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View Full Version : Pathfinder Need help toning down a vigilante



Labelos
2018-04-04, 07:44 PM
I'm playing a level 6 vigilante in a relatively low op group and I picked lethal grace, vital punishment and up close and personal. I'm out damaging my team pretty seriously, and I want to stall my damage for a bit for my team to catch up, and diversify. We're playing 1st party, but I talked my DM into allowing Akashic mysteries, but I'm waffling between Vizier or retraining a bit and trading 2-4 levels of eclipse, from the "city of 7 seraphs" kickstarter.

The eclipse would keep me more skill monkey-ish, but the vizier is more front loaded.

I need help deciding what to do to keep my character fun and interesting to play, while not overpowering my teammates. Any suggestions?

Ssalarn
2018-04-04, 10:38 PM
I'm playing a level 6 vigilante in a relatively low op group and I picked lethal grace, vital punishment and up close and personal. I'm out damaging my team pretty seriously, and I want to stall my damage for a bit for my team to catch up, and diversify. We're playing 1st party, but I talked my DM into allowing Akashic mysteries, but I'm waffling between Vizier or retraining a bit and trading 2-4 levels of eclipse, from the "city of 7 seraphs" kickstarter.

The eclipse would keep me more skill monkey-ish, but the vizier is more front loaded.

I need help deciding what to do to keep my character fun and interesting to play, while not overpowering my teammates. Any suggestions?

Are you running Avenger or Stalker (or something else)?
As you noted, eclipse will keep your skills strong, and it's a class where its power is tight with its progression since it has a very class feature reliant structure, so in a low op group that should tone down your raw damage while leaving you a lot of functionality. Vizier has some very powerful options and a pretty quick progression, and it multiclasses much more effectively than eclipse, so if you're looking to tone down your power level that may not do it unless you intentionally focus on defensive and utility veils, or if you're a stalker vigilante and you've given up enough BAB that using veilweaver level will still leave you swinging low with weapon-like veils and veil effects.
So, probably multiclassing eclipse/vigilante will do a better job of getting you where you want to be at with your group, since both classes prefer a single-classed progression but still have reasonable synergy.

exelsisxax
2018-04-05, 09:46 AM
I'm playing a level 6 vigilante in a relatively low op group and I picked lethal grace, vital punishment and up close and personal. I'm out damaging my team pretty seriously, and I want to stall my damage for a bit for my team to catch up, and diversify. We're playing 1st party, but I talked my DM into allowing Akashic mysteries, but I'm waffling between Vizier or retraining a bit and trading 2-4 levels of eclipse, from the "city of 7 seraphs" kickstarter.

The eclipse would keep me more skill monkey-ish, but the vizier is more front loaded.

I need help deciding what to do to keep my character fun and interesting to play, while not overpowering my teammates. Any suggestions?

What's the rest of the party, in enough detail that we know why they are being overshadowed?

Labelos
2018-04-05, 05:14 PM
The group:

1- A dwarven fighter - Siege breaker archetype - with, I believe, Dodge, combat expertise, cleave and power attack.Full plate mail, waraxe, classic. trying for Dwarven defender.
2- A halfling chivalry archer inquisitor whom I've never seen use a judgement. The least experienced player. Rapid shot, point-blank, precise shot?
3- A vanilla human magus in a full plate mail. The 25% ASF hurts him a lot.
4- A healer aasimar warpriest.
5- Drop dead studio's The Artisan. He's the most experienced player in the group and wanted to play a support role.
6- Me, playing a stalker vigilante.

exelsisxax
2018-04-05, 05:30 PM
The group:

1- A dwarven fighter - Siege breaker archetype - with, I believe, Dodge, combat expertise, cleave and power attack.Full plate mail, waraxe, classic. trying for Dwarven defender.
2- A halfling chivalry archer inquisitor whom I've never seen use a judgement. The least experienced player. Rapid shot, point-blank, precise shot?
3- A vanilla human magus in a full plate mail. The 25% ASF hurts him a lot.
4- A healer aasimar warpriest.
5- Drop dead studio's The Artisan. He's the most experienced player in the group and wanted to play a support role.
6- Me, playing a stalker vigilante.

Welp, that really drives home why you were overshadowing them by mere competence. You need to fix your party - it doesn't matter if you randomly reassign all your class levels, if you simply use your class features you will still have too much of a leg up.

Point the dwarf towards shield slam so he can attack->bull rush->overrun chain. Doesn't look horrible though.
Help your inquisitor play the game. Look over their character sheet, help them pick spells, make sure they know how everything works. As described, this is a major problem.
Request that your magus stop being an idiot, with an explanation of how he is being an idiot and how he can stop hobbling himself because light armor exists. Also, plate has a 35% ASF.
Is the warpriest suffering from the delusion that he is a healer? Disabuse him of that notion, help him do something useful.

Geddy2112
2018-04-06, 01:28 PM
Right off the bat, you have a very strong build for vigilante and will do a lot of damage. Your best option going forward is to sandbag your talents, by picking utility ones(darkvision and low light vision, climb speed) or defensive ones(uncanny dodge, evasion). What do you do on the social side? You are basically the party skillmonkey, so ensure the other players have complimentary roles and focus on ones only you can do. It is not all about damage, although the new players might not see that.

As for your group:

Dwarven defender and siege breaker are somewhat at odds with each other, being one moves a lot and the other not at all. Still a fighter with a big weapon and power attack/cleave should be fine.
Archer inquisitors are not terrible, but if they are not using their spells/judgements, then yes. They have a lot of overlapping social skills, but they should be able to cover things you cannot, or do them better.
Second getting the magus out of full plate until they are high enough level to do that. Being an arcane caster, they have a lot of options nobody else does.
The aasimar can heal as a secondary role, but get them casting. The thing is, warpriests that are casters(and have positive energy) are not strong damage dealers, so they just won't beat out a more dedicated martial character. Unless they are not a caster, in which case they should keep pace fine. Make sure they are actually buffing with fervor and not healing.

Labelos
2018-04-09, 07:03 PM
Thanks for your help. I went with the eclispe and had lots of fun spidermanning around.

I spoke with the warpriest and made him read his abilities and I think he sees what he needs to do with his swift casts.

The inquisitor tried her judgements and is really trying, but i think that she won't remember her abilities as long as we don't let her think by herself a bit.

The magus did work, last game, even with his plate mail. I checked, it's mithral, so its 25% asf.

The fighter got entangle and rolled 3's to escape a game, so he was a bit frustrated, but bad rolls happen. We suggested he go into superior bullrush to push enemies into AoO, because he's very far from any decent form of shield bashing. I'll pass on your suggestion anyway, thanks.