Non-evil, non-good gods

[Huldaerus]

I'm working in a homebrew setting where gods are non-evil, non-good (but they can be lawful or chaotic). What changes in the rules may I have to do?

[Venger]

I'm working in a homebrew setting where gods are non-evil, non-good (but they can be lawful or chaotic). What changes in the rules may I have to do?

None, all your gods are some stripe of Neutral.

[Nifft]

I'm working in a homebrew setting where gods are non-evil, non-good (but they can be lawful or chaotic). What changes in the rules may I have to do?

Not rules changes -- you don't need to change anything to support a bunch of Neutral gods -- but you might want to take a look at some of the traditional divine servitor types (e.g. Angels / Archons / etc.) and decide how they fit into your cosmic scheme, or if they even exist.

[Calthropstu]

Not rules changes -- you don't need to change anything to support a bunch of Neutral gods -- but you might want to take a look at some of the traditional divine servitor types (e.g. Angels / Archons / etc.) and decide how they fit into your cosmic scheme, or if they even exist.

They can exist just fine. No reason it has to be gods defending the virtues of good or the temptations of evil. In fact, you only really need 3 gods to cover everyone since you can be up to 1 alignment step away. 3 neutral gods (ln,n,cn) can do fine by themselves. The planes of good and the planes of evil can be watched over by all 3 in tandem.

[Nifft]

They can exist just fine.

Yep, they could exist.

But if there's no force of Cosmic Good, then maybe there's no need for servitors of Cosmic Good.

So, these cosmic servitors of Good / Evil / etc. either exist, or they don't exist, and only Huldaerus is going to determine whether they do or not.

[Andor13]

It depends on how and why (and if) you're changing your Cosmology.

If this is the standard D&D cosmology, then Angels and Demons still exist, but this world is just not one that has drawn the attention of those powers.

If you're doing more of a Micheal Moorcock thing where the primary axis of conflict of Law vs Chaos (and neither of them is particularly "Good" from a human perspective) then you will want to alter your outer plane maps to reflect that reality, and probably get rid of Paladins, etc, or refluff them at least.

If you're trying to strip "Good" and "Evil" from your game in awareness of how little sense they make in a polytheistic universe then you also want to alter your outer planar cosmology, but you don't need to build in an axis of conflict. Just make/use the pantheons of your choice. If Loki and Thor fight a lot it's not because it's a Cosmic battle between Good-Evil or Law-Chaos but just that Loki is a trickster and Thor has no sense of humour.

[Nifft]

If Loki and Thor fight a lot it's not because it's a Cosmic battle between Good-Evil or Law-Chaos but just that Loki is a trickster and Thor has no sense of humour.

:durkon: "Are you calling my god a Thor loser?!"

[Thurbane]

The only things that pops out to me is that no deities will be likely to offer the Good or Evil domains, so unless Clerics of ideals exist in the campaign, the spells Holy Smite and Unholy Blight most likely won't exist.

This probably won't have much of an in game effect, though.

[Nifft]

the spells Holy Smite and Unholy Blight most likely won't exist.

This probably won't have much of an in game effect, though.

Those spells are ingredients for the Holy / Unholy weapon enhancements, so those won't exist either (or they'll have different prereqs).

[Venger]

I'm assuming you'll let people just pick whatever domains they want

[Yogibear41]

The Arcanis setting specifically removed the alignments from all its gods, have different followers of the same god the have vastly different alignments, although in alot of cases they have the same alignment on the lawful chaotic axis.

[Goaty14]

AFB, but IIRC, Paladins have to have a LG deity. Holy Avengers (CG paladin prestige) probably have to have a CG deity.

[Bohandas]

The biggest difference I can see id lack of the Good and Evil domains and consequent inability of anyone to make holy or unholy weapons. I'd advist appending to Holy Smite and Unholy Blight to the standard cleric spell list


AFB, but IIRC, Paladins have to have a LG deity. Holy Avengers (CG paladin prestige) probably have to have a CG deity.

I think they just have to be lawful good themselves. Their deity could easily be Pelor (NG) or Cuthbert (LG)

[Uncle Pine]

The only things that pops out to me is that no deities will be likely to offer the Good or Evil domains, so unless Clerics of ideals exist in the campaign, the spells Holy Smite and Unholy Blight most likely won't exist.

This probably won't have much of an in game effect, though.

I guess there could be a true Neutral deity with both the Good and Evil domain. Moreover, as you pointed out, Clerics don't necessarily need to serve a deity (or for what matters, for deities to exist) to get their powers: to them, belief is sufficient.

If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.



I'm working in a homebrew setting where gods are non-evil, non-good (but they can be lawful or chaotic). What changes in the rules may I have to do?
I think I would like to play in such a setting, as it opens up rather nifty roleplay situations. Will you be going with the interpretation that since gods didn't "invent" the ideas of Good and Evil, it was mortals who came up with them? If you decide to have a neutral deity with both the Good and Evil domains, would it be considered as defying the other gods' idea of cosmic balance? After all, to mantain balance by putting all your weight in the middle of a seesaw is wildly different from reaching the same end by putting two equal weights at opposite ends.

[thorr-kan]

Deities are above alignment. They can be worshiped by any one of any one alignment, though they may s still have aligned domains.

Eberron does it that way, so there's 3ED precedent. But it goes even further back to the Al-Qadim setting.

From the Land of Fate boxed set:
"The Great Gods are neither good nor evil, lawful nor chaotic. They are beyond such matters. Bravery can be found in the most noble faris and the most black-hearted assassin, and who is Hajama to turn his ear from either of them? Individual followers or churches may be good or evil, but the Great gods are above these quibbles. This sets them apart from common gods and heathen deities, who are usually lock-stepped into their believer's alignments."

No avatars!

[Nifft]

AFB, but IIRC, Paladins have to have a LG deity. Holy Avengers (CG paladin prestige) probably have to have a CG deity.

Nope.

Paladins don't need a deity at all.

A religious Paladin who wants to follow a god needs a god who is compatible with the Paladin's own LG restriction.

Wee Jas, for example, does have Paladins -- but these Paladins would probably not feel beholden to follow the orders of any random Cleric of Wee Jas, who might very well be Lawful Evil. In this case, the god is compatible, but the church isn't.

[Particle_Man]

You might want to decide what happens to the souls of mortals after they die. Would their afterlife be solely determined by the law-chaos axis of their alignments, so that LG, LN and LE people end up in the same place, different from CG, CN and CE people?

Interestingly, a paladin of an LN god could fall from paladin-hood and become an LE blackguard, while never once failing to be devoted to that same LN god.

Are you going to use Magic of Incarnum? They have interesting "alignment" magic and you could crib the law/chaos stuff. They also have a fun lawful prestige class, the Sapphire Hierophant.