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View Full Version : Cranium Rat Swarms and Innate Spellcasting



ATHATH
2018-04-10, 01:22 AM
I took a closer look at these guys recently.

If I checked my sources correctly (and if my sources are correct/accurate in the first place), Cranium Rat Swarms and Deep Rothes are the only two creatures in the game that can naturally cast spells and have the Beast type. Deep Rothes just get Dancing Lights at-will (and spell component-less), but Cranium Rat Swarms get quite a few spells, namely Dominate Monster and Confusion 1/day each and Command, Comprehend Languages, and Detect Thoughts (all) at-will (and with no spell components needed!).

Unfortunately, Polymorphing or Wild Shaping into Cranium Rat Swarms in order to get the ability to cast neat spells doesn't seem to work, as both of those abilities forbid you from casting spells while they're active.

My question to the playground, then, is this: Can you do other things with these spells? Can you use them to fuel Divine Smites, for example? Can you break them down into Sorcery Points? Can you store them in... something that stores spells (I can't name anything specific that stores spells off of the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure that there is something that does that)? Can something that steals spells (again, can't name anything off of the top of my head) steal your Cranium Rate Swarm spells?

Arkhios
2018-04-10, 02:02 AM
Note (to anyone who might wrongly assume that I think myself as a rules authority, which I most certainly do not), these are just how I would rule:

Can you use them to fuel Divine Smites, for example?
No, because they don't use spell slots. They are written in such a way that they can be cast 1/day each. They are not written as though the beast would be using a spell slot to cast them. Some NPC's have spell slots listed next to their selection of spells. But not Cranium Rat swarm.

Can you break them down into Sorcery Points?
Technically, I would say, no. Because they are still cast without using spell slots. Then again, I could see someone else rule it so that you could. Ask your DM, I'd say, but don't expect them to allow it.

Can you store them in... something that stores spells?
I guess you could, in theory. But I would rule that only once per day, even if you later used wild shape to assume the same form another time per day.

Can something that steals spells steal your Cranium Rate Swarm spells?
I think so, yes. As long as the Cranium Rat swarm is "intact" they know these spells, and have similar capability to cast them as any PC would.

Unoriginal
2018-04-10, 02:04 AM
Pretty sure you can't, same way you can't use you racial spell as a Tiefling to get more Smites/Sorcery points/etc.

Danielqueue1
2018-04-11, 02:53 AM
Anything that calls for a spell slot would not apply. Smites, conversion to sorcery points etc. are all dependent on the level of spell slot used. because these abilities do not use spell slots, you cannot use them to fuel other abilities.

stealing or storing the spells however should be fine.

Joe the Rat
2018-04-11, 01:17 PM
I'm curious how you are managing to use swarms as a valid form for wild/poly.

the_brazenburn
2018-04-11, 05:27 PM
If they can be stolen, here's what you do.

Wizard polymorphs himself into a Cranium Rat swarm. Rogue steals as many spells as possible. Wizard turns back into a human(oid), then copies the new spells.

Boom. You have access to lots of new spells with one day's work.