Spell Reflection vs Evasion at low level

[Gelcur]

The title pretty much says it.

I am working on a Rogue, at level 9 he would gain Evasion again. If I was skipping the first 8 levels the answer would be simple get both Spell Reflection and Evasion. But to survive those first 8 levels seems Evasion is a better choice? Any opinions?

Our group has never really used retraining so retraining at 9 once he gets Evasion elsewhere is unlikely.

[Sleven]

Depends on how challenging your DM is. DMs that know the system well tend to rely less on spells that allow a reflex save for half. Reflex save for half spells also tend to have the downside of dealing HP damage, while rays (and the like) often have much more serious consequences.

Ultimately, it depends on how well you know your DM and what gear and/or party you have available.

[Troacctid]

Depends on how challenging your DM is. DMs that know the system well tend to rely less on spells that allow a reflex save for half. Reflex save for half spells also tend to have the downside of dealing HP damage, while rays (and the like) often have much more serious consequences.
Gotta disagree! Area effects can be much more threatening to a party than single-target attacks. Hitting everyone at once and dealing half damage even on a "miss" makes them highly efficient for taking down a group of targets, especially if said targets have unimpressive HP totals, as low-level characters so often do. Reflex saves are also much more common than ranged touch spells, what with traps, breath weapons, and all sorts of miscellaneous non-spell abilities forcing them.

I generally value evasion higher on dexterous types that have high Reflex, light armor, and small hit dice. Spell reflection goes up comparatively in value if you have lower Reflex, heavier armor that precludes evasion, and/or a high enough HP total to comfortably facetank fireballs.

[Venger]

evasion is more generally applicable, and functions an arbitrary number of times per day. rogues have umd, so if you need protection from rays, ray deflection exists.

[emeraldstreak]

Keep in mind in most campaigns Evasion counters more than mages. Be it dragons or other creatures with breath/etc area attacks, Evasion is applicable.

[Necroticplague]

Evasion is better. If you want protection from rays, just get a wand of Persistent Sanctum Friendly Fire.

[Gelcur]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

There is always a chance a DM will throw the occasional curve ball but in general seems Evasion will increase this PCs chance to live to get to higher levels.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, spell reflection is a purely agressive class feature. It turns a missed attack at you into an attack at the enemy. It doesn't turn an attack that hits into a miss. Evasion is pure defensive. Automatic damage attached to reflex saves is negated.

If you are looking for survivability go with evasion.

[Quertus]

Spell reflection only matters if they can see you to target you. You're a rogue. Why are you letting your foes see you, and live long enough after they see you to take an action?

Evasion helps with AoEs, which can hit you even if they don't know exactly where you are.

[Piggy Knowles]

Seems like everyone covered this already, but it’s worth mentioning that evasion is particularly useful for sneaky rogues. If you are sufficiently stealth-focused you should be able to beat most detection methods. In practice, I’ve found that foes who can’t stop you but know you’re there (say, because they keep finding your knives in their livers) often resort to carpet-bombing an area in hopes of catching you. Evasion makes that into a poor tactic.

[Gelcur]

All very good points. The min/maxer in me was trying to justify ditching it early so I would have both later, when I get it from a PrC. But I'd rather the character live long enough to see the higher level.

[Fouredged Sword]

Ask your DM about the retraining rules. You should be able to reselect an acf later for a reasonable price.

[Quertus]

All very good points. The min/maxer in me was trying to justify ditching it early so I would have both later, when I get it from a PrC. But I'd rather the character live long enough to see the higher level.

Did you GM kill characters? What happens at that point?

If you really want to ditch evasion, one possible solution is to simply do so. If the character dies, just bring another exact copy of him, until he lives, or you reach high enough level that you get evasion back, or you scrap the build for something else.

[Malimar]

If you really want to ditch evasion, one possible solution is to simply do so. If the character dies, just bring another exact copy of him, until he lives, or you reach high enough level that you get evasion back, or you scrap the build for something else.
Somehow I don't imagine a DM who doesn't allow retraining would allow Massive Heap Of Identical Bard Corpses Syndrome.

[Gelcur]

Did you GM kill characters? What happens at that point?
Nothing so dire, this is just an exercise in character building, working on a rogue PC that I can drop in no matter what level the DM wants L1-40.

Somehow I don't imagine a DM who doesn't allow retraining would allow Massive Heap Of Identical Bard Corpses Syndrome.
Yeah more how our game group plays no matter which of us DMs. Never done retraining and no clones, well unless you have some contingencies in place.:smallbiggrin:

[Troacctid]

Somehow I don't imagine a DM who doesn't allow retraining would allow Massive Heap Of Identical Bard Corpses Syndrome.
You kidding? That's why retraining was introduced in the first place! I'm pretty sure PHB2 talks about this exact thing.