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View Full Version : A Heretofore Unknown, Ridiculously Good Feat



Fax Celestis
2007-09-01, 03:16 PM
Let me bring Customize Domain (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Customize_Domain,all) to the table.

Particularly the part with the Magic domain, where it says, "Any kind of spell, but you must select a spell one level lower than normal."

Ridiculously. Ridiculously. Good.

Couple with Domain Spontaneity (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Domain_Spontaneity,all) for extra doom.

Citizen Joe
2007-09-01, 03:23 PM
Umm.. I don't get it.

Even with magic domain you can only swap out for spells you know... and in that case it would cast as though it were a level higher. I don't think you're reading it right.

Starsinger
2007-09-01, 03:23 PM
That's awfully nice... Especially for a spontaneous cleric.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-01, 03:29 PM
Umm.. I don't get it.

Even with magic domain you can only swap out for spells you know... and in that case it would cast as though it were a level higher. I don't think you're reading it right.

Four words: One. Level. Wizard. Dip. You have access to the entire wizard spell list, and as such you can replace any of your domain spells with wizard spells.

In fact, a representation:

Wizard 5/Cleric 5/Mystic Theurge 10. Take the Magic domain and any other domain you please (let's say Travel for this argument).

Your feats: Alternative Source Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Alternative_Source_Spell,all) lets you use any of your arcane slots as divine, and divine slots as arcane. You basically can prepare any spell you know however you like.

Now, take Customize Domain (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Customize_Domain,all). You can replace any spell off the Magic domain list with any Sor/Wiz spell you like, or can replace those on Travel for those that are related to movement or speed (such as Celerity).

Next, Domain Spontaneity (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Domain_Spontaneity,all). You can expend a turn undead to convert any spell you have prepared into a domain spell. Due to Alternative Source Spell, you can treat your arcane spells as divine slots, meaning you can even spontaneously convert them.

Fawsto
2007-09-01, 03:36 PM
The Cleric now has access to some of the msot devastating offensive spells.

Fireball and Desintegrate FTW!

Jasdoif
2007-09-01, 03:39 PM
The Cleric now has access to some of the msot devastating offensive spells.

Fireball and Desintegrate FTW!I was thinking more like celerity, but yeah.

Starsinger
2007-09-01, 03:43 PM
Four words: One. Level. Wizard. Dip.

Oh I must have misread that.. I took it to mean any spell list you as a player had access to. Yes, this way makes more sense, but is less fantastic.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-01, 03:45 PM
Other fun things you can do with Alternative Source Spell: mix Shadowcaster mysteries and divine spell slots.

ZeroNumerous
2007-09-01, 03:50 PM
Fax. One level Archivist dip. One level dip gives you access to all Sorc/Wiz spells, Paladin spells, Ranger spells, Spirit Shaman spells, Assassin spells, and you could probably argue Wu Jen in there too.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-01, 03:56 PM
Fax. One level Archivist dip. One level dip gives you access to all Sorc/Wiz spells, Paladin spells, Ranger spells, Spirit Shaman spells, Assassin spells, and you could probably argue Wu Jen in there too.

Archivist doesn't give you Sor/Wiz, but it'll give you any divine (Paladin, Ranger, Spirit Shaman, Shugenja). One in Wizard will give you most others.

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-09-01, 03:56 PM
So now Batman just got upped to 3/4s BAB, d8 hit die, his utility belt is has enough extra-dimensional space to hold books containing every spell that ever was... in binary, he can turn and access domains, AND now has the option to simply wade in that beat the hell out of things when bored of one shotting encounters. :smallconfused:

Ceres
2007-09-01, 03:57 PM
Muahahaha! Pure evil!

Question: Could you use DMM on these spells? That would be insane!

Fax Celestis
2007-09-01, 03:59 PM
So now Batman just got upped to 3/4s BAB, d8 hit die, his utility belt is has enough extra-dimensional space to hold books containing every spell that ever was... in binary, he can turn and access domains, AND now has the option to simply wade in that beat the hell out of things when bored of one shotting encounters. :smallconfused:

Like I said: "Ridiculously Good."


Muahahaha! Pure evil!

Question: Could you use DMM on these spells? That would be insane!

...why not? They're spells you cast as divine spells.

Hannes
2007-09-01, 04:00 PM
This is why any splatbooks with anything that tweaks divine magic should be BANNED AND BURNED ON SIGHT! I mean... Spend turn attempts for metamagic? Think about a campaign having a cleric and no undead. THE HORROR, THE HORROOOOR!

Ceres
2007-09-01, 04:02 PM
...why not? They're spells you cast as divine spells.

I hearby encourage everyone to find new, stronger DMMs with the use of this expanded arsenal :smallsmile:

Citizen Joe
2007-09-01, 04:04 PM
Even then its not all that great. You get a fixed number of domain slots and you're just replacing the domain spell in each slot (ONCE). Each of those has to be one level lower... thus level 1 domain slot is actually a level 0 spell. The level 9 domain slot would be an 8th level spell.

I suppose it is interesting and kinda good, but ridiculously good?

Fax Celestis
2007-09-01, 04:05 PM
Even then its not all that great. You get a fixed number of domain slots and you're just replacing the domain spell in each slot (ONCE). Each of those has to be one level lower... thus level 1 domain slot is actually a level 0 spell. The level 9 domain slot would be an 8th level spell.

I suppose it is interesting and kinda good, but ridiculously good?

Did you miss Domain Spontaneity? That feat makes it so I can convert any spell I have prepared into a domain spell, at the slight cost of expending a turn attempt. That's what really makes it ridiculously good.

Also note that the "one level lower" only applies to the Magic domain. Other, more restricted domains (like Travel, which gets access to celerity and temporal stasis, among other things) do not have that requirement.

Draz74
2007-09-01, 04:08 PM
Now, take Customize Domain (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Customize_Domain,all). You can replace any spell off the Magic domain list with any Sor/Wiz spell you like, or can replace those on Travel for those that are related to movement or speed (such as Celerity).

If your DM reads the feat very strictly (and I don't blame him), Celerity probably doesn't qualify.

Luck looks to be a more amazing domain for this than Travel. Any spell that adds a bonus on a d20 roll? That's a lot of spells to choose from.

Gralamin
2007-09-01, 04:11 PM
If your DM reads the feat very strictly (and I don't blame him), Celerity probably doesn't qualify.

Luck looks to be a more amazing domain for this than Travel. Any spell that adds a bonus on a d20 roll? That's a lot of spells to choose from.

I Would say Timestop would count under travel, and I would just grab Celerity with the magic domain.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-01, 04:18 PM
OMG AN IDEA. Does this work?

Couple Battle Blessing from CCham with Alternative Spell Source. Be a Sorceror/Paladin. Prepare arcane spells in your paladin slots, then cast them as swift actions for free because they're technically paladin spells at that point.

Macrovore
2007-09-01, 04:24 PM
I don't think so, fax. It says that you can prepare the spells as "divine spells," not "paladin spells." Subtle distinction, but even though paladin spells are technically divine, IIRC, the Battle Blessing feat pnly works for paladin spells.

'sides, pally casting sucks. That's why, since you would already have CCha to be thinking about using that feat, you would instead take the bonus feats.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-09-01, 05:05 PM
I don't think so, fax. It says that you can prepare the spells as "divine spells," not "paladin spells." Subtle distinction, but even though paladin spells are technically divine, IIRC, the Battle Blessing feat pnly works for paladin spells.
Exactly. It lets a sorcerer/paladin cast, say, fireball from his or her 3rd level sorcerer spell slot as a divine spell or cure light wounds from his or her 1st level paladin slot as an arcane spell. The spell doesn't actually change class lists.

Alternative Spell Source does very little worthwhile on its own. It requires additional access to feats or class abilities that specifically target arcane or divine spells. The only time the arcane/divine distinction really raises its head in core is where scrolls are concerned. The only other thing I can think of that you can use the feat for without additional investment is ignore an enemy Ur-Priest's Divine Spell Resistance (which absolutely sucks for the ur-priest's level anyways).

Ikkitosen
2007-09-02, 03:52 AM
Just a random thought, but if you can prepare your arcane spells as divine are they still subject to ASF?

Zincorium
2007-09-02, 04:06 AM
Just a random thought, but if you can prepare your arcane spells as divine are they still subject to ASF?

It isn't really a matter of preparation, it's one of casting. Casting any sort of spell as divine removes the possibility of ASF, since that's specifically tied to arcane casting.

Behold_the_Void
2007-09-02, 04:18 AM
That's really dangerous. Clerics still don't get Timestop though, which is one of the major components in the Celerity I win combo.

excrtd
2007-09-02, 04:35 AM
Well they can. Since they could take the time domain that gives time stop and some other nice stuff such as foresight.

RiOrius
2007-09-02, 06:26 AM
So now Batman just got upped to 3/4s BAB, d8 hit die, his utility belt is has enough extra-dimensional space to hold books containing every spell that ever was... in binary, he can turn and access domains, AND now has the option to simply wade in that beat the hell out of things when bored of one shotting encounters. :smallconfused:

Not quite--Batman's main strength is his versatility. With this feat, you get to replace each standard domain spell with any single spell that fits the requirement (and the spell you choose can't be changed). Thus, the cleric only gets one Wizard spell of each level--more versatile than a standard cleric, of course, but not nearly as versatile as Batman.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-09-02, 08:39 AM
Just a random thought, but if you can prepare your arcane spells as divine are they still subject to ASF?
D'oh, I forgot about that. Okay, so two things. And the armor thing is a lot nicer than the scroll thing.

Okay, it seems to me that there are generally more benefits to casting a spell as a divine spell. Don't have to worry about ASF, a greater number of feats that affect them, and so on. Seems pretty juicy for a primarily arcane caster.

martyboy74
2007-11-17, 08:42 PM
That's really dangerous. Clerics still don't get Timestop though, which is one of the major components in the Celerity I win combo.

You don't even need Domain Customization for that. Take a look at the trickery domain.

brian c
2007-11-17, 08:51 PM
You don't even need Domain Customization for that. Take a look at the trickery domain.

Did you use Customize Domain to add "Raise Dead Thread" to your spell list? :P

But since we're here, and since it's a cool trick I didn't see when it was first brought up:


Archivist doesn't give you Sor/Wiz, but it'll give you any divine (Paladin, Ranger, Spirit Shaman, Shugenja). One in Wizard will give you most others.

So... besides Divine Metamagic, couldn't you have all spells just by taking Wizard/Archivist/Mystic Theurge and then using this trick?

Hyozo
2007-11-17, 09:10 PM
Yes, a Wizard/Archivist/Thurgue Would have access to every spell, but not through this trick. Archivists don't get domains.

brian c
2007-11-17, 09:13 PM
Yes, a Wizard/Archivist/Thurgue Would have access to every spell, but not through this trick. Archivists don't get domains.

Arcane Disciple, Magic.

I_Got_This_Name
2007-11-17, 09:25 PM
Yes, a Wizard/Archivist/Thurgue Would have access to every spell, but not through this trick. Archivists don't get domains.

Wizards don't quite get all arcane spells, just most of them. The Wu Jen list has a few that wizards don't get.

F.L.
2007-11-18, 06:59 AM
Well, looks like you can sit around with permanent Divine Favor, Righteous Might, and Tenser's Transformation and Iron Body all day if you'd like. Not that you'd necessarily like to.

Oh, and Giant Size from the Wu Jen list too if you'd like.

Darkxarth
2007-11-18, 11:14 AM
Wizards don't quite get all arcane spells, just most of them. The Wu Jen list has a few that wizards don't get.

The Bard also has some Arcane spells that aren't on the Wizard/Sorcerer list.

tsuyoshikentsu
2007-11-18, 12:05 PM
The Bard also has some Arcane spells that aren't on the Wizard/Sorcerer list.

Yeah, but Archivist gets those through Divine Bard.

Chronos
2007-11-18, 02:34 PM
Well, looks like you can sit around with permanent Divine Favor, Righteous Might, and Tenser's Transformation and Iron Body all day if you'd like. Not that you'd necessarily like to.It's a bit tricky to combine Tenser's Transformation and Iron Body... Tenser's Transformation removes spellcasting ability, so you can't cast it first, and Iron Body renders you incapable of drinking, which interferes with the potion you need to drink for Tenser's. You can still pull it off if you have some way of using the material component in advance (such as scribing a scroll of Transformation), but it's not quite as straightforward.

Of course, one must ask why you're bothering to cast Tenser's Transformation when you can cast the superior (and mostly non-stacking) Divine Power instead.

While we're at it on the Archivist, he doesn't need to take Customize Domain himself in order to benefit from it. He just needs to know someone else who has taken it. Or maybe several someones, all of whom have made different choices for their domain spells.

F.L.
2007-11-18, 05:18 PM
Of course, one must ask why you're bothering to cast Tenser's Transformation when you can cast the superior (and mostly non-stacking) Divine Power instead.



Doesn't stack. Blast, was hoping to see a 1.25 or 1.5 BAB progression...

Fishy
2007-11-18, 08:56 PM
So, if we want to make it even more complicated... One level of Bard or Divine Bard and the Able Learner feat permanently gives you Bluff and Disguise as class skills, and gives you access to the bardy spell list. Then, 4 levels of Cleric, taking the Magic Domain, Domain Spontaneity, DMM, whatever.

Then, take two levels in Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1), and pick Customize Domain as your floating bonus feat. Once per day, you can customize your spontaneous spell list. You have legitimate access to the entire Bard list, which contains some unique spells, and some fun stuff that's discounted in spell level. It's less clear wether or not you can put the spells you know through Chameleon into your Magic Domain- but if you could, that'd be every spell under level 6, ever. Eat your heart out, Batman.

Chronos
2007-11-18, 09:29 PM
Or, if you want to get really cheesy:
Animal: Spells that specifically affect animals, spells that summon animals, spells that have animals in their name (such as bull's strength and owl's wisdom).And the rules elsewhere state that you can rename your spells or class features to anything you want. Cheetah's Celerity, anyone, or Hummingbird's Time Stop? Or heck, Platypus' Wish? This way, you can get around the "one level less" restriction in the Magic domain.

JaxGaret
2007-11-18, 10:15 PM
Or, if you want to get really cheesy:And the rules elsewhere state that you can rename your spells or class features to anything you want. Cheetah's Celerity, anyone, or Hummingbird's Time Stop? Or heck, Platypus' Wish? This way, you can get around the "one level less" restriction in the Magic domain.

:biggrin:

Now that is cheese.

JaxGaret
2007-11-18, 10:19 PM
A good non-cheese non-broken application of this feat is with Domains that have great powers but poor spell lists.

I'm guessing that that was the design purpose behind it in the first place.

Epic_Wizard
2007-11-18, 10:22 PM
I would challange you to direct me to those rules, and it's a house rule/"over there" doesn't count, and to get that past ANY DM that wasn't on some REALLY powerful narcotics.

Also this whole thing, while theoretically powerful, fails in terms of real world applications. You still only get nine or ten spells from some other list and overall that really doesn't help that much. It's the same reason you don't fill up all of your spell slots with fireballs. You never know when there will be a Red Dragon around the corner :smallbiggrin: .

Domain Spontaneity runs into the same problem except that now you not only have to deal with "Red Dragons" but Undead once all your Turn uses are gone.

I know this is all theoretical but you really do have to stop it short of making broad assumptions about the state of the world because at that point you are basically just playing a broken DM's character.

Blasterfire
2007-11-18, 10:36 PM
I would challange you to direct me to those rules, and it's a house rule/"over there" doesn't count, and to get that past ANY DM that wasn't on some REALLY powerful narcotics.

Also this whole thing, while theoretically powerful, fails in terms of real world applications. You still only get nine or ten spells from some other list and overall that really doesn't help that much. It's the same reason you don't fill up all of your spell slots with fireballs. You never know when there will be a Red Dragon around the corner :smallbiggrin: .

Domain Spontaneity runs into the same problem except that now you not only have to deal with "Red Dragons" but Undead once all your Turn uses are gone.

I know this is all theoretical but you really do have to stop it short of making broad assumptions about the state of the world because at that point you are basically just playing a broken DM's character.

The chameleon build posted earlier gives MUCH more versatility.

brian c
2007-11-18, 10:40 PM
I would challange you to direct me to those rules, and it's a house rule/"over there" doesn't count, and to get that past ANY DM that wasn't on some REALLY powerful narcotics.

Also this whole thing, while theoretically powerful, fails in terms of real world applications. You still only get nine or ten spells from some other list and overall that really doesn't help that much. It's the same reason you don't fill up all of your spell slots with fireballs. You never know when there will be a Red Dragon around the corner :smallbiggrin: .

Domain Spontaneity runs into the same problem except that now you not only have to deal with "Red Dragons" but Undead once all your Turn uses are gone.

I know this is all theoretical but you really do have to stop it short of making broad assumptions about the state of the world because at that point you are basically just playing a broken DM's character.

You said it yourself, it's a theoretical build. There's a big difference between theoretical and practical builds. To adapt this into a practical technique, it won't be quite as powerful, but there are in fact DMs out there who accept everything by RAW (and/or can easily be convinced that something will be okay when it's not).

Also, the reason you don't fill up all of your spell slots with fireball is because direct damage spells are subpar. Stinking Cloud, Hold Person, Slow, Suggestion... and that's just core 3rd level Sorc/Wiz spells that would be better choices, plus utility like Fly.

Fishy
2007-11-19, 04:24 AM
The chameleon build posted earlier gives MUCH more versatility.

Come to think of it, I wonder if you'd be better off going Beguiler -> Chameleon, and using your floaty bonus feat to get Arcane Disciple, turning you into a mini-Favored Soul of (Today's Deity). It's certainly more DM friendly.

EDIT: Duh, it's missing Domain Spontaneity. So the actual build would be Dread Necromancer/Chameleon, and then you'd have to ask yourself why you weren't an Archivist. Nevermind, then.

Epic_Wizard
2007-11-19, 08:22 AM
I guess I just don't have it in me to create completely broken characters. I am however quite good at combining spells into doom. Especially Epic Spell creation. For emphasis http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23726.

In any case my point was that you should stop short of making broad assumptions about the world the character is in when you are determining how broken/useful they are.

As for Fireballs that was exactly my point. Pure damage just doesn't work because there are so many ways around it. Resist energy for one. The same thing goes for only having access to nine or ten Sor/Wiz spells. Heck the entire point of a Wizard over a Sorcerer is that while the Sorcerer has more on the spot options the Wizard has a very large pool of spells to draw from and can if he has enough information to go on can do a LOT of damage/harm/inconvenience to his enemies through his large range of spell options.

Just checking but none of you are assuming that Domain Spontaneity would let you cast ANY Sor/Wiz spell are you?

Fishy
2007-11-19, 09:08 AM
Just checking but none of you are assuming that Domain Spontaneity would let you cast ANY Sor/Wiz spell are you?

Yes, actually.

Customize Domain (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Customize_Domain,all) lets you pick any 9 spells, from level 0-8, from any spell list of any of your classes. If you have a 1-level dip in Sorcerer or Wizard, that means you get to choose your 9 favorite Sorcerer/Wizard spells, and those form your own personal Magic Domain. Domain Spontaneity lets you spontaneously cast any of those 9 spells, by sacrificing a spell slot of equal or higher level and a Turn Undead Attempt.

Furthermore! The Chameleon PrC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) gives you a bonus feat at level 2, which you can change once every 24 hours. If you take Customize Domain in that slot, you get to pick your 9 favorite spells again, and you get to change those 9 spells once a day. This is the Batman effect, the real power of Wizards: if you know that you will want one particular spell sometime on Tuesday, you can put it into your Magic Domain on Monday night.

Keld Denar
2007-11-19, 10:04 AM
Another thing, you can't combine Divine Spontinaity with DMM since you can't take 2 swift actions in a round. You'd actually have to hard cast any spell you want to DMM. Which if still plenty fine the case of DMM Persist, because you are only probably casting it once a day anyway (since it lasts ALL DAY).

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-11-19, 10:17 AM
You don't even need the Domain Spontaneity feat. Just check in the PHB2 for the spontaneous domain variant. Now your domains slots have cure or inflict spells(depending on alignment) and you cast the spells from your domain spontaneously. Your batman powers are now no longer limited to how often you can turn/rebuke a day.

Chronos
2007-11-19, 12:04 PM
Just checking but none of you are assuming that Domain Spontaneity would let you cast ANY Sor/Wiz spell are you?Well, not quite. Unless you're using Platypus Cheese like I mentioned above (hey, platypi are technically mammals, so you should be able to get dairy products from them), I don't think that you can use Customize Domain to get Dominate Monster, Weird, Shades, or Wish. But all of the other Wiz 9 spells either fit into some customized domain or other, or are already on the cleric list. And anything at all lower than 9th can come into the customized magic domain, if nothing else. And even of those four exceptions, Wail of the Banshee (customized death domain) is better than Weird, you can just get whatever spell you'd simulate with Shades, and Miracle is better than Wish. So basically, you can get all of the wizard spells you'd want except for Dominate Monster via this trick.

brian c
2007-11-19, 02:28 PM
Well, not quite. Unless you're using Platypus Cheese like I mentioned above (hey, platypi are technically mammals, so you should be able to get dairy products from them), I don't think that you can use Customize Domain to get Dominate Monster, Weird, Shades, or Wish. But all of the other Wiz 9 spells either fit into some customized domain or other, or are already on the cleric list. And anything at all lower than 9th can come into the customized magic domain, if nothing else. And even of those four exceptions, Wail of the Banshee (customized death domain) is better than Weird, you can just get whatever spell you'd simulate with Shades, and Miracle is better than Wish. So basically, you can get all of the wizard spells you'd want except for Dominate Monster via this trick.

Well, if you open up Customize Domain to other domain options besides those listed (this of course would be subject to DM approval) then you could put Dominate Monster in the Domination domain (CDivine). Also, the Tyrant domain (CWarrior) has Dominate Monster as the 9th level spell, and is a very good domain for a dominating cleric since the granted power is +2 DC on compulsion spells.

Edit: Upon further reflection, I'm sure there are domains out there that could lend themselves to any of those other spells also (Weird, Shades, maybe Wish). Customize domain gets even more broken if you allow it for all published domains, even though it would be by DM approval only.

Darkxarth
2007-11-19, 03:11 PM
I would challange you to direct me to those rules, and it's a house rule/"over there" doesn't count, and to get that past ANY DM that wasn't on some REALLY powerful narcotics.

I know it was in 3rd Edition, but I don't think those few sentences were transferred from 3.0 to 3.5. But here (http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3796937&postcount=7)'s someone else mentioning it.

However, the 3.5 PHB does, under the Spell Descriptions section on page 172, say:

Name: The first line of every spell description gives the name by which the spell is generally known.

Emphasis mine. This doesn't specifically say you can change the names of your spells, but it seems to imply that changing their names is not restricted. And there are also the changes to spell names in the SRD for example, getting rid of Bigby, Drawmij, Evard, Leomund, Melf, Mordenkainen, Nystul, Otilke, Otto, Rary, Tasha, and Tenser and replacing them with more generic terms. I'd say as long as the player was very animal-focused that renaming a number of spells like that would be fine. My thought is anyone would go to that level of roleplaying isn't planning on "breaking the game" anyway, but this might not be appropriate for all players/DMs.

Chronos
2007-11-19, 04:26 PM
I'd say as long as the player was very animal-focused that renaming a number of spells like that would be fine. My thought is anyone would go to that level of roleplaying isn't planning on "breaking the game" anyway, but this might not be appropriate for all players/DMs.Let me assure you, I was most definitely planning on breaking the game when I suggested Platypus' Wish. But the problem there isn't in the renaming of the spells themselves; it's just in using it as yet another way to break a very easily-broken feat.

brian c
2007-11-19, 05:04 PM
Let me assure you, I was most definitely planning on breaking the game when I suggested Platypus' Wish. But the problem there isn't in the renaming of the spells themselves; it's just in using it as yet another way to break a very easily-broken feat.

Does Djinni count as an animal? Because I don't think anyone could argue re-naming the spell to Djinni's Wish

namo
2007-11-19, 05:26 PM
Since this would only work in a fairly permissive game, I fail to see how it is better than an Archivist.

Sure, it's nice to be able to cast spontaneously a hand-picked list of spells, but they're 1 level higher and you spent 1 class level and a feat on it... Perhaps I'm missing something.

brian c
2007-11-19, 05:48 PM
Since this would only work in a fairly permissive game, I fail to see how it is better than an Archivist.

Sure, it's nice to be able to cast spontaneously a hand-picked list of spells, but they're 1 level higher and you spent 1 class level and a feat on it... Perhaps I'm missing something.

Only the Magic domain has the "one level higher" criteria. For most other domains, it's same level as long as it more or less thematically fits with the domain.

Epic_Wizard
2007-11-20, 09:57 AM
Okay yes the Chameleon build works. The trick being of course that you need to know what you will need on Tuesday and you still don't get the variety of spells to choose from that a Wizard does. Not all that broken by my estimation.