Smoking Out a Cave

[ComaVision]

I'm looking for some advice for DMing my game. I have a tribe of kobolds that have managed to be an ongoing threat to my group by being crafty and setting up traps and ambushes. They've also started forcibly enslaving recruiting other kobold tribes around the area to further their influence.

The group has attacked their main cave multiple times but have always been eventually repelled, to the extent that they don't know what the majority of the cave interior looks like and don't know how many kobolds there are total. Their new plan is to smoke them out, building a fire in the cave mouth and covering it so the smoke eventually fills it to force the kobolds to fight on the group's terms.

Bluntly, I don't know how to deal with this. I'm not aware of any in game rules that cover that, and don't have a great understanding of how quick/effective it would be. Does the playground have any advice, or examples of how it could be run?

[daremetoidareyo]

Do you know the number of exits for the cave?

Also, this might be a part where the dwarf stone cutting ability is actually useful, if your party has a Dorf

[ComaVision]

Do you know the number of exits for the cave?

Also, this might be a part where the dwarf stone cutting ability is actually useful, if your party has a Dorf

I'm the DM. I don't think the party is planning to bring any dorfs (there's a stable of characters).

The first cave level has two exits to the surface. The second cave level, where the vast majority of the kobolds reside, only has one connection to the first cave level. They could certainly get to the connection to the second cave level but I believe they intend to smoke out the cave from the surface. I assume that would pretty much fail unless they block both exits (which are miles apart and would likely force them to split).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by ComaVision
Their new plan is to smoke them out, building a fire in the cave mouth and covering it so the smoke eventually fills it to force the kobolds to fight on the group's terms.

What does the last phrase mean? What exactly are the players trying to accomplish? Do they want the kobolds to run out of the cave, or congregate near the cave mouth?

If the cave complex is as extensive as it sounds, then one fire at the cave mouth won’t do much more than reduce visibility around the cave mouth itself. If the players build a huge bonfire, that might send some smoke further down, but caves often have fine cracks that allow for ventilation—and the kobolds, being expert miners, may well have supplemented with boreholes to ensure steady airflow. I wouldn’t put it past kobolds to have a system for shunting smoke through particular vents, just in case of this situation.

In fact, if these are especially cunning kobolds, I could imagine they’d have a contingency prepared, perhaps a false panic to draw the intruders (your PCs) deeper into the tunnels for picking off one by one. At the very least I’d expect them to be able to deal with the smoke without any difficulty.

[Venger]

if your gm has the kobolds act with anything approaching reasonable AI, they're not going to just sit there and be gassed. kobolds are well known as being good miners and cavedwellers. even if they don't have chimneys and shunts to repel such attacks (or y'know, let them cook food and stuff) it would be trivial for them to construct some in a matter of rounds given how mining works in the game.

this sets aside that smoke is will be buoyed by the thermal air currents from the fire you presumably use to create it.

depending on your party's class and level, the traditional method to gas enemies in a cave is cloudkill, since the fumes are lethal and they are explicitly heavier than air and roll forward on their own. if time isn't a factor, one or more decanters of endless water to murder everyone in the cavern by drowning is also an option that won't cost any slots.

though if you don't know anything about the layout or interior, the kobolds are known for kidnapping people, and you want to save the people instead of murdering them too (which it sounds is the case) then you may want to avoid these tactics.

[daremetoidareyo]

I'm the DM. I don't think the party is planning to bring any dorfs (there's a stable of characters).

The first cave level has two exits to the surface. The second cave level, where the vast majority of the kobolds reside, only has one connection to the first cave level. They could certainly get to the connection to the second cave level but I believe they intend to smoke out the cave from the surface. I assume that would pretty much fail unless they block both exits (which are miles apart and would likely force them to split).

i would give a knowledge dungeoneering check (around DC 18-23) or a slightly higher survival/bardic knowledge check (add 5 to the dungeoneering DC) as an opportunity for the PCs to put some of that together before going into the plan at this level of blindness.

Typical number of exits for a subterranean/surface hominid would be one check, how much fuel to fill the upper part of the cave complex could be another, stuff like that.

After the fire burns for a few hours, give another check to see if PCs can determine the other exits by seeing smoke fumes, give a bonus to finding the other exits if they have access to a sentient or trained creature with the scent ability. Another bonus for having nature sense as a class ability.

Other than that, you can make the percentage of the upper cave smoked out contingent on a skill DC. Skills that you can base it on are the following, all of which could probably fairly be ruled to provide a synergy bonus with each other: profession smithing, craft smithing, survival, k. dungeoneering, k. nature, profession chef, profession farmer. Other players with ranks in any of those skills, or ranks in k. architecture engineering, nature sense, or dwarf stonecutting can roll aid another checks to the player who becomes the task leader. And then set the DCS. I would probably do something like this

10=40% of the area in the upper level of the cave,
15 = 60% upper cave,
20 = 80% upper cave
25 = 100% upper cave
30 = 100% upper cave, the entrance areas and halls attached to the of 2nd level/1st level access point
35 = 100% upper cave, entrance areas and halls of 2nd level, and 10% of other 2nd level areas attached to the entrance and halls
40 = 100% upper cave, entrance areas and halls of 2nd level, and 20% of other 2nd level areas attached entrance and halls.

[ComaVision]

What does the last phrase mean? What exactly are the players trying to accomplish? Do they want the kobolds to run out of the cave, or congregate near the cave mouth?
Sorry, I guess that isn't very specific at all. They want to force the kobolds to fight them outside the cave. As one would expect, the kobolds are very weak in a straight up fight.


If the cave complex is as extensive as it sounds, then one fire at the cave mouth won’t do much more than reduce visibility around the cave mouth itself. If the players build a huge bonfire, that might send some smoke further down, but caves often have fine cracks that allow for ventilation—and the kobolds, being expert miners, may well have supplemented with boreholes to ensure steady airflow. I wouldn’t put it past kobolds to have a system for shunting smoke through particular vents, just in case of this situation.


That's what I was thinking. The complex is large enough that the kobolds would have ample time to do whatever they need to before the smoke would reach the lower caves.


depending on your party's class and level, the traditional method to gas enemies in a cave is cloudkill, since the fumes are lethal and they are explicitly heavier than air and roll forward on their own. if time isn't a factor, one or more decanters of endless water to murder everyone in the cavern by drowning is also an option that won't cost any slots.

Those would definitely do the trick very well. Fortunately for my scaley friends, those options are out of reach of the group for now.


though if you don't know anything about the layout or interior, the kobolds are known for kidnapping people, and you want to save the people instead of murdering them too (which it sounds is the case) then you may want to avoid these tactics.

Good point. These kobolds do have a background of kidnapping and enslavement. Perhaps it's time they raize an outlying farm and kidnap some more children, to remind the party.

EDIT: Very helpful guidelines, dare. Thank you.

[Goaty14]

though if you don't know anything about the layout or interior, the kobolds are known for kidnapping people, and you want to save the people instead of murdering them too (which it sounds is the case) then you may want to avoid these tactics.

I second hostages, you could introduce this factor by...
-Sending out a hostage once the smoke starts to get in ("Help! my family is still in there!")
-The PC's informant ("We also believe that they have some victims associated with recent kidnappings..." If they murderhobo them anyways, show some dead bodies inside when they go in to loot)
-Note from the kobolds ("If ye wan de pueples, 5,000 GP or else!!1!")
-Screams ("You hear a guttural scream coming from the warren -- it definitely isn't a kobold")
-Subtle hints ("Outside the warren you notice some pairs of rusty manacles, and a rope connecting them -- it appears the kobolds did more than just murder", "A sign is displayed to the right of the entrance, it shows crude drawings of people and numbers" (to infer that they are slavers))
-"Random" Encounter (Depending on when the PCs get there, a war party is coming back from a kidnapping, and either the PCs encounter them entering the warren, or they encounter the PCs at the entrance)
-???

[BassoonHero]

Kobolds are experienced miners and trapsmiths, and the player's plan is foreseeable. If I were in charge of the kobolds, here's what I'd do.

First, we need to block up the smoked-out entrance. Presumably, this is the main, "public" entrance, the one intended to be found first by would-be invaders. There should be some way to collapse this entrance, and a little work should make it airtight. If a lot of smoke has accumulated, we'll have to vent it. There should be a few external ventilation shafts to the surface; depending on the wind, we may need to open more or fewer of them.

Second, we need to ensure a secure perimeter. We'll double the guard on the other entrances and make sure that every member of the tribe is ready to fight if needed. The traps should be inspected, refilled, et cetera. All lights should be put out. We'll have to send out a scouting party to see how many attackers there are and how they're armed, provided with some kind of signal in case they can't safely make it back inside. (They shouldn't try to take on the invaders themselves.)

Third, we have to repel the attack. Time is on our side: we have a secure fortress, numerical superiority, the advantage of terrain outside, and (probably) superior night vision. If we're lucky, the players will continue trying to smoke us out until nightfall. At that point, we can kill them by a thousand pinpricks. First, we'll set traps on their likely routes of retreat. These traps should be designed to disrupt, not kill -- slow their progress, damage their equipment. Then, once the scene is prepared, we send skirmishers to harass them, most likely with crossbows. When they respond, the skirmishers will disappear into concealed hideouts. If the adventurers leave camp, then the other squad will steal or destroy anything they've left behind and put out their fire. If they split the party, we can try to pin down one group while assaulting the other. If no opportunity presents itself, then no problem -- we'll wait an hour and do it again. There's no way they'll get eight hours of rest to prepare spells. If the attackers (wisely) retreat to friendly territory before nightfall, then hopefully we can track them and be ready with an early warning when they come back. We should also have time to call in reinforcements from our vassal tribes, particularly more spellcasters. A single sorcerer with invisibility or pyrotechnics would be a massive force multiplier for our skirmisher squads.

Conversely, what the PCs need to do (if they can't simply "storm the castle" in one go) is establish and maintain tactical superiority on the surface. This means calling in reinforcements. Is there some town under threat from these kobolds? With the aid of a couple dozen low-level soldiers, the players could set up a fortified position near the known entrance. They could build a wooden stockade, dig a dry moat, and keep a thorough watch. Operating in broad daylight, the PCs could scout the entrances, block up air shafts, and generally be an intolerable nuisance, forcing the kobolds to attack the PCs and soldiers on prepared ground. Resupply would be difficult at best, so the PCs will need to resolve the situation within the span of a few days.

[Goaty14]

[snip]

I don't think the DM can do all of that, especially given that the players have (unsuccessfully) attempted to raid this warren before, and it might be perceived as the DM metagaming to prevent a creative solution. Though, if the players attempt this unsuccessfully, they might note the kobolds start to hastily make more defenses.

[Red Fel]

I am all in favor of this backfiring (pun intended) horribly.

First: The thing about smoking out your prey is that you have to lay in wait for the ambush. That is, the PCs will need to wait somewhere near the cave mouth if they want their plan to succeed.

Kobolds are weak, but they're experts on traps and ambushes. They also more or less exclusively live in caves, and are familiar with all aspects of cave life - including proper ventilation and the old "smoke 'em out" trick. In short, they know this trick and can turn it against the PCs.

One option is to simply wait the PCs out. Hours, maybe days pass. The PCs get tired, their watch slips. Meanwhile, a band of Kobolds sneaks out of the other cave mouth under cover of night, surrounds the PCs, forces surrender without a fight. Maybe ambushes from the bushes.

(If the PCs completely seal up one cave mouth and wait by the other, simply have the Kobolds extinguish the fire and reopen the cave mouth like nothing happened, then laugh. Lots of laughing.)

Another is to drag the PCs down to the Kobolds' level in a literal sense. Kobolds are not only expert trapmakers, they're also expert diggers. Do you know what combines those two skills? Sinkholes.

Do you honestly believe that the Kobold warren goes straight and exclusively down? No! That thing's like an anthill, spreading out in every direction. It's only natural that they'd have a series of collapsible tunnels extending around the cave entrances, to drop large groups of attackers deep into a rocky tomb and enable them to be picked off one by one.

Seriously, the PCs are Elmer Fudd in this situation, and the Kobolds are a very well-armed and hungry Bugs Bunny. Don't be afraid to break out cartoon physics.

Be dethpicable.

[BowStreetRunner]

The DMG on page 88 has rules for Smoke Inhalation under the section on Forest Fires. Page 145 has rules for a Smoke Bomb under Renaissance Explosive Weapons and refers to the Fog Cloud spell. This is consistent with other smoke-related items that also refer back to Fog Cloud. Page 304 also has rules on Smoke Effects, similar to the section on Smoke Inhalation.

Based on the rules found above I think you can surmise that heavy smoke obscures vision, including darkvision, giving concealment (20% miss chance) within 5 feet and total concealment (50% miss chance) beyond that.

A character who breathes heavy smoke must make a FORT save each round (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or spend the round choking and coughing. A character who chokes for 2 consecutive rounds takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.

A moderate wind (11+mph) disperses the smoke in 4 rounds; a strong wind (21+mph) disperses the smoke in 1 round.

But there is nothing that describes it as filling a larger area than the fog cloud spell, which is a 20 ft radius, 20 ft high. Even assuming the players can make a big enough smoke source, since smoke rises it is going to spread through the cavern looking to find a way up and out. I don't think the lower areas would be impacted.

[Menzath]

Based on the information supplied by previous posters I'd say if the PC's get good enough rolls on engineering, and a knowledge roll on kobolds they would figure out that "smoking them out" is a terrible idea.

Flooding them would be better but still may not work since kobolds need a water drainage system in their dens due to ground water, rainfall and the occasional underground river.

It may be better to pour barrels of oil down(like alot) and then light it, hoping that the oil spread enough to possible catch some on fire, backdraft burn them, or cause a temporary lack of oxygen to make them pass out.
It would most likely be best to have someone with a gust of wind/Boreal wind spell aimed into the entrance and throw in bags of flour to prep a dust explosion. A large enough explosion may destabilize part of the cave and cause a collapse.

[BassoonHero]

I don't think the DM can do all of that, especially given that the players have (unsuccessfully) attempted to raid this warren before, and it might be perceived as the DM metagaming to prevent a creative solution.
I'm not sure I understand. Do you disagree that those actions would make sense from the kobolds' in-character perspective? Or are you saying that that solution might not be consistent with other details that have already been established?

[PacMan2247]

The kobold force you've described sounds large enough that the PCs would never have a hope of guarding all of their exits (assuming the PCs were even capable of finding them all). Beyond that, smoke rises; you're not going to smoke out a mine by lighting a fire at ground level. Assuming the PCs could even keep the fire going long enough to fill the entrance level of the mine with smoke, the smoke will billow out of the cave mouth (possibly suppressing the fire, if it forces enough oxygen out) long before it gets pushed down to lower levels. At best, these PCs will be wasting their time; at worst, they'll be providing concealment to kobolds crawling under the smoke to launch a counter-distract (I won't call it a counterattack, because kobolds are cunning enough to have something else up their sleeves besides lining up like cattle at a slaughterhouse. I can't imagine anyone who's ever even lit a candle thinking this plan could work.

[Elkad]

Is the 2nd level under the first? If so, given any source of new air down there (The other escape tunnel. Yeah, the one that was walled up 2 generations ago because some CR:14 monster moved in and only a few of the oldest kobolds even remember it exists), the kobolds will be fine for many days. Possibly indefinitely.

Even if it was all one level, a chimney (natural is fine) would save whatever portion of the warrens isn't between it and the fire. It could be a maze of fractured rock that a mouse would be making Squeezing checks to get through, as long as it has sufficient area to move the smoke.

[Goaty14]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you disagree that those actions would make sense from the kobolds' in-character perspective? Or are you saying that that solution might not be consistent with other details that have already been established?

The latter. The DM hearing the PCs try and have a creative solution (filling the cave with smoke, suffocating the kobolds) to a problem that has proved unsuccessful before (murderhoboing their way in) and then going "oh, the kobolds knew you were going to do this and now have a very specific system to block and shutdown your very specific plan" sounds like a great way to lose players.

On the other hand, their solution might not be overly original, especially if they read up on RPG humor (https://theglen.livejournal.com/16735.html).

50. Not allowed to use thermodynamic science to asphyxiate the orcs' cave instead of exploring it first.

[BassoonHero]

oh, the kobolds knew you were going to do this and now have a very specific system to block and shutdown your very specific plan

Ah, I see. It didn't occur to me that the kobolds would have a specific mechanism for dealing with fires, merely generally-applicable features that a tribe's primary redoubt might likely possess.

For example, kobolds breathe air, just like humans or elves. A large underground colony occupied by many kobolds must have some sort of ventilation. A system of small air shafts would be the simplest solution. (The exterior vents could be easily concealed.) It would be convenient if the kobolds could open and close the shafts to regulate airflow in various conditions. A bonfire at the main entrance would certainly be an exceptional condition, but not one that couldn't be ameliorated by the same measures that the kobolds might rely upon to keep their home comfortable year-round.

It's not reasonable to assume that the kobolds have prepared specific contingencies for every action that the players could take. But it would be equally implausible that the kobolds haven't spent some time planning how they would repel invaders, especially given that this tribe seems to have wider ambitions than their own patch of the underground. Kobolds are every bit as smart as humans, and they're uncommonly skilled miners and trapsmiths. The OP noted that they “have managed to be an ongoing threat to my group by being crafty and setting up traps and ambushes”. But most importantly they are just as real as the player characters. They have agency; they act independently to further their own objectives as best they can, even when they're “offscreen” and even if the DM isn't actively simulating their plans and conversations. They're just as clever and tricky as the players are, they know considerably more about the practical considerations, and they have the home-field advantage and plenty of prep time. While the players are sitting at the game table trying to outwit the kobolds, the kobolds are sitting in their lair trying to outwit the party, and the situation here ought to give the kobolds every advantage.

It's good that the players came up with a more creative plan than “run in and stab things until we win or die”. That should certainly be encouraged. But the kobolds aren't allowed to do the same, then the players' victory will be as hollow as it will be inevitable.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm curious about this puzzle. What -is- the goal here? If this is a well-established colony and the goal is to exterminate it, a handful of murderhobos really doesn't seem like the appropriate response. It's beyond a low-level group unless they're pushing the boundaries of reasonable optimization pretty hard and maybe even then.

A new branch colony, on the other hand, may not yet have built up the defenses and/or logistics inside the cavern to withstand even a short-ish siege. It would also explain the atypical aggression against the surrounding country side.

So I guess what I'm asking is a few things; how established is this colony? how big is it? Is the goal to extermination or just driving them off? Finally, what resources do the players have (classes, levels, gold, nearby NPC support, etc)?

[ComaVision]

Is the 2nd level under the first? If so, given any source of new air down there (The other escape tunnel. Yeah, the one that was walled up 2 generations ago because some CR:14 monster moved in and only a few of the oldest kobolds even remember it exists), the kobolds will be fine for many days. Possibly indefinitely.


Yes, the 2nd level is below the first. They're connected by a roughly 30' vertical shaft.


So I guess what I'm asking is a few things; how established is this colony? how big is it? Is the goal to extermination or just driving them off? Finally, what resources do the players have (classes, levels, gold, nearby NPC support, etc)?

The colony has existed for quite some time. The kobold tribes in the area were fairly benign and had no major conflicts with the nearby tall folk settlement. This changed with this tribe when a vain, violent, and at least a bit delusional kobold became chieftain around 6 months ago (game time). I think the main cave has 30-40 individuals, and they probably have two dozen more elsewhere. The vast majority of the kobolds are straight MM stat block, the chieftain himself is level 3. The tribe has less than 10 warriors (Fighter 2).

It's a sandbox game, so the kobolds aren't directly a goal at all, but they've (meaning the chieftain) been opposed to diplomatic talks. The tribe initially became a problem when they kidnapped a handful of people from farms, a couple of which the group was able to save.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a stable of characters. I have something like 13 players in the game but only up to 6 at any one session. Most of the players also have several characters. Some of the PCs have some influence with NPCs. Notably, one PC is friends with two other tribes of kobolds but hasn't tried to utilize that. The highest level characters are level 4, and some of the higher level classes are: druid, scout, ranger, barbarian, cleric/swordsage/barb, bard, healer, death master. I have not tried to track individual wealth but I'm sure they could pull together something in the ball-park of 5,000 gp together fairly easy if they were so inclined.

To be perfectly honest, it was meant to be a short diversion dungeon-crawl. The kobolds managed to hold the PCs off early on, then the PCs cleared out basically anything not-kobold in the caves, and left the kobolds to their own devices for a couple months. So they keep getting more dug-in, more prepared, and coming up with more plans. Everyone's having fun though, and I'm enjoying seeing what the group comes up with. I just had my doubts about the smoking out working at all and wanted more opinions on it. I continue to appreciate everyone's input.

[Kelb_Panthera]

5k? Scroll of flashflood (sandstorm, sorc/wiz 8 clr 8). I bet that cavern is probably not too far off of 100,000 cubic feet. Too bad about any remaining hostages.

[Elkad]

I'd likely let the idea work.
Players deserve to have hare-brained schemes work a fair amount of the time, or they stop attempting anything imaginative.

I just wouldn't let it work completely.
Say it smokes out (or kills) the upper-level kobolds. Win for them.
Then they have to wait for the smoke to clear (a couple days static), help the smoke clear (wind spells?), or have a way to not breathe themselves.

Lower kobolds had an air passage, enough to create a chimney effect and keep them breathing.

So the players still have to clear those out. And if they haven't explored the whole upper level before they made the fire, you can add a couple small encounters in corners somewhere (with non-breathers), even if you have to change your map and add the corners.

Unknown to anyone, that air passage leads to a cave on the other side of the mountain. A monster lives there. It can't fit into the tiny cracks in the back of it's cave and never thought about them.
But the fire made a wind pulling air into those cracks, so now his cave is drafty. And when he goes out to hunt, the whole valley is smoky and obscures his view.
So while the party is cleaning out the lower level, he comes looking for the reason.
He'll find them on the way back to town with all their loot or something.

Just make the total setup either easier than if they had fought their way through, or give them more treasure. Either way, they get something for their effort.

[BowStreetRunner]

5k? Scroll of flashflood (sandstorm, sorc/wiz 8 clr 8). I bet that cavern is probably not too far off of 100,000 cubic feet. Too bad about any remaining hostages.

100,000 cubic feet (http://www.bluebulbprojects.com/MeasureOfThings/results.php?amt=100000&comp=volume&unit=cf&searchTerm=100%2C000+cubic+feet) would certainly be a decent sized cavern.

[Kelb_Panthera]

100,000 cubic feet (http://www.bluebulbprojects.com/MeasureOfThings/results.php?amt=100000&comp=volume&unit=cf&searchTerm=100%2C000+cubic+feet) would certainly be a decent sized cavern.

In game terms, it's one-hundred 10ft cubes on the grid. Since water flows downhill, I rather suspect it'll at least drown the lower level near-completely and might knock out some supports and destabilize the upper level if it doesn't flood it at least partially.

It's a -really- devastating spell effect in circumstances like this.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera
I bet that cavern is probably not too far off of 100,000 cubic feet.

Where did that figure come from? The OP indicated that the caves extend for miles, so I’d expect the cavern complex to be substantially larger.

[ComaVision]

Where did that figure come from? The OP indicated that the caves extend for miles, so I’d expect the cavern complex to be substantially larger.

To clarify, they have a hidden tunnel that comes out a couple miles from the main caves. Without counting the actual squares, I agree that it would likely flood the entire lower level.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Where did that figure come from? The OP indicated that the caves extend for miles, so I’d expect the cavern complex to be substantially larger.

Given the OP has since clarified, this is just a tangent now but I don't see where he said that in the first place.

???

[edathompson2]

Here's a crazy idea.

How about making sure the idea works? I know insane right. Just for once, reward the players for thinking outside the box. When they win, congratulate them on a brilliant plan. Take a moment and allow them to soak it in.

Just try it. See how your players respond. I guarantee they'll be talking about it for months.

[Jack_Simth]

Bluntly, I don't know how to deal with this. I'm not aware of any in game rules that cover that, and don't have a great understanding of how quick/effective it would be. Does the playground have any advice, or examples of how it could be run?
It's buried in the suffocation rules.

Smoke Effects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#smokeEffects) (note that that's for "heavy smoke" and it's unclear how you get there...) and Suffocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#suffocation) (you want 'slow suffocation' for this)

Do you have the dungeon map? Assuming they find all entrances, and all vents, and seal them up, and start fires, then you need to:
1) Figure out how many 10-foot cubes are in the dungeon.
2) Multiple that by 6 hours.
3) Figure out how many medium creature equivalents are in the dungeon (fires count as one each, a small creature counts as half a creature).
4) Divide the result from 2 by the result from 3.
5) That's how many hours they have until they all start taking 1d6 nonlethal every 15 minutes.

Figure they'll notice fairly quickly. That gives you an idea of how much time the critters have to come up with a solution (such as "open a new entrance elsewhere," "form a strike force to clear the existing openings," or whatever).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera
Given the OP has since clarified, this is just a tangent now but I don't see where he said that in the first place.

Post #3, second paragraph.