LF critique, AoE-heavy build: Light Cleric/Fighter

[pygmybatrider]

Hey dudes,

I just discovered Spirit Guardians, and loved the idea of a raging fanatic cleric surrounded by a whirling vortex of angry spirits and then got sidetracked thinking of ways to double down on the AoE side of things, as it's something I've never really thought about or seen on the table before.

Our campaign is currently level 8, so I'm making this a thought experiment for a backup character.

Start fighter, go to 3 (Eldritch Knight), then 5 Light Cleric.

My group rolls for stats, but for this thread's sake I'll use point buy.

Edric Vander, VHuman EK 3/Light Cleric 5

STR: 8, DEX: 16, CON: 14, INT: 10, WIS: 18 (ASI), CHA: 8

63 HP, 20 AC (Half-plate, shield, Defense Fighting Style)

Starting Feat: Tossing up between Alert for initiative bonus, which will be important as shown below, Tough, Warcaster, and Resilient Wis/Dex.

Take GFB, Shield and Absorb Elements from EK. Bread and butter Light Cleric spells are Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, Fireball, and Burning Hands.

The way I'm seeing it, combat from a good position in front of a group of baddies looks like this.

Turn 1: Roll well for initiative with high Dex and Alert (?), Fireball those suckers, Action Surge, Spirit Guardians, run to within 15 feet of enemy.

Turn 2: Baddies have eaten 1 round of SG - if they are still together, sweet, Burning Hands the heretics. If not, Spiritual Weapon, and GFB with a shortsword if there are 2 of them together somewhere. +0 spellcasting mod, but the extra d8s are nice. From then on, the combination of SG, GFB and SW is a pretty decent loadout for no more spell slots.

Absorb Elements would help if you ever find yourself in a position where you need to drop a Fireball directly on top of yourself.

Obviously the build fares less well against single enemies, or after burning through Action Surge and all my Fireballs, but Fighter/Cleric is still a decent base to work with, from the frontlines or back.

It sounds like fun to me - am I missing anything here? Are there other builds that utilise a bunch of multi-target spells that you've tried? Love to hear your input.

[Matrix_Walker]

Very nice... Fighter/Clerics have always had a special place in my heart.

If the rolls don't give you a robust enough attack stat, Magic Initiate: Druid for Shillelagh might be a valued friend giving you something closer to a SAD build.

[Citan]

Hey dudes,

I just discovered Spirit Guardians, and loved the idea of a raging fanatic cleric surrounded by a whirling vortex of angry spirits and then got sidetracked thinking of ways to double down on the AoE side of things, as it's something I've never really thought about or seen on the table before.

Our campaign is currently level 8, so I'm making this a thought experiment for a backup character.

Start fighter, go to 3 (Eldritch Knight), then 5 Light Cleric.

My group rolls for stats, but for this thread's sake I'll use point buy.

Edric Vander, VHuman EK 3/Light Cleric 5

STR: 8, DEX: 16, CON: 14, INT: 10, WIS: 18 (ASI), CHA: 8

63 HP, 20 AC (Half-plate, shield, Defense Fighting Style)

Starting Feat: Tossing up between Alert for initiative bonus, which will be important as shown below, Tough, Warcaster, and Resilient Wis/Dex.

Take GFB, Shield and Absorb Elements from EK. Bread and butter Light Cleric spells are Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, Fireball, and Burning Hands.

The way I'm seeing it, combat from a good position in front of a group of baddies looks like this.

Turn 1: Roll well for initiative with high Dex and Alert (?), Fireball those suckers, Action Surge, Spirit Guardians, run to within 15 feet of enemy.

Turn 2: Baddies have eaten 1 round of SG - if they are still together, sweet, Burning Hands the heretics. If not, Spiritual Weapon, and GFB with a shortsword if there are 2 of them together somewhere. +0 spellcasting mod, but the extra d8s are nice. From then on, the combination of SG, GFB and SW is a pretty decent loadout for no more spell slots.

Absorb Elements would help if you ever find yourself in a position where you need to drop a Fireball directly on top of yourself.

Obviously the build fares less well against single enemies, or after burning through Action Surge and all my Fireballs, but Fighter/Cleric is still a decent base to work with, from the frontlines or back.

It sounds like fun to me - am I missing anything here? Are there other builds that utilise a bunch of multi-target spells that you've tried? Love to hear your input.
Hi!

This is a fine way to go.
There are other ways that your concept could work...
For example, sacrificing Fireball to get instead Plant Growth so you completely lock enemies into places (because its effect can combine with Spirit Guardians), but still getting Burning Hands because you swap Eldricht Knight with 4E Monk...

Or be a Divine Soul Sorcerer with a single-level dip into any other caster depending on whether you really want absorb Elements or not, and/or a single-level dip into Cleric or Fighter if you really want better armor: that way you can get most of what you want: Shield, Fireball and Spirit Guardians.

[djreynolds]

My love of booming blade coupled with spirit guardians and war caster is known.

So I would grab war caster.

Get in melee throw up spirit guardians, they flee use your reaction to smack them with booming blade. The enemy can stay and take radiant damage or flee and get thunder.

So get war caster. Rinse and repeat.

[Gungor]

iIRC, Even with action surge, you cannot cast both fireball and spirit guardians in the same round. I believe you can cast one spell of level 1 or higher and one cantrip. Still a cool build.

[DerpAlpaca8473]

I feel like Divine Soul Sorc with a 1-3 Level dip in Paladin might be better. You trade off action surge, cleric channel divinity, and absorb elements for: Smite Nova, Metamagic, 2d4 to a roll 1/short rest, Paladin Channel divinity (depending on the dip), Paladin 1st level spells (Compelled duel and various smites), and access to the Sorcerer spell list.

[DarkKnightJin]

iIRC, Even with action surge, you cannot cast both fireball and spirit guardians in the same round. I believe you can cast one spell of level 1 or higher and one cantrip. Still a cool build.

Action Surge is actually the only way to cast 2 Leveled Spells in a single turn.
Otherwise you'd be down to a Bonus Action Spell and a Cantrip.
Though most tables (house)rule that it's 1 Leveled Spell and 1 Cantrip per turn. It's just that most Cantrips have a casting time of 1 Action.

[pygmybatrider]

Thanks for all your responses! Definitely have some food for thought now.

@Matrix_Walker, Shillelagh is a great idea if the dice don't go my way. Nothing to do with my bonus action on the first round anyway. Thankyou!

@Citan, a Monk/Cleric would be a very interesting multiclass and would still fit the concept. Patient Defense on the round that you activate SG could be really useful. I never really looked at Plant Growth either, but 4 to 1 movement sounds awesome for keeping the baddies in clumps.

I had also largely ignored BB, due to the focus on multi-target damage, but it does pair well with SG, and with a Sorc multiclass could twin it.

@Gungor as I read it the limit on spells per round only applies if you use a bonus action to cast a spell. So no Misty Step > Fireball, but if you manage to get two actions through Surge, you can.


A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on Your Turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

There is no such restriction anywhere I can see on spells with a casting time on 1 action.

@DerpAlpaca, I've read about Paladin/Sorcerer multiclasses before but didn't really consider it for this build. Cleric AND Sorcerer spell lists together is definitely tempting. And missing Spiritual Weapon for consistent Smites/Quickened BB sounds juicy. So many options!

[CTurbo]

I love the Cleric/Fighter idea except I would do it with Tempest instead of Light for maximum blastiness. Booming Blade would be a staple. After Cleric 6, you would be able to drop TWO maxed damage thunder or lightning spells on something or somethings you REALLY want dead. I don't think there is any other combo that could do as much damage as a Tempest Cleric with an action surge.

Plus you get to deal reaction damage when hit. Sentinel is fun with this. If you're standing next to a buddy AND a bad guy, bad guy has to decide whether to attack you and get shocked, or attack your buddy and then get hit by you lol. Warcaster is great of course. Being able to knock around enemies with Lightning cantrips will be a blast too.

[pygmybatrider]

I love the Cleric/Fighter idea except I would do it with Tempest instead of Light for maximum blastiness. Booming Blade would be a staple. After Cleric 6, you would be able to drop TWO maxed damage thunder or lightning spells on something or somethings you REALLY want dead. I don't think there is any other combo that could do as much damage as a Tempest Cleric with an action surge.

Plus you get to deal reaction damage when hit. Sentinel is fun with this. If you're standing next to a buddy AND a bad guy, bad guy has to decide whether to attack you and get shocked, or attack your buddy and then get hit by you lol. Warcaster is great of course. Being able to knock around enemies with Lightning cantrips will be a blast too.

I thought about this, but Tempest Cleric really disappoints me with the lack of Thunder/Lightning spells available to them.

You have Thunderwave, which is a nice AoE but relatively low damage and it targets a Con save, Call Lightning which is concentration so can't be double-cast, and Destructive Wave which is awesome but won't come online until character level 11.

If they got Lightning Bolt, it'd be a clear choice. But I think otherwise I'd rather stick to Fireball and SG. Unless there are some spells that'd work with the combo I'm missing?

[CTurbo]

I thought about this, but Tempest Cleric really disappoints me with the lack of Thunder/Lightning spells available to them.

You have Thunderwave, which is a nice AoE but relatively low damage and it targets a Con save, Call Lightning which is concentration so can't be double-cast, and Destructive Wave which is awesome but won't come online until character level 11.

If they got Lightning Bolt, it'd be a clear choice. But I think otherwise I'd rather stick to Fireball and SG. Unless there are some spells that'd work with the combo I'm missing?

I don't think not having Lightning Bolt ruins Tempest at all. Thunderwave, Shatter, and Call Lightning all scale up pretty well and all hit multiple enemies. Shatter was my go-to spell with My Tempest Cleric. It can hit 12-16 creatures depending on how your DM rules it's radius on a grid.

You can get Lightning Lure which lets you pull AND push the enemy 10ft. Shocking Grasp would also push an enemy 10ft and it won't get to use it's reaction. You already know about Booming Blade but you can choose to max it's damage if you want which is useful on a crit.


Also, you should be able to use Call Lightning again in the same turn with an action surge.

[Aaron Underhand]

Hi,

Could you not achieve something similar with one level of sorcerer and 7 of cleric?

Stronger spellcasting, more cantrips, just loss of defence fighting style.

Something like:

Str 9 Dex 13+1 Con 14, Int 8, Wis 15+1+2 (ASI) Cha 13 - AC19 Half Plate+ Shield

Feat - Mage Initiate (Druid), for Shillelagh, plus Thorn Whip (keep them close) or Thunderclap (for tempest to replace Burning Hands) and Absorb Elements (once/day)

Sorcerer for Con saves, BB, GFB, Firebolt and either Chill Touch or Acid Splash, plus Shield spell, and one other (Feather fall for another reaction spell?)

You shouldn't need to worry about a free hand as if you drop your Shillelagh you can just recast it next turn, but it's worth getting Warcaster next level for the improved Con saves and BB as an opportunity attack