I have a Genius (Crazy) Idea (Plan which I'm knee-deep in making)

[VeroChampion]

Okay, I'm either some sort of Maniacle and Crazy DM or I've stumbled upon probably the greatest encounter of my entire DM carrier. We'll start with backstory and end with the execution of the plan... but first, let's get the idea out in the open.

I'm going to run two campaigns which take place in the same world and same city BUT have two separate parties with two separate goals. Eventually, these PCs will either fight or talk or something in a combined session.

Alright, So in this homebrewed world of mine I have a group of protectors known as the "Alchemical and Arcane Repossession Agency". (Think Warehouse 13, Fringe, SCP Foundation, etc.) There are two of these players and they simply wander the city looking for illegal or suspicious activity related to Magic or Alchemy. It's basically a campaign full of small drug bust type one-shots and crazy government secrets which go horribly wrong. This is Party number 1.

In the world, there is a homebrewed race known as a "Nixling". A Nixling is a construct which, by the power of a synthetic arcane gem, gains sentience and a human form. These creatures were once part of a study done by the leading Duke of Sciences but escaped after a cataclysmic explosion of some sort. Nixling's now live around the world as a secret type of creature running from the researchers which want to use them as weapons.

If you can't see where this is going then I'll spell it out for you. The two officers of the law will eventually gain knowledge of some arcane creature running around the city and then track him down, resulting in a PC v PC showdown. The two arcane officers (and maybe 2 NPC characters to balance) versus the other party of 5. What could go wrong? right?

That's what I need you to do for me. Make things go wrong. The only rules are
1. Arcane enforcers are using nonlethal force
2. both teams are equally leveled (milestones baby)
3. The arcane enforcers do not mind character death

I mean is there anything wrong with this plan? Any ideas on how to make it run smooth? Advice or Questions? Am I crazy or will this work?

[DMThac0]

The world I created has guild battles on an annual rotation to find the strongest, smartest and luckiest guild in the land.

Read: I have more than one group playing in this world and want to create pvp conflict.

How do you make this work? You put them at the table together and go.


The biggest thing here is foreshadowing, you have to give both groups the information necessary to know that there is going to be some sort of climactic showdown coming and they need to be ready for it. Use small quests to allude to something more, use NPCs small talk to drop hints, and use information about each group inside the other group's session.

Have the AARA find documentation about the Nixling. Have them track this information to a lab where they were being created. Inside this lab have them accidentally reanimate a Nixling and fight it. Be sure to make it a challenging fight, this way when they meet the PC versions they have an idea that this might be difficult.

Have your Nixlings start a mini-arc of having to evade some AARA. At some point in time they're forced into a corner and need to fight back. One of the AARA escapes, and now you've foreshadowed that the cavalry will be coming.

Then set up a weekend to host both groups in one place and have fun adjudicating some PvP crazieness.

[Emay Ecks]

I've found any time I've come into a game with any sort of expectation, the players will find a way to subvert them. So unless you take away player agency, things probably won't work out like you're planning.
Here are some of my thoughts about possible issues with your plan:

1. PCs tend to be loud, odd, and noteworthy. The odds of two player parties being in the same city and not hearing anything about the exploits of the other are nonexistent. The AARA are gonna hear about 5 arcane things and their insane antics, and the 5 arcane things will probably hear about 2 super sleuths. So the encounter between the two groups will either occur sooner than you intend ("Hey guys, lets assassinate the super sleuths now before they learn about us"), is planned to take place pretty much right away (lessening the big reveal), or involves you withholding info from PCs.

2. IRL complications. Lets say some of your players are out sick one week. They're now a week behind the other party. Do you delay the other group's advancement by a week to compensate? What kind of extra planning does that entail? What happens if all the players can't make the same time because it'd be a different time than they're used to meeting?

3. PCs tend to be clever, and often successful. If the fugitive players are very knowledgeable about in game mechanics, they can make being pursued/tracked near impossible. Nondetection, Pass without Trace, and other effects can make it so the AARA players stand no chance of tracking them unless you literally hand them the encounter on a platter.

4. Should all the above miraculously not be an issue and the fight occurs, regardless of the results, nobody wins. If both parties fight and one wins, what do the losers do? ("Thanks for showing up for a single combat encounter that you lost, now that you're dead I'm gonna run the other group's session, you can go home now") What happens if one side immediately retreats? How is tactical combat going to work if the players would be communicating right in front of their opponents? The only winning scenario is if both groups talk it out (anticlimactic) and resolve their issues. But then they're probably not going to bump into each other again as it will be hard to get everyone together again IRL.

I really just don't see it working out, though if you could prove me wrong I would be impressed.

[VeroChampion]

Have the AARA find documentation about the Nixling. Have them track this information to a lab where they were being created. Inside this lab have them accidentally reanimate a Nixling and fight it. Be sure to make it a challenging fight, this way when they meet the PC versions they have an idea that this might be difficult.


I've been working on droppping hints for the AARA to follow but haven't thought of a way for them to deem the Nixling a "threat". This idea will make perfect sense AND will be a good way of helping them follow the path to the battle. To the same degree the Nixlings are already avoid the officers and their containment devices (MechHunter things), and they love doing it as well.



4. Should all the above miraculously not be an issue and the fight occurs, regardless of the results, nobody wins. If both parties fight and one wins, what do the losers do? ("Thanks for showing up for a single combat encounter that you lost, now that you're dead I'm gonna run the other group's session, you can go home now") What happens if one side immediately retreats? How is tactical combat going to work if the players would be communicating right in front of their opponents? The only winning scenario is if both groups talk it out (anticlimactic) and resolve their issues. But then they're probably not going to bump into each other again as it will be hard to get everyone together again IRL.


All of your points are good but this one is the best. While 1,2, and 3 can be simple fixes (both parties are good and laws against magical concealment are present, I made a system for level gain/progression in this, and both campaigns are moderatly quarintined to themselves (my DM friend/player character actually gave me an idea how), etc.) number 4 is something I hadn't really thought about. Combat can go for AGES so I figured that it would be the meaty part of a session, but also what happens if it runs short? To that same degree, you brought up the idea of combat planning. Maybe that won't really affect the fight but I can't be sure (never done this before). It could hamper the players but I haven't a clue. Any ideas on how I can fool proof this?

[DMThac0]

4. Should all the above miraculously not be an issue and the fight occurs, regardless of the results, nobody wins. If both parties fight and one wins, what do the losers do? ("Thanks for showing up for a single combat encounter that you lost, now that you're dead I'm gonna run the other group's session, you can go home now") What happens if one side immediately retreats? How is tactical combat going to work if the players would be communicating right in front of their opponents? The only winning scenario is if both groups talk it out (anticlimactic) and resolve their issues. But then they're probably not going to bump into each other again as it will be hard to get everyone together again IRL.


Too true, too true. Once you present a situation where there is a "game over screen" then one team will undoubtedly go home upset. The guild battles I pull off allow both teams to meet up and wander off with no permanent results outside of a scoreboard. The good news for VeroChampion is: there doesn't need to be a "game over screen"!



That's what I need you to do for me. Make things go wrong. The only rules are
1. Arcane enforcers are using nonlethal force
2. both teams are equally leveled (milestones baby)
3. The arcane enforcers do not mind character death


It's this that makes everything possible. First and foremost permanent player death is not going to be allowed, this solves the possibility of one type of sour ending for the AARA players. Secondly, and in my opinion a must, the goal of this combat is not about who wins, but what happens after a winner is declared. I strongly believe that this would be a perfect opportunity to present a plot hook that involve both parties approaching a resolution to. This would invite more cooperative sessions, it will allow you to create a rich and grandiose story arc, and could even tie a moral undercurrent to the politics and social dynamic of the rest of your game.

[Emay Ecks]

All of your points are good but this one is the best. While 1,2, and 3 can be simple fixes (both parties are good and laws against magical concealment are present, I made a system for level gain/progression in this, and both campaigns are moderatly quarintined to themselves (my DM friend/player character actually gave me an idea how), etc.) number 4 is something I hadn't really thought about. Combat can go for AGES so I figured that it would be the meaty part of a session, but also what happens if it runs short? To that same degree, you brought up the idea of combat planning. Maybe that won't really affect the fight but I can't be sure (never done this before). It could hamper the players but I haven't a clue. Any ideas on how I can fool proof this?


Too true, too true. Once you present a situation where there is a "game over screen" then one team will undoubtedly go home upset. The good news for VeroChampion is: there doesn't need to be a "game over screen"!

It's this that makes everything possible. First and foremost permanent player death is not going to be allowed, this solves the possibility of one type of sour ending for the AARA players. Secondly, and in my opinion a must, the goal of this combat is not about who wins, but what happens after a winner is declared. I strongly believe that this would be a perfect opportunity to present a plot hook that involve both parties approaching a resolution to. This would invite more cooperative sessions, it will allow you to create a rich and grandiose story arc, and could even tie a moral undercurrent to the politics and social dynamic of the rest of your game.

I strongly agree with Therverian. Planning a joint quest after the combat with both parties teaming up against a third threat could be fun. One way to make the combat itself more exciting is to have both parties fight over an objective where they might not be directly trying to murder each other. If both parties meet and try to kill the evil sorcerer who stole the magic jewels, one to claim the jewels for themselves, one to capture the bad guy, they both have that competitive combat encounter, but no risk of death at each other's hands.

[MadBear]

Assuming both parties don't try and kill each other, and instead are just fighting to either escape/uphold the law, you can always pull a TV move where you subvert the narrative.

While I'm not sure exactly how to do this well if the nixlings "win", I do have a fair idea for how to create an interesting scenario for what happens if the sleuths win.

As the Sleuth's are taking the constructs to prison (or wherever), some other law enforcement officials come to try and murder the constructs (obviously outside of normal lawful procedure). The Sleuth's are put in a bad situation of watching other officials do something awful, or becoming outlaws themselves if they help. Turns out some higher ups in the law don't want to risk these constructs speaking out over something they must have seen. The two parties can branch out or work together against a common foe (for the time being at least).

[VeroChampion]

If both parties meet and try to kill the evil sorcerer who stole the magic jewels, one to claim the jewels for themselves, one to capture the bad guy, they both have that competitive combat encounter, but no risk of death at each other's hands.



The two parties can branch out or work together against a common foe (for the time being at least).

A perfect storm for a duo encounter! Currently, there is a Necromancer in the city (which both parties are aware of but ignore) who is after the power of the Nixlings and the end of the civilized world. Players have a large encounter where they end up almost (one or two rounds short of resolving) beating each other when suddenly...

*Bum Bum BUUMMMMM*

Small time necromancer appears with a couple of undead servants. They steal some gems (Nixlings are collecting them as their main quest sort of) and make off. The AARA players are given one quest which if they fail makes the Nixlings recovery of the gems a much harder encounter. After the encounter they start a parallel story arc without being at the same table. This makes three things work out:
1. The Nixlings goal of eventual civil freedom one step closer
2. the AARA now have a bigger threat to focus on and using vigilantes (while not the cleanest decision) is the move which will save the most lives
3. The Players can come away from the fight with a weird Love/Hate thing which may bring the possibility of a Co-Op session or something...


This idea could work realllllly well... Or it can crash and burn super hardcore. I'm excited to see how it happens! And keep the Critiques and Ideas coming, I really find this helpful and I wanna make this idea work!