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banthafett
2018-04-04, 09:26 AM
Shadowscales, in the Elder Scrolls lore, are members of the lizard race Argonians who are born under the astrological sign of the Shadow, and presented to the Dark Brotherhood guild of assassins for training and service.

I enjoy playing Argonians, specifically assassin-types, in Elder Scrolls games, so I thought I would try my hand at adapting the lore/playstyle for D&D 5e.

Race
Black (edit: or Green) Dragonborn. The dark skin fits with the shadow theme, and like Argonians black dragons are native to swamps. Lizardfolk are thematically, and mechanically more similar to Argonians, but monster races (edit: non-PHB races) aren’t allowed.

Playstyle
In the Elder Scrolls games, especially Skyrim, one of the most effective tools for assassination was sneak attacking. If you snuck up on someone and stabbed them with a one handed weapon you could do absurd damage with a single hit, and almost certainly kill your opponent. This concept doesn’t really translate that well to D&D 5e given the peculiarity of the way it handles the idea of a player trying to sneak up on and stab an opponent. However, volumes have been written on that particular subject, and I have no wish to reproduce them here. Suffice to say, dealing large amounts of damage with a melee weapon in a single turn is a bit more complicated than just getting the Sneak Attack class feature. As a result these builds try to replicate the playstyle of sneaking up on and dealing a large burst of damage to a character in a way that is both thematically and mechanically effective.

Builds

Trusts-His-Steel
Swashbuckler/Battlemaster
17/15/14/8/10/9

Rog 1-4 Putting Expertise into Stealth and Athletics, and taking +1 Str and Dex for our ASI
Ftr 1-6 Getting Two Weapon Fighting style, Riposte, Precision Attack, and one other maneuver, proficiency in Alchemist’s Tools, and taking +2 Str, and +2 Dex for our next two ASIs respectively.
Rog 5...

Dragonborns’ stat bonuses do not lend themselves particularly well to sneaky characters, so we have to get a little creative. Thus we initially specialize in Strength so that our damage output is strong, and increase our Dexterity as we are able.
Expertise at first level helps us mitigate the impact of unusually low Dexterity on our Stealth checks so that we are only slightly behind the curve. Our high strength and Expertise in Athletics means that not only will we be very adept at climbing and swimming, both thematically and mechanically appropriate, but we will also have the option of grappling, which gives us creative options for dealing with targets, especially once we get Extra Attack and Action Surge later on.
Cunning Action lets us hit and run when needed, but also has synergy with Grappling in that it gives us extra movement which we can use to reposition our opponent.
Fancy Footwork lets us hit and run without using a bonus action so we can more consistently attack with our off hand.
Rakish Audacity third level allows us to consistently get Sneak Attacks in melee when we are fighting a target one on one, which meshes well with our playstyle.
Everything we get from fighter is excellent for us. Our fighting style gives us increased damage on our offhand attack, Action Surge gives us greater damage potential and flexibility that really shines when combined with Extra Attack, Superiority Dice grant us flexibility, increased burst damage, and the potential to get an extra Sneak Attack per round when someone misses us, Extra Attack is, of course, amazing, and finally two ASIs mean that at Fighter level 6 we will have maxed both our Strength and Dexterity.

This build features solid sustained damage progression from 1-20, solid burst damage which really climbs from level 6 to 9, good stealth, flexible combat options, and thematically appropriate skills.

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Waves-His-Hands
Rogue/Hexblade
12/14/14/8/10/16

Rog 1 Putting Expertise into Stealth, and Thieves’ Tools
Hex 1-5 Getting the Devil’s Sight/Darkness combo, Pact of the Blade, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, and +2 Charisma via ASI.
Rog 2-4... or Hex 6-8... +2 Charisma via ASI.

Our Dragonborn racial bonuses synergize a bit better with this build. Hex Warrior allows us to use our Charisma for attacks and damage with a single weapon, so we are able to improve our casting and melee at the same time. (However, an argument could be made for minimizing Charisma in favor of Strength given that we will mostly be using saveless spells, and dual wielding is a bit more thematic. If we go that path we would simply set our Strength to 16 and Charisma to 13 and use ASIs on Strength. Also, it might be good to dip into Fighter for one level to get Two Weapon Fighting style.)
Once again we take Rogue first in order to get Expertise in Stealth. This is especially important for us since we can’t afford to improve Dexterity until very late, and a sneaky assassin who is constantly spotted before he gets into position isn’t really a sneaky assassin at all.
Next it’s straight to Hexblade for the aforementioned Hex Warrior and Hexblade’s Curse, effectively a concentration-less Hex which also increases our crit range.
Devil’s Sight/Darkness allows us to consistently get Sneak Attacks, and just generally improves our damage, though a bit thematically suspect given that there’s nothing similar in the Elder Scrolls games.
Pact of the Blade adds flavor in the form of a conjured weapon, and enables key Invocations later on.
Thirsting Blade gives us a second attack with our pact weapon
Eldritch Smite gives us a huge spike in burst damage by letting us burn a warlock slot for 4d8 damage when we land an attack.
After that we just try to get our next ASI as soon as possible. Going farther into Rogue allows us to pick up Arcane Trickster which gives us non-warlock slots to use for spells, and Mage Hand Legerdemain which lets us perform very thematic telekinetic trickery.
Staying in Warlock gives us Accursed Spectre, which is very flavorful for us, and 4th level spell slots. If we continue at least one more level we upgrade to 5th level slots and max out the damage Eldritch Smite can do in a single turn.

This build has decent sustained damage, high burst damage which spikes very hard at level 6, decent stealth, and spell based flexibility.

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Walks-In-Shadow
Swashbuckler/Gloom Stalker/Battlemaster
16/14/14/8/13/9

Rog 1 Putting Expertise into Stealth, and Thieves’ Tools
Rgr 1-5 Picking up Two Weapon Fighting style, Hunter’s Mark, Pass Without Trace, and +2 Strength via ASI.
Ftr 1-4 Getting Duelist Fighting Style, Riposte, Precision Attack, and one other maneuver, proficiency in Alchemist’s Tools, and taking +2 Str for our ASI
Rog 2... Go Swashbuckler and start increasing our Dex.

This build is pretty similar to the first, but due to needing to have a 13 Wis for multiclassing we can’t afford to level Str and Dex at the same time with our first ASI, so we don’t end up improving Dex at all until level 14.
I talked about the Rogue and Fighter features a lot in the first build, so I won’t rehash them.
Ranger gives us a fighting style, ASI, and Extra Attack, and Gloom Stalker gives us Umbral Sight which gives us darkvision, and makes us invisible to others relying on darkvision to see us, and Dread Ambusher which grants us an extra attack with bonus damage in the first round of combat as part of our attack action resulting in a huge increase in our burst damage. Dread Ambusher synergizes incredibly well with Action Surge because the extra attack is part of the attack action, and so we can benefit from it twice resulting in six attacks in the first round of combat at level 8. Taking the Duelist fighting style from Fighter means that if we attack with a single one handed weapon in the first round, we get the +2 to damage on every attack, and we can use our bonus action for Hunter’s Mark which will give us another 1d6 on every attack. We can then go back to dual wielding for the remainder of the fight.

This build decent sustained damage, very high burst damage starting at level 4 and leveling out a bit at level 8, decent stealth (great with Pass Without Trace), and some spell utility.

So which do you prefer? Do you see any obvious flaws, or room for improvement? How well do you think these represent the theme?

Aett_Thorn
2018-04-04, 09:35 AM
Shadowscales, in the Elder Scrolls lore, are members of the lizard race Argonians who are born under the astrological sign of the Shadow, and presented to the Dark Brotherhood guild of assassins for training and service.

I enjoy playing Argonians, specifically assassin-types, in Elder Scrolls games, so I thought I would try my hand at adapting the lore/playstyle for D&D 5e.

Race
Black Dragonborn. The dark skin fits with the shadow theme, and like Argonians black dragons are native to swamps. Lizardfolk are thematically, and mechanically more similar to Argonians, but monster races aren’t allowed.

Just a point of curiosity here, but Lizardfolk aren't considered to be "monster races" in Volo's Guide. Or are you just not allowed to use any of the non-PHB races?


Playstyle
In the Elder Scrolls games, especially Skyrim, one of the most effective tools for assassination was sneak attacking. If you snuck up on someone and stabbed them with a one handed weapon you could do absurd damage with a single hit, and almost certainly kill your opponent. This concept doesn’t really translate that well to D&D 5e given the peculiarity of the way it handles the idea of a player trying to sneak up on and stab an opponent. However, volumes have been written on that particular subject, and I have no wish to reproduce them here. Suffice to say, dealing large amounts of damage with a melee weapon in a single turn is a bit more complicated than just getting the Sneak Attack class feature. As a result these builds try to replicate the playstyle of sneaking up on and dealing a large burst of damage to a character in a way that is both thematically and mechanically effective.

I would think that the Assassin sub-class of Rogue would fit exactly this type of playstyle, and is effective if you can pull it off. It's just hard to do while in a team setting, as opposed to more single-player games.

The Jack
2018-04-04, 09:42 AM
In general, argonians are all for that sneaky-stabby-illusionist build. I'd consider myself someone who's pretty heavily into the lore of TES (Skyrim upsets me for trashing most of it) but if you take gameplay aside; In lore the Argonian race are guerrilla fighters with domain they've well adapted for.

And you're asking for an assassin with the whole shadowscale thing. Yeah, that's fine, but it's really only "just be more argonian than the average argonian"


So, Fey warlock for the illusions. Perhaps the great old one. Your patron should be a hist tree. If you really wanna do the whole shadowscale- sithis thing, I guess hexblade might be ok. But note you're playing a bad dude if you do.
Otherwise I'd recomend Rogue, either AT or Assassin. AT for the illusions, Assassin for the poison and assassinate. If you pick the latter, perhaps some fighter or barbarian multiclassing. Of course, you could just straight be a Dex barb/figher, though you kinda need the athletics for the swimming so...
I would strongly suggest the magic initiate feat.
A druid would be cool, even if transformation really hasn't been a thing since TES II.
As a follower of Sithis, you could justify a death cleric.

Racially I suggest you Re-skin the triton (unless your issue with monster races is more a thing of volo's) Green dragon might be better than black, given argonians are resistant to poison not acid.

banthafett
2018-04-04, 09:49 AM
...are you just not allowed to use any of the non-PHB races? I would think that the Assassin sub-class of Rogue would fit exactly this type of playstyle
Non-PHB races are not allowed. I edited the OP to clarify
Regarding the Assassin sub-class... I really don't like it. The critical hit feature is very hard to set up without very good initiative, which this character will struggle with given that his Dex will always be lacking. For that same reason, ASIs are very dear, and using one for the Alert feat would put him even farther behind in other aspects. On top of that the other features of the class are difficult to use in an actual game, and don't mesh well thematically given that this character isn't about bluffing his way in the front door, but avoiding being seen entirely.

banthafett
2018-04-04, 01:04 PM
If you really wanna do the whole shadowscale- sithis thing, I guess hexblade might be ok. But note you're playing a bad dude if you do.
Otherwise I'd recomend Rogue, either AT or Assassin. AT for the illusions, Assassin for the poison and assassinate.
I would strongly suggest the magic initiate feat.
A druid would be cool, even if transformation really hasn't been a thing since TES II.
As a follower of Sithis, you could justify a death cleric.
Green dragon might be better than black, given argonians are resistant to poison not acid.
This thread is about translating the concept of a Shadowscale specifically into D&D which includes the lore aspects such as being an assassin in service to a guild which serves an entity closely associated with death.

I am very reticent to take feats because it slows down the already slow ability score progression of this character. Furthermore, unlike a variant human, the earliest I would be able to get the feat would be level four by which point I could already have magic from a class if it was important to the character.

Druid has some attractive features, but, as you pointed out, shapeshifting outside of vampirism and lycanthropy hasn't been a thing in the last three Elder Scrolls games and so is pretty far removed from my experience of the series.

I had not considered Death Cleric. Touch of Death would certainly provide some good burst damage, but I don't know that it is worth the opportunity cost given that the rest of the Cleric class doesn't support the concept very well.

You make a good point about Green Dragonborn. I had forgotten about Argonian poison resistance, and was mostly focused on habitat. Green dragons do also sometimes dwell in marshy forests which would support the theme.

The Jack
2018-04-04, 02:00 PM
Well, I believe the design philosophy of TES (maybe less so skyrim with that awful perk system) is that you can be fantastic at everything with enough effort and totally should multiclass. It really opposes the DnD class system where taking four levels of fighter will forever cap your wizardly ability and prevent you from taking the highest of spells. In TES, being a master spellcaster means you might as well learn how to fight with your own physique (and you'll have plenty of enhancements to boost your efforts). Hell, a TES character probably more fits the sheet of someone in the storyteller system used in WoD than it does DnD. You could make a custom race no problem, but the classes don't work for a TES inspired character


Also you're totally looking at Assassin wrong. You sneak attack from stealth, you hit them for advantage an auto crit, you don't need to worry about initiative. Also; Poison.

A Fat Dragon
2018-04-04, 02:15 PM
I would say Assassin X/EK 5. Personally, I would say Battlemaster 5, but if you really want Illusion Magic, then grabbing EK will give you an alright amount. Not to mention he Multi-Attack from Fighter, and the nice little side-perks as well. For Expertise, take Stealth, Deception, Perception, and Insight.

If you’re going EK, Build Dex > Int > Wis > Cha > Con > Str.

If you are going something other than EL, go Dex > Wis > Con > Cha > Str > Int (Feel free to swap the last two as you will.


For leveling purposes, take Fighter first, for proficiencies, and then take Rogue next three levels. At level 5, take another level in fighter, and continue with fighter until you reach level 8. By then, you should be Rogue 3/Fighter 5. For Fighting Styles, take Two-Weapon Fighting(Or Dueling), and/or Archery. However, the choice of fighting styles really is a choice of your play-style/vision.
Now that you’re level 8, take Rogue the rest of the way. If you’re willing to grab Feats, Alert is a must have (No exceptions. You grab this Feat, or you will feel the pain of not having it), and grabbing Skulker and Sharpshooter is a solid option if you’re going sneaky-sniper, though if you’re going to be more melee-based, grabbing Mobile, and Duel-Wielder is solid (Though, only grab D-W if you took the Two-Weapon fighting style).

That’s about it as my recommendation. I would suggest taking something that has DarkVision (I don’t believe Dragonborn do), but if you are stalwart on choosing Dragonborn, then you’ll find a way to make it work.

banthafett
2018-04-04, 02:37 PM
Also you're totally looking at Assassin wrong. You sneak attack from stealth, you hit them for advantage an auto crit, you don't need to worry about initiative.

The Assassinate feature requires that the opponent be surprised when you attack them.


If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends.

They are no longer considered surprised once they have taken their first turn in combat. So, if you surprise them and they beat you in initiative, then they take their first turn and are no longer surprised. Then you take your turn and cannot use the Assassinate feature because your opponent is no longer surprised. Therefore, it is critical to have a very high initiative bonus so that you can reliably go first in combat, because otherwise the key feature of your subclass cannot be used.

Consequently I do not like the Assassin subclass in general, because it is unreliable, and for this character in particular because he will have substandard initiative and will not be able to boost it.