3rd member for Party of 3 (Arcane Trickster & Cleric 1/Wizard X)

[Wasp]

Hi everyone

what kind of character build would you suggest to round out and complete a three person party.

The given* party members are

Changeling Arcane Trickster 3, face with focus on social skills and trickery, possibly going Lore Bard
High Elf Knowledge Cleric 1 / Diviner Wizard 2, continuing as Wizard to the end

The player would be interested in playing a Warforged and melee character; but don't feel bound to that if you would so something else.

So what would you like to have as a third party member in a situation like this? The campaign will very likely not go beyond lvl 15 or so


Thanks!


*) None has been finalized yet

[Merudo]

Hi everyone

what kind of character build would you suggest to round out and complete a three person party.

*) None has been finalized yet

Premade adventure or homebrew?

[kardar233]

That party needs a frontliner, badly. Warforged works well with high AC classes, so I’d recommend a Fighter (any subclass, but particularly Eldritch Knight), Paladin or a Tempest or War Cleric. Almost definitely grab Sentinel for stickiness.

[Vorpalchicken]

How about a Warforged barbarian for an enraged machine of death?

I think the (normally Dwarven) battlerager would be fun for spiked armor of death, if the DM allows.

Zealot would be nasty too. Maybe it's a death machine, constructed by the gods?

[CTurbo]

I agree with Fighter, Paladin, or Tempest Cleric for sure. That's 21-22AC on any of those lol

Barbarian would be great although a little weird IMO for a Warforged.

If you really want to come out of left field, how about a Warforged Valor Bard? lol

[Wasp]

Premade adventure or homebrew?
Homebrew. From experience there will be combat, but it will not be combat-heavy. We all agreed we would like some detective stuff or even political intrigue... I expect more humanoid adversaries than monsters so to speak.


That party needs a frontliner, badly. Warforged works well with high AC classes, so I’d recommend a Fighter (any subclass, but particularly Eldritch Knight), Paladin or a Tempest or War Cleric. Almost definitely grab Sentinel for stickiness.
Yeah, both the AT and the Diviner aren't really front line materia, aren't they? :tongue:


I agree with Fighter, Paladin, or Tempest Cleric for sure. That's 21-22AC on any of those lol

Barbarian would be great although a little weird IMO for a Warforged.

If you really want to come out of left field, how about a Warforged Valor Bard? lol

Wouldn't the Valor Bard "infringe" too much on the expertise of the other two?


How about a Warforged barbarian for an enraged machine of death?

I think the (normally Dwarven) battlerager would be fun for spiked armor of death, if the DM allows.

Zealot would be nasty too. Maybe it's a death machine, constructed by the gods?

So if I understand correctly one could go either the route of a Fighter, Paladin, Tempest or War Cleric to profit from high AC or one could go barbarian (to get more front line damage at lower levels?).

I think flavor-wise both options could work very well. I mean why not have a machine, that has some killer robot programming in there somewhere (like that Bastion short from Overwatch) ;-)

Regarding the cleric option - how about the forge domain? Would that work in a frontine role?

[CTurbo]

Homebrew. From experience there will be combat, but it will not be combat-heavy. We all agreed we would like some detective stuff or even political intrigue... I expect more humanoid adversaries than monsters so to speak.


Yeah, both the AT and the Diviner aren't really front line materia, aren't they? :tongue:



Wouldn't the Valor Bard "infringe" too much on the expertise of the other two?



So if I understand correctly one could go either the route of a Fighter, Paladin, Tempest or War Cleric to profit from high AC or one could go barbarian (to get more front line damage at lower levels?).

I think flavor-wise both options could work very well. I mean why not have a machine, that has some killer robot programming in there somewhere (like that Bastion short from Overwatch) ;-)

Regarding the cleric option - how about the forge domain? Would that work in a frontine role?

Yeah Forge Clerics are tough, but you'd lack in damage output especially compared to the Tempest. Forge is really flavorful for you though as Warforged.


A Paladin would make a great 3rd member. A Paladin makes any group better. You'd be the high charisma one in the group though unless the Changling Rogue really unoptimizes his stats or you are rolling for stats and roll high.

[CTurbo]

I actually like the idea of being a Warforged Polearm Master Battlemaster Fighter in that group. You'd be the muscle of the group for sure. You'd get a lot of attacks. Could combine with Sentinel for super stickiness and still get Str and probably Con maxed out. You could even throw in the Heavy Armor Mastery feat and be the tankiest tank that ever tanked lol

[Aaron Underhand]

I actually like the idea of being a Warforged Polearm Master Battlemaster Fighter in that group. You'd be the muscle of the group for sure. You'd get a lot of attacks. Could combine with Sentinel for super stickiness and still get Str and probably Con maxed out. You could even throw in the Heavy Armor Mastery feat and be the tankiest tank that ever tanked lol

I agree - in a three person party you want tankiness and survivability - I might prefer Paladin, for the aura at 6th level, but that makes feats much harder to come by. Warforged Paladin with just GWM would be my pick, though Variant Human gets the feat at the start.

Realistically in a party of three everyone will get jumped, so they all better be ready, which means to me focus on damage output, not sentinel.

[Wasp]

Okay, so it seems there's some agreement that a fighter or a paladin warforged would probably be the best option due to stickiness, maaaaybeeee Tempest cleric - but Forge and War cleric may be not strong enough if the only real fighter type. Thanks a lot! :smallsmile:

If we didn't have the race restriction - would that change? The only restriction we have is that variant humans are off the table.

[GorogIrongut]

I'll be honest, I think that a Forge Cleric would be more than up to the job. He's tough enough, that's for sure. Throw in Spirit Guardians and Spirit Weapon and he should do admirably. To keep him on par with fighter/barb output, he would benefit from BB or GFB. Lightning Lure and Thorn Whip (TW>LL) would be a good way of keeping mooks off your casters while simultaneously pulling them back into the sphere of influence of your Spirit Guardians. Whatever healing he doesn't cover, should be covered by your Wizard. And best of all, it gives you another full caster to play with (remember clerics get a lot of out of combat utility).

If you're desperate for a fighter, I would go 3 levels in Eldritch Knight and then go straight Forge Cleric from that point (EK would get access to 3 of the 4 cantrips I mentioned)(No, I would not go to level 5 to get extra attack. Extra Attack doesn't mesh well with BB/GFB use).

[CTurbo]

Are you using the Standard Array, Point Buy, rolling 4d6, etc...?

I like the Warforged idea. Any of the mentions above would be fine. Paladins are top tier as is the Tempest Cleric. A Fighter gets extra ASIs and/or feats so they'll be beasts in combat, but they are lacking in utility. The same thing can be said about Barbarian.


I guess the important question is what kind of character does this person want to play?

[Matrix_Walker]

I'll just echo the call for a martial character. Fighter or Paladin would work nicely.

[Wasp]

Are you using the Standard Array, Point Buy, rolling 4d6, etc...?
Standard Array.


I guess the important question is what kind of character does this person want to play?
The idea was afaik that we discover a derelict warforged of old. After reactivating they start as a a soldier type but soon have some kind of "awakening" or desire to be more than the original programming. So something like starting with fighter 3 and then changing classes could work really well. But also the barbarian fighting with their inner "barbaric" programming.

[CTurbo]

Standard Array.


The idea was afaik that we discover a derelict warforged of old. After reactivating they start as a a soldier type but soon have some kind of "awakening" or desire to be more than the original programming. So something like starting with fighter 3 and then changing classes could work really well. But also the barbarian fighting with their inner "barbaric" programming.


That sounds cool. Mechanically speaking though, that would put off his second attack and first ASI quite a while. Maybe Fighter 5 or 6 and then go Barb from there on out?

[djreynolds]

Hi everyone

what kind of character build would you suggest to round out and complete a three person party.

The given* party members are

Changeling Arcane Trickster 3, face with focus on social skills and trickery, possibly going Lore Bard
High Elf Knowledge Cleric 1 / Diviner Wizard 2, continuing as Wizard to the end

The player would be interested in playing a Warforged and melee character; but don't feel bound to that if you would so something else.

So what would you like to have as a third party member in a situation like this? The campaign will very likely not go beyond lvl 15 or so


Thanks!


*) None has been finalized yet

Could a martial bard type be an idea? Only because you are missing out on some buff/debuffs. A warforged college of swords bard could be cool.

[Requilac]

You certainly need a tank, and I personally think that a paladin would work the best. You have a cleric/wizard in the group already, but it is only level one in cleric and apparently has no plans for continuing with cleric, so some support/healing magic is in order too. Paladin covers both roles your lacking in, tanking and support, while your AT can take care of skirmishing/stealth and your wizard can cover arcane stuff.

[Belier]

Moon druid will tank and offer versatility at the same time.

[Waazraath]

I second Barbarian (any). I've played with several 3 player parties and the enormous amount of damage they can take is invaluable.

But in general: this seems very squishy for a 3 person party. It's compensated a bit by the wizard going cleric 1, but from a survivability perspective, I'd personally prefer a party where cleric 1/ wiz X would be replaced with full cleric or druid; Same for the rogue: at level 5, it gains a lot of survivability. Multiclassing into another class that is nice, offers skill, and utility, but lacks any defensive features I'd really not recommend. But ymmv, depending of course on the kind of game you run.

[Wasp]

Yeah, I feared we may be a bit on the squishy side... Hmmm... maybe we can recruit a third player :smallsmile:

In any case: Thanks for all the help, you have given us a lot to think about *lol*

[CTurbo]

Yeah, I feared we may be a bit on the squishy side... Hmmm... maybe we can recruit a third player :smallsmile:

In any case: Thanks for all the help, you have given us a lot to think about *lol*


So what character are you leaning towards?

[Wasp]

In an ideal world the Warforged would want to either start as a fighter and afterwards move towards Forge Cleric (just for roleplaying reasons) or be a Forge Cleric from the start.

So if we find a fourth person that's what we'll do, otherwise we may overhaul the whole group constellation.

[Galadhrim]

I had a very similar scenario and decided to go with a crown Paladin. He is not quite the damage machine other Paladins offer but still deals his fair share, and the aoe taunt is a big deal for a small party like this. If you do need more damage, you can always take a single level of hexblade.Paladin in general fills the roles you need but crown I think gives you some additional advantage.

Role play you could have it be programmed to protect a certain group (whoever "wakes" it) which would for great with the crown ideals.

[Ogre Mage]

You certainly need a tank, and I personally think that a paladin would work the best. You have a cleric/wizard in the group already, but it is only level one in cleric and apparently has no plans for continuing with cleric, so some support/healing magic is in order too. Paladin covers both roles your lacking in, tanking and support, while your AT can take care of skirmishing/stealth and your wizard can cover arcane stuff.

That is my opinion also. A fighter could also work, but a paladin would fill the niche better.

[GorogIrongut]

In an ideal world the Warforged would want to either start as a fighter and afterwards move towards Forge Cleric (just for roleplaying reasons) or be a Forge Cleric from the start.

So if we find a fourth person that's what we'll do, otherwise we may overhaul the whole group constellation.

D&D is all about having fun. Suggest to the DM that these are the characters that you would like to play as a group. Acknowledge that you're missing a tank (though I still think a Forge Cleric is sufficient considering you said it would be roleplaying/social with a side of combat). And ask him to tailor the adventures around the characters that you want to play (while obviously still making them tough). That way you get to play what you want without being swamped by neverending hoards of orcs.

[Wasp]

Role play you could have it be programmed to protect a certain group (whoever "wakes" it) which would for great with the crown ideals.
Surprise, surprise, after this concept idea the Paladin is back on the table. :smallcool:

So we may either have a Warforged Forge Cleric or a Warforged Paladin. Would a Crown Paladin be everyone's first option for a party with an Arcane Trickster and a Divination Wizard?



D&D is all about having fun. Suggest to the DM that these are the characters that you would like to play as a group. Acknowledge that you're missing a tank (though I still think a Forge Cleric is sufficient considering you said it would be roleplaying/social with a side of combat). And ask him to tailor the adventures around the characters that you want to play (while obviously still making them tough). That way you get to play what you want without being swamped by neverending hoards of orcs.


Yeah, I think it's definitely the best strategy to discuss this with the DM. After all we are not playing against each other but together...

[Citan]

Hi everyone

what kind of character build would you suggest to round out and complete a three person party.

The given* party members are

Changeling Arcane Trickster 3, face with focus on social skills and trickery, possibly going Lore Bard
High Elf Knowledge Cleric 1 / Diviner Wizard 2, continuing as Wizard to the end

The player would be interested in playing a Warforged and melee character; but don't feel bound to that if you would so something else.

So what would you like to have as a third party member in a situation like this? The campaign will very likely not go beyond lvl 15 or so


Thanks!


*) None has been finalized yet
Hi!

Using the desideratas, I'd say a Monk: INT and CHA are already covered so WIS is nice, and although the stats increases are really not aligning with the natural class's forte, having more life is always good and having more strenghs help with Shoving. You could also make a pretty decent Hunter Ranger, especially since you could not care about DEX (above 14) nor WIS (just pick non-WIS spells).

For a more "aligned class for race", a good old GWM Bear Barbarian should do the trick: high damage that can be distributed or focused on a single target (pairs with Diviner Wizard's expected single-target control spells), provides advantage to Rogue fellow's Sneak Attack,
can stick in the middle of the crowd because Rage, can reasonably expect people to attack him because Reckless Attack, can even sustain occasional AOE, either from foes or even friends (sometimes the chance is just too good to pass) thanks to Bear resistance.

EDIT: Just realized when catching up with thread I came far too late into the discussion. XD
So between both choices exposed in last post, go with Paladin, definitively.
They are by very far the best tanks (at least when non-multiclass builds are considered ;)).
Between Crown and Ancients, choice is kinda hard. Crown will be much better at keeping people focused on him... Ancients could act as a "pseudo-barbarian" as far as AOE go...