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View Full Version : Rules Q&A Questions regarding Skip-Rock attacks / Boomerang Richochet.



Chestershire
2018-04-06, 10:13 AM
These polished, perfectly weighted stones are prized by halflings, for if thrown properly by a proficient user they ricochet off one target to strike a second. If the skiprock hits its target, it ricochets toward another target of the thrower's choice adjacent to the original target (within 5 feet). The thrower immediately makes a second attack roll, with an attack bonus equal to the first roll's attack bonus -2. Skiprocks can be used as sling bullets, but cannot make ricochet shots when used as ammunition unless thrown from a halfling warsling by a user proficient in both weapons. A skiprock may be drawn as a free action.
You can hurl a Talenta boomerang or Xen'drik boomerang (see page 119 of the EBERRON Campaign Setting) in such a way that it ricochets off one target to strike a second target of your choice. If your initial attack hits, you immediately make a second attack roll at a -2 penalty against any target adjacent to the original target. If the first target is hit by a sneak attack with a boomerang under the effect of this feat, the second target is not also vulnerable to a sneak attack on the ricochet.

How exactly do these interact with

A.) Precision Damage other than Sneak Attack: Skip-Rock essentially does the same thing as Boomerang Ricochet without the explicit statement regarding sneak attack.
I'm just gonna assume it works the same for both for simplicity, but how does it work with skirmish/sudden strike. does "not vulnerable to Sneak Attack" assumed to be precision damage in general or just Sneak Attack exclusively.

B.) Psionic Shot/ Greater Psionic Shot: Since both attacks use the same roll (the second only getting a -2) do both benefit from the +2d6/4d6 damage from psionic shot or does it lose its "Charge" after the first strike?

^ I was being dumb, that's what I get for seeing what I want.
This +1 sling imbues stones launched from it with an explosive charge. When you hit a target with a stone fi red from an explosive sling, the stone explodes, dealing an extra 2d6 points of fi re damage to the target (no save). In addition, each other creature within 10 feet of the target creature when the stone explodes is engulfed in fl ame from the burst of fi re and takes 2d6 points of fi re damage (Refl ex DC 22 negates).
C.) Explosive Sling "assuming it's a Halfling Warsling": Would the explosion trigger twice? (assuming both attacks actually hit.)

Zaq
2018-04-06, 10:27 AM
Regarding precision damage, it might depend on whether you’re full attacking or not. The Rules Compendium ban on applying precision damage multiple times to an attack that isn’t part of a full-round action (barring an explicit rule to the contrary, such as Greater Manyshot) almost certainly applies here.

Other than the RC’s full-round stipulation, if the bounced attacks would otherwise qualify as Skirmish or Sudden Strike, I see no reason why they wouldn’t apply. Even Sneak Attack should apply to a skip rock stone, since you’d need a special rule like Boomerang Ricochet saying that it wouldn’t apply. Again, assuming that you meet the RC’s bar and that the other conditions for the precision damage are met.

For Psionic Shot, you’re making two attacks with two separate d20 rolls, so I don’t get where your comment about “one attack roll” comes from. I see no way in which you could read it as applying more than once.

Chestershire
2018-04-06, 10:40 AM
Regarding the Psionic Shot that was my mistake, for some reason I kept thinking attack bonus = attack roll (in Skiprocks Description)

Is there anyway (feat chain, weapon enhancement/material, cheese) to make it apply to multiple attacks in a single standard action from a single source?
Feat Below for those who are unfamiliar.
To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. Your ranged attack deals +2d6 points of damage. You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus.

heregoeshell
2018-04-06, 01:28 PM
Just worked on a build focused around this, stacking feats and abilities onto throwable aptitude weapons. I found that the combination of greater manyshot, alongside boomerang ricochet, felt like enough of a character devotion that the precision damage could apply to the remainder of the bounces or shots provided by the feats and abilities. Personally, as melee has such a low power in general, and that the later taken nature of greater manyshot overruled the previous limitation by the boomerang ricochet, and the player's devotion through skip-rock champion, I found that it was reasonable to allow precision damage. It worries me slightly when the player gets a little daze happy, but with his build and the limited amount of damage to provide for the daze check, I figure it will be an annoyance. Plus Sunder weapon ho! if he gets abusive with it I have talked with him about not going easy on destroying the lynchpin of his build (the aptitude weapons), which would totally gimp his build. In regards to psionic shot, I feel it would apply in the same manner.

Jowgen
2018-04-06, 03:43 PM
I believe you are using the older version of skiprocks, here's the updated text from Races of the Wild


Halfl ing weaponsmiths developed these polished stones. Each skiprock is perfectly weighted and shaped
for throwing. If the skiprock hits its target, it ricochets toward another target of the thrower’s choice. The second target must be adjacent to the original target (no more than 5 feet away).
The thrower immediately makes a second attack roll for the skiprock against the new target, with an attack bonus 2 lower than that of the initial attack. Although they are thrown weapons, skiprocks are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
Skiprocks can be used as sling bullets, but using a skiprock’s ricochet ability in conjunction with a sling requires taking
the Exotic Weapon Profi ciency (war sling) feat.

They're largely the same, though one difference is that using them as ammunition with things other than slings (e.g. stone spitter graft) doesn't preclude the use of ricochet.

Now per my understanding, precision damage works with the skiprocks, as it's separate attack rolls and thus should not constitute a volley attack as per the rules compendium. Yes, it looks like it should be the same as boomerang ricochet, but that's not what the rules say.

The explosive sling shouldn't work, as the projectile is explicitly destroyed upon hitting.

Zaq
2018-04-06, 04:32 PM
Now per my understanding, precision damage works with the skiprocks, as it's separate attack rolls and thus should not constitute a volley attack as per the rules compendium.

Nope. RC pg. 42:

A form of attack that enables an attacker to make multiple attacks during an action other than a full-round action, such as the Manyshot feat (standard action) or a quickened scorching ray (swift action), allows precision damage to be applied only to the first attack in the group.

Nothing about how many attack rolls you make. What the RC cares about is what kind of action you've spent.

Jowgen
2018-04-06, 05:02 PM
Nope. RC pg. 42:


Nothing about how many attack rolls you make. What the RC cares about is what kind of action you've spent.

I stand corrected.