What breaks if a PC is an aberration instead of a humanoid?

[PhoenixPhyre]

For a project I'm working on, I'm considering a feature that reads something like "Starting at level X, you count as an aberration instead of a humanoid" (along with some other, not relevant, features).

What does this change?

* Hold X spells require higher level variants (Hold Monster instead of Hold Person)
* Dominate X spells require higher level variants

Anything else?

[Akolyte01]

For a project I'm working on, I'm considering a feature that reads something like "Starting at level X, you count as an aberration instead of a humanoid" (along with some other, not relevant, features).

What does this change?

* Hold X spells require higher level variants (Hold Monster instead of Hold Person)
* Dominate X spells require higher level variants

Anything else?

Can't get married (http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Ceremony)any more :smalltongue:

[Aett_Thorn]

Can't get married (http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Ceremony)any more :smalltongue:

Can't come of age, either.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Can't get married (http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Ceremony)any more :smalltongue:


Can't come of age, either.

Darn. That ruins everything.

Thanks. Anything else? Are there monster abilities that only work against humanoids (or don't particularly work against aberrations)?

[Aett_Thorn]

Just running down through some wizard spells:

Charm Person can't affect you

You can be affected by Protection from Good and Evil

Crown of Madness can't affect you

Magic Jar can't affect you

etc.

Just a few spells out of the grand total, but they might mess up something here or there.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Just running down through some wizard spells:

Charm Person can't affect you

You can be affected by Protection from Good and Evil

Crown of Madness can't affect you

Magic Jar can't affect you

etc.

Just a few spells out of the grand total, but they might mess up something here or there.

That gives me a good idea--working through the SRD, searching for "humanoid" in spells:

* Calm Emotions
* Charm Person
* Create Food and Water (you're neither a humanoid or a steed...a bit of an edge case, to be sure)
* Animate Dead/Create Undead (your corpse can't be used for these spells under at least one reading)
* Dominate Person (as noted)
* Finger of Death (can't turn you into a zombie)
* Hold Person (as noted)
* Magic Jar (as you noted)
* Reincarnate (ouch, but the other raise dead-type spells work)
* Simulacrum (beasts or humanoids only)

Looking for "aberration":
* Detect Evil and Good pings on you
* Protection from Evil and Good works against you
* Cloaker's Moan can't fear you

That seems to be everything from the SRD.

[MaxWilson]

Just running down through some wizard spells:

Charm Person can't affect you

You can be affected by Protection from Good and Evil

Crown of Madness can't affect you

Magic Jar can't affect you

etc.

Just a few spells out of the grand total, but they might mess up something here or there.

Also Reincarnate, Calm Emotions, and the zombie part of Finger of Death.

[JackPhoenix]

You can't be turned into a zombie or skeleton through Animate Dead.

[Naanomi]

Some rangers may have a harder time knowing information about you, while others may have an easier time... at very high levels this will effect combat bonuses as well

[PhoenixPhyre]

Some rangers may have a harder time knowing information about you, while others may have an easier time... at very high levels this will effect combat bonuses as well

Does this really affect PCs though? Since most NPCs don't have the same class features and PvP is (relatively rare)?

Still something to keep in mind.

[Naanomi]

Does this really affect PCs though? Since most NPCs don't have the same class features and PvP is (relatively rare)?

Still something to keep in mind.
Not unless PvP breaks out for some reason (dominated ally?)

[OvisCaedo]

I suppose they'd be immune to a vampire's charm... I wonder just how many monster abilities HAVE humanoid targeting restrictions? I wouldn't imagine it's actually very many of them.

[Grod_The_Giant]

So, basically, a bunch of niche cases. Would be fine as a special feature, methinks. Most of the problems you got in 3.5 with weird-typed PCs had to do with intended-for-monsters rules that no longer exist.

[RSP]

If it helps in your weighing the impact, a 3rd level Wizard can get these same benefits using Nystul's Magic Aura ("You choose a creature type and other spells and magical effects treat the target as if it were a creature of that type"), so I don't think it'll be too broken.

[PhoenixPhyre]

So, basically, a bunch of niche cases. Would be fine as a special feature, methinks. Most of the problems you got in 3.5 with weird-typed PCs had to do with intended-for-monsters rules that no longer exist.

Good. That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure. It's almost an entirely ribbon feature--the meat of that one is immunity to poison and unwilling shapeshifting (so offensive polymorph). Truth be told, I was only wary because I've read lots of people trying to get other creature types in 3.5 and having strange interactions.


If it helps in your weighing the impact, a 3rd level Wizard can get these same benefits using Nystul's Magic Aura ("You choose a creature type and other spells and magical effects treat the target as if it were a creature of that type"), so I don't think it'll be too broken.

Good to know. Yeah, I'm not worried about it at this point.

Thanks everyone!

[OvisCaedo]

If it helps in your weighing the impact, a 3rd level Wizard can get these same benefits using Nystul's Magic Aura ("You choose a creature type and other spells and magical effects treat the target as if it were a creature of that type"), so I don't think it'll be too broken.

It's written kind of poorly in the second half, but the beginning of that section suggests that it's only supposed to have this effect on "detection" type spells and effects. I guess you could argue the fact that it doesn't repeat this specification could mean it's not actually relevant?

edit: it's also a 2nd level spell, though that doesn't really matter much

[RSP]

It's written kind of poorly in the second half, but the beginning of that section suggests that it's only supposed to have this effect on "detection" type spells and effects. I guess you could argue the fact that it doesn't repeat this specification could mean it's not actually relevant?

edit: it's also a 2nd level spell, though that doesn't really matter much

I'll agree it's a horribly written spell.

[Asmotherion]

Can't get married (http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Ceremony)any more :smalltongue:

Not profiting from Marriage and not being able to getting married are two completelly different things. Ask the average 50 Year old person, and they might as well consider themselves Aberations by this standard :P

On the other hand, this gives a very diferent perspective on Goldigers and Gigolos respectively. Those humanoids are hardcore optimisers :P

[Greywander]

You can't be turned into a zombie or skeleton through Animate Dead.
So how does one create a zombie beholder then?

[PhoenixPhyre]

So how does one create a zombie beholder then?

Not through animate dead. Probably through a major ritual or demonic action. That's a key thing--the spells in the book aren't all the spells out there. They're a small subset that's balanced for routine use.

[JackPhoenix]

So how does one create a zombie beholder then?

"As a beholder ages, it spends more and more time worrying about its mortality. The dreams of such a death-fearing beholder might reach into strange corners of reality and imagine circumstances in which the creature can live on after death."

-Volo's Guide to Monsters

Granted, that's Death Tyrant, not zombie, but the process may be similar. Otherwise, see PhoenixPhyre.

[PhoenixPhyre]

"As a beholder ages, it spends more and more time worrying about its mortality. The dreams of such a death-fearing beholder might reach into strange corners of reality and imagine circumstances in which the creature can live on after death."

-Volo's Guide to Monsters

Granted, that's Death Tyrant, not zombie, but the process may be similar. Otherwise, see PhoenixPhyre.

Not to mention the cases of spontaneous zombification due to ambient necromantic energy.