Storing up Charnel Touch?

[Warchon]

So I'm playing a Dread Necromancer, and am thinking of suggesting to the Duskblade that he take a level in it too.
From the chatter and guides I've seen, it seems that while not explicitly called out as a free action that enhances a touch attack, there is a general consensus that Charnel Touch is effectively a free action that does not provoke.
I am wondering whether it can therefore be held on to, much like a standard touch spell, for use in a later round.
It seems obvious that you could not just stack them up and deal 600d8 damage after waiting an hour, but could I ready a Charnel Touch, and then discharge on a melee touch attack in the next round, then using iterative attacks from +6 BAB to deliver a second dose with THAT round's use of the ability?

[Troacctid]

Charnel Touch is a supernatural ability. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless otherwise noted.

You cannot hold the charge for it because it is not a touch spell.

[Warchon]

That would preclude the common assumption that it can be stacked with an actual touch spell in a single attack, yes?

[Troacctid]

That would preclude the common assumption that it can be stacked with an actual touch spell in a single attack, yes?
It cannot be stacked with such attacks. You might be thinking of the reserve feat, Sickening Grasp?

[Warchon]

Actually maybe not. If you cast and hold a touch spell, you could then use your Charnel Touch with it, since you're not dismissing the touch spell by casting anything, just has to be in that order.
Does that add up?

[Warchon]

Also I had not heard of Sickening Grasp, but that looks really sweet. I've been waffling on what to take for L6 feat and that might just be a perfect fit.

[BananaNomNom]

"At will, but no more than once per round, she can make a melee touch attack against a living foe" is essentially saying its a standard action, and how spells work is you need the action to cast a spell so you could not say hold a spells charge and release it at the same time as another.

[Warchon]

Touch spells specifically let you hold the charge for later rounds. Many of them even remain active if you miss your touch attack.

[Warchon]

PHB page 176

[Falontani]

Charnel Touch (Su): Negative energy flows through a dread necromancer's body, concentrating in her hands. At will, but no more than once per round, she can make a melee touch attack against a living foe that deals 1d8 points of damage, +1 per four class levels. This touch heals undead creatures, restoring 1 hit point per touch, +1 per four class levels. A dread necromancer can use the spectral hand spell to deliver this attack from a distance.

In its entirety word for word. italics for italics, bold for bold. Now below I will bolt sections I believe are relevant to the topic

Charnel Touch (Su): Negative energy flows through a dread necromancer's body, concentrating in her hands. At will, but no more than once per round, she can make a melee touch attack against a living foe that deals 1d8 points of damage, +1 per four class levels. This touch heals undead creatures, restoring 1 hit point per touch, +1 per four class levels. A dread necromancer can use the spectral hand spell to deliver this attack from a distance.

First off:

Supernatural: Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance. Supernatural abilities cannot be dispelled. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will, just like spell-like abilities. However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks. Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is 10 + 1/2 the creature’s HD + the creature’s ability modifier (usually Charisma).
However there are abilities that are constant use that are Su

Babble (Su): An allip constantly mutters and whines to itself, creating a hypnotic effect. All sane creatures within 60 feet of the allip must succeed on a DC 16 Will save or be affected as though by a hypnotism spell for 2d4 rounds. This is a sonic mind-affecting compulsion effect.
Creatures that successfully save cannot be affected by the same allip’s babble for 24 hours. The save DC is Charisma-based.
It does not say that an Allip can turn this ability off nor supress it. A house rule could be made however it seems clear that this ability is always on

Aura of Menace (Su): A righteous aura surrounds archons that fight or get angry. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of an archon must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects. The save DC varies with the type of archon, is Charisma-based, and includes a +2 racial bonus. Those who fail take a –2 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit the archon that generated the aura. A creature that has resisted or broken the effect cannot be affected again by the same archon’s aura for 24 hours.
An aura that can not be turned off

Death Gaze (Su): Death, range 30 feet, Fortitude DC 15 negates. Humanoids who die from this attack are transformed into bodaks 24 hours later. The save DC is Charisma-based. A third instance of abilities that do not turn off, but I'll get a few more different abiltiies

Ghoul Fever (Su): Disease—bite, Fortitude DC 12, incubation period 1 day, damage 1d3 Con and 1d3 Dex. The save DC is Charisma-based. The ghoul can't stop his disease from activating when he bites things. His bite delivers the Su but is itself not a Su. Meaning he used his standard action or full round action to attack and the ghoul fever activated on its own.

A lich without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses negative energy to deal 1d8+5 points of damage to living creatures; a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 lich’s HD + lich’s Cha modifier) halves the damage. A lich with natural weapons can use its touch attack or its natural weaponry, as it prefers. If it chooses the latter, it deals 1d8+5 points of extra damage on one natural weapon attack. Here we see the basis of Charnel Touch. Seems like a standard action to activate, wrong

any). If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack along with a touch as a natural secondary attack, provided it has a way to make that attack (either a free hand or a natural weapon that it can use as a secondary attack).
And a final quote for Lich

Paralyzing Touch (Su): Any living creature a lich hits with its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or be permanently paralyzed. Remove paralysis or any spell that can remove a curse can free the victim (see the bestow curse spell description, page 203 of the Player’s Handbook).
The effect cannot be dispelled. Anyone paralyzed by a lich seems dead, though a DC 20 Spot check or a DC 15 Heal check reveals that the victim is still alive..
Look a rider effect on touching someone that is a Su but definitely not activated as a standard action

I am tired of seeing a single quote always thrown around with so many EXCEPTIONS to the rule that don't call out anything. The rule is wrong. Yes activated Supernatural abilities are standard actions. But there are so many Supernatural Abilities that are always on that don't need activating. This is one of those abilities.

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Negative energy flows through the dread necromancer's body, lets me know that it is an always on ability

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At will but no more than once per round; so it has a recharge time like many other supernatural abilities (like breath weapons) but the recharge is 1 round. I believe this clause is in here so we dont do something silly like, Dread Necromancer 1, Totemist 2, Barbarian 1, etc and do full attack natural pounce with each claw gaining 1d8 and each punch gaining 1d8. You know, because a lich can't either.

[Troacctid]

Actually maybe not. If you cast and hold a touch spell, you could then use your Charnel Touch with it, since you're not dismissing the touch spell by casting anything, just has to be in that order.
Does that add up?
Oh, sure, yes, that would work if you did it in that order.


I am tired of seeing a single quote always thrown around with so many EXCEPTIONS to the rule that don't call out anything. The rule is wrong. Yes activated Supernatural abilities are standard actions. But there are so many Supernatural Abilities that are always on that don't need activating. This is one of those abilities.
Of course there are abilities that are part of another action and don't need to be activated. And they have text that indicates that. In the absence of such text, it's a standard action. Hence "unless otherwise noted."

In this case the Charnel Touch is described in the text as an attack of its own, not a rider on another touch attack. Compare it with Sickening Grasp: "As long as you have a necromancy spell of 3rd level or higher available to cast, any living creature you hit with a melee touch attack becomes sickened for a number of rounds equal to the level of the highest-level necromancy spell you have available to cast." Or with Touch of Golden Ice: "Any evil creature you touch with your bare hand, fist, or natural weapon is ravaged by golden ice (see Ravages and Afflictions in Chapter 3: Exalted Equipment for effects)." These feats affect anyone you touch with a melee touch attack; they don't call for you to make a special melee touch attack as part of the ability in order to get the effect.

[Crake]

Touch spells specifically let you hold the charge for later rounds. Many of them even remain active if you miss your touch attack.

Charnel touch is not a spell.


It cannot be stacked with such attacks. You might be thinking of the reserve feat, Sickening Grasp?

Why would charnel touch be incompatible with spells? You obviously cannot do both in the same round, but if you cast a touch spell the round before, and hold the charge in your hand, I see no reason why you could not use the charnel touch ability when discharging the touch spell.