitting targets) against...rocks, trees and other stuff. And even then the random maneuver recovery might throw you off, as you need to end combat to be SURE to get them back into readied status.

[Aside from the fact that at will healing would not be terribly unbalanced later on any way. Not if compared to Druids, Clerics and so on].


Not saying they dont rock at lower elvels though, rather the opposite, hence the suggestion. ^^

[heavyfuel]

Honestly, it probably doesn't matter.

15 level 1 whatevers don't pose much - if any - threat to anything by the time you're (presumably) lv 12.

I'd go for Rangers, Rogues, or even Experts (yes, the NPC class) over any other non casting class simply because having decent Listen and Spot scores will be the absolute best thing they can have, even if it's not much. Also, with plenty of skill points (and class skills in case of the Expert), you can grab some utility skills that might be useful when you inevitably leave them all guarding your stronghold.

You never know when your keep might need a fellow trained in Knowledge (Architecture) or something.

[emeraldstreak]

Within typical books, spirit lion totem/whirling frenzy/mad foam rager Water Orc Barbarian will give you the top payout.

Within the entire edition, flaws and Dragon Magazine included, Ranger and Monk can be temporary immune to most damage at level 1.


The best PO 1st level meleeist isn't a martial though, it's a certain gish who used on certain arenas and won them all.

And the best TO 1st level meleeist is a Kobold Paladin with an appreciation for Pazuzu.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Crusader is probably the best at level 1, obviously? Very hard to kill, and decent damage!
Otherwise Druid with Wild Cohort taken as many times as possible is great (1 +1 for human +2 for flaws: the druid hangs back and casts entangle or buff spells while his 4 Wild Cohorts fight in his stead. A good, solid build that's not the most convenient indoors and that doesn't have a ton of DPS but that's very hard to put down entirely and that can be optimized in very different way (I like having 2 Wild Cohorts that are Wolves that go for tripping attacks, and 2 that go for Power Attack once the target is downed. Or having 4 Wild Cohorts that can grapple: one goes in for the pin while the three other rip the target apart).

[heavyfuel]

Within the entire edition, flaws and Dragon Magazine included, Ranger and Monk can be temporary immune to most damage at level 1.


The best PO 1st level meleeist isn't a martial though, it's a certain gish who used on certain arenas and won them all.

Similarly, a Warforged Pugilist Fighter (Dragon 310) is immune to damage at lv 1. Doesn't fit most DM's definition of "within reason" though.

And what might this gish be? And against whom did they win every fight?

[emeraldstreak]

Similarly, a Warforged Pugilist Fighter (Dragon 310) is immune to damage at lv 1. Doesn't fit most DM's definition of "within reason" though.


I don't recommend the Pugilist because its original RAW was somewhat confusing, and I've also heard something about errata but haven't investigated the rumor. If the DM reads it as immunity to nonlethal damage it makes even easier to deploy Troll-Blooded.

As for Warforged, they can get the immunity at level 1 as casters via Lesser Construct Essence.

[Necroticplague]

Its not at will., strictly speaking.

Unless you are among the people allowing Strikes (That need combat and fitting targets) against...rocks, trees and other stuff. And even then the random maneuver recovery might throw you off, as you need to end combat to be SURE to get them back into readied status.
It’s not their strikes that allow for the at-will healing. Those typically say the enemy has to actually be a threat. However, they have a stance that doesn’t. And it’s a level 1 stance.

Also, you don’t need to exit combat to refresh a strike. You’ll eventually get all your readied maneuvers re-granted (and refreshed) if you simply have the current encounter go on long enough.

[Aside from the fact that at will healing would not be terribly unbalanced later on any way. Not if compared to Druids, Clerics and so on].
That’s it’s not as horrifically unbalanced as the least balanced crap in the game isn’t saying much. At-will healing completely does away with the concept of resource management for most mundanes. One of the basic precepts of the game is that a mundanes HP are it’s finite resource, or are refreshed using finite resources. Were the game to have any sense of balance, infinite HP would be tantamount to infinite spell slots.

[Elkad]

I'm going to throw my hat in for Crusaders as well.
Maybe with a couple other support classes.

Two Crusaders with Iron Guard Glare (and polearms) can give +4 AC to a 10-man formation, including one another, holding a 25' wide room. Or 15 men if they are in a 5x3 square in the open
The rest in Martial Spirit.

Then Crusader Strike+Martial Spirit to heal one another if needed, and whatever of their other 4 strikes are available when CS is in the deck or not needed.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Were the game to have any sense of balance, infinite HP would be tantamount to infinite spell slots.
Very funny, but no. You're starting your argument from the assumption that there is some balance between mundane resource management (hp) and caster resource management (spell slots). We all know there is not; that's the big problem with mundanes. If you're trying to argue that mundane resource management should be as one-dimensional as tracking hp, you are arguing that the game should be terribly designed and boring.

At-will healing is useful, but totally fine and balanced.


On topic: My vote is for an azurin crusader with Shape Soulmeld (Astral Vambraces), Shape Soulmeld (Therapeutic Mantle), and a flaw for one point of essentia, or a warforged crusader with Adamantine Body (and possibly also flaws for Therapeutic Mantle + essentia).

[Arael666]

Whirling frenzy lion spirit totem Barbarian.


Regardless of what you pick, be sure to give some/most/all of them Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a).

This is why I love the playground, it always amuses me to find out what people interpret as "whithin reason".


If you can break them into three 5-person squads, you might be able to maximize your value. A marshal, a dragonfire inspiration bard, and 3 whirlpouncebarians per squad would be fantastic.

Now this is actually a very nice idea, let's see if I can add something to that.

I assume the OP is playing arround 8-10 lvl, since he has a leadership score of 14. I'll also assume that wizards, druids, warlocks, psions and similar classes with access to spellcasting by lvl 1 are forbidden, since your DM specified "melee class".

With that basis, my choice would be the fighter. Yeah, I know, not very imaginative, but hear me out.

Within the lvl of play you're in, no matter how you build your lvl 1 melee followers, they are nott gonna be able to take much punches from the chalenges you'll be facing, that is, if you want to bring them into combat with you. Thus, I would advise you to make them all ranged (archers), hence the fighter class, the extra feat would go towards the far shot feat, so they can stay away from harm, the humans could grab e weapon focus to help they land more arrows.

Also, you didn't mention your second level followers, you should have one, he should be a marshal, providing Steady Hand aura to further improve thair ranged attack rolls.

If my assumptions are wrong - and you can train them in any class - just make all of them warlocks with Eldritch Spear. You have a lesser die damage but touch attacks that pierce damage reduction are a great tool to have. The marshal providing ranged aura should be left unchanged, since his aura applies to the eldritch blast.

[Crake]

My DM allowed me to have the leadership feat and now I have about 15 1st level npc warriors under my command. My DM also said that I could turn them into a different melee class (within reason) if I could find someone of that class to train them. Since they would still be unable to go past level one I'm trying to think of the melee class that would be the most effective at 1st level.

The NPC class "warrior" is about the best they can be actually. Allowing your followers to be anything BESIDES commoners, experts and warriors is actually an optional rule described in the epic level handbook:


OPTIONAL RULE: EXCEPTIONAL FOLLOWERS
Though followers are normally warriors, experts, or commoners, your DM might allow you to have characters of other classes as followers. If you use this optional rule, adept or aristocrat followers count as followers of two levels higher than their actual character level. A follower with any levels in a PC class counts as a follower three levels higher than his character level. A follower with any levels in a prestige class counts as a follower five levels higher than his character level. This reflects the fact that such characters are rarely followers and are much more likely to be unique characters in their own right.
For example, a 6th-level commoner, warrior, or expert counts as a 6th-level follower. A 6th-level adept or aristocrat would count as an 8th-level follower. A 6th-level fighter or 3rd-level aristocrat/3rd-level wizard would count as an 9th-level follower. A 5th level rogue/1st-level assassin would count as an 11th level follower.

[daremetoidareyo]

Strongheart halfling fighters. Give them the swarmfighting feat and weapon finesse. Give one of them a tower shield. Give a few pole arms.

[Elkad]

If you intend to take them with you to fight CR14 guys, go ranged and keep them far away. And they'll still probably eat a random fireball and die.

If you want them to guard your house and hold up until your spouse can use a Sending Stone to fetch you, I'd still go with the Crusaders.
And build a room with a bunch of platforms for them to stand on so Shadows can't grab them by the toes from inside the floor.
Also applies to holding the breached city gate vs the Red Hand of Doom and various other things.

To expand on my previous.
Say they are on guard duty back at your home.
You have some regular warriors as well, who are assumed to give the alarm and die, giving 2/3rds of your 15 guys time to take position guarding the main hall. The other third are assumed to be in town drinking, or otherwise unavailable.

10 Crusaders form up 5 wide across a 25' room.
2 Sgts with Iron Guard Glare take the 2nd and 4th positions in the back row.

Standard Array (13,11,12,9,10,8) They'll have 11hp, a 5pt Steely Resolve pool, and -10 to dead, so 26hp to kill one. If you don't kill one, his buddies are going to step over him, heal him up with strikes, and he gets back up a couple rounds later.
Give them Chainmail, Heavy Shield, Guisarme, Longsword.
An effective AC of 21 in the front row, 19 in the back (with Iron Guard glare up from a couple back-row guys)
+2 to hit until someone lands a blow on a target with Leading or Vanguard (should probably use Aid Another at first), then +6 to hit should be sustainable on that target until it drops.

Even without any help, they can probably hold a whole town worth of zombies.
Vs orcs or goblins or whatever, they just need to be safe from missile weapons.

Lets make it worse. Ghouls. Full attacking they get a hit about 25% of rounds, but damage alone won't win, they have to land the paralyze, which is less than 50% chance. It only lasts 3.5 rounds. That 5-man front is going to have a couple guys paralyzed at any given time, but they'll still tank pretty well. They'll be hitting 50% of the time, for 5 damage, so 6 guys kill one ghoul per round. (assume 4 guys are paralyzed, hitting the wrong ghoul, or busy trading places with a paralyzed buddy).
Without Simming it out, I think they could hold a long time. At some point the dice would fall poorly and too many would get paralyzed and they'd have a cascade failure.

If you make your Crusaders halflings, it probably works out better. -1 damage per hit, +2 AC, +1 saves. Maybe give up a hitpoint for another point of AC. This is an endurance contest. They just have to hold out until help (you, or your cohort at least) arrives.
High AC, decent to-hit, and all of them healing someone every hit does that.


Edit: Having read Crake's post, if you are stuck with Warriors, I'd consider making them Humans and blowing both feats on Marshall Study (probably all Vanguard Strike) and Martial Stance (Martial Spirit and Iron Guard mixed). Strike would only be usable 1/encounter, but Spirit would stay up all the time.

[gorfnab]

...I have about 15 1st level npc warriors under my command. My DM also said that I could turn them into a different melee class (within reason)...
If you don't mind them being Dwarf Crusaders that would be a good start to your own personal phalanx. The Spartan Handbook (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=4963)

[Necroticplague]

Very funny, but no. You're starting your argument from the assumption that there is some balance between mundane resource management (hp) and caster resource management (spell slots). We all know there is not; that's the big problem with mundanes.
Here, let me highlight the relevant part, since apparently it wasn't emphasized strongly enough in your quote.

Were the game to have any sense of balance, infinite HP would be tantamount to infinite spell slots.
I acknowledge that infinite HP isn't horrifically broken, because the game isn't balanced such that HP are on a proper playing field with other resources as they should be. It's still broken, just not horrifically broken.


If you're trying to argue that mundane resource management should be as one-dimensional as tracking hp, you are arguing that the game should be terribly designed and boring. How it that any more one dimensional than tracking your PP pool? Either way, you're just accounting numbers. That's what 'resource management' is. It adds an important element to the game by forcing you to balance possibilities against your resources (i.e, 'i could charge, but that would leave me vulnerable to counterattacks' is just the mundane equivalent of 'i could nova, but I might need those spell slots later'. ), instead of only what is the most effective.



At-will healing is useful, but totally fine and balanced.
I disagree. A character who never has to worry about attrition vastly changes how I have to plan encounters with them in it (namely, since I can't kill them over time over several encounters, every single encounter has to be lethal for there to be any real threat). If they can extend this to the entire party, is exaggerates the problem even worse. Anything that can change how I have to plan the entire campaign like that is practically the definition of broken. The closest thing to a 'defence' is that there's even more broken things.

[emeraldstreak]

Standard Array (13,11,12,9,10,8)

If they are Crusaders, they are using the elite array. Even so, 15 Str + 1 BAB won't cut it against high CR monsters. Same goes for AC, ~21 would be great against 1st level-appropriate enemies, but against high CR monsters it'll have little effect.

If these followers are actually supposed to assault the main, high CR, monsters (as opposed to fighting minions in the background), bet on the highest attack possible (an orc barbarian has +7 from Str, BAB, and rage/frenzy). Alternatively, create some touch attack build, for example with Touch of Golden Ice.

Defensively, against high CR monsters, the best bet are immunity-like effects. While Mad Foam Rager greatly boosts the odds to act before dropping, the real meat would be OKing Troll-Blooded and flaws. By itself the regeneration allows much higher survival rate post-battle. Couple regeneration with nonlethal damage immunity, and the followers will actually be able to tank high CR monsters.

[ericgrau]

Even as hard hitting melee I don't see much use for them. They'll rapidly die to damage in any fight you're in no matter how defensive you make them. Any particular goals for these followers?

Maybe it would be better to use them as messengers, escorts and/or crafters.

[Doctor Awkward]

Crusader's are a munchkin dream for low level melee. They don't have to deal with pitiful things like 'rescource management' that is supposed to balance every other class. They damage better than the fighter, tank harder than the barbarian, and heal better than the cleric thanks to the either munchkin-placed or very poorly edited abilities. Seriously, who the heck thought at-will healing was a good idea?

^ Complains about at-will healing in a world where wands of lesser vigor exist.

[Necroticplague]

^ Complains about at-will healing in a world where wands of lesser vigor exist.

1. That's not at will healing. It's a large amount of healing, but it's a finite amount (550 HP per wand).
2. Wand charges are a resource.
3. As a DM, I control item distribution, and can always arrange for items to be stolen, so broken items are less of a big deal than proben class abilities.
4. Again, one thing being more broken doesn't make something else not broken.

[Karl Aegis]

Wait, where does it say NPC followers get different arrays than completely average 10-11 based on which class they take? Where does it say certain classes get better arrays than other classes? We're comparing classes, not classes with different arrays, feats and races.

[Eldariel]

Wait, where does it say NPC followers get different arrays than completely average 10-11 based on which class they take? Where does it say certain classes get better arrays than other classes? We're comparing classes, not classes with different arrays, feats and races.

10-11-10-11-10-11 tends to be a monster array. Humanoids with NPC class levels tend to use nonelite array (13-12-11-10-9-8) instead, as evident in every stat block in every book ever.


1. That's not at will healing. It's a large amount of healing, but it's a finite amount (550 HP per wand).
2. Wand charges are a resource.
3. As a DM, I control item distribution, and can always arrange for items to be stolen, so broken items are less of a big deal than proben class abilities.
4. Again, one thing being more broken doesn't make something else not broken.

Well, the worst case scenario is that the party just takes Craft Wand or does one of those "everyone plays Undead/Tomb-Tainted Soul and one plays Dread Necro"-things. Yes, it's a large finite amount of healing but it's so cheap (1,36 gold per HP) that it practically amounts to free unless the party is basically no wealth (for which the game couldn't be balanced anyways). Attrition isn't much of a thing as long as time is an infinite resource but if time becomes a finite resource, things chance. Note that different paradigms apply to different parties and that should be entirely okay - the game shouldn't be the same regardless of what everyone is or there wouldn't be much of interest in the "what" in the first place.

[Doctor Awkward]

1. That's not at will healing. It's a large amount of healing, but it's a finite amount (550 HP per wand).
2. Wand charges are a resource.
3. As a DM, I control item distribution, and can always arrange for items to be stolen, so broken items are less of a big deal than proben class abilities.
4. Again, one thing being more broken doesn't make something else not broken.

1. So are Devoted Spirit maneuvers.
Even with Extra Granted Maneuver there is no guarantee you will have your healing when you need it.
And even IF you have it ready when you need it there's no guarantee you will have something within your movement rate that has both an alignment component differing from yours and also poses a direct threat to your or your allies.
And even IF there is such a target within reach, there is no guarantee you will actually succeed in striking your opponent to enable the healing.
There's a big difference in the reliability of Devoted Spirit Strikes and magic spells.
2. So are martial maneuvers. They just recharge slightly more quickly.
3. As a DM, you also control the scope and type of encounters your party fights in. Such as a team of archers pelting them endlessly with arrow volleys from 600 ft. away.
4. True, but not being broken in the first place does wonders to make a thing not broken. Core is a very ****ty metric by which to judge game balance. The majority of the broken features of 3.5 are found there.

[Kelb_Panthera]

1. So are Devoted Spirit maneuvers.
Even with Extra Granted Maneuver there is no guarantee you will have your healing when you need it.
And even IF you have it ready when you need it there's no guarantee you will have something within your movement rate that has both an alignment component differing from yours and also poses a direct threat to your or your allies.
And even IF there is such a target within reach, there is no guarantee you will actually succeed in striking your opponent to enable the healing.
There's a big difference in the reliability of Devoted Spirit Strikes and magic spells.
2. So are martial maneuvers. They just recharge slightly more quickly.
3. As a DM, you also control the scope and type of encounters your party fights in. Such as a team of archers pelting them endlessly with arrow volleys from 600 ft. away.
4. True, but not being broken in the first place does wonders to make a thing not broken. Core is a very ****ty metric by which to judge game balance. The majority of the broken features of 3.5 are found there.

You're not wrong but you seem to have forgotten about the martial spirit stance.

[Elkad]

If they are Crusaders, they are using the elite array. Even so, 15 Str + 1 BAB won't cut it against high CR monsters. Same goes for AC, ~21 would be great against 1st level-appropriate enemies, but against high CR monsters it'll have little effect.

If these followers are actually supposed to assault the main, high CR, monsters (as opposed to fighting minions in the background), bet on the highest attack possible (an orc barbarian has +7 from Str, BAB, and rage/frenzy). Alternatively, create some touch attack build, for example with Touch of Golden Ice.

Defensively, against high CR monsters, the best bet are immunity-like effects. While Mad Foam Rager greatly boosts the odds to act before dropping, the real meat would be OKing Troll-Blooded and flaws. By itself the regeneration allows much higher survival rate post-battle. Couple regeneration with nonlethal damage immunity, and the followers will actually be able to tank high CR monsters.

VS high level stuff they are just going to die horribly. Sure, a bunch of barbarians might get a swing in, but they'll still die to the first 10d6 fireball (The 2 that make their save will live, barely). Or the first CR9 Frost Giant with Great Cleave (it takes him 2 swings vs Mad Foam types).
Give them Regeneration and they still die to the fireball, and everything else just keeps them disabled unless the fight moves away from them.
Regeneration plus Non-lethal Immunity is headed for cheese territory rapidly, I can't see that flying at all.

I've never seen anyone bring their 1st level followers on an adventure. They guard the house, maybe help in town vs the big invasion (fighting mooks offscreen), etc.
Fighting slightly out of their CR a mass of Crusaders can do just fine. 15 of them is CL3.8. Any melee monster up to about CR7 they can handle. They may lose a few guys, but they'll win.

8 headed Hydra? Strong melee, good fast healing. Let's look at that.

First round they miss a lot, but manage to land a Vanguard strike and get in flanking positions (it's got reach, so the formation is useless). Any damage they do is covered by fast healing. Hydra kills one guy (or drops 2). Next round they hit on a 9. Flank*, vanguard strike, etc. Now they do 5.5 *.6 *14 = 46 damage, -18 fast healing. Net 24. And heal anyone not dead to full, plus some of them will get DR5 running, etc. They lose another guy every round, but that's only 3.3 damage. 24+20+17+14 net=75. Dead Hydra at the end of round 5. If they lose an extra guy the first round (probably to attacks of opportunity while maneuvering for the flank), it takes them 3 extra rounds to kill it. Only netting 4 damage the last round, which means if they don't kill it then, they lose.

*with all those heads, you'd think a Hydra would count as all-around vision and be immune to flanking...

With 10 guys instead, they'll need banded mail, MW longswords and elite array. Maybe a Shield of Faith potion each. Or Martial Scripts of Mountain Hammer.
Or a complex dance of readied actions, with guys swinging "after it successfully bites someone twice" "after it bites someone 3 times", etc. You might actually be able to keep people alive that way.

Sure, the Mad Foam Ragers would kill it faster. So would a bunch of naked warlocks with 1hp each and a combat-useless invocation like Bonus to Spot.
What happens when the ragers have to hold a gate against 120 goblins? They get pecked to death. Oh sure, it'll be glorious for a few rounds, but they'll lose. The Crusaders finish the fight with everyone at full health.

[Doctor Awkward]

You're not wrong but you seem to have forgotten about the martial spirit stance.

Martial Spirit has the same problem as every other maneuver. You have to actually hit something for it to work. Specifically you have to hit an "opponent" with a melee attack. If you or you DM is allowing that stance to function against mundane inanimate objects, helpless animals, small children, and the like, you are doing wrong.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Martial Spirit has the same problem as every other maneuver. You have to actually hit something for it to work. Specifically you have to hit an "opponent" with a melee attack. If you or you DM is allowing that stance to function against mundane inanimate objects, helpless animals, small children, and the like, you are doing wrong.

Nonlethal brawl with a party member. Nonlethal damage naturally heals at a substantially greater rate than lethal and while that PC might go down faster if the next fight is close on the heels of the first, he probably won't die if his side wins. Never mind being healed -during- that fight while the enemy focuses on the larger threat of the crusader.

That aside, it still completely invalidates your first two points.

[Doctor Awkward]

Nonlethal brawl with a party member. Nonlethal damage naturally heals at a substantially greater rate than lethal and while that PC might go down faster if the next fight is close on the heels of the first, he probably won't die if his side wins. Never mind being healed -during- that fight while the enemy focuses on the larger threat of the crusader.

That aside, it still completely invalidates your first two points.

Party members are not opponents. They are allies.

[Elkad]

Party members are not opponents. They are allies.

Maybe at your table :P

But yes, I agree. A sparring match doesn't qualify.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Party members are not opponents. They are allies.

Sure they are. You're rolling attacks against their AC. Enemy, ally, opponent etc aren't so clearly defined that you can just say "no, that doesn't work," unless it's a player at -your- table.

[Necroticplague]

Martial Spirit has the same problem as every other maneuver. You have to actually hit something for it to work. Specifically you have to hit an "opponent" with a melee attack. If you or you DM is allowing that stance to function against mundane inanimate objects, helpless animals, small children, and the like, you are doing wrong.

No, it doesn't. It says

While you are in this stance, you or an ally within 30 feet heals 2 points of damage each time you make a successful melee attack
It never specifies that it has to be against an opponent. Doesn't even say it has to do damage, either, just has to be successful melee attack (i.e, beat its AC).

[heavyfuel]

No, it doesn't. It says

It never specifies that it has to be against an opponent. Doesn't even say it has to do damage, either, just has to be successful melee attack (i.e, beat its AC).

Yes, it does.


As you cleave through your foes, each ferocious attack you make lends vigor and strength to you and your allies.

And before you say "Oh, that's just fluff text" or something to that effect, remember that this "fluff text" is:

1- An excuse for any DM to simply say "Yeah... That tree over there is clearly not a foe"


2- Actual RAW. It's text in a rule book.

[Doctor Awkward]

Plus the last paragraph of the stance, which states, "Each time you hit an opponent in melee, you can choose a different recipient within range to receive this healing."

[Remuko]

Plus the last paragraph of the stance, which states, "Each time you hit an opponent in melee, you can choose a different recipient within range to receive this healing."

Irrelevant. Opponent and ally are subjective terms. Your party gets into a fight with a vampire and you can declare the vampire your ally. That wont change anything except that to your character he is considered an ally until/unless you say otherwise. Opponent/Ally are arbitrary terms. If you decide to spar with an "ally" during that sparring match he is your "opponent" if you say he is.

[Necroticplague]

And before you say "Oh, that's just fluff text" or something to that effect, remember that this "fluff text" is:

1- An excuse for any DM to simply say "Yeah... That tree over there is clearly not a foe"


2- Actual RAW. It's text in a rule book.
Fortunately, I had no intent to use that argument.

My argument is instead that that is an unrelated effect. Just like how Sudden Leap leaves your opponents baffled in some unspecified way, separately from its affect of letting you make a Jump check and moving the resultant distance, this stance has 2 separate affects:
1.As you cleave through your foes, each ferocious attack you make lends vigor and strength to you and your allies.
What exactly this 'strength and vigor' is is unspecified, but you and your allies all get it whenever you attack someone.
2. Its affect or restoring 2 HP to you or an ally each time you make a successful melee attack.

EDIT:

Plus the last paragraph of the stance, which states, "Each time you hit an opponent in melee, you can choose a different recipient within range to receive this healing."
Not really pertinent, because the part that actually involves the healing doesn't make any mention of it targeting anything.

Like I said, poorly edited.

[heavyfuel]

whenever you attack someone.


Exactly. "Someone". Sparring session is a-ok, but hitting a table isn't

[Necroticplague]

Exactly. "Someone". Sparring session is a-ok, but hitting a table isn't

For the 'strength and vigor' to 'you and your allies', correct. However, the part about healing you or an ally only requires a successful melee attack.

[Nifft]

If there is no DM (i.e. you're not actually playing, you're just theory-crafting), then you're free to interpret "opponent" as you like.

If there is a DM, then just ask your DM how the stance works. Probably it will work in the more limited, less abuse-prone way -- but who knows, maybe you'll find a suitable food bribe and social engineer your way into healing shenanigans.

[heavyfuel]

For the 'strength and vigor' to 'you and your allies', correct. However, the part about healing you or an ally only requires a successful melee attack.

Close, but no.


This healing represents the vigor, drive, and toughness you inspire in others.

You need to hit a foe to gain the vigor, and this vigor is represented by the healing.

[Doctor Awkward]

Irrelevant. Opponent and ally are subjective terms. Your party gets into a fight with a vampire and you can declare the vampire your ally. That wont change anything except that to your character he is considered an ally until/unless you say otherwise. Opponent/Ally are arbitrary terms. If you decide to spar with an "ally" during that sparring match he is your "opponent" if you say he is.

Nonsense.
Having an actual glossary definition is not required for a word to have a specific meaning and function within the rules of the game. Because the rules are not structured in such a way as to spell out every single thing to you. If they did they would be larger than a full volume set of the Encyclopedia Britannica and cost more than a car. "Opponent" and "Ally" are contextually identified throughout the entirety of the Player's Handbook. The word opponent is mentioned no less than fifty times in the Combat chapter alone. What creatures are allies and which ones are opponents. They are required to be identified for combat to function at all, and for resolving any situation involving combat:


Movement from allies through your threatened area does not provoke attacks of opportunity. An opponent's movement does.
You can move freely through an ally's square without penalty. You must Tumble through an opponent's square.
Roughly 100% of all beneficial "buffing" spells and effects require you to know who your allies are before you cast them.

If "opponent" and "ally" were arbitrary, then none of the rules that govern them would have any meaning.

At best... at best... while you are "sparring" with your (former) ally to facilitate healing with Martial Spirit, you can heal yourself and anyone else watching within 30 feet, and wind up with at least one bruised and battered punching bag at the end of it. Because it only functions in combat, and only heals allies, by requiring you to strike opponents.


Not really pertinent, because the part that actually involves the healing doesn't make any mention of it targeting anything.

Like I said, poorly edited.
If you think that the line which ends "recipient which receives the healing" does not involve the rules on healing, then you are confusing your own willful misreadings with poor editing.

That would be like me saying that rogue is broken because they can take epic feats at level 10, as the class on the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm) reads, "A rogue may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability.", and since there are no other restrictions listed he can clearly take any old feat he wants from absolutely anywhere.

[RaiKirah]

Back to the OP's question:

Not actually all that good, but i'm going to put a vote in for: Human Barbarian with Frozen Berserker (Frostburn) and Final Strike (Savage Species).

Have your lvl1 mooks swarm a guy and then when they die (and they will die) they'll deal a total of 15d6 extra cold damage. If you have a Bard with Inspire Greatness in the party this goes up 2d6 worth of damage for every ally he can target. If you're a roving band of bards with your fanatical groupies traipsing around with you then various songs can beef up your explosive fans rather dramatically.

[Yogibear41]

Mystic Ranger, get skills, level 0 spells, and decent combat ability, toss on wild shape ACF for +10ft to movement speed and you got a pretty handy 1st level character.

The level 0 spells will go along way to keep your followers alive, do note that they have to eat and drink (unless they are warforged or something) and at least being able to cast create water as a level 0 spell will save you a significant amount of resources.