Need help fleshing out a character idea

[Donutman3546]

So I just finished playing in my first D&D campaign ever. The same group will be getting back together to start another campaign shortly and I need help fleshing out my idea for a character. We will be playing 3.5.

I would like to play a human child, about 11 or 12 years old, who is an assassin. He'll be a little psychotic, but seemingly innocent. As far as role playing goes, I know how I want to play my character. But as far as class and feats go, I'm not sure. I was thinking rogue because the sneak attack lends itself to the idea of an assassin, but are there any other good classes for this kind of character?

Another thing I'm thinking of is items to start. Are there any good items that will help with my role as assassin but also fit the theme of a child? The example I can come up with is marbles. Any help would be appreciated!

[Karl Aegis]

You might want to look at Xanadu from King of Fighters XIV.

[Zombulian]

Do you want to have the physical stats of a child? Or are you just going to RP it that way?

[Falontani]

Pathfinder has the Young Template which can be used to make it more believable that your character is young.

As for character ideas:
1 Rogue Able Learner, Craven
2 Swashbuckler (Weapon FinesseB)
3 Warblade (Martial Study: Shadow Blade Technique)
4 Swashbuckler
5 Swashbuckler
6 Warblade (Whatever you would like)
7 Warblade
8 Warblade (We get assassin's Stance Here)
9 Warblade (Improved InitiativeB), Daring Outlaw
10 Warblade
11 Warblade
12 Assassin (Shadow Blade)
13 Assassin
14 Assassin
15 Assassin
16 Assassin
17 Assassin
18 Assassin
19 Assassin
20 Assassin

You get Dex to hit. You get dex + str + 2xInt to damage. Max out your intelligence and your dexterity. Your intelligence will boost your Assassinate DCs and your damage. You get 10d6+20 Sneak Attack Damage per hit which is only 1d6 behind a pure rogue. You have 16 BAB, allowing you 4 attacks per round.
Your HD are 10d6, 7d12, 3d10 which is much better than your standard rogue/assassin at 20d6. Your saves are better.
You lose access to a large amount of skills, and evasion, although you are at a decent place for those.
Finally you pick up a considerable amount of warblade maneuvers.

[Donutman3546]

You might want to look at Xanadu from King of Fighters XIV.

Unless I'm googling the wrong thing, I can't seem to find anything that is particularly helpful. Would you please explain more?


Do you want to have the physical stats of a child? Or are you just going to RP it that way?

My DM ruled that we would do these stat differences from what I rolled, and have half the speed of a normal human.
-2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom and +2 Charisma.


Pathfinder has the Young Template which can be used to make it more believable that your character is young.

As for character ideas:
1 Rogue Able Learner, Craven
2 Swashbuckler (Weapon FinesseB)
3 Warblade (Martial Study: Shadow Blade Technique)
4 Swashbuckler
5 Swashbuckler
6 Warblade (Whatever you would like)
7 Warblade
8 Warblade (We get assassin's Stance Here)
9 Warblade (Improved InitiativeB), Daring Outlaw
10 Warblade
11 Warblade
12 Assassin (Shadow Blade)
13 Assassin
14 Assassin
15 Assassin
16 Assassin
17 Assassin
18 Assassin
19 Assassin
20 Assassin

You get Dex to hit. You get dex + str + 2xInt to damage. Max out your intelligence and your dexterity. Your intelligence will boost your Assassinate DCs and your damage. You get 10d6+20 Sneak Attack Damage per hit which is only 1d6 behind a pure rogue. You have 16 BAB, allowing you 4 attacks per round.
Your HD are 10d6, 7d12, 3d10 which is much better than your standard rogue/assassin at 20d6. Your saves are better.
You lose access to a large amount of skills, and evasion, although you are at a decent place for those.
Finally you pick up a considerable amount of warblade maneuvers.

This sounds MUCH better than pure Rogue. The only note of concern I have would be the xp penalty for multiclassing. I'm not 100% sure my DM will use it, but I will definitely ask. With starting stats of 17, 17, 14, 15, 13, and 12, and the stat changes I mentioned earlier (-2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom and +2 Charisma) where would you recommend putting these numbers for that build?

[Falontani]

This sounds MUCH better than pure Rogue. The only note of concern I have would be the xp penalty for multiclassing. I'm not 100% sure my DM will use it, but I will definitely ask. With starting stats of 17, 17, 14, 15, 13, and 12, and the stat changes I mentioned earlier (-2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom and +2 Charisma) where would you recommend putting these numbers for that build?

Str: 12 (-2) 10
Dex: 17 (+4) 21
Con: 14 (+0) 14
Int: 17 (-2) 15
Wis: 13 (-2) 11
Cha: 15 (+2) 17

If you are human (which it seems you are) you get to choose your multiclass (Any). With the build as written you shouldn't be getting multi class penalties if you choose the correct class. That said I have no recollection of the actual rules on multiclass xp penalties

[Celestia]

This sounds MUCH better than pure Rogue. The only note of concern I have would be the xp penalty for multiclassing. I'm not 100% sure my DM will use it, but I will definitely ask.
Drop a level of swashbuckler for an extra level of either rogue or warblade, and a human will have no multiclass penalties. A better option would be to convince your DM that multiclass penalties are stupid and shouldn't exist since they only weaken the already weak classes and do nothing to the strong ones.

[Donutman3546]

Str: 12 (-2) 10
Dex: 17 (+4) 21
Con: 14 (+0) 14
Int: 17 (-2) 15
Wis: 13 (-2) 11
Cha: 15 (+2) 17

If you are human (which it seems you are) you get to choose your multiclass (Any). With the build as written you shouldn't be getting multi class penalties if you choose the correct class. That said I have no recollection of the actual rules on multiclass xp penalties

Okay, thank you for the help! This seems like a pretty viable build.


Drop a level of swashbuckler for an extra level of either rogue or warblade, and a human will have no multiclass penalties. A better option would be to convince your DM that multiclass penalties are stupid and shouldn't exist since they only weaken the already weak classes and do nothing to the strong ones.
I will definitely be talking to my DM about multiclassing, just trying to prepare as best I can for either possibility.

[Zombulian]

The only note of concern I have would be the xp penalty for multiclassing.

I 100% forgot this rule existed.

[Doctor Awkward]

I 100% forgot this rule existed.

Everyone does. Because it's a terrible rule that was very poorly implemented. Multiclass penalties do nothing to restrict nonsensical builds, while severely limiting normal ones. A wild elf barbarian 5/ranger 2 has an EXP penalty, despite the similar themes of the classes, and the natural, tribal focus of that race. Meanwhile, a dwarf Cleric 2/Monk 1/Wizard 1/Fighter 2/Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Druid 2/Assassin 10 has no EXP penalty. How is this justified?

[Donutman3546]

Everyone does. Because it's a terrible rule that was very poorly implemented. Multiclass penalties do nothing to restrict nonsensical builds, while severely limiting normal ones. A wild elf barbarian 5/ranger 2 has an EXP penalty, despite the similar themes of the classes, and the natural, tribal focus of that race. Meanwhile, a dwarf Cleric 2/Monk 1/Wizard 1/Fighter 2/Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Druid 2/Assassin 10 has no EXP penalty. How is this justified?

That's a very good point. I hope my DM decides not to use it, but we're all fairly new to D&D so I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to stick with the rules in the book as much as possible.

[DMVerdandi]

I really like falontani's Build, but I think going for a less...subtle, little tank of a berserker could be a fun alternative.
With this you get all skills, 18th level Initiator level, a More than a few spells, and rage. Lots of it. This is an angry child.



1. Factotum (Able Learner/Martial Study:Shadow Blade technique)
2.Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian
3.Warblade 1 (Extra rage)
4.Warblade 2
5.Warblade 3(Extend Rage)
6.Warblade 4
7.Warblade 5 (Extra rage)
8.Warblade 6
9.Chameleon 1 (Extra rage)
10.Chameleon 2
11.Jade Phoenix Mage 1 (Extend Spell)
12.Jade Phoenix Mage 2
13.Jade Phoenix Mage 3 (Quicken Spell)
14.Jade Phoenix Mage 4
15.Jade Phoenix Mage 5 (XX)
16.Jade Phoenix Mage 6
17.Jade Phoenix Mage 7(xx)
18.Jade Phoenix Mage 8
19.Jade Phoenix Mage 9 (xx)
20.Jade Phoenix Mage 10


Jade Phoenix mage is advancing Chameleon, which will get you All arcane/Divine spells up to 6.

[Sleven]

As someone who's played a child character (ranging from normal to messed up) a number of times, I cannot recommend it enough. Excellent opportunity to introduce some heart and emotion to your group (assuming they're into solid roleplay). On the other hand, psychotic for the sake of psychotic is repetitive and bland. Most people also don't have an understanding of the psychological issues they're trying to portray, which messes with immersion. I recommend doing some preliminary reading. You walk a fine line.


Jade Phoenix mage is advancing Chameleon, which will get you All arcane/Divine spells up to 6.

Chameleon spellcasting cannot be progressed with PrCs.

That being said, I am a fan of Factotum dips on any intelligence based "assassin" character.

I would also recommend checking out the Psionic Assassin (from Secrets of Sarlona). While the DMG Assassin has great spell support, psionics opens you up to a new set of feats and combinations.

EDIT: Assuming you count as Small, also check out the Underfoot Combat line of feats.

[Donutman3546]

As someone who's played a child character (ranging from normal to messed up) a number of times, I cannot recommend it enough. Excellent opportunity to introduce some heart and emotion to your group (assuming they're into solid roleplay). On the other hand, psychotic for the sake of psychotic is repetitive and bland. Most people also don't have an understanding of the psychological issues they're trying to portray, which messes with immersion. I recommend doing some preliminary reading. You walk a fine line.



Chameleon spellcasting cannot be progressed with PrCs.

That being said, I am a fan of Factotum dips on any intelligence based "assassin" character.

I would also recommend checking out the Psionic Assassin (from Secrets of Sarlona). While the DMG Assassin has great spell support, psionics opens you up to a new set of feats and combinations.

EDIT: Assuming you count as Small, also check out the Underfoot Combat line of feats.


Oh, I will definitely be doing some reading. And if I don't think I can pull it off, I will probably scrap the psychotic part and keep the rest of it.

Where did you find that Chameleon spellcasting can't be progressed with PrCs?

I'm not sure anybody at our table has played a Psionic before. Where would you recommend finding the rules on how they work for player and DM?

I will definitely be considered small, and these are some nice looking feats, especially since our DM loves big monsters.
I'll have to weigh them against the other options I'm looking at. Thank you for the suggestion!

[Zombulian]

Where did you find that Chameleon spellcasting can't be progressed with PrCs?


I'm pretty sure the reasoning here is that the spells of a Chameleon are not so much inherent to the class as they are an option derived from a specific class feature. As almost all casting progressing PrC's have the passage: "S/he does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained."

Edit: Also the specific passage in the Chameleon class, "You can't use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option."

[Donutman3546]

I'm pretty sure the reasoning here is that the spells of a Chameleon are not so much inherent to the class as they are an option derived from a specific class feature. As almost all casting progressing PrC's have the passage: "S/he does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained."

Edit: Also the specific passage in the Chameleon class, "You can't use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option."

Okay! That definitely makes sense. Thank you for the explanation. I definitely think I'm going to be following Falontani's build. With a couple modifications.