Making the War Cleric better at being a Warrior?

[CTurbo]

It seems that the War Cleric is generally regarded as lacking when compared to some of the other "melee" focused Clerics, or maybe it's just lacking in melee in general.

So is there a way that it could be "fixed" or at least a way to make it better without overdoing it?

Does it even need to be fixed? I know some people are fine with it the way it is, but I've seen so many more people complaining about it, and from what I've seen in gameplay, they end up just relying on spells in the mid to higher levels anyway.

For starters, I think that maybe War should have been the only domain that should have gotten full weapons and armor proficiency. Well, I can see letting Life have full armor proficiency but that's it. Just those two. That would have helped things a bit I think.

I do like the idea of a Cleric of war.

I think the most obvious fix would be to simply give the domain a 2nd attack even if it's at a higher level than 5 or 6. Maybe level 11? At some point, it really needs a full second attack, and that is with keeping the Wis mod bonus attack the same. Some say that this is a little too OP, and maybe it is.

Another think I came up with is to allow the War domain to use it's Divine Strike on the bonus attack too. That would really up the melee damage.

Another idea would be to have some kind of feature that allows for a reaction attack similar to the Sentinel feat, which is so good on a Cleric.

What does everybody think?

[Merudo]

IMO the two problems with the War Cleric is (1) the bad and boring spell list (only Crusader's Mantle can be a standout, if you have the party for it) and (2) the fact that Spirit Weapon directly competes with the War Priest ability "when you use the Attack action, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action" feature. The later is especially bad at higher levels, where an upcasted Spirit Weapon is typically more likely to hit and does more damage.

Fixing either of these problems would make the class good, and fixing both would make it a top choice.

IMO the simplest fix would be to simply upgrade the War Priest ability at level 6 so that it no longer takes a bonus action to attack twice. The Cleric can now attack an enemy twice and also use the Spiritual Weapon ability. Waiting until level 6 for the upgrade makes sure martials get Extra Attack before the War Cleric gets the equivalent. I'd keep the same limit on the number of times you can use War Priest per day, however.

A revised spell list would also be great. Interesting war related spells I'd love to see: Catapult, Heroism, Find Steed, Circle of Power, Conjure Volley, Steel Wind Strike

[the_brazenburn]

No, the simplest solution is to roll a Paladin.

War Clerics are fine as they are. They aren't supposed to be primary frontliners in their own right. It's just a cleric that's a little better at melee combat.

[SirGraystone]

If they want to fight like a fighter, let them multiclass. On the domain spell Divine Favor, Shield of Faith give you extra damage or armor class which is good in melee, Magic Weapon let your or someone else hit monster resistant to weapon, Spiritual Weapon let have extra attack at level 3. Crusader's Mantle is Divine Favor but to all the group, Spirit Guardians can do a lot of damage when you holding the line.

[CTurbo]

The problem is that they are WAR Clerics, yet they are overshadowed by other domains as "melee combatants"

I think they need more distinction in the Cleric class. Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians are things that all Clerics can do.

I agree that the War Cleric should not be as good at Fighting as a Fighter, but I think a WAR Cleric should be the best Cleric at fighting.

[kardar233]

Giving War Cleric a real Extra Attack at 6th means a huge spike in DPR that lets them easily eclipse Fighters. Imagine a Cleric with Spirit Guardians up, making two attacks and one Spiritual Weapon attack each turn.

The most glaring problem is the Skornergy of War Priest and Spiritual Weapon. I think the smallest fix for that is to make War Priest not take any action, allowing it to work with SW for the Wis/Long uses you get. That doesn’t sound too powerful and encourages you to attack.

If you want to boost War further, which I think is probably reasonable (overshadowed as it is by Tempest), I’d think about going in any of a couple different directions:
- give it easy access to Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade, or possibly its own attack cantrip. Might want to also change War Priest to work with those.
- give it access to some of the Paladin Smites as domain spells. You’d have to be careful not to tread too heavily on Paladin toes (probably don’t give Wrathful Smite, for example).
- give it some kind of concentration or defensive bonus. The main frustration I saw our Tempest Cleric have was losing Spirit Guardians concentration during the fight, so having some kind of tool to deal with that would be nice.
- ability to cast some more Cleric spells as bonus actions so that your main action can be to attack. Otherwise, something like the War Magic ability of EK/Valor Bard.

I’d also consider something like a Sentinel-lite to make them stickier and better at protecting the squishies.

[CTurbo]

Giving War Cleric a real Extra Attack at 6th means a huge spike in DPR that lets them easily eclipse Fighters. Imagine a Cleric with Spirit Guardians up, making two attacks and one Spiritual Weapon attack each turn.

The most glaring problem is the Skornergy of War Priest and Spiritual Weapon. I think the smallest fix for that is to make War Priest not take any action, allowing it to work with SW for the Wis/Long uses you get. That doesn’t sound too powerful and encourages you to attack.

If you want to boost War further, which I think is probably reasonable (overshadowed as it is by Tempest), I’d think about going in any of a couple different directions:
- give it easy access to Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade, or possibly its own attack cantrip. Might want to also change War Priest to work with those.
- give it access to some of the Paladin Smites as domain spells. You’d have to be careful not to tread too heavily on Paladin toes (probably don’t give Wrathful Smite, for example).
- give it some kind of concentration or defensive bonus. The main frustration I saw our Tempest Cleric have was losing Spirit Guardians concentration during the fight, so having some kind of tool to deal with that would be nice.
- ability to cast some more Cleric spells as bonus actions so that your main action can be to attack. Otherwise, something like the War Magic ability of EK/Valor Bard.

I’d also consider something like a Sentinel-lite to make them stickier and better at protecting the squishies.



I agree with most of this. I think if you did allow them a second attack, it'd need to be at a higher level than 6. Maybe 9 or 11 for example.

I also considered the idea of giving them a reaction attack possibility similar to the Sentinel feat as you mentioned.

[clash]

Multiclass with Ranger:

Hunter ranger gives half-spellcasting progression, fighting style, extra attack, and potentially another attack via hordebreaker. Add 5 levels of ranger to war cleric and you have a good fighting cleric.

[stoutstien]

Just give war cleric extra attack Wis mod times a day so it frees up ba. Heck just give them extra attack at lv 6

[Potato_Priest]

The problem is that they are WAR Clerics, yet they are overshadowed by other domains as "melee combatants"

I think they need more distinction in the Cleric class. Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians are things that all Clerics can do.

I agree that the War Cleric should not be as good at Fighting as a Fighter, but I think a WAR Cleric should be the best Cleric at fighting.

There's not a domain out there that can overshadow a war cleric as a melee combatant. Tempest might (see:probably does) overshadow it as a caster, but it's pretty clear that they get less boosts to melee specifically. Nature comes close since it's pretty SAD with shillelagh, but if you get halfway decent stats a warcleric with GWM still ought to outperform the nature cleric with their channel divinity and bless stacking up large bonuses to attack rolls.

The war cleric certainly isn't miles ahead of its brethren in melee power, but that doesn't mean that it isn't in the lead.

[Sigreid]

I don't think I agree with the premise that the war cleric should be a better fighter than the other clerics. The best warrior is not an individual combatant. The best warrior is the one that inspires his unit to be a fearless, cunning, cohesive group.

Come to think of it, I personally think I might take some of what people have been saying they want a warlord for and make the war cleric the warlord subclass if I were going to re-write war cleric.