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Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-07, 05:57 AM
I have only recently begun GM'ing games and I need to ask if I can be allowed to take liberties with some rules and fluff of some RPG settings.

bc56
2018-04-07, 06:07 AM
Go ahead. The GM makes the rules, not the books. The books are intended as guidelines. This is especially true for lore.

BWR
2018-04-07, 06:19 AM
Rule 0.
And sometimes established lore in an otherwise cool setting is really, really stupid.

Bundin
2018-04-07, 06:25 AM
If you worry about one or more of your players having problems with it, just give them a general heads up in advance about your plan to not sticking to the established lore too strictly. That way, they can already 'adjust' to that, and it won't be an "omg, you totally can't do that!!" moment when it happens. If there are complaints, just have a chat about it. In the end, it's shared storytelling, both you and the players probably will deviate from the rules/lore every now and then anyway :)

Millstone85
2018-04-07, 07:08 AM
Go ahead. The GM makes the rules, not the books. The books are intended as guidelines. This is especially true for lore.As with any game, the manual is a contract between the players. Disregarding it is like inviting someone to play Clue only for them to find Monopoly on the table. Being in the position of a referee doesn't change that.

It is not just better to warn people in advance about house rules and original lore, it is a must.

Celestia
2018-04-07, 07:12 AM
Absolutely not. If you ever find a DM doing such a thing, please report them to the Role-Playing Police Department (RPPD) so that they may be properly fined and jailed.

braveheart
2018-04-07, 11:06 AM
As with any game, the manual is a contract between the players. Disregarding it is like inviting someone to play Clue only for them to find Monopoly on the table. Being in the position of a referee doesn't change that.

It is not just better to warn people in advance about house rules and original lore, it is a must.


For houserules, you are correct, (if you forget to warn someone about one, let them know once it comes up and give the player an opportunity to change their action in accordance). However I must disagree in terms of lore, a GM controls the everything not dice or PC and lore falls well within that category. A GM doesn't need to tell players what they change in the lore, becausebas often as not the players only know the parts of lore that the GM has told them so far anyway.

Nifft
2018-04-07, 11:20 AM
I have only recently begun GM'ing games and I need to ask if I can be allowed to take liberties with some rules and fluff of some RPG settings.

You are morally required to make changes to the rules & setting lore when necessary. That's your role and your responsibility.


However:

- Try not to change things just to mess with the players' expectations. The characters? Mess with them. Unexpected things happening to PCs is fun and exciting. But not the players, that's just frustrating.

- If you can find a way to justify doing what you want using the setting's lore, that's more elegant.

- Try not to replace something unique with something generic.

- Never change a thing just to spite a player. If you've got a flavor-lawyer who knows the setting better than you do, don't engage in a power struggle. You will "win" the power struggle, but the player will become unhappy, and having an unhappy player means losing in a more important way. Instead, try to co-opt the flavor-lawyer to help you figure out how to work with the setting's lore.

- Remember that surprises are better in fiction and worse in games. Telegraph your sudden-yet-inevitable betrayals (to the players, not the PCs).

TheStranger
2018-04-07, 11:33 AM
For houserules, you are correct, (if you forget to warn someone about one, let them know once it comes up and give the player an opportunity to change their action in accordance). However I must disagree in terms of lore, a GM controls the everything not dice or PC and lore falls well within that category. A GM doesn't need to tell players what they change in the lore, becausebas often as not the players only know the parts of lore that the GM has told them so far anyway.

That's true in homebrew settings, but in the case of a setting with a lot of official lore, players will come in with some expectations. The GM can change the lore, but it's only fair that they give the players notice. Not a whole errata or anything, just a heads-up that you've changed some things. Otherwise they will (quite reasonably) rely on their setting knowledge to make decisions during play, and there's potential for conflict if you haven't warned them.

I agree with Millstone85, if you're using an established setting, you should discuss major lore changes with your players. Yes, it's technically something that the GM controls, but if the players signed up for a Star Wars game, they probably prefer that it be recognizably Star Wars (whatever that means to them). You may have a great idea where the Galactic Empire is actually a benign dictatorship and popular with everybody except some religious nuts, criminals, and the people they took power from, but have a conversation with your players before you run that game.

Amaril
2018-04-07, 11:44 AM
With fluff, do whatever the group thinks is coolest. If that means sticking to an established setting down to the last detail, do that. If it means going a completely different way, cool. As long as everyone at the table enjoys it.

As far as rules go, though, it depends on the system. Most games, D&D included, hold up fine when the rules are altered on the fly. However, some systems--Powered by the Apocalypse comes to mind--really break down if the rules aren't adhered to exactly as written. It depends on the player-GM relationship the system assumes. In something like D&D, the GM is supposed to deliberately tune the game experience to be challenging, but not unfair to the players, and to actively rebalance it as the game unfolds based on whether everyone is enjoying it. On the other hand, in something like PbtA, the GM isn't expected to hold back the same way--they're supposed to try and f*** over the players as hard as they feel like, and the rules exist for the players' protection, to ensure that no matter how hard the odds are stacked against them in the fiction, they can always exert a certain amount of control over the story. Personally, I favor games that take the latter approach, but they're very much in the minority.

Pex
2018-04-07, 12:34 PM
I have only recently begun GM'ing games and I need to ask if I can be allowed to take liberties with some rules and fluff of some RPG settings.

As long as you tell the players before the game starts what rules and established game world lore of published settings you are changing. You do have final say on the matter, but listen to a player who disagrees with a rule change decision. You can of course keep your rule change, but even upon keeping it it helps to hear an opposing view to ensure you aren't causing unforeseen problems. If the rule change does affect something else you hadn't intended you can patch that up as well. If it's too problematic you may decide not to do the rule change. It's also possible you're ok with the unintended consequence and consider it a bonus feature so you keep the rule change.

1337 b4k4
2018-04-07, 12:39 PM
As others have said, absolutely you can, and often you should, with the caveats that people should know when those changes are relevant (e.g. they affect the characters abilities themselves, or for example, if house cats are known in your world to be extremely toxic and deadly when touched, the characters having grown up in the world should know that).

But another caveat is to understand what the purpose of the rule you're changing is before you go and change it. My go to example is early D&D gave you the most XP for GP, not for killing monsters and to some people, XP for GP makes no sense. 3.x D&D eliminated that rule, and as a result, 3.x and later D&D is much less a dungeon crawl/exploration game than earlier D&D was, because it completely changed the reward/progression system.

Frozen_Feet
2018-04-07, 01:10 PM
I have only recently begun GM'ing games and I need to ask if I can be allowed to take liberties with some rules and fluff of some RPG settings.

Think of what it would take to do the opposite: to never break any rules of system or setting.

They'd have to be both complete and consistent. Raise your hand if you know what's the problem with that.

Koo Rehtorb
2018-04-07, 02:45 PM
Changing rules should be a group discussion, or at the very least, a decision announced well in advance and put up for debate and comments. Never change a rule on the spur of the moment just because you think it would make for a better story or some nonsense like that.

Changing the setting is a little more permissible, so long as the group wasn't sold on the idea of strictly keeping to an established setting that they really like.

Max_Killjoy
2018-04-07, 02:52 PM
As with so many things that come up, it's a question of intent, and honesty.

Why are you doing it?

Are you being open with the other players?

2D8HP
2018-04-07, 04:13 PM
I have only recently begun GM'ing games and I need to ask if I can be allowed to take liberties with some rules and fluff of some RPG settings.


It depends on your table how it will be accepted.

But one old "RPG" (originally called a "wargame") encourages it:

The "rules" are up to each individual table, and always have been.

Dungeons and Dragons, The Underground and Wilderness Adventures, p. 36: "... everything herein is fantastic, and the best way is to decide how you would like it to be, and then make it that way."

AD&D 1e, DMG, p. 9: "..The game is the thing, and certain rules can be distorted or disregarded altogether in favor of play...."


AD&D 2E, DMG, p. 3: "At conventions, in letters, and over the phone, I'm often asked for the instant answer to a fine point of the game rules. More often than not, I come back with a question -- what do you feel is right? And the people asking the question discover that not only can they create an answer, but that their answer is as good as anyone else's. The rules are only guidelines."

D&D 3.5 DMG, p. 6: "Good players will always realize that you have ultimate authority over the game mechanics, even superseding something in a rulebook."


D&D 5e DMG, p. 263:: "...As the Dungeon Master, You aren't limited by the rules in the Player's Handbook, the guidelines in this book, or the selection of monsters in the Monster Manual..."

What typical players usually object to are changes that they perceive reduce the chances of their PC's succeeding at tasks, and/or surviving, so I'd try to guess those and give them a heads up.

Darth Ultron
2018-04-07, 04:16 PM
Yes, but for a Gm/Dm it is not breaking something.

If the setting lore says "all elves are evil monsters that eat humans'', a GM CAN make a good elf guy that only eats vegetables or even a village of good elves. This does not ''break'' any lore.

And if the rules say ''elves can not be wizards", the GM can make a elf wizard, and again it does not ''break" a rule.

Drascin
2018-04-07, 04:50 PM
I have only recently begun GM'ing games and I need to ask if I can be allowed to take liberties with some rules and fluff of some RPG settings.

It's not just that you CAN, but you SHOULD. The game is yours - you and your players', not the designers'.

If a point of lore or rules rubs any of you guys the wrong way, don't hesitate for a second to throw it into the trash and come up with something cooler. In fact, noticing when something is not working for your player group and subsequently setting said element on fire with extreme prejudice is one of your most important jobs as a DM!

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-07, 08:35 PM
Okay, perhaps I should be clearer. We are/were playing Deathwatch, a 40k RPG. My players are a bunch of Korean kids who wanted to play Space Marines without the HORRIFIC elements thrown in. Heck, they just fight Tyranids as they are similar to the Zerg of Starcraft which they are very familiar with just as, I suppose, the Adeptus Astartes are kinda similar to the Terrans at least in terms of appearances.

I am indeed very familiar with 40k lore but the goal was to make a "friendlier" setting than the usual. We have a 6-year-old who plays as a Furioso Dreadnought for one thing. The oldest player is at least 18 and he visibly balked at the Enemy Beyond and Black Crusade rulebooks and said that they make the game TOO HORRIFYING. Even as a 40k fanatic, I actually agree with him.

In the original lore, befriending aliens was UNTHINKABLE HERESY but my players were interested in diplomacy with T'au, Eldar and even Orks so I changed the lore a bit so the Astartes including my players were much more "heroic" and less xenophobic death machines.

Yes, all of you may now accuse me of ULTIMATE HERESY and declare EXTERMINATUS on me but I changed the rules for my players...

P.S. Do you guys know any other Sci-fi RPG like 40k but less HORRIFYING? Like maybe a Starcraft RPG?

To be clear:

My players wanted to be "heroes of the galaxy" not the "butchers of the galaxy" as the Astartes have become over centuries of grim darkness...

Max_Killjoy
2018-04-07, 08:44 PM
Absolutely nothing wrong with what you did.

The 40k lore started out as satire/parody, and then ended up taking itself seriously too often, turning into the poster child for grimdork.

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-07, 08:53 PM
Absolutely not. If you ever find a DM doing such a thing, please report them to the Role-Playing Police Department (RPPD) so that they may be properly fined and jailed.

I'm already scheduled to be executed for HERESY by the Ordo Xenos...

Kish
2018-04-07, 08:55 PM
Then you have nothing to lose.

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-07, 08:56 PM
Absolutely nothing wrong with what you did.

The 40k lore started out as satire/parody, and then ended up taking itself seriously too often, turning into the poster child for grimdork.

Thanks. I just didn't want to sound like I was trying to ruin the setting or lore. I just wanted to have fun with my players without the horrific crap 40k is famous for.

TheStranger
2018-04-07, 09:14 PM
Yep, completely fine. Better than fine - well done! You adapted the setting to fit the needs of your group, which is what a good GM does.

Kelb_Panthera
2018-04-07, 09:15 PM
I have only recently begun GM'ing games and I need to ask if I can be allowed to take liberties with some rules and fluff of some RPG settings.

You -can- but that doesn't mean you should. It depends on what your group wants out of the game; narrative, gameism, or simulationism. You'll have some of all three but you and your players will have your preferences for one element or another.

The narrative element is the story your game tells. If you focus on this element then bending or even breaking rules and setting lore can, perhaps sometimes should, be done to make a cooler story. The rule of cool is the rule of the day.

The game element is the rules themselves and the competition they facilitate between the players and the game world (NOT the GM). If you focus on this element then bending the setting lore is okay if you don't go overboard but the mechanical rules are sacrosanct. A victory either handed to you or denied by the GMs whim is meaningless.

The simulationist element, aka; verisimilitude, is the consistency and believability of the game world. Focus on this element means keeping the setting lore straight and at least trying to keep the organization of various creatures and power groups from being totally nonsensical. Now, you can -change- the setting lore if you like but you need to remember those changes and keep things consistent. Most groups won't have this is their primary focus but will want to avoid damaging it too much lest doing so jars them out of the game.

It's up to you and your group to decide what the order of importance for these game elements and -that- will tell you whether you should break rules and lore or not.

1337 b4k4
2018-04-07, 09:15 PM
Okay, perhaps I should be clearer. We are/were playing Deathwatch, a 40k RPG. My players are a bunch of Korean kids who wanted to play Space Marines without the HORRIFIC elements thrown in. Heck, they just fight Tyranids as they are similar to the Zerg of Starcraft which they are very familiar with just as, I suppose, the Adeptus Astartes are kinda similar to the Terrans at least in terms of appearances.

I am indeed very familiar with 40k lore but the goal was to make a "friendlier" setting than the usual. We have a 6-year-old who plays as a Furioso Dreadnought for one thing. The oldest player is at least 18 and he visibly balked at the Enemy Beyond and Black Crusade rulebooks and said that they make the game TOO HORRIFYING. Even as a 40k fanatic, I actually agree with him.

In the original lore, befriending aliens was UNTHINKABLE HERESY but my players were interested in diplomacy with T'au, Eldar and even Orks so I changed the lore a bit so the Astartes including my players were much more "heroic" and less xenophobic death machines.

Yes, all of you may now accuse me of ULTIMATE HERESY and declare EXTERMINATUS on me but I changed the rules for my players...

P.S. Do you guys know any other Sci-fi RPG like 40k but less HORRIFYING? Like maybe a Starcraft RPG?

To be clear:

My players wanted to be "heroes of the galaxy" not the "butchers of the galaxy" as the Astartes have become over centuries of grim darkness...

This is exactly what you should be doing. Building a game your players want to play. As to your question, I'm not very familiar with the 40k line, but my understanding was Rogue Trader was supposed to be a less grimdark 40k RPG. If you're looking for "Space Marines" type stuff, you could look into some of the old classic Traveller stuff (Cepheus Engine is a free clone)

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-07, 09:45 PM
This is exactly what you should be doing. Building a game your players want to play. As to your question, I'm not very familiar with the 40k line, but my understanding was Rogue Trader was supposed to be a less grimdark 40k RPG. If you're looking for "Space Marines" type stuff, you could look into some of the old classic Traveller stuff (Cepheus Engine is a free clone)

Traveller... I should check that out. Thanks.

Koo Rehtorb
2018-04-07, 09:50 PM
Okay, perhaps I should be clearer. We are/were playing Deathwatch, a 40k RPG. My players are a bunch of Korean kids who wanted to play Space Marines without the HORRIFIC elements thrown in. Heck, they just fight Tyranids as they are similar to the Zerg of Starcraft which they are very familiar with just as, I suppose, the Adeptus Astartes are kinda similar to the Terrans at least in terms of appearances.

Why play a 40k RPG in that case?

Anyway, if you want to schmooze with aliens and whatnot then just play Rogue Trader instead.

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-07, 09:56 PM
Why play a 40k RPG in that case?

Anyway, if you want to schmooze with aliens and whatnot then just play Rogue Trader instead.

I showed them my 40k rpg collection. They liked the Astartes/Deathwatch. They wanted to be "heroes of the galaxy". 40k is all I had at the time.

1337 b4k4
2018-04-07, 11:58 PM
I showed them my 40k rpg collection. They liked the Astartes/Deathwatch. They wanted to be "heroes of the galaxy". 40k is all I had at the time.

Hmm, so are they attracted to 40k lore as a whole, just not the grimdark thing? Or are they wanting just a general space marines thing? Or are they wanting an even more general sci-fi high adventure thing? Or a "big damn heroes" Firefly style edge of the universe trying to get by sort of thing? Because it might be worth trying a different system entirely:

Some links, all free, with mentions of paid products as well

Space Marines: Cepheus Engine (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/186894/Cepheus-Engine-System-Reference-Document?term=Cepheu&test_epoch=0) or Traveller, specifically focusing on the military stuff. If you pick up Traveller, you might want the "High Guard" addition for classic. Could also try something like Robotech although it's more mecha than space marine.

Sci-Fi High Adventure: D6 Space (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/20447/D6-Space?it=1) and D6 Space Ships (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/20449/D6-Space-Ships?src=also_purchased&it=1). Sorry these two aren't actually free (they used to be) but at $3 for the PDFs it's the next best thing. D6 was the system underneath the old WEG Star Wars RPG, so this is basically old starwars with the serial numbers filed off. There's also the Open D6 stuff (https://ogc.rpglibrary.org/index.php?title=OpenD6) which was supposedly OGL'd by the WEG founder. Not sure how this differs from the DTRPG links. Adventures on Dungeon Planet is a Dungeon World (nee Apocalypse World) hack for Sci Fi and there are current production Star Wars and Star Trek games online and at DTRPG

Big Damn Heroes on the Edge of Space: Stars Without Number (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/230009/Stars-Without-Number-Revised-Edition-Free-Version) is a sort of old school D&D meets Traveller meets Firefly sort of game. Obviously there's the Firefly RPG as well. White Star (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/148169/White-Star-White-Box-Science-Fiction-Roleplaying-Swords--Wizardry) is old school D&D IN SPAAAAAAACE and Traveller/Cepheus engine can be used for this as well.

Lastly Transhuman/Cyberpunk Sci Fi fun a-la the netflix series Altered Carbon can be had with Eclipse Phase (https://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs/) which does pitch itself as Transhuman Horror but you could tone down or skip it entirely (e.g. go Delta Green on the horror elements rather than Call of Cthulhu)

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-08, 12:22 AM
Thank you for the sources. They like the way the Space Marines looked as well as their weapons and equipment but didn't like the horror like you said. Although I've been planning to add a watered down Chaos in a later setting. For instance, they already know that Slaanesh is the god of perverts but we try not to go into too much detail as we have minors in our group. I mostly discuss the issue of what to include with the older kids who are 18 & 16 respectively.

tensai_oni
2018-04-08, 02:41 AM
If you like Deathwatch's mechanics then there's nothing wrong in using that. Don't feel forced to homebrew a system using a different RPG just because it's too "different" so it doesn't fit the tone anymore. As Max Killjoy said, wh40k started as a parody but nowadays it takes itself way too seriously. It's not a sacred cow so don't treat it like one, don't be afraid to change elements as you see fit.

I mean, Brighthammer is a thing and nobody bats an eyelid.

Knaight
2018-04-08, 02:59 AM
You absolutely can, most rules sets include verbiage to the effect of saying that you should, and settings in particular usually warrant changes.

Jay R
2018-04-08, 09:39 AM
As long as you tell the players before the game starts what rules and established game world lore of published settings you are changing....

... or tell that that they don't know. In my last AD&D campaign, I included this in the introductory description


DO NOT assume that you know anything about any fantasy creatures. I will re-write many monsters and races, introduce some not in D&D, and eliminate some. The purpose is to make the world strange and mysterious. It will allow (require) PCs to learn, by trial and error, what works. Most of these changes I will not tell you in advance. Here are a couple, just to give you some idea what I mean.

1. Dragons are not color-coded for the benefit of the PCs.
2. Of elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, kobolds, goblins, and orcs, at least one does not exist, at least one is slightly different from the books, and at least one is wildly different.
3. Several monsters have different alignments from the books.
4. The name of an Undead will not tell you what will or won’t hurt it.
5. The first time you see a member of a humanoid race, I will describe it as a “vaguely man-shaped creature.” This could be a kobold, an elf, or an Umber Hulk until you learn what they are.

Nobody complained; everybody enjoyed the game; one player was quoting lines from my introduction years later.

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-08, 06:26 PM
Thanks everyone for both the suggestions and the encouragement. I think we're ready for our next campaign. I'll be posting again real soon.

FreddyNoNose
2018-04-08, 06:28 PM
As with any game, the manual is a contract between the players. Disregarding it is like inviting someone to play Clue only for them to find Monopoly on the table. Being in the position of a referee doesn't change that.

It is not just better to warn people in advance about house rules and original lore, it is a must.

I don't agree. Therefore there isn't a meeting of the minds and therefore no contract.

Players don't need the rules because that is meta gaming which I am against.

You have a character, you try to do stuff. You learn about it as you go along. If you start quoting the book that X means Y be prepared to get Z upside your head.

Mechalich
2018-04-08, 06:44 PM
Setting lore is a funny thing, because many settings are internally inconsistent, especially across the imprint of different authors and over time. Generally, when using a published setting you're going to want to pick a specific reference as the backdrop to which all questions are referred. This becomes harder for settings with an active ongoing metaplot, because what's happening in the setting turns into a moving target (this is one reason why metaplot tends to annoy table-top fanbases). In such a situation you probably want to pick one book that forms the core of your campaign and say 'everything in this book is true' (minus any specific exceptions you wish to make) and then handle material from other sources as it arises.

For example, if you ran a 3.5e FR campaign in the Silver Marches, you'd probably want the actual Silver Marches book to be the last word on your setting.

Max_Killjoy
2018-04-08, 07:02 PM
As with any game, the manual is a contract between the players. Disregarding it is like inviting someone to play Clue only for them to find Monopoly on the table. Being in the position of a referee doesn't change that.

It is not just better to warn people in advance about house rules and original lore, it is a must.



I don't agree. Therefore there isn't a meeting of the minds and therefore no contract.

Players don't need the rules because that is meta gaming which I am against.

You have a character, you try to do stuff. You learn about it as you go along. If you start quoting the book that X means Y be prepared to get Z upside your head.


Or here's a third option -- the manual is just a starting point for what the individual group actually agrees to, AND there's absolutely nothing wrong with all the players knowing the mechanics and setting by heart whether they happen to be sitting in the GM chair or not.

Oddly, the notion of the RAW as sacrosanct, and the notion of rules and setting knowledge as sole purview of a player who GMs and not needed by any other players (who of course somehow never have and never will GM) are both artifacts from something like four decades ago -- that's a time that came and went when even I was still in elementary school.

Algeh
2018-04-08, 11:24 PM
The one caution I'd have in your specific situation (changing the tone of a published setting to better fit the needs of your group) is that you definitely need to tell your players that you've done that.

Otherwise, they will be in for a rude surprise if they later join a game in that setting run by someone else who is going "by the book".

There's nothing wrong with changing things to fit your group as long as you're clear on that point, though. One of the main advantages to TTRPGs over computer games is the ease with which groups can change things to better suit what they're interested in.

Delta
2018-04-09, 02:38 AM
... or tell that that they don't know. In my last AD&D campaign, I included this in the introductory description



Nobody complained; everybody enjoyed the game; one player was quoting lines from my introduction years later.

This is the way to go about it. Nothing wrong with changing things, but be upfront about it. If a player gets a feat, magic item, skill or whatever expecting it to do "X", or even just comes to a city he knows some lore about so he expects fact "Y" to be true, to then be told "Oh, no, X/Y is really completely different, lol you thought you actually knew something about the game how cute!" can feel extremely unfair and arbitrary. If, for example, you tell them in advance "Magic items in this campaign world can and will have side effects that only manifest itself over time!", then a player can decide for himself whether to risk spending all his gold on the shiny sword of badassery +10, knowing full well that he might not get exactly what he wants.

Beneath
2018-04-09, 04:25 AM
My stance on canon setting lore is that anything published in a canon source but not actually seen in-game is something someone somewhere in the world claims is true, or thinks would make a good story.

You can handle contradictions pretty easily that way. Some people tell it one way, some people tell it another, the truth is probably something else entirely. As long as you're up-front with this and your version of the setting is close enough to the "canonical" version that it's plausible someone describing your setting would embellish/flatten it into the canonical version, you're good.

Rules, it's probably best to document your changes (and make sure they make the game more fun for everyone), but absolutely go ahead and change what you need. Used to be, it was standard in D&D that there'd be several-page house rules documents for every campaign to accommodate the rules to each GM's idiosyncracies, though I see that less often in 5e than even in 3e

Satinavian
2018-04-09, 05:42 AM
Nobody complained; everybody enjoyed the game; one player was quoting lines from my introduction years later.
That works very well for a game where the PCs are exploring an unknown world.

It doesn't work whenever this is not supposed to be the case. When the PCs are basically in the same region whehre the lived the last two decades of their life and which they know better than everything.

IME most of the time the latter is the case and such in-game surprises don't seem justified. Instead PCs seem constantly like morons because they really should have known.

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-09, 06:49 AM
Perhaps I should upload the work here so you can critique it for yourselves...

Lord Torath
2018-04-09, 08:41 AM
Perhaps I should upload the work here so you can critique it for yourselves...Only if you want to end up thoroughly confused. Any document submitted on this forum for review by two different forumites will receive no less than four different and conflicting opinions1, and the number of conflicting opinions goes up as the square of the respondents.

Seriously, though, if it works for your group, you don't need the permission of anyone here to continue. I've never really like the UberGrimDarkness of the setting myself, and mentally adjust the setting to fit how I want it.

Thanks, tensai_oni! I'd never heard of Brighthammer 40k before. My kids got a kick out it.

1. The Journal of Self-Serving Statistics 2018 Edition p348.

Satinavian
2018-04-09, 08:50 AM
Perhaps I should upload the work here so you can critique it for yourselves...
Only if you really want.

So far all you do sounds fine.

hamishspence
2018-04-09, 08:52 AM
In the original lore, befriending aliens was UNTHINKABLE HERESY but my players were interested in diplomacy with T'au, Eldar and even Orks so I changed the lore a bit so the Astartes including my players were much more "heroic" and less xenophobic death machines.

The Ciaphas Cain books have a bit of this for the Tau at least. And "Eldar fighting alongside Space Marines against Tyranids, and exchanging friendly banter" was a thing in fan fiction on the Portent.net rumour page, about 15 years ago.

And "mercenary orks hiring themselves out to human governments for short periods" is a thing.

While it might may the game "feel" more like Rogue Trader than Deathwatch, emphasing the willingness of humans on the borders of the Imperium to be more tolerant of aliens than humans further in, isn't too unfluffy.

Max_Killjoy
2018-04-09, 05:02 PM
That works very well for a game where the PCs are exploring an unknown world.

It doesn't work whenever this is not supposed to be the case. When the PCs are basically in the same region whehre the lived the last two decades of their life and which they know better than everything.

IME most of the time the latter is the case and such in-game surprises don't seem justified. Instead PCs seem constantly like morons because they really should have known.

The whole "green newb stumbling through the unknown" bit gets really old, really fast.

dps
2018-04-09, 09:48 PM
As a GM, you can't break the rules, because you make the rules. Just don't abuse that ability and be upfront about what you're doing, and you should be OK. Of course, if you're being upfront and tell your players that you're going to be using a rule that differs from what's in the published rulebooks, and there are objections to your rule, you should definitely take your players' reservations into consideration.

Mr Beer
2018-04-10, 12:45 AM
Tweaking a setting so players have more fun and it's more age appropriate and overall it's less of a somewhat silly uber-grimdark experience?

Uh yeah, that is fine. That's pretty much your job as a GM.

You may want to switch settings and/or systems from 40K though, the grimdark is somewhat baked in. But if it's going well, all good.

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-10, 01:04 AM
Changes to the 40k Galaxy:

About the Imperium of Man:
• The Emperor didn't die in the battle against Horus but instead went missing after sealing the Webway Gate beneath the Imperial Palace and using a secret power source that continues to power the Astronomican to this day.
• Warp Travel has become less dangerous but can be perilous for those who are not fully aware of the powers of Chaos.
• The Imperial Truth has managed to co-exist with the Imperial Creed and the Ecclesiarchy champions rational thinking as well as the veneration of the Emperor.
• Mutants are tolerated within the Imperium of Man but are more or less second class citizens.
• Adepta Sororitas, mainly the Sisters of Battle, undergo the process of being possessed by a lesser daemon and then freeing themselves through sheer will and faith in the Emperor in order to both become immune and, at the same time, gain a little bit of the daemon's power for themselves.
About Xenos:
• Jokaero: Jokaero are probably the only aliens the Imperium gets along with although their ways and behavior are poorly understood even in the best of times.
• Tau: The Imperium has strong ties with the Tau Empire although is fiercely critical of its philosophy though open war is rare (but does happen) and the usual form of conflict between the two empires is mostly just battles of propaganda and rap battles.
• Eldar & some Dark Eldar: The Eldar have always been a suspicious lot to the Imperium of Man and they are more than willing to return to favor but they can be reasoned with and not all of them are dismissive of other species.
• Ork: The Orks are ruled, through fear and awe, by an Ork Warboss known as Steelarse who champions an alliance with other species (because it's more "fun"), unwilling to target civilians (because it's not "fun") and is content to leave the territory of other species alone so long as said species play Blood Bowl with the Orks on an annual basis (and has mostly worked so far).
• Kroot: Kroot are usually associated with the Tau but the Imperium is willing to hire them as mercenaries every now and again.
• Vespid: The Vespid are also associated with the Tau but the Imperium has little contact with them as they rarely involve themselves with humans of the Imperium.
• Nicassar: Rarely encountered by the Imperium and they would like to keep it that way.
• Demiurg: The Imperium is willing to trade with them but encounters are extremely rare.
• Tyranids: All out war.
• Necrons: All out war as they seem to be hell-bent on feeding sentient creatures they encounter to their C'tan star gods.
• Dark Eldar: All out war and any sign of them on an Imperial world or territory requires the attention of the Inquisition.
• Hrud: All out war.
• Enslavers: All out war.

The Characters:

KILL-TEAM INGLORIOUS

The name "Inglorious" came from the players who wanted to name our Kill-Team after the Inglorous Bastards starring Brad Pitt. I balked at the idea at first as I am not a big fan of Quentin Tarantino but since they're the players anyway, I decided to roll with it. I know that since I've already twisted canon to a ludicrous degree that any die-hard 40k fan would probably declare me a heretic, I suppose that changing things further for the enjoyment of the players will make little difference in the long-run.

Anyway, I present to you Kill-Team Inglorious, Inquisitor Pax's Deathwatch Astartes. They were mustered as a suggestion from Chaplain Tiberius after the inquisitor was captured, tortured and heavily modified by Dark Eldar in Commorragh. As it is with most members of Deathwatch, the Kill-Team must learn skills other than warfare in order to be of greater service to the Imperium, including that of social interaction with other Imperial organizations, civilians, occasional xenos and, of course, one another.

Tiberius
Chapter: Exorcists
Role: Chaplain
Loadout:
• Astartes Flamer
• Crozius Arcanum

The eccentric leader of the Kill-Team, Tiberius is a veteran of many battles against foul daemons and heretics. He distinguished himself before his chapter as well as most of the Imperium after killing a Keeper of Secrets, a greater daemon of Slaanesh, using an Imperial Adept's mechanical pencil. It is through his honors that a young, Inquisitor Pax took an interest to the Exorcist and took him in as a Kill-Marine. It was also he who suggested to the Inquisitor to acquire a ten-Astartes strong Kill-Team after the latter was kidnapped, tortured and nearly killed by a Dark Eldar Haemonculus.

Over the years in service to an Inquisitor, Tiberius has become rather different from the Space Marine Chaplain he once was. Were he to be seen by his peers back in the Fortress-Monastery of the Exorcists, he would be seen as lenient or lax and would, according to him, probably excommunicated or executed for treachery or heresy. All in all, Tiberius is very laid back for an Astartes Chaplain and can often be seen sleeping with an open Codex Astartes covering his face. Nonetheless, he seems to be a very effective Space Marine and is particularly powerful against daemons and heretics and is considered a remarkable Chaplain of the Deathwatch due to his knowledge of other Astartes Chapters.

Oh, and Tiberius is essentially my GMPC.

Stefan
Chapter: Space Wolves
Role: Apothecary
Loadout:
• Thunderhammer
• Web Pistol
• Plasma Grenades

A total goof of a Space Marine, Stefan was sent to the Deathwatch as a kind of punishment although many will agree that it's not a very good one. As a Space Marine, Stefan is quite the gregarious type and spends much of his free time wooing women (including the Amazons, who mostly just ignore him) rather than training aboard the Silver Swan. What made him truly qualified to join the Deathwatch was when he managed to bring down a Dark Eldar Archon in the heat of battle all in a lame attempt to impress an Eldar Farseer. While the act itself was well-honored by his Chapter, his reason for doing so is generally seen as a mark of shame by his fellow Space Wolves.

Stefan has brought with him his faithful Fenrisian Wolf Fido, a truly powerful beast of war. While certainly terrifying to behold in battle, Fido is often said to be "cute" by others and the creature is friendly enough to return the affection to others his master allows him to. He is especially popular with children the Kill-Team encounters and has become one of the mascot for Inglorious along with Markus' psyber-raven Poe. The only problem with the huge Fenrisian Wolf is that he tends to urinate everywhere and chase messengers, postmen and Jeeves, Jericho's Watcher in the Dark, as if they were enemies of the Imperium.

Stefan was created and played by one of my older and more comical students and was more or less meant to be a joke. When asked, all my student said was he wanted to be a character similar to Chris Hemmsworth's portrayal of Thor.

Jericho
Chapter: Dark Angels
Role: Librarian
Loadout:
• Force Staff
• Astartes Plasma Pistol

Jericho became part of the Deathwatch after his company successfully defeated a Tyranid invasion on the planet Cennus. Jericho himself is quite the studious fellow, poring over books during his free time to understand various topics such as the various enemies of the Imperium, the customs and traditions of assorted Astartes Chapters, the duties and responsibilities of Adeptus Munitorum Adepts, common rituals practiced by the Ecclesiarchy, excerpts from the personal memoirs of Malcador the Sigilite, salacious diaries of the many lovers of Malcador the Sigilite, a look into the anatomy of an Eldar, the cultural habits of the Tau and the mating habits, techniques and positions of the Kroot. Jericho is perhaps one of the more knowledgable members of the Kill-Team alongside Tiberius and Alain.

As a follower, Jericho has a Watcher in the Dark whom the Kill-Team has come to call "Jeeves". A rather quiet fellow, Jeeves never speaks but willingly assists the Librarian wherever he goes. Jeeves has the tendency to appear out of nowhere, shocking or frightening most of everyone present but most especially the inquisitor. Jeeves also has an undying enmity for Fido, Stefan's Fenrisian Wolf and the two can often be seen chasing one another in circles.

Jericho is played by one of my more serious students and is deeply fascinated by the setting of Warhammer 40,000. Jericho's player has always been a fan of Doctor Strange and his rivalry with Stefan's player segues well into the friction between the Space Wolves and Dark Angels.

Alain
Chapter: White Scars
Role: Techmarine
Loadout:
• Omnissian Axe
• Arm-Mounted Las Pistol
• Shoulder-Mounted Grenade Launcher

In charge of maintaining the equipment of the Kill-Team, Alain fulfills a vital role among his peers. He was sent to the Deathwatch after participating in a daring raid against Tzeentchan cultists on the planet Halgor where they successfully put down a rogue psyker who almost succeeded in becoming a daemon prince. Alain is a very studious fellow, constantly testing, repairing and (when no one from the Adeptus Mechanicus is looking, meaning all the time) improving the Kill-Team's arsenal. He also keeps up with new updates on Adeptus Mechanicus technology so as to be always at the forefront at bettering the equipment used by the Kill-Team.

Alain keeps a servo-skull he calls "Skully" as his follower. He uses it for various tasks from scouting out an area, assisting in making repairs, attacking enemies with a mounted stubber or spying on the other members of the Kill-Team during the Techmarine's free time. Skully is prone to malfunctions and has, more than once, attempted to insert a probe into the inquisitor's nether regions.

Alain is played by another of my serious students who likes the Iron Man feel of Techmarines. His idea of his character came from imagining himself as Tony Stark.

Markus
Chapter: Raven Guard
Role: Kill-Marine
Loadout:
• Lightning Claws
• Raven Pattern Shotgun

The official scout and assassin of the Kill-Team, Markus is a master of stealth, subterfuge and sabotage. He was given the honor of joining the Deathwatch after he single-handedly assassinated a World Eater Chaos Champion. During his free time, Markus enjoys playing pranks on his teammates and the inquisitor often involving a wide number of tools and tricks with his most memorable one involving putting a squig in a toilet the inquisitor was going to use. There are those who theorize that Markus was actually sent to the Deathwatch so he will stop playing pranks on his fellow Raven Guard.

Markus has a follower in the form of Poe, a psyber-raven that serves as his spy and, occasionally, an attack animal. Poe seems to be more intelligent than most psyber-ravens and Markus, as well as the rest of the Kill-Team, suspect he may be approaching human levels of intellect. However, while he is certainly capable of saying the Emperor's Prayer and reciting the poems written by Markus, the psyber-raven more often spouts a mix of nonsense and obscenties, much to the Raven Guard's dismay such as when visiting a Sororitas Convent.

Markus was my student's idea of a Space Batman. Being one of my less serious students, he literally enjoyed making the character, in his own words, the ultimate prankster.

Caleb
Chapter: Ultramarines
Role: Keeper
Loadout:
• Standard Bolter with Mounted Knife Bayonet

Caleb is the quiet one among the Kill-Team and rarely speaks unless spoken to. The others have theories about the Ultramarine but so far, none of them have ever been proven. But while silent, his actions often prove louder than his words and none can question his abilities in combat.

Caleb belongs to one of my more quiet students. He enjoys the game enough but is a boy of few words, both in English and Korean, reflecting his character somewhat.

Hugis
Chapter: Salamanders
Role: Devastator Marine
Loadout:
• Heavy Bolter

Hugis is one of the more laid back members of the Kill-Team and is content to let the others lead the way. He patiently waits for orders whenever they are given and spends most of his time maintaining his own equipment. He does however have a growing liking for comics and has already collected quite a number of them in his quarters.

Hugis is an NPC and was meant to be a stereotypical "black dude".

Rolf
Chapter: Imperial Fists
Role: Tactical Marine
Loadout:
• Astartes Plasma Gun

Rolf has a strong sense of duty to the Kill-Team and tends to be quite the analyst. He often talks about missing his Chapter but is content to serve the inquisitor and bring honor to the Imperial Fists through his deeds in the Deathwatch. He has a growing passion for food and is known to hoard them in his quarters.

Rolf is another NPC and the other players envision him as looking similar to Homer Simpson of all people.

Tyrone
Chapter: Black Templars
Role: Assault Marine
Loadout:
• Chain-Sword
• Hand Flamer

Tyrone is a Space Marine eager for battle and serves as the Kill-Team's pointman in nearly all its engagements. Unfortunately, it is also due to his tendency to charge into just about any situation that his Kill-Team suffers troubles they usually aren't prepared for. Tyrone is also the religious type, much like other Black Templars, and often asks for visions from the Emperor.

Tyrone is, you guessed it, the Kill-Team's Leeroy Jenkins and is a comic-relief character.

Kevin
Chapter: Blood Angels
Role: Furioso Dreadnought
Loadout:
• Power Claw with Mounted Heavy Flamer
• Power Claw with Mounted Storm Bolter

Kevin was a Blood Angel Librarian who took a name for himself when he succeeded in killing a Genestealer Patriarch alone and put a decisive end to the Tyrannic War on the planet Vamondel. Unfortunately, the fierce Space Marine was badly injured in the battle and almost died from his wounds were it not for the timely intervention of his fellow Blood Angels, Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle who were on the scene. Now revived within the enormous chassis of a Furioso Dreadnought, Kevin continues to serve the Emperor by smiting His foes with the mightiest weapons available to the Adeptus Astartes and his vast Psychic Powers or, at least, when he is not sleeping or distracted.

Kevin is actually played by an 7 year old boy, one of my students. He said he wanted to play as a robot so we decided to let him have his fun. We handwave his often strange actions as a Dreadnought as the Blood Angel within is so badly damaged that he regresses to the mind of a child.

The Inquisitor's Retinue

Inquisitor Titus Pax

• Branch: Ordo Xenos
• Title: Inquisitor of the Maltheus Sector
• Loadout:
◦ Power Armour
◦ Power Fist
◦ Plasma Pistol

Despite his apparent youth, Inquisitor Pax is actually quite old and just recently reached 80. Many, including some readers out there, might assume that this is due to rejuvenant treatments but the truth is actually far more sinister. His unnatural youth is owed mainly to Dark Eldar technology and not something he is actually grateful for.

In a failed raid on a Dark Eldar facility, Inquisitor Pax was captured along with his original retinue, most of whom are now deceased. He was taken to the Dark Eldar city of Commorragh and given over to a Haemonculus by the name of Xyphus Titon, better known to his victims as "Needleface". It was there that the inquisitor met many others, some of whom would later become members of his new retinue. It was there that he met Commissar Orlov, Medic Ahmed and Operator Dolorosa along with other Imperial Guardsmen who had been captured by the Dark Eldar as well as a few xenos whom he would later associate with in his career.

Pax was at least 77 years old by then and Needleface took a special, perverse interest in the old inquisitor. Using some form of ancient technology, the Haemonculus reversed his age (albeit as painfully as possible) to that of 17 to make him a more "interesting plaything" as Xyphus put it. Thanks to being very old, Pax managed to partially free himself from his restraints and overpower the Haemonculus long enough for Tiberius (one of the few surviving members of his original retinue) to find him (don't ask) and rescue him.

Now Pax continues his duty to watch over the Maltheus Sector as before although, thanks to being de-aged, has a lot of awkward moments with those who don't believe he is who he says he is.

THE "AMAZONS"

The "Amazons" is the colloquial title given to the three Guardswomen who are members of the inquisitor's new retinue. Much like Pax, they too were victims of the Haemonculus Needleface and had their bodies and a portion of their minds modified to turn them into the "ultimate playthings" for other lords and ladies of the Dark Eldar. After Pax was freed and the Haemonculus dealt with, he set about freeing the Guardsmen captured by Needleface, including Commissar Orlov, Medic Ahmed and Operator Dolorosa. While majority of the Guardsmen returned to their respective regiments, there were those who swore their lives and loyalty to the inquisitor, including, of course, his "Amazons".

Sabina Orlov

• Regiment: Valhallan Ice Warriors
• Role: Commissar
• Loadout:
◦ Laspistol
◦ Power Maul

Sabina Orlov is actually just an expy of Forte Schtallen from Galaxy Angel, as per the insistence of my players, but is blonde with green eyes instead of Forte's red hair and blue eyes as well as having some similarities to Christie Allen of Dead or Alive. She has an obsession with firearms on par with that of Burt Gummer from the Tremors films and is somewhat paranoid just like him. Serves as the "keeper" of the armory aboard the Silver Swan although the members of Kill-Team Inglorious can choose to bypass her but nonetheless respect the commissar as a formality.

Yasmine Amhed

• Regiment: Tallarn Desert Raiders
• Role: Medic
• Loadout:
◦ Stub Automatic

The players wanted a dark-skinned beauty in the game so I gave them the go-ahead to make their own character and they came up with a character similar to Lisa Hamilton of Dead or Alive and Anastasia of Rumble Roses. While friendly and cheerful, the modifications done by Needleface to the poor Guardswoman has made her mind somewhat unstable. While certainly skilled as a medic, she has a penchant for giving her would-be patients the wrong medication such as giving them unnecessary enemas.

Imogen Dolorosa

• Regiment: Armageddon Steel Legion
• Role: Operator
• Loadout:
◦ Long-Las
◦ Hand Cannon

Dolorosa was more or less my own creation as I wanted to even out the Amazons with one more character, making them three, a la Charlie's Angels. A blue-eyed redhead with an interest in machines and vehicles, Dolorosa serves as the inquisitor's driver, usually ferrying him and the rest of his retinue aboard a chimera which she has gleefully named "Blunderbuss". Tomboyish and hot-headed, she is known for driving like crazy and causing lots and lots of collateral damage much to the horror of the inquisitor.

OTHER MEMBERS OF THE RETINUE

Augustus "Gus" Busey

• Affiliation: Adeptus Administratum
• Role: Acolyte/Thunderhawk Pilot
• Loadout:
◦ Shotgun

Gus was formerly just a space freighter pilot but his astounding piloting skills soon came to the attention of the inquisitor. Offered a chance to live a more dangerous but certainly more rewarding life, Gus chose to become the official pilot of the Edge of Glory, the Thunderhawk Kill-Team Inglorious has come to rely on for transport and combat support. So far, he seems to enjoy being the pilot of a Deathwatch Thunderhawk and the large salary certainly helps but he has more than once expressed an intent to resign his post but, so far, has never followed up on his prior statements.

Dassius Thewin

• Affiliation: Adeptus Astra Telepathica
• Role: Sanctioned Psyker
• Loadout:
◦ Power Blade
◦ Stub Revolver

An odd psyker with a flamboyant personality, he has access to the devastating powers of the Warp. Easily recognizable by his multi-colored hair. Said to have "something going on" with Inquisitor Nykkea of the Ordo Hereticus according to some Space Marines and Sisters of Battle.

Cham Dynos

• Affiliation: Adeptus Mechanicus
• Role: Tech-Priest
• Loadout:
◦ Combi-Bolter with Mounted Plasma Gun

A knowledgable tech-priest in charge of maintaining the Silver Swan. While seemingly working for Inquisitor Pax at the moment, he is quite a powerful figure who is quite renowned throughout the sector. He has a receding hairline that the Kill-Team will never stop making fun of.

444th OF THE DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG

Technically the redshirts/mooks of Inquisitor Pax's retinue which we have yet to flesh out and use in a campaign. We do plan to use them in a future session but we're not exactly sure when. So far, they stay aboard the Silver Swan to serve as the inquisitor's bodyguards and occasionally show up as extras and additional comic reliefs in a story full of them.

Colonel 69

• Regiment: Death Korps of Krieg
• Role: Commander
• Loadout:
◦ Command Baton
◦ Inferno Pistol

The official commander of 444th Platoon. His unfortunate designation has caused him no small amount of embarrassment. Uses his Command Baton on 34, 63 42 and 04 very often.

34

• Regiment: Death Korps of Krieg
• Role: Weapons Specialist
• Loadout:
◦ Flamer with Backpack Canister

As if the inquisitor could use more buffoons, 34 is a bumbling Guardsman with a penchant for reading materials with often "inappropriate" content.

63

• Regiment: Death Korps of Krieg
• Role: Sharpshooter
• Loadout:
◦ Sniper Rifle
◦ Autopistol

One of the extremely rare cases of a female among the Death Korps of Krieg, 63 is actually 34's sister (or seems to be), who takes her duties seriously.

42

• Regiment: Death Korps of Krieg
• Role: Heavy Weapons Specialist
• Loadout:
◦ Melta Gun

While seemingly more intelligent than 34 or 63, 42 is all too often dragged into the shenanigans and troubles of the other two, much to his horror.

04

• Regiment: Death Korps of Krieg
• Role: Breacher
• Loadout:
◦ Grenade Launcher

All too often, the victim of various incidents, 04 is well-known for being a jinx but has a penchant for miraculous survival.

Chad Hooper
2018-04-10, 02:26 PM
I have to work things a bit differently with setting lore, since I run a homebrew world. In one of my e-mails I told the players:


Your character knows absolutely nothing about our world and technology, as you know. Conversely, they know far more about Melkar in general than you do, especially their homelands. Always feel free (and occasionally obligated) to ask, "Would I know X?"

I do try to keep setting lore consistent. I like what I have, otherwise I'd have written it differently:smallcool:

With rules, I've told the players that just because a rule is in the books doesn't mean we *have* to use it. If it enhances play or doesn't detract/distract from play and role-playing we'll use it if it comes up. If it detracts from flow of play or some aspect of role-play/character development we won't use it.

An example: we use Second Edition AD&D rules. There is a "Percentage Chance to Learn Spell" listed for mages according to their Intelligence score. I don't use that rule because, if the dice say a mage can't learn a spell that the player *really* wants the character to have, that detracts from both the player's enjoyment of the game and the development of the character. Both of those effects in turn hamper role-play and may also detract from other players' enjoyment of the game.

I do use the "Max. Number of Spells per Level" rule from the same table, but that is, IMO, a tool to encourage players of mages to create their own spells. Creating spells allows a mage to have more per spell level than the INT rules state, and IIRC that is stated explicitly in the 2e PHB.

So, pick and choose. Use what works, don't use what doesn't. If you're not sure, maybe give it a shot and change it later if you don't like the results.

Psyren
2018-04-10, 04:55 PM
Yes, of course you can. Whether you should, depends on the specific change though.

GungHo
2018-04-11, 11:40 AM
Yes, just consider what it is you're trying to accomplish and have a "break point" in mind where you honestly have created enough work for yourself that you might as well play from scratch.

Also, for settings, if you want to change everything that makes the Forgotten Realms the Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance Dragonlance, just tell people "these are the maps I am using, but nothing from any sort of book you've ever read is going to help you", otherwise you're going to confuse the heck out of everyone and waste their time (and yours) by saying "no, that's not how it works", "no, that guy doesn't exist here", "no, Thay is actually full of very nice bunny people like the ones from Usagi Yojimbo". Be prepared to hand folks a delta document of some kind with the high points like Gravelock did below.

To that point, there's a lot of very nice maps and map generators you can find online that people won't have a lot of preconceptions about if you're like me and you just really want help with maps and stuff.

Illogictree
2018-04-11, 04:49 PM
The answer to your question is, "Yes, as long as it makes the game more fun for everyone at the table."

Also, don't think you have to look for "permission" to make changes to your games' lore and rules. Ultimately you're only accountable to the other people at the table. If someone who's not playing in your game objects, so what? The top priority for you as DM is that everyone at your table has a good time, and heck with what anyone else thinks.

Just try to think through the ramifications of what you change, especially when you make house rules.

I'd definitely play in a less grimdark, more Starcraft-y Warhammer 40,000 game btw. I can easily see the attraction to it. :) And it feels like nowadays even Games Workshop themselves are taking steps in that direction.

I do like the advice in this case that you make it clear you're bending the lore of WH40K. That way your players won't go into the other material with the wrong expectations. I don't think you have to actually TELL them everything you're changing in detail, just let them know things are different.

Also, as to changing systems mid-campaign, that seems like a bad idea and might confuse the players, especially since you seem to be playing with a group of mostly newbies. If you're all familiar with the system, why not use it? From what I've seen you don't seem to be bending the lore enough to worry about the rules not matching up.

kraftcheese
2018-04-11, 05:27 PM
Okay, perhaps I should be clearer. We are/were playing Deathwatch, a 40k RPG. My players are a bunch of Korean kids who wanted to play Space Marines without the HORRIFIC elements thrown in. Heck, they just fight Tyranids as they are similar to the Zerg of Starcraft which they are very familiar with just as, I suppose, the Adeptus Astartes are kinda similar to the Terrans at least in terms of appearances.

I am indeed very familiar with 40k lore but the goal was to make a "friendlier" setting than the usual. We have a 6-year-old who plays as a Furioso Dreadnought for one thing. The oldest player is at least 18 and he visibly balked at the Enemy Beyond and Black Crusade rulebooks and said that they make the game TOO HORRIFYING. Even as a 40k fanatic, I actually agree with him.

In the original lore, befriending aliens was UNTHINKABLE HERESY but my players were interested in diplomacy with T'au, Eldar and even Orks so I changed the lore a bit so the Astartes including my players were much more "heroic" and less xenophobic death machines.

Yes, all of you may now accuse me of ULTIMATE HERESY and declare EXTERMINATUS on me but I changed the rules for my players...

P.S. Do you guys know any other Sci-fi RPG like 40k but less HORRIFYING? Like maybe a Starcraft RPG?

To be clear:

My players wanted to be "heroes of the galaxy" not the "butchers of the galaxy" as the Astartes have become over centuries of grim darkness...

Honestly, what you did sounds perfectly fine, and is exactly the reason why so many games talk about loose adherence to the rules; you looked at your players and yourself, and more importantly you TALKED to your players about it, and then made a change that benefits your players!