vermura
2018-04-06, 08:05 AM
So, I just started a new campaign. It's rise of the runelords and the GM had us roll stats 4d6 in order. That did not turn out to be a problem.
Str 14 Int 15 Wis 15 Dex 16 Con 12 Cha 15
No, you cannot change the stats around.
Dex being my highest stat, I decided to go for an unchained Rogue. I actually could have made quite a few other things, but lets focus on unchained rogue. We are starting at level 2.
The other members of the party are currently:
Oracle
Sorceror
Cleric
with 1 spot to fill, hopefully with a martial character.
Although we start at level 2, I'm hoping the game has some legs and runs for a while. Regardless, after I mapped my build out to level 20, just so I didn't find myself making choices I might regret later. It's a bit hazy after level 12, so I'll restrict this post to level 12 for now.
Race: Tiefling. This was originally a flavor choice, and the stat bonuses complement my rogue nicely. As a (normal) Tiefling we now have
S 14 Int 17 Wis 15 Dex 18 Con 12 Cha 13
Very nice for a rogue. Level 4 will be +1 int (and the extra skill points pump into use magic device), everything else dexterity. I have tons of skill points, enough to easily function as both a rogue and a face (Rake just happens to give large bonus to diplomacy and bluff so why not).
Now I'll show all the traits, feats, talents then explain why I made these choices afterwards.
Race Traits: Prehensile Tail, Fiendish Sprinter, Scaly Skin, Darkness spell-like ability (1/day), Darkvision, Native Outsider
Traits: Bred for War (+1 CMB, +1 Intimidate), Giant Harried (+1 to hit with combat maneuvers and +1 CMD vs. opponents larger then you).
Class: All unchained
Rogue Archetypes: Scout, Rake
Level 1: Weapon Finesse (unchained rogue), Combat Reflexes
Level 2: Combat Trick - Exotic Weapon Proficiency Elven Branched Spear
Level 3: Finesse Weapon - Elven branched Spear, Fiendish Darkness (Darkness 3/day).
Level 4: Weapon Training (Focus Elven Branched Spear)
Level 5: Edge: Intimidate, save feat for level 6
Level 6: Unbalancing Trick (Improved Trip, and qualify for Greater Trip), Greater Trip
Level 7: Blinding Sneak Attack
Level 8: Save trick for level 9
Level 9: Improved Two weapon Fighting, Ninja Trick - Spear Dancing Style
Level 10: Opportunist
Level 11: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 12: Double Debilitation
Ok, so, this guy has a lot of funky stuff going on. First of all. The Elven branched spear is a weapon with brace, reach, finesse and has a special of +2 to hit when making attacks of opportunity. Last time I played a low level rogue, I went TWF from the start and those hit penalties made me miss a hell of a lot. At low levels hitting with the spear will be a lot easier, and the base damage is 1.5 * dex from all the unchained rogue bonuses, so sneak or not, the damage is ok for that level. When making AOO, that +2 to hit is going to be great as a lowbie.
Trip
This is an additional tactic that only cost me a trick and a feat and some traits to be quite good at. If I wanted to trip something on an AOO, I get a lot of bonuses: +2 from the spear, +1 from focus, dex to hit, +1(or 2) from traits, +4 from the trip feats and thats before buffs and magical items. It's also before debuffs. Which is where things really start to get nasty.
Fiendish Darkness
I was very happy when I noticed this feat. The alternative was minor magic (a dead feat really) and gloom for the same effect. This is 2 for the price of 1. The reason I wanted it is for....
Blinding Sneak Attack
When you strike from the cover of darkness, you inject foes with a fraction of your foul magic.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +5, darkness spell-like ability, sneak attack class feature, tiefling.
Benefit: When you successfully deal sneak attack damage to a foe while you are within an area of magical darkness, you temporarily blind your opponent for 1 round. A successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + the amount of sneak attack damage dealt) negates this effect.
That is a fairly nice scaling fort save. 4d6 sneak attack at level 7, so average of DC 24. A hill giant has a fort save of +11 and is CR 7, decent chance it will fail. But if it makes it, you can instead use bravado's blade (from rake) to apply shaken and hopefully cruel from your spear to make it sickened. With the additional -4 penalty to its saves, it's probably going to be easy to blind after that.
So ya, even at level 7, we can potentially make an enemy shaken, blind, sickened and apply our choice of rogue debuff. There are many interactions. Pity the fool with no reach. You can give them hampered so they cannot even take a 5' step. They are probably better off doing nothing at all. If they stand up, AOO. Cant 5' step, so move, AOO, trip, prone, AOO. If they have reach, just give them a large penalty to hit, to go with all the others so they don't beat your face in.
Now for getting the initial sneak attack to get things started, we could have surprise, but failing that we have the scout archetype and our friends flanking or maybe they just can't see in your darkness. Once you get a blind on them, then fun never stops. 1 round duration? Same as every round duration till dead.
Spear Dancing Style
And now for bonus funkiness. With this style we can spend a swift action to change our spear from being a reach weapon to a double weapon. I see this being particularly handy if you have an enemy blinded and/or flanked and can full attack. Your very likely to be able to hit them and all will be sneak attacks, so you can change styles and go to town. If you cant full attack, well, thats ok, just use reach tactics till you create an opening in their defenses with blinding sneak attack then move in for the kill.
This combination of reach and TWF as needed should give us good combat flexibility.
I don't generally play games much higher then lvl 12, so after that, who cares? But, if I was, I would definitely take the rogue talent see in darkness. Darkness is then always your friend, even if it's someones deeper darkness.
Final note: This build is really made around the interactions between Darkness, Blinding Sneak Attack, Scout archetype (for ezy sneak attacks). Anything that lowers our BAB and/or sneak attack dice is likely to be detrimental. On the flip side, INCREASING sneak attack damage is a positive, since it will make the blind save harder, giving us more sneak attacks.
e.g. Surprise attack rogue talent, don't quite see where I should put that at the moment.
Str 14 Int 15 Wis 15 Dex 16 Con 12 Cha 15
No, you cannot change the stats around.
Dex being my highest stat, I decided to go for an unchained Rogue. I actually could have made quite a few other things, but lets focus on unchained rogue. We are starting at level 2.
The other members of the party are currently:
Oracle
Sorceror
Cleric
with 1 spot to fill, hopefully with a martial character.
Although we start at level 2, I'm hoping the game has some legs and runs for a while. Regardless, after I mapped my build out to level 20, just so I didn't find myself making choices I might regret later. It's a bit hazy after level 12, so I'll restrict this post to level 12 for now.
Race: Tiefling. This was originally a flavor choice, and the stat bonuses complement my rogue nicely. As a (normal) Tiefling we now have
S 14 Int 17 Wis 15 Dex 18 Con 12 Cha 13
Very nice for a rogue. Level 4 will be +1 int (and the extra skill points pump into use magic device), everything else dexterity. I have tons of skill points, enough to easily function as both a rogue and a face (Rake just happens to give large bonus to diplomacy and bluff so why not).
Now I'll show all the traits, feats, talents then explain why I made these choices afterwards.
Race Traits: Prehensile Tail, Fiendish Sprinter, Scaly Skin, Darkness spell-like ability (1/day), Darkvision, Native Outsider
Traits: Bred for War (+1 CMB, +1 Intimidate), Giant Harried (+1 to hit with combat maneuvers and +1 CMD vs. opponents larger then you).
Class: All unchained
Rogue Archetypes: Scout, Rake
Level 1: Weapon Finesse (unchained rogue), Combat Reflexes
Level 2: Combat Trick - Exotic Weapon Proficiency Elven Branched Spear
Level 3: Finesse Weapon - Elven branched Spear, Fiendish Darkness (Darkness 3/day).
Level 4: Weapon Training (Focus Elven Branched Spear)
Level 5: Edge: Intimidate, save feat for level 6
Level 6: Unbalancing Trick (Improved Trip, and qualify for Greater Trip), Greater Trip
Level 7: Blinding Sneak Attack
Level 8: Save trick for level 9
Level 9: Improved Two weapon Fighting, Ninja Trick - Spear Dancing Style
Level 10: Opportunist
Level 11: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 12: Double Debilitation
Ok, so, this guy has a lot of funky stuff going on. First of all. The Elven branched spear is a weapon with brace, reach, finesse and has a special of +2 to hit when making attacks of opportunity. Last time I played a low level rogue, I went TWF from the start and those hit penalties made me miss a hell of a lot. At low levels hitting with the spear will be a lot easier, and the base damage is 1.5 * dex from all the unchained rogue bonuses, so sneak or not, the damage is ok for that level. When making AOO, that +2 to hit is going to be great as a lowbie.
Trip
This is an additional tactic that only cost me a trick and a feat and some traits to be quite good at. If I wanted to trip something on an AOO, I get a lot of bonuses: +2 from the spear, +1 from focus, dex to hit, +1(or 2) from traits, +4 from the trip feats and thats before buffs and magical items. It's also before debuffs. Which is where things really start to get nasty.
Fiendish Darkness
I was very happy when I noticed this feat. The alternative was minor magic (a dead feat really) and gloom for the same effect. This is 2 for the price of 1. The reason I wanted it is for....
Blinding Sneak Attack
When you strike from the cover of darkness, you inject foes with a fraction of your foul magic.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +5, darkness spell-like ability, sneak attack class feature, tiefling.
Benefit: When you successfully deal sneak attack damage to a foe while you are within an area of magical darkness, you temporarily blind your opponent for 1 round. A successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + the amount of sneak attack damage dealt) negates this effect.
That is a fairly nice scaling fort save. 4d6 sneak attack at level 7, so average of DC 24. A hill giant has a fort save of +11 and is CR 7, decent chance it will fail. But if it makes it, you can instead use bravado's blade (from rake) to apply shaken and hopefully cruel from your spear to make it sickened. With the additional -4 penalty to its saves, it's probably going to be easy to blind after that.
So ya, even at level 7, we can potentially make an enemy shaken, blind, sickened and apply our choice of rogue debuff. There are many interactions. Pity the fool with no reach. You can give them hampered so they cannot even take a 5' step. They are probably better off doing nothing at all. If they stand up, AOO. Cant 5' step, so move, AOO, trip, prone, AOO. If they have reach, just give them a large penalty to hit, to go with all the others so they don't beat your face in.
Now for getting the initial sneak attack to get things started, we could have surprise, but failing that we have the scout archetype and our friends flanking or maybe they just can't see in your darkness. Once you get a blind on them, then fun never stops. 1 round duration? Same as every round duration till dead.
Spear Dancing Style
And now for bonus funkiness. With this style we can spend a swift action to change our spear from being a reach weapon to a double weapon. I see this being particularly handy if you have an enemy blinded and/or flanked and can full attack. Your very likely to be able to hit them and all will be sneak attacks, so you can change styles and go to town. If you cant full attack, well, thats ok, just use reach tactics till you create an opening in their defenses with blinding sneak attack then move in for the kill.
This combination of reach and TWF as needed should give us good combat flexibility.
I don't generally play games much higher then lvl 12, so after that, who cares? But, if I was, I would definitely take the rogue talent see in darkness. Darkness is then always your friend, even if it's someones deeper darkness.
Final note: This build is really made around the interactions between Darkness, Blinding Sneak Attack, Scout archetype (for ezy sneak attacks). Anything that lowers our BAB and/or sneak attack dice is likely to be detrimental. On the flip side, INCREASING sneak attack damage is a positive, since it will make the blind save harder, giving us more sneak attacks.
e.g. Surprise attack rogue talent, don't quite see where I should put that at the moment.