UA - Order Domain - or How I like to boss people about, and make them grovel

[8wGremlin]

UA article gives us the Order Domain https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA_OrderDomain.pdf

it has:

Voice of AuthorityStarting at 1st level, you can invoke the power of law to drive an ally to attack. Immediately after you cast a spell on an ally using a spell slot of 1st level or higher, that ally can use their reaction to make one weapon attack against a target of your choice that you can see. If the spell targets more than one ally, you choose the ally who can make the attack.

so a 1st level dip for a Warlord-like feel, as long as you get to have lots of spells that you cast on others you're golden.

What can we do with this domain; what else can you suggest.

Order Cleric -> Enchanter wizard?
Order Cleric -> Glamour Bard?
Order Cleric -> Conquest Paladin?

what works, what doesn't etc... thoughts?

[ATHATH]

Note that, since you're your own ally, you can trigger Voice of Authority by targeting yourself with a spell.

Also note that the X Smite line of spells that Paladins get technically "target" the person that casts them.

[strangebloke]

Good with rogues to give them a reaction attack.
Really likes using high-level enchantment spells. I see a lot of upcast hold persons.
Channel Divinity is synergistic with conquest paladin.
Good with minionmancers at extremely high levels.

[MaxWilson]

what works, what doesn't etc... thoughts?

Thoughts? Well, it's a pretty offensive take on what Order is about. Coercion, really? As if Lawful Evil is the only kind of Lawful there is?

Would have made more sense to have something like the Hobgoblin's Saving Face feature or the old-school Defensive Harmony spell: a synergy which only works in a group setting. "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, etc." Lawfulness doesn't always have to be about groups and hierarchy, but at least that wouldn't be offensive.

[Malifice]

Mandatory level for my Warlord build?

Check.

[Ventruenox]

Multiclass with Mastermind Rogue to give an attack with advantage to allies.

Glamour Bard 3 provides a tactical retreat option for your Warlord build. Channel Divinity plus Glamour Bard 6 lets you cast a free Command as a bonus action. The Bard list has Enchantments worth casting to recover lesser spell slots, if you have a decent Charisma for it.

I personally want to use this subclass to make a Charlatan Faith Healer character.

[kardar233]

I’d be tempted to go till Order 6 for the lovely slot efficiency. Then, go Sorc, Wiz or Bard to widen the range of Enchantments you have available. You already have the Cleric staples of Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians, and then you get access to the lovely Enemies Abound, Hold Monster and Synaptic Static to use with your higher-level slots, plus Tasha’s, Hold Person and possibly Dissonant Whispers to use with what is returned. You can even keep Spiritual Weapon going as you’re tossing out enchantments to make use of your bonus action.

[NiklasWB]

"Voice of Authority" really should be incorporated into (hopefully) the upcoming Warlord Fighter Subclass (obviously no longer tied to spells however). This just doesn't feel like a Law/Order-cleric ability at all, but rather a Warlord/Commander ability.

"Order’s Dominion" feels like it's kind of breaking the amount of spells a high level caster can cast per day. There should be some sort of restriction in terms on how many times this can be used (look at Natural Recovery for land druids or Arcane Recovery for Wizards). This would need to be playtested, but it feels kind of broken just reading it.

"Order’s Wrath" becomes worthless in a party that doesn't use weapon attacks. It should also come into play by damaging cantrips (for example), but maybe not other spells or abilities. Also, is it each turn or each round? Each turn sounds like potentially ALOT of damage in an big sized all-martial party.

[strangebloke]

Thoughts? Well, it's a pretty offensive take on what Order is about. Coercion, really? As if Lawful Evil is the only kind of Lawful there is?

Would have made more sense to have something like the Hobgoblin's Saving Face feature or the old-school Defensive Harmony spell: a synergy which only works in a group setting. "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, etc." Lawfulness doesn't always have to be about groups and hierarchy, but at least that wouldn't be offensive.

I mean, a LG cleric might say, "Hey, these rioters are preventing us from keeping the streets safe. There's tons of robbery and vandalism going behind these protestesters. This riot is hurting the peasantry more than its hurting us. Time to use some non-lethal riot dispersion techniques."

Or he could be trying to bring in a criminal unharmed. Hold Person is great for that.

Not saying he'd be right or wrong. Just saying that's a self-consistent LG worldview. Ultimately, all adventurers are murder specialists. A coercion specialist is actually (imo) less morally questionable.

In fact, I'd argue that all lawful societies must employ coercion, but I've been given warnings for straying into real-world politics before.

[Malifice]

Thoughts? Well, it's a pretty offensive take on what Order is about. Coercion, really? As if Lawful Evil is the only kind of Lawful there is?

All Laws are coercive to some extent.

Dont do X or else you'll be punished with Y.

That sums up most laws right there.

[BillyBobShorton]

Note that, since you're your own ally, you can trigger Voice of Authority by targeting yourself with a spell.

Also note that the X Smite line of spells that Paladins get technically "target" the person that casts them.

Has that "ally also equals self" perspective been clarified/covered by sage advice? Honest question.

It kinda feels like calling yourself a co-worker, because technically you're there with yourself at work...

[nickl_2000]

Has that "ally also equals self" perspective been clarified/covered by sage advice? Honest question.

It kinda feels like calling yourself a co-worker, because technically you're there with yourself at work...

That's the co-worker I work best with at my job

[KorvinStarmast]

Note that, since you're your own ally, you can trigger Voice of Authority by targeting yourself with a spell. Maybe. A valid ruling would be that ally is only the other creatures (etc) fighting on your side. Then again, if you have a split personality due to the Schizophrenia madness ... sure.


Also note that the X Smite line of spells that Paladins get technically "target" the person that casts them. yeah.

I would like to see what tweaks people suggest for making the class closer to "ready for print" instead of "let's cheese the heck out of this!" (Yeah, I know, cheese can be both nutritious and fun :smallbiggrin: )

[Theodoxus]

I offered Order as an option last night for a new game where everyone is playing a cleric. No one picked it... I guess it's ready for print, as it's obviously not OP.

[Mister_Squinty]

I offered Order as an option last night for a new game where everyone is playing a cleric. No one picked it... I guess it's ready for print, as it's obviously not OP.

Or no one wants to be an ordained minister of the God of Bureaucrats. :smallsmile:

[Theodoxus]

Funnily enough, one guy pretty much said exactly that. "Huge fan of rules lawyering, not only in the meta, but the actual RP? Hard Pass."

I edited my post to reference the sarcasm I meant to relay.

With how I do multiclassing though, using it as a basis for power play is limited. Though maybe as a secondary class on an enchanter wizard... spell recycling starting at a minimum of 13th level wouldn't be horrible.

[A Fat Dragon]

Heh, imagine the irony of a Kobold Order Cleric.

“All if you will cower and beg befor m- Oh no, my channel Divinity isn’t helping! Please spare me, oh great BBEG! I-I was just kidding! Believe me! Just keep your eyes on me, and please don’t kill me! I’ll give you anything, ANYTHING!”

[8wGremlin]

Hex is an enchantment spell, and Warlocks have higher level spell slots.

A Cleric of Order (6), Warlock (3) and naturally use higher level slots to cast HEX, which will replenish a spell slot, and you get these back every short rest.

Hexblade has access to Wrathful Smite (which will trigger an extra attack)
Has access to the Puppet spell (UA Starter Spells) at 1st level cast it on ally, make them move, and get an attack!


Your gesture forces one humanoid you can see within range to make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the target must move up to its speed in a direction you choose. In addition, you can cause the target to drop whatever it is holding. This spell has no effect on a humanoid that is immune to being charmed.

Hell, a Order Cleric 1/Hexblade 1 can do that 2 x short rest!