Question about Cohort ability of the Enchanter specialist variant wizard

[Melcar]

So... I have encountered a bit of a problem.

The specialist enchanter variant wizard from the Unearthed Arcana. Its says that the enchanter gets a level 4 cohort at lavel 6. And after that moment follow the normal rules, however the wizard is to be calculated as 2 levels lover.

Now we have a problem. A player in my group has a level 9 cohort, who is this enchanter. We were discussing what level the cohorts cohort is.

My argument is that the cohort of the enchanter is level 5, when the cohort is level 9. This is because a cohort must be at least be 2 levels lower. Next the special enchanter cohort is another 2 levels lower. Thus the enchanter cohort is enchanter minus 4 levels.

Is this correct?

[PacMan2247]

Looking it over, the rule says that a leader can only recruit a cohort 2 levels lower; the enchanter variant gets a cohort at level 6, so the cohort is level 4 at that point. The enchanter variant then says "after that point, follow the normal rules...treat the enchanter's level as two lower than normal." So at level 9, the maximum level of a cohort that could be attracter would be seven, and the enchanter's Leadership score starts from a base of 7+Cha modifier, with any other modifiers to be applied from there, but this only matters if the cohort hasn't been attracted until this point for some reason. Since a cohort gains XP and treasure as a member of the party (unless you're houseruling it differently or I'm missing something here), a cohort is able to close the gap a bit over time, and will eventually be the same level as the leader (or if something causes the leader to lose levels, possibly even become higher-levelled than the leader). The cohort is determined entirely by the DM, who can choose to comply with the player's wishes, or not, as he or she sees fit. As far as I can see, that's where RAW ends, though like I said, I may be missing something here.


Moving into the murkiness of RAI, there are other things to consider. Party dynamics could be such that a cohort would remain under circumstances where his or her level matches or exceeds the Leader's, but he or she might also choose to part ways. Would a cohort even be in a position to become a leader? IMO, being a cohort is grounds for disallowing the Leadership feat, in addition to the DM having the right to disallow any alternative class feature, including this one. Being a genuine follower (as distinct from Followers granted from the feat) of another character doesn't strike me as a position of leadership, though it's a fine apprenticeship for becoming a leader in one's own right. At the very least, I think a cohort's Leadership score would require a reduction (affecting Followers as well as sub-cohort attraction) from the fact of being a cohort- why follow the follower, when the true leader is right there? Again, these are just my opinions at this point, but (obviously) I think them worth at least a moment's consideration.

[Melcar]

Looking it over, the rule says that a leader can only recruit a cohort 2 levels lower; the enchanter variant gets a cohort at level 6, so the cohort is level 4 at that point. The enchanter variant then says "after that point, follow the normal rules...treat the enchanter's level as two lower than normal." So at level 9, the maximum level of a cohort that could be attracter would be seven, and the enchanter's Leadership score starts from a base of 7+Cha modifier, with any other modifiers to be applied from there, but this only matters if the cohort hasn't been attracted until this point for some reason. Since a cohort gains XP and treasure as a member of the party (unless you're houseruling it differently or I'm missing something here), a cohort is able to close the gap a bit over time, and will eventually be the same level as the leader (or if something causes the leader to lose levels, possibly even become higher-levelled than the leader). The cohort is determined entirely by the DM, who can choose to comply with the player's wishes, or not, as he or she sees fit. As far as I can see, that's where RAW ends, though like I said, I may be missing something here.


Moving into the murkiness of RAI, there are other things to consider. Party dynamics could be such that a cohort would remain under circumstances where his or her level matches or exceeds the Leader's, but he or she might also choose to part ways. Would a cohort even be in a position to become a leader? IMO, being a cohort is grounds for disallowing the Leadership feat, in addition to the DM having the right to disallow any alternative class feature, including this one. Being a genuine follower (as distinct from Followers granted from the feat) of another character doesn't strike me as a position of leadership, though it's a fine apprenticeship for becoming a leader in one's own right. At the very least, I think a cohort's Leadership score would require a reduction (affecting Followers as well as sub-cohort attraction) from the fact of being a cohort- why follow the follower, when the true leader is right there? Again, these are just my opinions at this point, but (obviously) I think them worth at least a moment's consideration.

Thank you for your answer.

Our discussion did go into whether or not the: "treat the enchanter's level as being two lower than normal" was for level or leadership score, (I understand it, as if you think its for leadership score) or for level. Personally I see it not as meaning leadership score, but level, which would mean the level 9 enchanter actually counted as a level 7, and since a cohort has to be minimum 2 levels lover than the character gaining said cohort that would bring it to level 5. The reason I think its this, is because I would assume they would use the term "leadership score" if they mean that, instead they say level...

I think you bring up a good RAI point. However I have allowed firstly allowed the player to have leadership, and to be creative. (possibly a mistake.. we'll see). I dont want to withdraw that, so I personally dont have an issue with this. I should probably say, that its a single player game. Me and him. I actually don't know why I wrote: "a player in my group" (old habit I guess), since he's the only one. So him havin a cohort, that has a cohort is not really a problem... But, I still want to use the rules correctly and still want thing to run as smoothly, with a little DM Fiat as possible!

[PacMan2247]

You're welcome.

Since the Leadership feat itself only calls out that the cohort is two levels lower than the leader when being attracted in the first place, the only reason I can see for the variant enchanter's description instructing you to treat the enchanter's level as two lower is that whoever wrote that was interpreting the feat as saying the cohort has to remain two levels lower than the leader. Might have been RAI, but it's not written that way. Personally, I think artificially keeping the cohort down like that tosses a lot of role-playing and world-developing opportunities out the window.

As the DM, it's obviously your call. If you let the cohort and sub-cohort catch up, you're less likely to have situations that are either a cakewalk for the PC or lethal for the ducklings following behind.