Weapon Focus: to +1 or not to +1

[Eric Diaz]

I'm writing a "Manual of Arms" for 5e and I'm creating a bunch of new feats for simple weapons, versatile weapons, thrown weapons, etc. I want them to be quite similar to one another, so I'm starting with the "Weapon Focus" feat from 3e.

Now, even though I like the UA feats for spears and swords, I'm not particularly a fan of the +1s, and I'm a bit wary of giving +1s to ranged and heavy weapons because of the existing feats.

Another idea I tried is rerolling all natural 1s when you attack. The effect is smaller, but more elegant IMO, although it does introduce a new mechanic in the game.

Rerolling one missed attack per turn is another idea, but seems to powerful for rogues, for example.

(of course, the feat is not limited to this: a feat might include "Weapon Focus", a increase in range, and a few options of fighting styles, for example).

My question is: to +1 or not to +1? Do these small bonuses bother you like they bother me? Do you prefer something else? Etc.

[Beelzebubba]

With Bounded Accuracy, a +1 is not small. Be careful.

[Naanomi]

I wouldn’t. If necessary, I’d simulate the concept by making them a half-Feat (which results in a bonus to hit, without ultimately breaking bound accuracy)

[Belier]

Versatile master -
When you make an attack with a versatile weapon you are holding with both hands, you
Can also hit one creature adjacent to you and your target as a bonus action.
All versatile weapon have the finess property for you.

Note that a melee ranger with ranger could apreciate this as it will combine with hoard breaker possibly hitting the same foe twice or 3 different ennemies. They wont feel sad about another player doing something similar for a feat because they themselves can benefit from it and they feat is slightly weaker than the class archetype feature.

Throwing master
When you throw a weapon with the thrown property, you can forgo your proficiency bonus on the attack roll to add it on the damage roll instead
All thrown weapon have the finess property for you.

Note that I aint adding the remove disadvantage on the range thrown because to me it is more something that should be covered with ranged property and sharpshooter feat. But you could add the ranged property instead of finess if you d wish to make it compatible with sharpshooter.

Id say not to +1 since it is covered by spear masters and such feats.

[Arkhios]

With Bounded Accuracy, a +1 is not small. Be careful.

This. If I would make a Weapon Focus, I would move away from past editions and simply have it increase damage rolls, not attack rolls.

[mephnick]

This. If I would make a Weapon Focus, I would move away from past editions and simply have it increase damage rolls, not attack rolls.

Yeah. Duelist fighting style is much better designed than Archery fighting style for tgis reason. A higher hit bonus just interacts with the system in too many powerful ways whereas damage bonuses are simply a nice bump.

[LtPowers]

Another idea I tried is rerolling all natural 1s when you attack. The effect is smaller, but more elegant IMO, although it does introduce a new mechanic in the game.

Actually it doesn't, and that's part of the problem. Such a feat would be useless to all Halflings, and would make Halflings feel less special if their companions took it.


Powers &8^]

[Belier]

Actually it doesn't, and that's part of the problem. Such a feat would be useless to all Halflings, and would make Halflings feel less special if their companions took it.


Powers &8^]

100% agreeing with this.

[Eric Diaz]

Actually it doesn't, and that's part of the problem. Such a feat would be useless to all Halflings, and would make Halflings feel less special if their companions took it.


Powers &8^]

Uh, I had completely forgotten that! You're right, thank you!

EDIT: come to think of it, maybe using as weapon focus it and let halflings pick a different "lucky number" if they want to might cause less problems than giving +1 to-hit. But yeah, "lucky" would be a lot less special in these circumstances.

[Eric Diaz]

Seems like most design spaces for improving weapons are already filled: bonuses to hit (archery), better crits (extra damage, more dice), more damage (dueling, ranger features), roll more dice (savage attacker)... There must be some easy solution I'm missing.

Maybe adding half prof bonus to damage?

It seems +1 damage would be a decent, if lackluster, solution.

[Arkhios]

Seems like most design spaces for improving weapons are already filled: bonuses to hit (archery), better crits (extra damage, more dice), more damage (dueling, ranger features), roll more dice (savage attacker)... There must be some easy solution I'm missing.

Maybe adding half prof bonus to damage?

It seems +1 damage would be a decent, if lackluster, solution.

Hexblade's Curse does add your whole proficiency to your damage rolls against the cursed target as long as it lasts, so there's that. But I don't think there's another way to add only half proficiency. Still, as always I believe you can add proficiency (or half of it) only once to any single roll.

[Gilrad]

If I were to do a manual of arms (and Lord knows ideas have been percolating since I started 5e), here is how I would do it:

-strip away all combat-only feats and fighting styles.

-some stripped features get added to base combat abilities (e.g. all polearms get the 1d4 bash but it's treated like an off hand attack).

-Fighting styles are where static bonuses live. Things that always applies with no action tax.

-everything else is turned into "weapon masteries", which are basically bite-sized things you can spend bonus actions and reactions on, like the PAM opportunity attack-on-entering-reach. Martial classes get 3-4 picks, fighters get like 6-8, champions get all of them eventually.


This way, you don't have to worry about balance too much because the meat and potatoes of the system is bottlenecked by the action economy.

[Vogie]

You could also make bonuses contingent on other things.

For example, a thrown weapon mastery may have a:

+3 to hit at short range, but +1 or +0 at long range, (or the opposite); or
+2 to hit with there aren't any other targets within 5 feet of the target, or
distracting effect, making the next attack against the target by an attacker other than you has advantage if the attack is made before the start of your next turn
curving effect, so when you make an attack roll with a thrown weapon and miss, you can use a bonus action to reroll the attack roll against a different target within X feet of the original target.

[PhoenixPhyre]

You could also make bonuses contingent on other things.

For example, a thrown weapon mastery may have a:

+3 to hit at short range, but +1 or +0 at long range, (or the opposite); or
+2 to hit with there aren't any other targets within 5 feet of the target, or
distracting effect, making the next attack against the target by an attacker other than you has advantage if the attack is made before the start of your next turn
curving effect, so when you make an attack roll with a thrown weapon and miss, you can use a bonus action to reroll the attack roll against a different target within X feet of the original target.


That's way too fiddly for 5e. Stacking bonuses, especially if conditional, are strongly disfavored.

[Vogie]

That's way too fiddly for 5e. Stacking bonuses, especially if conditional, are strongly disfavored.

I was giving examples. Putting all those together would be ridiculously absurd

[PhoenixPhyre]

I was giving examples. Putting all those together would be ridiculously absurd

Even so, I'm strongly against things that make me recalculate my ATK and DMG bonuses on the fly, especially if I have to do that for just about every attack. That's what advantage/disadvantage are for.

Note that all the other fighting styles are either static bonuses (+2 ATK, +2 DMG with <class of weapon>) or active abilities (Protection style). Conditionals in action resolution are decidedly odd in this edition. The only one I'm aware of is cover (half/total). And that gets ignored a lot.

The "if you miss, you can roll against someone nearby instead" one makes sense.

[Eric Diaz]

If I were to do a manual of arms (and Lord knows ideas have been percolating since I started 5e), here is how I would do it:

-strip away all combat-only feats and fighting styles.

-some stripped features get added to base combat abilities (e.g. all polearms get the 1d4 bash but it's treated like an off hand attack).

-Fighting styles are where static bonuses live. Things that always applies with no action tax.

-everything else is turned into "weapon masteries", which are basically bite-sized things you can spend bonus actions and reactions on, like the PAM opportunity attack-on-entering-reach. Martial classes get 3-4 picks, fighters get like 6-8, champions get all of them eventually.


This way, you don't have to worry about balance too much because the meat and potatoes of the system is bottlenecked by the action economy.

I like this, but I"m not trying to rewrite the system - just adding a few feats and options that do not exist in 5e (feats for throwers, versatile weapons, etc).

You're right about the action economy - maybe every feat should interact with bonus action/reaction somehow.

[Eric Diaz]

You could also make bonuses contingent on other things.

For example, a thrown weapon mastery may have a:

+3 to hit at short range, but +1 or +0 at long range, (or the opposite); or
+2 to hit with there aren't any other targets within 5 feet of the target, or
distracting effect, making the next attack against the target by an attacker other than you has advantage if the attack is made before the start of your next turn
curving effect, so when you make an attack roll with a thrown weapon and miss, you can use a bonus action to reroll the attack roll against a different target within X feet of the original target.


Last two are very good!

[Vogie]

Last two are very good!

I can't take credit - they're basically the maneuver from Battlemaster Fighter and the Curving shot from Arcane Archer. However, they're niche enough that you can find something like that and tie them in. The Curved Shot gives a Xena-Warrior Princess type of feel, while the using a thrown weapon to distract someone makes other thematic sense - you've already conceded you're not going to do a lot of damage, so it turns the throw into a sort of debuff.

If you're trying to make a role interesting, there's a myriad of ways of doing it.

Maybe they're going to excel at dealing damage to isolated targets, which is the opposite of most abilities that give boons when targets are close together
Maybe a master thrower has an extra attack if the only thing they do is throw weapons ("Dagger, Dagger, Dagger"), or can do it very quickly to augment other attacks (think War Magic, but for throwing instead of cantrips)
Maybe it just needs a really boring, mechanical feat like Crossbow Expert that doesn't add anything interesting, or create a new style of play but just smooths out the rough edges.

[JPicasso]

Instead of a straight +1 or +2 to damage, how about bumping up the base damage dice by a die and a half for a group of weapons?

So, if they normally do a 1d6, do 2d4, or 1d8 would be 2d5. ... or maybe just 2d6. But then there isn't even more modifiers to remember, and it makes the character beefier.

[Eric Diaz]

Instead of a straight +1 or +2 to damage, how about bumping up the base damage dice by a die and a half for a group of weapons?

So, if they normally do a 1d6, do 2d4, or 1d8 would be 2d5. ... or maybe just 2d6. But then there isn't even more modifiers to remember, and it makes the character beefier.

Interesting!

The main problem here is d12 weapons and barbarians, I think. I dislike using d5s. But bumping up the base damage dice is a good idea.

1d4- 2d3
1d6 - 2d4
1d8 - 2d6
1d10 - 2d8
1d12/2d6 - 2d10

Hum... could work