Gritty Realism Implications/Houserules

[strangebloke]

Hey all!

I like using the Gritty Realism rest rules. They are slightly more realistic, and also allow for more faffing about in social/political games while still giving a large number of encounters between each rest. It lets me relax a bit on the time pressure, which is useful for anything that isn't a really straightforward 'go to castle, save princess' quest. They also let me use the downtime rules more often, which I see as a good thing.

Now, mostly this doesn't impact class balance, since it's the same number of encounters they'd get anyway. But there are a few implications that people don't realize right away that I wanted to fix. Here's the additional houserules I added to 'fix' some of the weirdness of gritty realism.


Long rests are 7 days of downtime. Long Rests remove all levels of exhaustion.
Short rests require eight hours of downtime.
Downtime during a long rest can include nonlethal combat (for sport or training), gambling, criminal activities, research, crafting, or shopping, or other useful tasks so long as no spells are cast and no (lethal) damage is taken.
Overland Travel while resting is done at a quarter speed.
Magic items that regain charges each day, now do so at the start of each week.
Spells with a duration of 8 hours now have a duration of 24 hours.
Spells with a duration of 24 hours (including animate dead) now have a duration of “until the end of the next long rest.)

Additionally, within some dungeons there will be the good-old-fashioned "Short Rest Holy Spring" to ensure that I can still have a good long dungeon crawl once in a while. (alternately, their employer for a given mission might pass out scrolls of catnap)

Is there anything I've missed? Do the 1 hour durations need to be tweaked as well?

[Unoriginal]

You don't have downtime when you Long Rest. You rest. So no, no Downtime activity.

[Potato_Priest]

You don't have downtime when you Long Rest. You rest. So no, no Downtime activity.

I believe that the OP is creating a house rule so that there is downtime during a long rest, which seems like a very good idea for realism and game pacing when using the gritty realism variant rules.

[Unoriginal]

I believe that the OP is creating a house rule so that there is downtime during a long rest, which seems like a very good idea for realism and game pacing when using the gritty realism variant rules.

Given that OP says those are implications he identified, by my understanding he is saying that those points are what the RAW says can happen.

Also, I don't see how having Downtime while you Long Rest for Gritty Realism is a good idea.

The whole point of "Gritty Realism" is to make recovering from adventuring last longer. I don't see anything gritty nor realistic about a person getting stabbed to near death by thugs as they were investigating a political rival's dirty dealings, then going up during the week they're supposed to be recovering and participating in a fighting tournament or spending hours in a casino.

It's something you'd see in a James Bond or comic book movie, pulp fiction works, or stuff-blowing-up action flics. Not in a gritty and realistic world.

[strangebloke]

You don't have downtime when you Long Rest. You rest. So no, no Downtime activity.


I believe that the OP is creating a house rule so that there is downtime during a long rest, which seems like a very good idea for realism and game pacing when using the gritty realism variant rules.

Everything I'm doing as far as houserules on the matter is included in the paragraph above. You'll note that I don't directly reference the gritty realism rules, because frankly, what would be the point? My players don't have a copy of the DMG. That said, some clarity is probably needed. I wouldn't allow pit-fighting or crime, typically, and depending on the nature of the crafting (IE, blacksmithing) and the condition of the person recovering (IE, a rogue with 90% of his HP intact vs. a near-dead wizard) I might not allow crafting.

My thinking here was that 7 days of bedrest is a bit weird... Especially since the last campaign I did they spent more time resting than not-resting. 3 days dungeoneering, 7 days resting. 3 days fighting criminals, 7 days resting. This way its less like they're perpetual hospital residents and more like they're adventurers who also have day jobs.

It is still a little weird. I mean, a player could easily say: "Do I have to take downtime? Can I just have complete bedrest and shorten my recovery time?" But I mean, rests are a pretty much totally gameified mechanic anyway.

[strangebloke]

Given that OP says those are implications he identified, by my understanding he is saying that those points are what the RAW says can happen.

Also, I don't see how having Downtime while you Long Rest for Gritty Realism is a good idea.

The whole point of "Gritty Realism" is to make recovering from adventuring last longer. I don't see anything gritty nor realistic about a person getting stabbed to near death by thugs as they were investigating a political rival's dirty dealings, then going up during the week they're supposed to be recovering and participating in a fighting tournament or spending hours in a casino.

It's something you'd see in a James Bond or comic book movie, pulp fiction works, or stuff-blowing-up action flics. Not in a gritty and realistic world.

This is not my reading of RAW. These are my houserules, with inclusions of additional clauses that I think help make gritty realism work better. Gritty realism by RAW doesn't change spell durations or item recharges, which is a bit silly, honestly.

As to recovery... eh. I mean, with non-gritty rests, an elf could certainly go gambling during the hours they're not sleeping in a long rest. Rests, gritty or otherwise are basically always a gameified mechanic. If you want to make things realistic you really need an injury mechanic. (which I will also be using. One of the common non-magical treaments I homebrewed for an injury is '7 days bedrest' as downtime activity.)

[dejarnjc]

Also, I don't see how having Downtime while you Long Rest for Gritty Realism is a good idea.



That's your loss, IMO downtime activities while you long rest for a week are an awesome idea. So many fantastic options and it helps make DnD games feel less like a Dan Brown novel in terms of pacing.

[Unoriginal]

Everything I'm doing as far as houserules on the matter is included in the paragraph above. You'll note that I don't directly reference the gritty realism rules, because frankly, what would be the point? My players don't have a copy of the DMG. That said, some clarity is probably needed. I wouldn't allow pit-fighting or crime, typically, and depending on the nature of the crafting (IE, blacksmithing) and the condition of the person recovering (IE, a rogue with 90% of his HP intact vs. a near-dead wizard) I might not allow crafting.

My thinking here was that 7 days of bedrest is a bit weird... Especially since the last campaign I did they spent more time resting than not-resting. 3 days dungeoneering, 7 days resting. 3 days fighting criminals, 7 days resting. This way its less like they're perpetual hospital residents and more like they're adventurers who also have day jobs.

It is still a little weird. I mean, a player could easily say: "Do I have to take downtime? Can I just have complete bedrest and shorten my recovery time?" But I mean, rests are a pretty much totally gameified mechanic anyway.

Sounds to me like you'd be happier with a variant that made Long Rests last 2-3 days rather 7.


This is not my reading of RAW. These are my houserules, with inclusions of additional clauses that I think help make gritty realism work better.

Fair. I apologize for my misunderstanding. You should probably call this "houserules" rather than "implications", though, to make it clearer.


Gritty realism by RAW doesn't change spell durations or item recharges, which is a bit silly, honestly.

The idea is that spell durations are short compared to the time it takes to recover them, I think. As for the magic items, well, it's even more of a power boost with the RAW Gritty Realism, since they recover way faster than the PCs.



As to recovery... eh. I mean, with non-gritty rests, an elf could certainly go gambling during the hours they're not sleeping in a long rest.

Maybe, but they couldn't do the Gambling downtime activity. And as you said, it's the non-gritty rests.



Rests, gritty or otherwise are basically always a gameified mechanic. If you want to make things realistic you really need an injury mechanic. (which I will also be using. One of the common non-magical treaments I homebrewed for an injury is '7 days bedrest' as downtime activity.)

Oh, sure, any attempt at realism in D&D is at best a misnomer and at worst out of place. Point is, your rules kind of go against the idea of what the game call "Gritty Realism".

Which is not a bad thing if you want something different from "Gritty Realism"


That's your loss, IMO downtime activities while you long rest for a week are an awesome idea. So many fantastic options and it helps make DnD games feel less like a Dan Brown novel in terms of pacing.

What are your arguments to describe "person get stabbed and need one week to recover their health, but can still go participate MMA fights or do every drinking every night" as either "gritty" or "realistic"?

[strangebloke]

Sounds to me like you'd be happier with a variant that made Long Rests last 2-3 days rather 7.
I've done this as well. It's mostly identical. I will note that this makes the number of situations where you can take a short rest but not a long rest a lot smaller. Default SR is 1/24th the time of a LR. Gritty SR is 1/21st the time of a LR. Your SR is 1/4 to 1/6 the length of a LR.

Fair. I apologize for my misunderstanding. You should probably call this "houserules" rather than "implications", though, to make it clearer.
I changed the OP a little bit.

The idea is that spell durations are short compared to the time it takes to recover them, I think. As for the magic items, well, it's even more of a power boost with the RAW Gritty Realism, since they recover way faster than the PCs.
It massively unbalances the game though. The whole point of mage armor, hex, and lots of other staple spells is that they have a long duration.

Maybe, but they couldn't do the Gambling downtime activity. And as you said, it's the non-gritty rests.
Your argument for why you couldn't do the gambling activity was that long rest precludes it. I showed that it didn't. It still precludes downtime, but that's a purely artificial thing. If I can gamble while not sleeping in a long rest, and that's enough time to qualify as downtime... seems pretty arbitrary to me.


Oh, sure, any attempt at realism in D&D is at best a misnomer and at worst out of place. Point is, your rules kind of go against the idea of what the game call "Gritty Realism".

Which is not a bad thing if you want something different from "Gritty Realism"
It's against what the rules mean by Gritty Realism in that I'm homebrewing some small aspects, sure. But I disagree that it's less realistic. The guy who got a broken arm spending a week in the hospital while the rogue who took a paltry amount of damage plays cards seems more realistic than "Everyone needs total bedrest, even the guy who wants to recover 1 HP." I mean, I'd say a guy who has 1 hit point left isn't really injured in the way you seem to be implying. The guy can still turn cartwheels, run a mile, and drink a bucket of ale, probably all at the same time. I'm a firm believer in "HP is not meat." A guy with one HP left has lots of cuts and bruises, sure, but he isn't bleeding out on the floor.

What are your arguments to describe "person get stabbed and need one week to recover their health, but can still go participate MMA fights or do every drinking every night" as either "gritty" or "realistic"?
That isn't what he's saying. He's just saying that downtime, in general, is desirable. It's clearly trivial to preclude certain downtime activities. And anyway, fighting for money could be wrestling, tai chi, fencing... all sports that really wouldn't result in damage of any kind.

[Potato_Priest]

This seems like a good system for what you're trying to make it do. It'll allow the PCs to be town/city folk who also go on adventures rather than, as you said, permanent hospital residents. I expect that playing with this system classes like the artificier that have ways to turn downtime into mechanical power might be more popular.

I generally think that the gritty rest system is a good thing to start with and then modify for the type of campaign that you want. I've often thought about another variety of houserule rest system for a Lewis and Clark expedition style campaign, in which a short rest would be 8 hours and a long rest would be 24 hours but you could only take one once every 7 days. It would still allow me to distribute encounters at a more realistic rate than 6-8 dangerous animals and/or really significant noncombat obstacles per day, without requiring the group to take huge long pit stops every other week.

[Luccan]

I think you're gonna want a lot of testing on the new magic rules, but the rest seems logical. Yeah, if you only need to recover a couple HP, I don't see why you need to spend a week getting bed rest. Plus, you'd never make use of downtime rules if you had too.

[strangebloke]

I think you're gonna want a lot of testing on the new magic rules, but the rest seems logical. Yeah, if you only need to recover a couple HP, I don't see why you need to spend a week getting bed rest. Plus, you'd never make use of downtime rules if you had too.

I think I'll run into some weirdness with spells like contagion or contingency that have super long durations, but it shouldn't be anything debilitating.

[Pronounceable]

Gritty Realism

Gaming>Roleplaying Games>D&D 5e/Next
Does not compute.

Do yourself a favor and don't do this.

[strangebloke]

Does not compute.

Do yourself a favor and don't do this.

It's what the rules are called, man. I didn't name 'em. I'd probably call just call them the slow pace rules.

[dejarnjc]

What are your arguments to describe "person get stabbed and need one week to recover their health, but can still go participate MMA fights or do every drinking every night" as either "gritty" or "realistic"?

Maybe you should use your imagination a bit more if you think those are the only downtime activities available to PCs.

And hell, hitpoints are an abstraction. Who's to say any PC was even stabbed? You're making an awful lot of assumptions here in order to make a "point".

[smcmike]

These all look good to me. I would also allow ritual casting and cantrips use since that doesn’t interfere with spell slots, and is consistent with how I imagine a wizard spending his study time.

The real question isn’t what the characters are allowed to do during long rests, but how much you give them to do, and how you present it. If you are skimming over the details anyways, it doesn’t matter whether they spend the time in bed or out carousing. If you are giving them actual challenges, challenges that one might reasonably expect to solve with violence, then the long long rest mechanic actually can end up feeling artificial. “I’m sorry, I cannot fight you until Tuesday, when I’m expecting to get my spell slots back...”

Maybe the answer is to take it on a case-by-case basis and focus on which benefits the players are hoping to achieve. The fighter who took a sword to the guy on day one of the adventure (knocked to 0 hp, with narration of an injury) may have bounced back over the next few days with short rest healing, but he really needs to just take it easy to get his hit dice back - no strenuous activity at all. The uninjured wizard who just wants his spell slots back needs to spend many hours a day studying, but could honestly spend his off-hours running laps around the town walls (studying and running go very well together).

[Princesse]

I use the realism rule for adventuring and the normal rules for downtime.
Meaning i mix both so when the adventurers are confortable in their bed, they have a longrest every night, but when they're in the mud while it's raining, under a small tent...they get only a short rest.

What i love about that is that i can use the ''6 encounters per longrest'' so easily, not having to shoe-horn 6 encounters in a day, i can do it in 4-5 days and everything is fluid. Sometimes i also give them gifts like a longrest when they have somewhere very safe like the house of an ally or they rent a confy room in a safe tavern. Or sometimes they get a shortrest when fully clearing a dungeon and locking the doors magicly. It all depends and it works so great i would never go back to the old rules.

[strangebloke]

These all look good to me. I would also allow ritual casting and cantrips use since that doesn’t interfere with spell slots, and is consistent with how I imagine a wizard spending his study time.

The real question isn’t what the characters are allowed to do during long rests, but how much you give them to do, and how you present it. If you are skimming over the details anyways, it doesn’t matter whether they spend the time in bed or out carousing. If you are giving them actual challenges, challenges that one might reasonably expect to solve with violence, then the long long rest mechanic actually can end up feeling artificial. “I’m sorry, I cannot fight you until Tuesday, when I’m expecting to get my spell slots back...”

Maybe the answer is to take it on a case-by-case basis and focus on which benefits the players are hoping to achieve. The fighter who took a sword to the guy on day one of the adventure (knocked to 0 hp, with narration of an injury) may have bounced back over the next few days with short rest healing, but he really needs to just take it easy to get his hit dice back - no strenuous activity at all. The uninjured wizard who just wants his spell slots back needs to spend many hours a day studying, but could honestly spend his off-hours running laps around the town walls (studying and running go very well together).

Well, the downtime is actually a pretty small part of what I made this thread for. I had a pretty good idea of how I wanted things to work as far as that went. I have rudimentary social challenge rules in addition to the downtime rules, but the time in between adventures is designed to be short. Like, hopefully less than 20 minutes in-game unless there's a lot of role-playing. Like:

p1:"We're going to rest in this town."
Me:"Ok, it's a podunk village, what do you want to do?"
p2:"Shop for magic items."
*rolls*
Me:"After a lot of digging, you find that the Earl has a periapt of wound closure he might be persuaded to part with..."
p2: "No thanks."
p1: "Same as last time. Carousing."
*rolls*
Me:"You hear news from a merchant coming from Skullport, that the Red Sails have been sighted off the coast of the Drakehause."
p1: "Oh crap, do you share this with me?"
p2: "Sure, yeah."
Me: "And p3?"
p3: "I'm in the temple of Pelor with a broken leg..."
Me: "Right."
etc.

I have an idea for a 'partial long rest' where the players get their hit dice and half their spells back, but no HP. Does that seem reasonable?

What I really want to hear about is genuine problems that these rule changes could cause. Like, "'x' spell is totally overpowered now! Why did you mess with durations?" Or "inspiring leader is broke as anything now. 10 minutes is nothing over the course of a day!" or "You covered spells, but what about 'x' class feature?"

Stuff like that.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe you should use your imagination a bit more if you think those are the only downtime activities available to PCs.

And hell, hitpoints are an abstraction. Who's to say any PC was even stabbed? You're making an awful lot of assumptions here in order to make a "point".

Maybe you should use your imagination a bit more if you think that situation will never present itself.


Maybe it's just a difference of assumption. I really don't see a party stopping one week to recover unless they're all at the end of their rope in spells and HDs, since otherwise they could just Short Rest. The guy who got slightly bruised in an encounter or who has spent two spell slots out of 8 doesn't need a Long Rest.

To me, it kind of remove the idea that adventuring is harsh if the PCs stop for 7 days when they're in good enough shape to continue it or have normal daily activities.

That being said, I agree with strangebloke that the guy who lost 1 HPs should be allowed to have downtime while others recover. It's just that, well, not all of the PCs need to have a Long Rest at the same time, so Sir Lexophone could go tinker mechanism in his study or go hunting or whatever while Sir Bartrand is recovering from the nasty troll encounter that could have ended him.

[strangebloke]

Maybe it's just a difference of assumption. I really don't see a party stopping one week to recover unless they're all at the end of their rope in spells and HDs, since otherwise they could just Short Rest.

I mean, I assume that they're pretty much tapped as well. As a party, anyway. Individuals might be fine. But they're 'tapped,' not heavily injured. (unless they are) Their luck, morale, and energy have run out, and they're banged up, but it isn't like they're coughing up blood. A guy with 1 HP left, no spells, and no hit dice left is still standing. He's alive. He's fine, really. I mean, a stiff breeze could knock him over, and he's all kinds of scraped and bruised, but he walked into town on his own two feet and he could walk out again if he had to. All he really needs at the moment is a warm mug of ale and a soft bed, and few days to stay at home and tinker with some bits of metal. Or a few days to spend worshiping at the temple. Or just a few days getting drunk with friends to wash away all that psychic damage.

[dejarnjc]

Maybe you should use your imagination a bit more if you think that situation will never present itself.



Considering we're here talking about one person's homebrew rules... I'm pretty confident that situation probably won't present itself.

[Malifice]

Hey all!

I like using the Gritty Realism rest rules. They are slightly more realistic, and also allow for more faffing about in social/political games while still giving a large number of encounters between each rest. It lets me relax a bit on the time pressure, which is useful for anything that isn't a really straightforward 'go to castle, save princess' quest. They also let me use the downtime rules more often, which I see as a good thing.

Now, mostly this doesn't impact class balance, since it's the same number of encounters they'd get anyway. But there are a few implications that people don't realize right away that I wanted to fix. Here's the additional houserules I added to 'fix' some of the weirdness of gritty realism.


Long rests are 7 days of downtime. Long Rests remove all levels of exhaustion.
Short rests require eight hours of downtime.
Downtime during a long rest can include nonlethal combat (for sport or training), gambling, criminal activities, research, crafting, or shopping, or other useful tasks so long as no spells are cast and no (lethal) damage is taken.
Overland Travel while resting is done at a quarter speed.
Magic items that regain charges each day, now do so at the start of each week.
Spells with a duration of 8 hours now have a duration of 24 hours.
Spells with a duration of 24 hours (including animate dead) now have a duration of “until the end of the next long rest.)

Additionally, within some dungeons there will be the good-old-fashioned "Short Rest Holy Spring" to ensure that I can still have a good long dungeon crawl once in a while. (alternately, their employer for a given mission might pass out scrolls of catnap)

Is there anything I've missed? Do the 1 hour durations need to be tweaked as well?

Exhaustion should come back overnight (on a short rest). It's too punishing otherwise.

[strangebloke]

Exhaustion should come back overnight (on a short rest). It's too punishing otherwise.

I mean, it is meant to be punishing, it isn't really bad until you get to two levels or more, there aren't a lot of effects that give exhaustion by default, and you can use a spell to get rid of it if you're past 5th level.

I don't know, doesn't seem that over-the top to me.

[Eric Diaz]

But there are a few implications that people don't realize right away that I wanted to fix. Here's the additional houserules I added to 'fix' some of the weirdness of gritty realism.


Long rests are 7 days of downtime. Long Rests remove all levels of exhaustion.
Short rests require eight hours of downtime.
Downtime during a long rest can include nonlethal combat (for sport or training), gambling, criminal activities, research, crafting, or shopping, or other useful tasks so long as no spells are cast and no (lethal) damage is taken.
Overland Travel while resting is done at a quarter speed.
Magic items that regain charges each day, now do so at the start of each week.
Spells with a duration of 8 hours now have a duration of 24 hours.
Spells with a duration of 24 hours (including animate dead) now have a duration of “until the end of the next long rest.)

Additionally, within some dungeons there will be the good-old-fashioned "Short Rest Holy Spring" to ensure that I can still have a good long dungeon crawl once in a while. (alternately, their employer for a given mission might pass out scrolls of catnap)

Is there anything I've missed? Do the 1 hour durations need to be tweaked as well?

My (very random) 2c:

I wouldn't change spell durations TBH... but if I would, then I might make use of Ars Magica concepts (until the moon changes, until dawn, etc).

About keeping the 1 hour durations unchanged... at a first glance it seems that it might devalue the warlock if you're having multiple separate combats each day, but I'm not sure.

As for the "Short Rest Holy Spring", I use them myself, but "short rest is one hour if you do nothing and have a roof over your head, eight hours when traveling in the wilderness" seems to work well for my group.

A similar solution - one that I like more - is making 24-hours long rests if you find yourself in Rivendell, Tanelorn, etc.

[Eric Diaz]

I mean, it is meant to be punishing, it isn't really bad until you get to two levels or more, there aren't a lot of effects that give exhaustion by default, and you can use a spell to get rid of it if you're past 5th level.

I don't know, doesn't seem that over-the top to me.

So, Berserker is out of luck?

EDIT: also, one day without water = one week of rest needed to recuperate. Although it might make some sense for food - four days without eating does sound like a lot, more than you should be able to recuperate in one day (and, RAW, it seems you only need to eat once every four days IIRC...).

[Malifice]

I mean, it is meant to be punishing, it isn't really bad until you get to two levels or more, there aren't a lot of effects that give exhaustion by default, and you can use a spell to get rid of it if you're past 5th level.

I don't know, doesn't seem that over-the top to me.

You can use a spell to get rid of it, but that spell is 3rd level, has a costly material component, doest appear on everyones list, and takes a whole week of rest to get back.

Seriously; exhaustion should come back overnight. Taking 3 weeks of bedrest to recover 3 levels of exhaustion is pretty OTT.

Think of your Berserker barbarians.

[strangebloke]

You can use a spell to get rid of it, but that spell is 3rd level, has a costly material component, doest appear on everyones list, and takes a whole week of rest to get back.

Seriously; exhaustion should come back overnight. Taking 3 weeks of bedrest to recover 3 levels of exhaustion is pretty OTT.

Think of your Berserker barbarians.

I do have a long rest remove all levels of exhaustion. I'm not all that opposed to removing one level per short rest, really, I just also don't see the argument for it.

Berserker seems like a separate problem, honestly.

[strangebloke]

My (very random) 2c:

I wouldn't change spell durations TBH... but if I would, then I might make use of Ars Magica concepts (until the moon changes, until dawn, etc).

About keeping the 1 hour durations unchanged... at a first glance it seems that it might devalue the warlock if you're having multiple separate combats each day, but I'm not sure.

As for the "Short Rest Holy Spring", I use them myself, but "short rest is one hour if you do nothing and have a roof over your head, eight hours when traveling in the wilderness" seems to work well for my group.

A similar solution - one that I like more - is making 24-hours long rests if you find yourself in Rivendell, Tanelorn, etc.

Why wouldn't you change the other durations? To my mind:

24 hours-meant to be constantly up.
8 hours-meant to last whole adventuring day
1 hour- meant to last until next short rest
10 minutes- next combat
1 minute- this combat.

1 and 10 minute durations don't need changing. 1 hour might... If we're scaling it like the rests the duration should be 24 hours. Following that logic:

24 hours -> until end of next long rest
8 hours -> 1 week
1 hour -> 24 hours.

I'm mostly keeping the one hour duration unchanged because I don't like exceptions, and there are spells like aura of vitality that absolutely would require an exception.

[Eric Diaz]

Why wouldn't you change the other durations? To my mind:

24 hours-meant to be constantly up.
8 hours-meant to last whole adventuring day
1 hour- meant to last until next short rest
10 minutes- next combat
1 minute- this combat.

1 and 10 minute durations don't need changing. 1 hour might... If we're scaling it like the rests the duration should be 24 hours. Following that logic:

24 hours -> until end of next long rest
8 hours -> 1 week
1 hour -> 24 hours.

I'm mostly keeping the one hour duration unchanged because I don't like exceptions, and there are spells like aura of vitality that absolutely would require an exception.

Well, wouldn't you change the other durations because basically I think spellcasters do not need the fix as a general rule, they will be fine even with less resources. Although I am too tired to think of any good examples...

Aura of Vitality is 1 minute I think...

[Malifice]

I do have a long rest remove all levels of exhaustion. I'm not all that opposed to removing one level per short rest, really, I just also don't see the argument for it.

Berserker seems like a separate problem, honestly.

Taking a whole week to remove a single level of exhaustion sounds excessive. If you're moving short rests to overnight affairs, and long rests to week long bedrest and relaxation in a town, then I strongly advocate for exhausion to be removed at the rate of 1 level/ short rest.

Resting overnight removes a level of exhaustion.

I would also consider 'healing surges' in a gritty realism variant campaign:


As an action, a character can use a healing surge and spend up to half his or her Hit Dice (minimum of one). For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character's Constitution modifier. The character regains hit points equal to the total. The player can decide to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll.

A character who uses a healing surge can't do so again until he or she finishes a short or long rest.

Under this optional rule, a character regains all spent Hit Dice at the end of a long rest. With a short rest, a character regains Hit Dice equal to his or her level divided by four (minimum of one die).

Using the above with gritty realism means your PCs can still tackle dungeons; however they'll still need to be cautious with non HP resources. It also takes a bit of the drain away from your party healers.

[opaopajr]

These look like fun! Use them and report back how it went! :smallcool:

I will second that the Exhaustion rules will be too punishing. Sure it crimps some classes, but more importantly it makes wasteland travel inordinantly lethal. Suddenly brief oasis or island stops turn into month long affairs, compounding to make far travel take that much longer and massively slow trade. Large distances and seasonal weather already makes distant trade routes tenuous, this might push it into impractical. It'd isolate cultures further into little "points of light."

But that may be what you're looking for in your setting? :smallsmile:

[strangebloke]

Taking a whole week to remove a single level of exhaustion sounds excessive.

I would also consider 'healing surges' in a gritty realism variant campaign:

I mean at this point enough people have brought up exhaustion that I probably will edit it.

However, you are misunderstanding me. A long rest removes all levels of exhaustion. Like, you have five levels of exhaustion, you take a long rest, you have zero levels. The only way to get stuck in bedrest for a month is if you have multiple broken limbs through my injury system, which.... shouldn't happen outside of a very rough fight.


These look like fun! Use them and report back how it went! :smallcool:

I will second that the Exhaustion rules will be too punishing. Sure it crimps some classes, but more importantly it makes wasteland travel inordinantly lethal. Suddenly brief oasis or island stops turn into month long affairs, compounding to make far travel take that much longer and massively slow trade. Large distances and seasonal weather already makes distant trade routes tenuous, this might push it into impractical. It'd isolate cultures further into little "points of light."

But that may be what you're looking for in your setting? :smallsmile:

Once again, a long rest removes all levels of exhaustion. I guess... the best solution is to be really generous with exhaustion, but also generous with removing it, yeah?


Well, wouldn't you change the other durations because basically I think spellcasters do not need the fix as a general rule, they will be fine even with less resources. Although I am too tired to think of any good examples...

Aura of Vitality is 1 minute I think...

I'm fine with debuffing casters overall. But I don't want to exclude certain concepts entirely. Like, for example, necromancy is impossible with gritty rest rules. Not that I particularly want necromancers in my game, but.

[Eric Diaz]

Like, for example, necromancy is impossible with gritty rest rules.


Not that I particularly want necromancers in my game, but.

Heh... I probably agree with you on both accounts. :smallbiggrin:

[JackPhoenix]

Snip

Warlock who gets access to Animate Dead somehow isn't that big deal. He would normally get about 2-3 spell slot refreshes between long rests.

Warlock with your houserules is guaranteed to get 7 or more.

[strangebloke]

Warlock who gets access to Animate Dead somehow isn't that big deal. He would normally get about 2-3 spell slot refreshes between long rests.

Warlock with your houserules is guaranteed to get 7 or more.

Good catch! Yeah, I hadn't considered that. Most of the time the players won't have a full week in between long rests, but there is nothing that forces a player to take a long rest in my system. If he has healing and he's a warlock, taking a long rest may actually be a less efficient method of keeping his HP up.

And if you never take a long rest with my rules, the animate dead will never go away. That's literally an infinite loop I missed. Thanks. At the very least, I'll have to limit 24-hour durations to 7-10 days.

And then there are coffeelocks to contend with...

[Willie the Duck]

And if you never take a long rest with my rules, the animate dead will never go away. That's literally an infinite loop I missed. Thanks. At the very least, I'll have to limit 24-hour durations to 7-10 days.

And then there are coffeelocks to contend with...

Infinite loops in general are the kind of thing which need the flat-no response. Coffeelocks, well, I'm not sure that this makes them any more or less problematic then the already are.

[Luccan]

Infinite loops in general are the kind of thing which need the flat-no response. Coffeelocks, well, I'm not sure that this makes them any more or less problematic then the already are.

True, but in the case of Animate Dead, it's probably more a courtesy to the player to give them an actual time frame on their spells. They might not be trying to create an infinite loop, so giving an actual rule for that would be helpful.

[Lance Tankmen]

I also use gritty realism with a couple of my own home brewed rules. short rest are just every night they sleep, long rests require them to be in a settlement. Other wise I added regain free hit die on a short rest as I don't care how many encounters a day I throw at them. they can avoid any and all encounters a day by talking or running so I just let the dice fall where they may. I allow a 1 hour break twice a day if they want it where they can use hit die, sort of like a bandage up and recoup some stamina. I also a house rule to regain spells otherwise only wizards get spells back. otherwise I leave spells unchanged, and haven't had any negative feed back.

[strangebloke]

Infinite loops in general are the kind of thing which need the flat-no response. Coffeelocks, well, I'm not sure that this makes them any more or less problematic then the already are.
I'm not actually worried about a player intentionally stumbling into an infinite loop. I worry about them accidentally stumbling into one. In this case, I could easily see that happening. Although, granted, for this trick to work they need to be at least 10th level. 5 levels in wizard/divine soul/cleric and 5 levels in warlock. But it's at least theoretically possible.

True, but in the case of Animate Dead, it's probably more a courtesy to the player to give them an actual time frame on their spells. They might not be trying to create an infinite loop, so giving an actual rule for that would be helpful.
I mean, ultimately (and this is less for animate dead and more for other long lasting buffs, like arcanist's magic aura) the goal is to create a simple mapping, like:
24 hours -> 10 days
8 hours -> 5 days
1 hours -> 24 hr

As Eric pointed out, I could refluff it to:

24 hours -> next new moon or full moon (~15 days)
8 hours -> start of next week
1 hours -> dawn of the next day.

And doing so would be super rich and flavorful and also... a lot of work to keep track of. I'm not sure how I feel about it.


I also use gritty realism with a couple of my own home brewed rules. short rest are just every night they sleep, long rests require them to be in a settlement. Other wise I added regain free hit die on a short rest as I don't care how many encounters a day I throw at them. they can avoid any and all encounters a day by talking or running so I just let the dice fall where they may. I allow a 1 hour break twice a day if they want it where they can use hit die, sort of like a bandage up and recoup some stamina. I also a house rule to regain spells otherwise only wizards get spells back. otherwise I leave spells unchanged, and haven't had any negative feed back.

The problem with this is (and I do like the idea in general) what if part of your campaign is urban? Do things revert to 'normal rest rules but without short rests?'

[Lance Tankmen]

I'm not actually worried about a player intentionally stumbling into an infinite loop. I worry about them accidentally stumbling into one. In this case, I could easily see that happening. Although, granted, for this trick to work they need to be at least 10th level. 5 levels in wizard/divine soul/cleric and 5 levels in warlock. But it's at least theoretically possible.

I mean, ultimately (and this is less for animate dead and more for other long lasting buffs, like arcanist's magic aura) the goal is to create a simple mapping, like:
24 hours -> 10 days
8 hours -> 5 days
1 hours -> 24 hr

As Eric pointed out, I could refluff it to:

24 hours -> next new moon or full moon (~15 days)
8 hours -> start of next week
1 hours -> dawn of the next day.

And doing so would be super rich and flavorful and also... a lot of work to keep track of. I'm not sure how I feel about it.



The problem with this is (and I do like the idea in general) what if part of your campaign is urban? Do things revert to 'normal rest rules but without short rests?'


If its urban ? nothing changes they just might not get a long rest due to thugs in the night and street fights, my worlds sandbox so if they aren't liking a city they can move to a new one. its just how my world works so maybe for another this house rule wont work