Polymorph Gish Builds?

[magicalmagicman]

I don't really care about spellcasting. I just want to be a beater who just polymorphs into an awesome creature and lays waste to everything.

Master of Many Forms caught my eye, but I don't like roleplaying druids so... seeing if there are alternatives.

Psionics's power point system lets me cast a crazy amount of polymorphs as soon as I hit level 7, but I'm new to psionics so I have no idea how to follow up, which PrCs continues progression with an increased BAB, etc.

DMM:Persist Shapechange is acquired way too late.

Alter Self is a good start, but I eventually want to graduate. An Alter Self Sorcerer that later grabs Polymorph and then goes eldritch knight and abjurant champion might qualify... not sure.

I just want an at-will polymorph with full BAB or at least 3/4 BAB. Everything else can be sacrificed.

[A.A.King]

Master of Many Forms really is your best bet if you want to play somebody who fights by changing appearance, you don't even have to be a druid for it. Variant Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm) (just scroll down) trades away the Ranger Combat style for Wild Shape, it won't improve the way a Druid's those but that's only if you keep advancing as a Ranger, if you use it to enter Master of Many forms that little detail won't be an issue.

So yes, you can play a somebody who transforms without the roleplaying implications of a druid. It's also balanced by the fact that you don't have the spellcasting other options offer. A wizard or Psion, even one heavily focused on transforming/polymoprhing, will always also be a high level caster and therefor quite powerful outside of your desired combat tactic (which is why the Polymorph spell is often banned for being too OP)

[Arkain]

You could try the Master Transmogrifist, who basically specializes in Polymorph and can eventually turn into completely made up creature combinations like a troll with hydra heads. There's even a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?450678-Be-the-Wizard-Who-Did-It-Master-Transmogrifist-Handbook). Not exactly a "gish" in the truest sense due to low BAB, but season with Abjurant Champion and you should be good. Unfortunately, taking the entire class costs you 9th level spells.

[Eldariel]

Just a simple Incantatrix Wizard with Arcane Disciple: War or such for Divine Power. Can have all-day Polymorph from level 8. Spelldancer could get it level 7 if you use a means to gain access to Perform as a class skill. Transmuter Wizard could use the Spell Versatility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#spellVersatility)-variant to treat Divine Power as a Transmutation to qualify for spelldancer. Let me see...

Wizard 4/Master Specialist 1/Spelldancer 1/Wizard +1 would be able to do it if you can finangle the feats; Human/Strongheart Halfling with 2 Flaws gets 6 feats by then and Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) would trade Scribe Scroll for a useful feat. This would net you:
Human. Combat Casting
Flaw. Extend Spell
Flaw. Mobility
Wizard 1. Dodge
1. Endurance
3. Persistent Spell
6. Arcane Disciple: War/Competition/Orc

However, we also need Spell Focus: Transmutation to take Master Specialist to push Wizard 5 to 7 and some way to add Perform to your class list... Mobility you could get off the Mobile armor special ability on an e.g. Feycraft Mithril Shirt (0% ACF), which would free up one more feat. Perform you can get with Apprentice: Entertainer [DMGII]. That's one feat too far, but we can get Persistent Spell off Metamagic Storm magical location [Complete Mage].

Total:
Human. Apprentice: Entertainer
Flaw. Spell Focus: Transmutation
Flaw. Arcane Disciple: War/Competition/Orc
Wizard 1. Dodge
1. Combat Casting
3. Endurance
[5. Mobility Armor bought - about your whole WBL]
6. Extend Spell
[6. Metamagic Storm visited]

Dark Chaos Shuffle could do make it easier, but this is the earliest "fair" approach, giving you full BAB and all-day Polymorph (with a lot of uses of Polymorph, all of them all-day) on level 7 and all-day Alter Self on 6. Hm, probably easier to just use Incantatrix and wait until level 8; this would also make it easier to switch form in combat using Polymorph as you wouldn't have to dance for 6 rounds to cast the all-day Polymorphs. You could obviously go Focused Specialist and max Int (to the point that you can start Old or Venerable) granting you 4-5 level 4 spells on ECL 7 (1 base, +2 Master Specialist, +1-2 Int).


Additional feats of course include ones that enhance Polymorphing such as Assume Supernatural Ability and Greater [Savage Species], any of the monstrous combat feats, etc. I can't think of an easy way to get the Extraordinaries of your Polymorph forms - Master Transmogrifist is your best bet - and you'd need to jump through some hoops for Outsider/Undead/Construct forms (basically, you need to have the type for those to be on your list so you'd have to use another spell to assume such a form first), but that seems about the closest to what you want. Oh, and obviously you should enter Master Transmogrifist ASAP and just take Practiced Spellcaster to ensure you have access to full caster level Polymorph for maximised number of forms (also consider Reserves of Strength [Dragonlance Campaign Settings] to up the limit to 18 HD; combine with some way to buff your HD [e.g. Inspire Greatness cohort or Awaken + Polymorph loop] and caster level for early access to new forms).

[Kurald Galain]

Bloodrager is a good choice for this.

[Anthrowhale]

Be a Changeling Cleric taking the Transformation domain with the spontaneous domain casting ACF.

[Piggy Knowles]

Depending on starting level, a warblade or crusader with levels in Suel Arcanamach and Jade Phoenix Mage can work well here. Crusader 6/Suel Arcanamach 2/JPM 10/Crusader +2 gets +19 BAB and 19th level initiating as well as full Suel casting, and (among other things) you can get alter self at ECL 8, polymorph at ECL 13 and draconic polymorph at ECL 16.

[Troacctid]

The main full BAB psionic class is Illithid Slayer (or its non-proprietary equivalent, Slayer). There's also Sanctified Mind and Storm Disciple, plus some gishy 3/4 BAB classes like Elocater and Iron Mind. You'd most likely want to use Ardent as your entry class because it has better BAB than a Psion while still having the fastest manifesting progression. It also lets you paper over your lost manifester levels more effectively.

The Metamorphic Transfer feat is quite powerful, which is a big advantage for psionics. And you can manifest all your powers normally in your new form without any problems, since psionic powers don't have any fiddly verbal or somatic components to worry about.

[Zombulian]

I don't really care about spellcasting. I just want to be a beater who just polymorphs into an awesome creature and lays waste to everything.

Master of Many Forms caught my eye, but I don't like roleplaying druids so... seeing if there are alternatives.

Psionics's power point system lets me cast a crazy amount of polymorphs as soon as I hit level 7, but I'm new to psionics so I have no idea how to follow up, which PrCs continues progression with an increased BAB, etc.

DMM:Persist Shapechange is acquired way too late.

Alter Self is a good start, but I eventually want to graduate. An Alter Self Sorcerer that later grabs Polymorph and then goes eldritch knight and abjurant champion might qualify... not sure.

I just want an at-will polymorph with full BAB or at least 3/4 BAB. Everything else can be sacrificed.


Master of Many Forms really is your best bet if you want to play somebody who fights by changing appearance, you don't even have to be a druid for it. Variant Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm) (just scroll down) trades away the Ranger Combat style for Wild Shape, it won't improve the way a Druid's those but that's only if you keep advancing as a Ranger, if you use it to enter Master of Many forms that little detail won't be an issue.

So yes, you can play a somebody who transforms without the roleplaying implications of a druid. It's also balanced by the fact that you don't have the spellcasting other options offer. A wizard or Psion, even one heavily focused on transforming/polymoprhing, will always also be a high level caster and therefor quite powerful outside of your desired combat tactic (which is why the Polymorph spell is often banned for being too OP)

I think for your description of wanting to just be a morphing person who whacks people, King's solution is the easiest and most effective.

[magicalmagicman]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I don't want to do something as high powered as using Flaws.

So it's either Ranger Wildshape, Psionic gish, or Sorcerer gish.

Sorcerer has alter self, eldritch knight, abjurant champion for some swift action buffs, and an ungodly amount of spell slots for polymorph.

Ranger Wildshape has master of many forms but no alter self so I'm pretty much grinding through the game until level 5. Also uses unearthed arcana which my DM gets testy with.

Psionic, i gotta learn the whole system, but as I understand it there's no wildshape or alter self so I'm grinding through the game until level 7.

It'll probably be either sorcerer or ranger at this point unless someone gives me a better suggestion.

[Anthrowhale]

I don't think you should so quickly discount the Transformation Domain Cleric with the spontaneous domain ACF. You have 3/4 BAB and spontaneous access to Alter Self at level 3.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Human, Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 5/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Warshaper 4/ Nature's Warrior 1/ MoMF 3
Get Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Multiattack, Frozen Wild Shape, Robilar's Gambit, Improved Multiattack.

You'll want to max Con, and have a decent Wis score. If starting below 6th level you'll also want 14s in Str and Dex. You can wear a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp to add your Wis bonus to your AC, armor with the Wild property still melds with you when wild shaped so even though you still get its armor bonus you'll still benefit from the monk AC bonus. At level 12 you can turn into a War Troll and gain all of its special qualities because all of them are extraordinary. Frozen Wild Shape allows you to turn into a 12-headed Cryohydra (when you have the size/HD available) and Robilar's Gambit allows you to make a 12-headed AoO whenever anyone attacks you in that form.


Alternate build: Human Divine Minion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) of Anhur (LA +1), Fast Movement Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 1/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Warshaper 4/ Nature's Warrior 1/ MoMF 3/ whatever. All your shapechanging comes online from 2nd level (due to the LA), you can wild shape at will as a free action, and keep in mind that you heal as though you rested for a night each time that's used.


In either case consider taking Aberration Wild Shape in Lords of Madness and Assume Supernatural Ability from Savage Species, selecting "eye rays" for that. Turn into any of the Beholder variants, and you'll gain all of that form's supernatural abilities listed under "eye rays" which always includes every one of their eye ray attacks.

[Eldariel]

I don't think you should so quickly discount the Transformation Domain Cleric with the spontaneous domain ACF. You have 3/4 BAB and spontaneous access to Alter Self at level 3.

Aye, this would be my suggestion as well. You can DMM: Persist (though Persist needs DMM: Ocular to work on Polymorph; Draconic Polymorph would work straight out of the gate though but for that you need Spell-domain and Southern Magician or some such) if you feel so inclined but even without it, you have access to spontaneous Alter Self, Polymorph & company and all the Cleric warriory stuff. And you get to fluff it however you want; you're a Cleric of transforming after all so you are quite free in that regard. It's even possible to enter Master Transmogrifist.

[magicalmagicman]

I don't think you should so quickly discount the Transformation Domain Cleric with the spontaneous domain ACF. You have 3/4 BAB and spontaneous access to Alter Self at level 3.

Sorry, I totally forgot about it. Didn't discount it, just forgot about it.

The only qualm I have about it is that this class is just too spellcastery. I can just use alter self and polymorph but ultimately my party is going to request me to prepare this cleric spell, or that cleric spell, and such.

I'll probably go the UA spontaneous divine caster variant if I do choose to go this route just so I'm not a master of everything. This spontaneous caster also gets the spells 1 level earlier than sorcerer, so i really don't see the downside.

However, master of many form's ex special quality acquisition is tempting quite a bit, but so is access to a ton more variety of types from the get go with polymorph.

TBH I was trying to make a Corrin from Fire Emblem, who shapeshifts parts of her body into dragon limbs and ultimately turns into a dragon for powerful attacks.

@Biffoniacus_Furiou gonna take some effort to understand your build, so I'll read it later XP

[Akal Saris]

The shifter is an Eberron race which is basically people descended from were-animals, which might fit the flavor that you'd like, especially if you want to transform starting from 1st level. They have a prestige class, the Weretouched Master, which essentially takes the shifter race and gives the player transformation options to transform like a lyranthrope (were-wolf, etc.).

The Warshaper prestige class can shape a particular limb into a claw or stinger, etc, and is quite good overall in combination with many different transformation options.

I'm fond of Sentinel of Bharrai for a class that gives you the ability to transform into a celestial dire bear.

[magicalmagicman]

The shifter is an Eberron race which is basically people descended from were-animals, which might fit the flavor that you'd like, especially if you want to transform starting from 1st level. They have a prestige class, the Weretouched Master, which essentially takes the shifter race and gives the player transformation options to transform like a lyranthrope (were-wolf, etc.).

The Warshaper prestige class can shape a particular limb into a claw or stinger, etc, and is quite good overall in combination with many different transformation options.

I'm fond of Sentinel of Bharrai for a class that gives you the ability to transform into a celestial dire bear.

Sadly I'm not into animals. Dragons, fiends, angels, that sort of level of epic creatures. Hydras could work, so can golems, but not animals, they're too nonawesome.

[Eldariel]

In that case, Wildshape Ranger with Dragon Wildshape (or sufficient levels in Master of Many Forms) and some levels in Warshaper is the way to go. It does precisely what you're looking for. Though nothing forces you to tell your party members that you're actually a Cleric; and certainly nothing forces you to oblige their requests. You can just prepare self buffs and go to town. There's no rule that says you should prepare party buffs just because you can. Anyone who doesn't play a class capable of it has no right to ask anything of you; if they wanted those party buffs, they could've played those classes themselves. Everyone is free to play their character and concept as they want.

[Troacctid]

If you want Master of Many Forms but you still want shapeshifting powers at level 1, you could use the Totem Druid variant from Dragon #335, which gets wild shape at level 1, but can only turn into a specific totem animal (ape, bear, eagle, horse, shark, snake, tiger, or wolf). An annoying restriction, to be sure, but you get to cleanly bypass it once you make it into Master of Many Forms and unlock new options.

[magicalmagicman]

In that case, Wildshape Ranger with Dragon Wildshape (or sufficient levels in Master of Many Forms) and some levels in Warshaper is the way to go. It does precisely what you're looking for. Though nothing forces you to tell your party members that you're actually a Cleric; and certainly nothing forces you to oblige their requests. You can just prepare self buffs and go to town. There's no rule that says you should prepare party buffs just because you can. Anyone who doesn't play a class capable of it has no right to ask anything of you; if they wanted those party buffs, they could've played those classes themselves. Everyone is free to play their character and concept as they want.

Dragon Wildshape is available at level 12 so...

Gonna go with the spontaneous divine caster cleric from UA until I study the build you suggested.

It's not so much about party buffs, it's more about... not being a wizard. I'm a dragon morphing fighter, and the party turning to me for out of combat restoration, gentle repose, make whole, or some other utility cleric only spell kind of breaks immersion for me.

In any case the spontaneous divine caster rules turns me into a divine sorcerer without the level delay so it's all good.


If you want Master of Many Forms but you still want shapeshifting powers at level 1, you could use the Totem Druid variant from Dragon #335, which gets wild shape at level 1, but can only turn into a specific totem animal (ape, bear, eagle, horse, shark, snake, tiger, or wolf). An annoying restriction, to be sure, but you get to cleanly bypass it once you make it into Master of Many Forms and unlock new options.

Everything that's so tempting is in dragon magazine. Unfortunately that magazine is the forbidden fruit. I can enter master of many forms at level 2 with that feature.

[Eldariel]

Dragon Wildshape is available at level 12 so...

Gonna go with the spontaneous divine caster cleric from UA until I study the build you suggested.

It's not so much about party buffs, it's more about... not being a wizard. I'm a dragon morphing fighter, and the party turning to me for out of combat restoration, gentle repose, make whole, or some other utility cleric only spell kind of breaks immersion for me.

Well, that works. But you could just say you can't/won't cast those, as well. Your party members need not have access to your character sheet. When I play Cleric warriors, I just prepare the warrior spells. If I want to nerf myself, I just decide my Cleric is not willing to cast those spells period.

[Troacctid]

Well, that works. But you could just say you can't/won't cast those, as well. Your party members need not have access to your character sheet. When I play Cleric warriors, I just prepare the warrior spells. If I want to nerf myself, I just decide my Cleric is not willing to cast those spells period.
Spontaneous Cleric is much more efficient for this purpose, though. If you're only going to cast a limited number of spells anyway, having them spontaneously is pure upside.