A World-Changing Wish

[BenoftheVale]

Hello,

I am currently in a campaign set in Innistrad. My character is an extremely pro-human wizard. At level 17, I will have access to the Wish spell and intend to make the extremely dangerous plane of Innistrad significantly less so for humankind. To this end, I have constructed the following options:

1. I wish that all above-animal-intelligence non-humans and demi-humans would lose all ability to interact with reality, never being able to return in any form.

2. I wish that humans could not be effected in any way, directly of indirectly, by any non-human or demi-human with above-animal intelligence.

How would you word these wishes and which do you think would work best?

My DM is fine with Wishes being extreme, but will twist them if possible. Thanks in advance!

[Lord8Ball]

Option 1: Welcome to earth
I wish all the beings I identify as human beings are shunted off into a reality in which the entities I perceive to be demihumans do not exist "optional" ( and these demihumans or extraplanar entities cannot interact this new reality).
Option 2: Bible rip off
I wish for a great flood to cleanse the world of all beings except for humans and creatures necessary for the human's survival.
Option 3: Beelzebub's curse
I wish a great uncurable plague that only effects demihumans will emerge in every living entity in the world making it impossible for the affected to reproduce as well as die a slow and painful death.
Option 4: Prophesy
When the dragons get slain by humans,
A new golden age for Innistrad comes,
for the glory of the light,
they will try to banish the night,
they will create a second sun,
That will wither the ground.

Note: binding the future to prophecies with the wish spell just excites me to no end.

[Laserlight]

One of the players in our campaign took some cards from the Deck of Many Things, with the plan that if he got the card that gave wishes, he'd wish for all non-elves to contract a plague and become sterile. I pointed out that there are NPCs in the world who can cast Wish, and pretty much any Good, many Neutral and some Evil casters or higher beings would cast their Wish to counteract our PC's wish.

As is is...your wish #1 would depend on how you define "above animal intelligence" (humans have been described as "the rational animal") and "non-humans" (elementals, deities?)

Your #2 is going to be hard to implement. A halfling digs a burrow and puts a wall around it. Does a human have the ability to walk through the wall and stand on air above the hole?

[Iados]

1. I wish that all above-animal-intelligence non-humans and demi-humans would lose all ability to interact with reality, never being able to return in any form.

2. I wish that humans could not be effected in any way, directly of indirectly, by any non-human or demi-human with above-animal intelligence.

How would you word these wishes and which do you think would work best?

My DM is fine with Wishes being extreme, but will twist them if possible. Thanks in advance!

I'd use the same approach for both #1 and #2. Upon casting Wish, your character sees celestial light piercing the dark storm clouds above him. A demihuman rapture occurs, as Elves, Dwarves, etc. are divinely liberated from the dark world of Innistrad, and are transported upwards, until their bodies and their souls no longer occupy the plane. Some of the remaining humans, bewildered that their race was the only sentient species deemed unworthy of salvation, begin to go mad. They turn on each other -- flagellating themselves and killing those closest to them -- in the false hope that they may purge themselves of their humanity, and in doing so, find redemption. Civilization crumbles, and the few humans that don't go mad see enough horrors that they quickly wish they had.

The real twist? The Wish never worked. Instead, the Dark Powers of Ravenloft heard the wizard's attempt at xenophobic genocide, and decided to "reward" him by drawing him into a domain of endless conflict. Your character is thus forever trapped in the Demiplane of Dread, as the lord of a domain reserved for human supremacists that the Dark Powers wish to play with.

[Elysiume]

Wish has as a specific example that Wishing for the death of a power enemy could simply propel you forward in time until they've died of natural causes. I can't see any possible game where Wishes of this magnitude don't fall into the "spell might simply fail" category. These are Wishes on the level of evaporating every body of water and crashing a moon into the planet: something that single-handedly ends not just a campaign, but the state of an entire world.

Frankly, having either Wish even affect a single character is already pushing it. The first one is sort of like Imprisonment (a 9th level spell), but with no saving throw, and repeated millions of times. The second one is such a powerful abjuration effect that even a single instance would be stronger than a 9th level spell, and, again, repeated millions of times. It's like an Antilife Shell + Antimagic Field + Freedom of Movement + Invulnerability + Sanctuary that just covers non-humans and demi-humans...and that only covers the direct. Once you get into disallowing indirect influence, it's just off the charts, magic-wise.

If I was pressed to give a result other than "the spell fizzles" or "the spell fizzles and you lose all spellcasting abilities" (like Mordenkainen's Disjunction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm)), then it depends on exactly how your DM would twist them. If they're willing to leave them at world-ending power levels and simply twist them to be not to your liking, that's easy. Twisting them so that they end up at a less world-ending power level while still retaining some semblance of the original Wish is harder.



1. I wish that all above-animal-intelligence non-humans and demi-humans would lose all ability to interact with reality, never being able to return in any form.

In this case, I'd say your character is immediately hit with a permanent Microcosm (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/microcosm) (regardless of your hit dice). In your personal reality, there are no non-humans or demi-humans. Unlike a normal Microcosm, yours cannot be ended by either a Wish or a Miracle--you specified them never being able to return. The only way to keep them out of your new reality is to keep you in your new reality.



2. I wish that humans could not be effected in any way, directly of indirectly, by any non-human or demi-human with above-animal intelligence.As I said above, that's unimaginable, power-wise, and anything that meets the spirit of the goal (no human can be affected by a non-human or demi-human) would likely be of equally unimaginable power level:

Your #1 wish happens to the humans. They're all immediately Imprisoned, locked away in escapable prisons for all of eternity, safe from non-humans and demi-humans.
All humans are slain, their remains vanish, and their souls are irrevocably destroyed. There's nothing left for the non-humans or demi-humans to affect.
All non-humans and demi-humans are made human, retaining their power as magical and extraordinary effects. Their hatred of humankind is exacerbated. Humans are now protected from the non-existent classes of non-humans and demi-humans.
All humans have their very being slightly rewoven. A tiny thread of non-human heritage is introduced, making all living humans ever so slightly non-human, leaving no humans left that could possibly be affected.
I'd probably choose the last one.

[Unoriginal]

If your character did manage to pull that off somehow, they'd become the BBEG and all humans who had non-human loved ones will want to flay you.

Also, pissing off all the gods in the process.

[MrStabby]

Non humans can't interact with reality if there is no reality.

Either reality ends or it becomes "unreal", a mix of illusion, dreams, madness, distorted time and chaos.

[Unoriginal]

Either reality ends or it becomes "unreal", a mix of illusion, dreams, madness, distorted time and chaos.

Or for a Beholder: Tuesday.

[Lombra]

As long as you're in character, these are good. The DM can always make it more "interesting", no wish is backlash-proof.

[Asmotherion]

If you've reached level 17, and think this won't backfire on you, then your DM probably hasn't set the right tone in his Campain to make you "feel" it.

Overall, this might just start a very interesting hookpoint in it's own right. So, just go for it, see what happens. It's not like you could loose money or health on trying something on a simulation of reality, merelly risk your Avatar in a simulated world.

If you haven't guessed, I'll have to say "Depends on the DM" and generic stuff like that. If you're really so curious, test it out. The whole experiance of how effective your Wish was would loose meaning if you got feedback from a bunsh of DMs on a Forum, wouldn't it. You are asking for a World Altering Spell, so whatever happens is supposed to be unpredictable.

If you really want a possible plot-twist:

Define Intelligence; Also Define Reality. This terms are subjective as to what they mean.

I would personally effectivelly Lock Humanity in a World with Beasts with Int scores from 4 and below, and, the rest of the races would be Banished in an other Plane "Locked Away", until someone would be able to Break this Lock, and potentially reverse the effect.

Just a Honnorary mention, but the Tarrasque has an Int of 3.

[GreyBlack]

Hello,

I am currently in a campaign set in Innistrad. My character is an extremely pro-human wizard. At level 17, I will have access to the Wish spell and intend to make the extremely dangerous plane of Innistrad significantly less so for humankind. To this end, I have constructed the following options:

1. I wish that all above-animal-intelligence non-humans and demi-humans would lose all ability to interact with reality, never being able to return in any form.

2. I wish that humans could not be effected in any way, directly of indirectly, by any non-human or demi-human with above-animal intelligence.

How would you word these wishes and which do you think would work best?

My DM is fine with Wishes being extreme, but will twist them if possible. Thanks in advance!

The instant the first wish is cast, all of reality explodes. That's how I would rule it.

So I realize that we're bringing real world logic in, but the essential effect of making all non-humans and demi-humans becoming unable to interact with reality, to me, indicates that they're going to be converted into dark matter. In doing so, they become unable to interact with your definition of "reality" (i.e. regular matter). Before your second casting is finished, this creates millions of points of dark matter, which begins ripping holes into reality itself. You did just create millions of points which can potentially annihilate parts of reality by just existing. This results in massive amounts of atomic annihilation. In my admittedly cursory reading on the subject, this annihilation results in the immediate conversion of these destroyed particles results in what is commonly called nuclear fission.

You cast the second wish. Well, thankfully the demihumans aren't actually interacting with the physical world anymore. It's just literally a mass explosion happening as a result of that 6 second casting.

As the prime material plane is annihilated and people begin showing up to judgement, people begin finding out about the weirdest thing that just happened to them. All of the demi humans are the only ones left on this godforsaken rock, drifting through space unable to interact with what we call reality until they happen upon a potential planet made of dark matter.

Congratulations. Your wish just killed all humans and saved all non-humans.

[JackPhoenix]

Considering Sorin Markov was oldwalker, and the best he could do when he tried to achieve similar goal was creating Avacyn and Helvault... I guess you'll get another archangel, but more genocidal this time.

Another problem with those wishes in Innistrad is that pretty much anything... vampires, werewolves, geists, zombies of all kind, even demons... were originally humans. Ironically, you would rid the plane of humanity's helpers, angels. Maybe dragons and some demons. And good luck telling Eldrazi how they can or can't interact with reality.

[StorytellerHero]

1. I wish that all above-animal-intelligence non-humans and demi-humans would lose all ability to interact with reality, never being able to return in any form.

2. I wish that humans could not be effected in any way, directly of indirectly, by any non-human or demi-human with above-animal intelligence.

How would you word these wishes and which do you think would work best?

My DM is fine with Wishes being extreme, but will twist them if possible. Thanks in advance!


The broader and farther reaching a Wish, the more likely that magic will become unstable around the interaction that the Wish is making with reality.

1. You are trapped in an illusion in which the Wish has been granted, but all non-humans and demo-humans inside the illusion have gone murderously insane. You must fight for survival in order to leave the illusion without being killed by it.

2. The languages of the world have been edited, changing the meaning of the words "human" and "demihuman", or removing those terms altogether in every form.

3. All non-humans and demi-humans that touch you must now make a Wisdom saving throw or be teleported to another plane, earning you a bad reputation among the families of victims that were banished by your magic.

4. Roll ten times on the chaos magic sorcerer's Wild Surge table...

[Lombra]

I see a lot of very antagonistic responses. Wish isn't supposed to work against the player. The wish should be granted, the backlash tied to its consecuences, not dismissed with a lame "lol no". World peace is a good wish, a noble one, very much campaign-related it woud be a shame to waste such an opportunity to create a glorious new narrative arc.

[Unoriginal]

I see a lot of very antagonistic responses. Wish isn't supposed to work against the player. The wish should be granted, the backlash tied to its consecuences, not dismissed with a lame "lol no". World peace is a good wish, a noble one, very much campaign-related it woud be a shame to waste such an opportunity to create a glorious new narrative arc.

What are you talking about, Lombra?

OP doesn't want world peace. The Wish is to remove permanently all non-human sapient beings from reality so that humans can have total supremacy.

It's neither a good wish nor a noble one.

[GreyBlack]

I see a lot of very antagonistic responses. Wish isn't supposed to work against the player. The wish should be granted, the backlash tied to its consecuences, not dismissed with a lame "lol no". World peace is a good wish, a noble one, very much campaign-related it woud be a shame to waste such an opportunity to create a glorious new narrative arc.

It is world peace in the broadest, most philosophically utilitarian sense of the concept. If we simply kill everyone who is making us unhappy, then everyone will be happy.

[Unoriginal]

It is world peace in the broadest, most philosophically utilitarian sense of the concept. If we simply kill everyone who is making us unhappy, then everyone will be happy.

Not even in this sense.

Remove all non-humans, humans will just keep fighting each other like they always have.

[Nadan]

If all humans are annihilated, any non-human or demi-human can't effect human anymore.

[KorvinStarmast]

Or for a Beholder: Tuesday. Grinned, I did.

Remove all non-humans, humans will just keep fighting each other like they always have. Sounds like a fun game: I hear Chainmail let you play out some of those battles of humans fighting each other on and off. (As does Age of Empires, etc)

You can run an entire D&D campaign with only humans as sentient races. Eventually, because of planes, interplanar travel, and evil human wizards summoning things from there to here, something wicked this way will come and it's game on once again.

[GreyBlack]

Not even in this sense.

Remove all non-humans, humans will just keep fighting each other like they always have.

My thinking was utilitarianism as prescribed by John Stewart Mill; maximize the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people. This philosophy may or may not have justified a great number of atrocities IRL, but I won't go into those.

[Ganymede]

"I wish to restart the campaign in a new game world with fresh PCs."

[JackPhoenix]

There are no demihumans in Innistrad, ignoring the two planewalkers (without whom Innistrad would've been lost to Emrakul in Eldritch Moon).

Zombies (both skaabs and ghouls) are formerly human, they don't have intelligence beyond animals (and the definition of animal intelligence itself is iffy... Giant Apes have Int 6, Tressym Int 10, and both are beasts), and the problem with them are the necromancers who create them and turn them into armies. The wish wouldn't help with those.

Then there are werewolves. They are humans afflicted by curse. The wish won't work there.

Vampires are also humans transformed into bloodsuckers. It's not clear if they even count as undead in the D&D sense. It's unclear if the wish would work.

Geists are also former humans. They are sapient, but some of them are helpful to humanity. If the wish would work, it would be a mixed blessing. You'll lose Saint Traft and the Drogskol together with more malevolent spirits.

At least some demons were originally humans. They are sapient, and the wish should work on them. Skirsdag would try to undo the wish and bring them back, though. Same with devils.

Then there are various random monsters like hypnotoad Gitrog. They are dangerous, but they don't seem to be sapient. Wish won't work on them.

Now, the biggest issue lies with angels. They are not human in origin, and depending on where you campaign lies in relation to Shadows over Innistrad, they are completely benevolent towards humanity. Your wish would remove the only thing that allows humanity to survive against other threads. Even worse, Avacyn's blessings and lot of magic humans use against the same monsters would stop working. Good job breaking it, "hero".

And if you deal with Emrakul, all bets are off. Her spawn were formerly humans (and other creatures), and Eldrazi don't care about the rules of reality, so she would likely laugh(?) at your attemps to tell her what she can or can't do.

Even if the wish would work (which is doubtful, if pre-Restoration Sorin or Avacyn couldn't do something like that, why should some random wizard?), the effect may be much smaller than you think, and it could actually make things worse for humanity.

[strangebloke]

ARe you the only person to ever attain this level of power?

Because, IIRC, the whole point of Innistrad is that no one can fix it. No archangels, no planeswalkers. It's just an awful mess.

[Malifice]

Hello,

I am currently in a campaign set in Innistrad. My character is an extremely pro-human wizard. At level 17, I will have access to the Wish spell and intend to make the extremely dangerous plane of Innistrad significantly less so for humankind. To this end, I have constructed the following options:

1. I wish that all above-animal-intelligence non-humans and demi-humans would lose all ability to interact with reality, never being able to return in any form.

2. I wish that humans could not be effected in any way, directly of indirectly, by any non-human or demi-human with above-animal intelligence.

How would you word these wishes and which do you think would work best?

My DM is fine with Wishes being extreme, but will twist them if possible. Thanks in advance!

Let me take a guess... your PC is good aligned?

[strangebloke]

Let me take a guess... your PC is good aligned?

Hahaha this is one time I'm absolutely going to agree with you. 'Tho most of the non/former humans are kind of undead-ish, so it's less evil than you might think.

[Willie the Duck]

I see a lot of very antagonistic responses. Wish isn't supposed to work against the player. The wish should be granted, the backlash tied to its consecuences, not dismissed with a lame "lol no". World peace is a good wish, a noble one, very much campaign-related it woud be a shame to waste such an opportunity to create a glorious new narrative arc.

Honestly, since when? I wouldn't even call it lame. Usually, I would call it lame (actually I wouldn't, since calling something lames says more about the person saying it) that someone would want a wish to be able to do this. But the OP did say that the DM is on board, so really I just think that the player should be prepared for the madness to begin.

Honestly, Wish in general (at least the part of it that is open ended) seems to be old baggage that the game just-can't-jettison but also can't decide what to do with. I solidly think the designers knew about the Wish+Simulacrum trick before printing and left it in just so at least the wish-abuse would be well established and obvious and everyone being on the same page.

But that means that statements that start with 'Wish is(n't) supposed to..' pretty much fail right there. There is no consensus on what Wish is supposed to do or what ought to be countered.


1. I wish that all above-animal-intelligence non-humans and demi-humans would lose all ability to interact with reality, never being able to return in any form.

Given that food and air are part of reality, this seems like a broad-spectrum genocide. Was that the intent?


2. I wish that humans could not be effected in any way, directly of indirectly, by any non-human or demi-human with above-animal intelligence.

Best case scenario, you have a apartheid world where humans and sentient non-humans have to eat in different restaurants or the like, since they can't eat the food prepared by each other, etc. Worst case scenario, the newspaper-equivalents will be filled of obituaries of people who died because they tried to cross bridges only to step on the plank installed by an orc, or the like.


How would you word these wishes and which do you think would work best?

Best at what? What is you (not your character)'s intent. If your goal is to portray a misguided good-intentioned character who accidentally causes great evil in the service of good, these would work. Pretty sure that was the plot of a pretty good X-files back in the day. If you actually want your character to do something they were attempting to do, I would go back to these with a fine-toothed comb.

My DM is fine with Wishes being extreme, but will twist them if possible. Thanks in advance! [/QUOTE]

[BenoftheVale]

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and criticisms.

To answer a few questions:

-The character's alignment is LN.

-He views the angels as less humanity's saviors and more tyrants.

-His primary targets are the angels and demons, including those who once were humans, but he doesn't consider them humans anymore.

-He believes that without the influence of angels and demons, humanity will be more 'good' for the world.

-I absolutely consider him misguided and expect severe problems with the implementation of the Wish, but the character has a higher Int score than me, so I figured it would make sense to get some more opinions on the matter since he would think of more of the potential problems than I probably would.

-Being highly intelligent, he assumes that the now far-more-intelligent-than-anything-else human race will easily be able to deal with other problems.

Thanks again, everyone!