Feat or ASI?

[quark12000]

I'm playing a Half-Orc fighter that I want to multiclass dip into Barbarian for 3 levels after he hits 5th level fighter for story and mechanical reasons.

His stats are:

STR - 16
DEX - 13
CON - 16
INT - 10
WIS - 12
CHA - 8

He's currently level 3. My question is: When he get to level 4, should I increase STR, CON, STR & CON, or take the Resilient feat and get his DEX to 14 for max AC? Thanks.

[OvisCaedo]

Well... I can at least say that increasing strength+con by 1 each would be a terrible choice that wouldn't really give you anything except a slightly higher carrying capacity. Except it'd be worse for that than just taking 2 strength now and 2 con later.

That doesn't narrow things down much though!

[quark12000]

I agree. Just thought I should explore all possibilities.

[Contrast]

Polearm master and great weapon master are both very strong choices (GWM in particular) but both lock you into certain weapon types.

I wouldn't take resilient - even with the plus 1 you're sitting at 15 AC which is what you'd get from wearing armour (or you could go up to 16 if you don't mind disadvantage on stealth checks) while danger sense is going to give you advantage anyway. Depends how defensively minded you are (if you are you might want to consider shield master instead though again that locks you out of weapon types).

+2 strength is the most boring option but will also mean +1 to all attack rolls and +1 to all damage and give you flexibility in use whatever magic weapon the party picks up in their travels, in addition to making you naturally better at being the party strong man (which I'm assuming you want if you're wanting to multiclass barbarian).

[quark12000]

I should have specified. He's a sword and shield fighter. The reasons I'm considering Resilient ae these: 14 Dex plus half-plate and shield gives me 19 AC, the same as he has now with splint. So not losing anything there. Proficiency in DEX throws, along with Danger Sense seems pretty strong to me. And, since DEX is my only odd stat, it seems a waste to use an ASI to just improve one stat, when I could get that plus a lot more with the feat. Hadn't considered Shield Master, I'll have to read up on it.

[sophontteks]

You will not be getting another ASI until level 11 as a result of the dip into barbarian. You are basically running one feat/ASI short already unless you take the barbarian to level 4. You can just wear heavy armor and the dex problem is solved, allowing you to beef up your strength and make up for the ASI you lost. I don't think resilient is a terrible idea, but that +1 damage and +1 to hit will add up to a pretty significant number during your journey from level 5 to level 11. It'll mean the difference between hitting and whiffing many times, and it'll mean the difference between your opponent living or dying many times as well.

[quark12000]

I thought you couldn't rage in heavy armor?

[quark12000]

You will not be getting another ASI until level 11 as a result of the dip into barbarian. You are basically running one feat/ASI short already unless you take the barbarian to level 4. You can just wear heavy armor and the dex problem is solved, allowing you to beef up your strength and make up for the ASI you lost. I don't think resilient is a terrible idea, but that +1 damage and +1 to hit will add up to a pretty significant number during your journey from level 5 to level 11. It'll mean the difference between hitting and whiffing many times, and it'll mean the difference between your opponent living or dying many times as well.

Wait, what do you mean? No other ASI until level 11? Fighter gets one at level 6.

[Hecuba]

If you are planning to build some synergy around AGI saves and Danger Sense (ex: adding Shield Mastery as the next feat), Resilience will win out.

If not, 2 CON will probably be better than Resilience for defensive needs: you'll still get the AC, you'll also get the HP, and Danger Sense is probably good enough for your DEX saves if you're not looking at Shield Mastery.

2 STR would be workable if you're looking for offense, but you're asking about AC so I don't think that that is the case. And if it is, there are probably better options (great weapon master, Savage attacker, orcish fury, etc.).

Splitting an ASI between 2 stats is not worthwhile at this level (though it might be next ASI, if you take a feat that boosts STR or CON here).

[sophontteks]

I thought you couldn't rage in heavy armor?
Oh my bad then, sorry.
Tough call between your damage output and your AC here then.

I don't know enough to make the call.


Wait, what do you mean? No other ASI until level 11? Fighter gets one at level 6.
Yeah, I shouldn't have even said anything. I don't know jack about barbs and fighters.
but really, good for fighters. Good on them for getting more feats then normal. They deserve it

[quark12000]

If you are planning to build some synergy around AGI saves and Danger Sense (ex: adding Shield Mastery as the next feat), Resilience will win out.

If not, 2 CON will probably be better than Resilience for defensive needs: you'll still get the AC, you'll also get the HP, and Danger Sense is probably good enough for your DEX saves if you're not looking at Shield Mastery.

2 STR would be workable if you're looking for offense, but you're asking about AC so I don't think that that is the case. And if it is, there are probably better options (great weapon master, Savage attacker, orcish fury, etc.).

Splitting an ASI between 2 stats is not worthwhile at this level (though it might be next ASI, if you take a feat that boosts STR or CON here).

Several questions:

What are AGI saves?

How do I "still get the AC" when not putting a point into DEX?

I'm asking about AC because 14 seems to be the best for barbarians and his is 13. I'm still very interested in offense. What are Savage Attacker and orcish fury?

[CTurbo]

I would go +2 to Str at level 4 all the way

[quark12000]

I would go +2 to Str at level 4 all the way

That's my natural inclination. And then, maybe, take Resilient at Fighter 6. Slightly lower than possible AC for the Barb levels, but better offense.

[bid]

He's currently level 3. My question is: When he get to level 4, should I increase STR, CON, STR & CON, or take the Resilient feat and get his DEX to 14 for max AC? Thanks.
I'd rather resilient(Wis) later, so ASI for Dex14/Wis13 first.

That being said, Str18 or shield master would be best at fighter 4.

[quark12000]

I'd rather resilient(Wis) later, so ASI for Dex14/Wis13 first.

That being said, Str18 or shield master would be best at fighter 4.

You think having proficiency in WIS saving throws is better than DEX throws?

[bid]

You think having proficiency in WIS saving throws is better than DEX throws?
Dex is damage, Wis is loss of control.

Without shield master, Dex save reduces to half damage. It allows you to last longer before you run out of hp.

Loss of control on the first round means you aren't there to protect the party, or even worse... you are attacking the party.

[quark12000]

Good point.

[CTurbo]

I'd rather have prof in Wis throws than Dex. You're already going to have advantage on Dex saves. Wis saves will be your biggest defensive weakness. Even then, I don't see myself taking Res(Wis) with that build. I would probably take +2 Str at level 4 and +2 Con at level 6 and go unarmored with a shield.

I could see potentially putting +1 in Dex and Wis and then taking Res(Wis) later to round them both out, but I wouldn't do it until at least Str was at 18 if not 20.

[quark12000]

Unarmored? Why? Wouldn't that be worse AC for no benefit?

[CTurbo]

Unarmored? Why? Wouldn't that be worse AC for no benefit?


18 Con + 13 Dex + shield is just 1 AC lower than Breastplate + shield. Eh I guess there really isn't any real benefit from going unarmored aside from flavor so fair enough.


So I could see taking +2 Str at level 4, and then +1 to Dex and Wis next, and then Res(Wis) after that.

[kardar233]

As you’re a sword and shield fighter, I would definitely grab Shield Master with your ASI. Unless you’re a Battlemaster (what is your Fighter subclass, anyway?), you don’t have anything to do with your bonus action and this will give you a source of advantage, plus the other lovely benefits of Shield Master. Plus, when you go into Barbarian and Rage, you’ll have advantage on your Strength checks for better shove reliability, and you’ll also be able to avoid Reckless Attacking in a lot of cases. You’re AC 18 if you can get Half-Plate, which makes you a difficult target if you’re not being Reckless, and combined with your Rage damage resistance you will be extremely tough.

[Spacehamster]

I should have specified. He's a sword and shield fighter. The reasons I'm considering Resilient ae these: 14 Dex plus half-plate and shield gives me 19 AC, the same as he has now with splint. So not losing anything there. Proficiency in DEX throws, along with Danger Sense seems pretty strong to me. And, since DEX is my only odd stat, it seems a waste to use an ASI to just improve one stat, when I could get that plus a lot more with the feat. Hadn't considered Shield Master, I'll have to read up on it.

Would advice to take 6 levels fighter before the dip to get 2 ASI’s since your dip will heavily delay your next ASI otherwise. Both +2 STR and resilient are fine choices. That’s why 6 fighter would be nice, nets you both. :)

[Deadandamnation]

I'm playing a Half-Orc fighter that I want to multiclass dip into Barbarian for 3 levels after he hits 5th level fighter for story and mechanical reasons.

His stats are:

STR - 16
DEX - 13
CON - 16
INT - 10
WIS - 12
CHA - 8

He's currently level 3. My question is: When he get to level 4, should I increase STR, CON, STR & CON, or take the Resilient feat and get his DEX to 14 for max AC? Thanks.

Pump Dex and Wis @4 than take resilient (Wis) the next ASI.

Your char seems a defensive one so 16 Str is enough. Bring It to 18 the 3rd ASI if you like.

[Hecuba]

Several questions:

What are AGI saves?

Sorry, was up late playing a FASERIP system (Marvel Super Heroes '86) and didn't get my brain back into SDCIWC gear fully for the post.
AGI (Agility) should be DEX (Dexterity) instead. My bad.


How do I "still get the AC" when not putting a point into DEX?
You indicated you were dipping barbarian. Barbarians get unarmored defense at level 1, which sets AC as 10+CON Mod+DEX Mod (+ the 2 from your shield).

Edit: if you're already rocking a Breastplate, you would indeed want to stay armored instead for the time being. If you're dealing with a chain shirt, unarmored will keep up as soon as you take the first barbarian level.
But presumably you'll bump the CON up higher over time, and perhaps the DEX too. You only need to get a combined modifier of +6 between the 2 stats to have unarmored break even with Breastplate. Half Plate will get you another +1, but I find the disadvantage to be a deal breaker.


I'm asking about AC because 14 seems to be the best for barbarians and his is 13. I'm still very interested in offense. What are Savage Attacker and orcish fury?

Savage Attacker (not to be confused with your racial Savage Attacks ability) is a feat in the PHB that lets you reroll weapon damage roll each turn.
Orcish Fury is a feat in Xanathar's that adds a couple attack bonuses on once per rest and +1 CON.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm playing a Half-Orc fighter that I want to multiclass dip into Barbarian for 3 levels after he hits 5th level fighter for story and mechanical reasons.

His stats are:

STR - 16
DEX - 13
CON - 16
INT - 10
WIS - 12
CHA - 8

He's currently level 3. My question is: When he get to level 4, should I increase STR, CON, STR & CON, or take the Resilient feat and get his DEX to 14 for max AC? Thanks. Suggest you not dip barbarian until after level 6. (You'll have a second ASI/feat).
First ASI to for STR. Better To Hit, Better Damage, and Better shove/grapple/climb/jump.
Suggest Feat: Shield Master to go with your sword and board theme.

[quark12000]

As you’re a sword and shield fighter, I would definitely grab Shield Master with your ASI. Unless you’re a Battlemaster (what is your Fighter subclass, anyway?), you don’t have anything to do with your bonus action and this will give you a source of advantage, plus the other lovely benefits of Shield Master. Plus, when you go into Barbarian and Rage, you’ll have advantage on your Strength checks for better shove reliability, and you’ll also be able to avoid Reckless Attacking in a lot of cases. You’re AC 18 if you can get Half-Plate, which makes you a difficult target if you’re not being Reckless, and combined with your Rage damage resistance you will be extremely tough.

Oh, sorry, Champion.

[bid]

Oh, sorry, Champion.
Then you really want to get advantage, and shield master is there for you.

Use your BA on shield master first to prone target and gain advantage, with reckless attack as a backup. That will roughly double your chances of getting a crit.

[quark12000]

Then you really want to get advantage, and shield master is there for you.

Use your BA on shield master first to prone target and gain advantage, with reckless attack as a backup. That will roughly double your chances of getting a crit.

Hmm...interesting.

[Chugger]

I often go va hu to get a starting feat and then asi the main stat to 20 asap. I realize you picked half orc, which has some nice stuff. But getting an extra +5 to hit and damage every roll (off going to 20 at lvl 8) is really nice - can make a giant difference.