How to put up a Big Flag saying "HIT Me. I'm the Tank."?

[Edgerunner]

I really don't want to start this thread with a description of Race and Class.

Lets just say it's a general Tutorial about how to grab Aggro in your 5E setting.

So how does one set out an 'Idea' that you are the 1st guy that should be hit Without letting them know you are Too Difficult to hit???

[Naanomi]

Depends on how intelligent (and other favors) the opponents are; looking threatening, being the closest target, threatening deadly attacks of opportunity... all may work on some targets. A few classes offer abilities to incentivize attacking you instead of others (often by giving enemies disadvantage if they attack others, but other things exist as well)

Others need ways to stop movement (prone, grapple) or utilize magical (compelled duel) or extraordinary (Swashbuckler subclass abilities) to ‘taunt’ in the more classic sense

[JoeJ]

I really don't want to start this thread with a description of Race and Class.

Lets just say it's a general Tutorial about how to grab Aggro in your 5E setting.

So how does one set out an 'Idea' that you are the 1st guy that should be hit Without letting them know you are Too Difficult to hit???

Hide in the back of the party and cast spells.

[Kane0]

You need to get the attention of the enemy on both a rational and emotional level.

For the former you want to be a tactical priority. Don't just be a speed bump, be a threat. Be the first thing they see, the one always in between them and their objective, the one handing out the punishment and threaten even more for daring ignore you.

For the latter half, demand their undivided attention. Boast, taunt, leave 'openings', kill off their support and ruin their carefully laid plans. Then rub it in their face.

[Edgerunner]

A few classes offer abilities to incentivize attacking you instead of others (often by giving enemies disadvantage if they attack others, but other things exist as well)

Others need ways to stop movement (prone, grapple) or utilize magical (compelled duel) or extraordinary (Swashbuckler subclass abilities) to ‘taunt’ in the more classic sense

So running up to them and yelling "You Want It yea bastards..... Come and get It." may work for the first few LvLs but.... what then?

[Edgerunner]

You need to get the attention of the enemy on both a rational and emotional level.

For the former you want to be a tactical priority. Don't just be a speed bump, be a threat. Be the first thing they see, the one always in between them and their objective, the one handing out the punishment and threaten even more for daring ignore you.

For the latter half, demand their undivided attention. Boast, taunt, leave 'openings', kill off their support and ruin their carefully laid plans. Then rub it in their face.

I Like you Dude LOL.

Gimme More specific Ideas

[Lord8Ball]

Take the mage initiate feat. For your cantrips get minor illusion and booming blade and for your first level spell take disguise self. Once you cast it to make it that you look like an unimposing peasant wearing normal clothes. From there you can go crazy with minor illusion and makeup whatever taunts you want to troll the enemy and keep them on you. Either that or actually wear a flag that says hit me.

[Edgerunner]

Take the mage initiate feat. For your cantrips get minor illusion and booming blade and for your first level spell take disguise self. Once you cast it make it that you look like an unimposing peasant wearing normal clothes. From there you can go crazy with minor illusion and makeup whatever taunts you want to troll the enemy and keep them on you.

Lets just say I wanna be a normal Adventurer without all the Hocus Pocus.

Then what?

[Kane0]

- Positioning. You want them to come to you, and you want to get op attacks for avoiding or moving away form you. Rogue or monk levels, or the Mobile feat plus any boost to your speed allow you to move around the battlefield freely in order to set yourself up and reposition as needed.
- Knock targets prone. This uses half their movement to get up, gives you advantage to hit them and them disadvantage on attacks if they stay down
- Grapple targets and drag them around. Combine this with the previous two points to not just encourage enemies to be in certain locations, but to put them there yourself.
- Mechanical benefits like the Sentinel and Polearm Mastery feats or that grant you additional reaction attacks for enemies moving near you, as well as things like Ray of Frost which slow them down.
- Practice your RP. A well placed insult can turn all the heads in the room and at the table.

Others will have more i'm sure.

[Lord8Ball]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeEbtiruH2Q

[AvatarVecna]

I really don't want to start this thread with a description of Race and Class.

Lets just say it's a general Tutorial about how to grab Aggro in your 5E setting.

So how does one set out an 'Idea' that you are the 1st guy that should be hit Without letting them know you are Too Difficult to hit???

Your thread title indicates the problem with this mentality. Your job as tank is to make the enemy attack you instead of a better target, and loudly proclaiming that you're the tank (be it through words, actions, or appearance) means you've already failed at your job. The enemy's job (if they're going about things efficiently) is to decrease the party's DPR as quickly as possible, and that means they have to compare how much damage they think each member can do vs how quickly they can take each member out of the combat.

Let us suppose there are four people in the party, and one monster:
Fighter (HP 160, DPR 40)
Wizard (HP 40, DPR 30)
Cleric (HP 120, DPR 10)
Rogue (HP 80, DPR 20)
Monster (HP 500, DPR 40

If the monster spreads its DPR evenly (such that all party members die the same turn), it would kill the party at the end of round 10. But the party would focus their DPR on the monster, and would kill it by the end of round 5. Clearly, the monster needs to focus fire. First, here's a scenario where the monster targets people in order of DPR (highest to lowest): Fighter is killed in four rounds, reducing party DPR to 60 (monster has taken 400 total); Wizard is killed in one round, reducing party DPR to 30 (monster has taken 460 total); Rogue is taken down in two rounds, reducing party DPR to 10 (monster has taken 490 total); Cleric is taken down in three rounds, reducing party DPR to 0 (monster has taken 520).

Second, here's a scenario where the monster targets people in order of HP (highest to lowest): Fighter is killed in four rounds, reducing party DPR to 60 (monster has taken 400 total); Cleric is killed in three rounds, reducing party DPR to 50 (monster has taken 580); Rogue is killed in two rounds, reducing party DPR to 30 (monster has taken 680); Wizard is killed in one round, reducing party DPR to 0 (monster has taken 710).

Third, here's a scenario where the monster targets people in order of HP (lowest to highest): Wizard is killed in one round, reducing party DPR to 70 (monster has taken 100); Rogue is killed in two rounds, reducing party DPR to 50 (monster has taken 240); Cleric is killed in three rounds, reducing party DPR to 40 (monster has taken 390); Fighter is killed in four rounds, reducing party DPR to 0 (monster has taken 550).

Fourth, here's a scenario where the monster targets people in order of DPR-to-HP ratio (highest to lowest): Wizard is killed in one round, reducing party DPR to 70 (monster has taken 100); Fighter is killed in four rounds, reducing party DPR to 30 (monster has taken 380); Rogue is killed in two rounds, reducing party DPR to 10 (monster has taken 440); Cleric is killed in three rounds, reducing party DPR to 0 (monster has taken 470).

And to be sure, let's reverse the Fighter and Rogue in scenario 3 (since their ratio is identical): Wizard is killed in one round, reducing party DPR to 70 (monster has taken 100); Rogue is killed in two rounds, reducing party DPR to 50 (monster has taken 240); Warrior is killed in four rounds, reducing party DPR to 10 (monster has taken 440); Cleric is killed in three rounds, reducing party DPR to 0 (monster has taken 470).

400 HP/100 DPR vs 500 HP/40 DPR shouldn't be much of a fight, but because the monster can selectively target, it can eek out a victory where it doesn't deserve one by any means, and it does so not by targeting the most dangerous people first, nor by targeting the toughest first, nor by targeting the weakest first, but by comparing how quickly it can reduce DPR.

This means that, to successfully tank, you either need to not give the monster a choice in who to target, or you need to appear to be the target he's wanting while actually being the last person he wants to target. Generally speaking, the monster does best in the above scenario by targeting the wizard (glass cannon) first, and the cleric (tank) last. Being a tank that gives the enemy little choice in who they target can be difficult, so let's focus on tricking them: if the monster gets to choose who to target based on its observations, your goal as tank is to appear as if you are a glass cannon, and the glass cannons need to appear as tanks. Basic tips: avoid armor and high-Str characters; either of these can be a highly-visible sign that you're tougher than you seem (any character needs Con, but the ones that need Str are the classes intended as tanks). To that end, here are some tanking suggestions:
Barbarian is fantastic at tanking: high AC, high HP, enough damage that ignoring you is a mistake, and subclass gives you either resistance to all damage while raging (Bear Totem) or abilities that incentivize the enemy to attack you and reduces damage your allies take (Spirit Guardian). No surprise here, Barbarian is an excellent tank.
College Of Swords Bard looks like a Swashbuckler (glass cannon), but when built right can be maddeningly difficult to hit, can be surprisingly tough to take down, and can still support his allies while drawing moustaches on your face.
Moon Druid can turn into animals (which seems threatening, but are almost exclusively tanky creatures) which adds a great deal to their HP; the right spell support before changing can make them even tougher, and they'll draw attention away from the real damage dealers.
Dex Fighter (whether you go duelist or archer) is a gigantic source of damage that, by virtue of being a fighter, is going to be hard to hit and harder to kill. Their extra feats mean they can also invest more in defensive abilities, leaving offense to other members of the party (although really, Fighter should probably just be the one killing things).
Monks have high AC, decent HP, bonus action dodge/disengage, reaction no-selling ranged attacks, evasion, slow fall, self-healing, great speed, and (eventually) proficiency in all saves. A monk that's focused on defense will waste your time, while a monk focused on offense will tear a hole through enemies, and Ki lets them go from one to the other quickly. For extra defensive fun, go Drunken Master.
Dex Paladin will go around in light armor with decent AC, high HP, Cha to all saves, self-healing/buffing, and auras that protect nearby allies.
Bladesingers are wizard (glass cannon) that look like swashbucklers (glass cannon), but are secretly one of the tankiest characters in the game. Decent Dex/Con/Int will see this character be virtually untouchable when their song is active, and even if you manage to hit them, they'll be a lot tougher than any wizard has any right to be. Spells are support for their gishing, but the enemy won't know that; they'll see a spellcasting swashbuckler and close in for the kill.

[Kane0]

You forgot Rogues. No armor, SAD so can improve Con, super mobile, extra ASI, tough to catch with Dex saves, reaction to halve damage taken from attacks, can expertise in athletics, has a subclass that doesn't even need help to sneak attack you, etc...

[AvatarVecna]

You forgot Rogues. No armor, SAD so can improve Con, super mobile, extra ASI, tough to catch with Dex saves, reaction to halve damage taken from attacks, can expertise in athletics, has a subclass that doesn't even need help to sneak attack you, etc...

And eventually gets Wis save proficiency too. Yeah, Rogue can be pretty tanky when it puts its mind to it, so I probably should've included it in the list for the same reasons as monk: just because it can play glass cannon doesn't mean it can't be awful to try and kill.

[bid]

Lets just say it's a general Tutorial about how to grab Aggro in your 5E setting.

So how does one set out an 'Idea' that you are the 1st guy that should be hit Without letting them know you are Too Difficult to hit???
There's no aggro in 5e.
Going for the sessile chunk of rock is the best way to be ignored.
You have to be such a pain that they cannot ignore you.

Attack of opportunity
They zerg past you, you get one attack. Is that extra damage painful enough? Did you use sentinel to stop someone from passing through?

Moar damage
Did you use shield master or GWM/PAM to do an excessive amount of damage? Is that caster piddling away with an at-will cantrip or does it have juice for another big one?

DM common sense
Not all creatures are tactical genuises. Maybe you can succeed an animal handling ability check or fluff around some psychological roleplay.


I think you need a huge suspension of disbelief to make tanking work. You have to aim for the roleplay story rather than the tactical simulation.

[Naanomi]

Depends so much on what you are fighting... golems and Undead require different tank tactics than devils, or drow, or animal packs... no centralized mechanic (excepting the very few actual ‘mechanical taunts’) is going to ensure tanking in every scenerio

[Edgerunner]

Your thread title indicates the problem with this mentality. Your job as tank is to make the enemy attack you instead of a better target, and loudly proclaiming that you're the tank (be it through words, actions, or appearance) means you've already failed at your job.[/list]

OMG.
I suck.
How will I Ever live down the Shame

[AvatarVecna]

OMG.
I suck.
How will I Ever live down the Shame

Lol, okay maybe that was a bit harsh in hindsight. Was more just venting my reaction at seeing the thread title because my immediate thought at seeing that quote (presumably spoken from tank to monster) is for the monster to reply "Well when you put it that way, how 'bout I attack literally anybody else?"

[Asmotherion]

Lets just say I wanna be a normal Adventurer without all the Hocus Pocus.

Then what?

Avada Kedavra. :P If the Wizards were living in the Harry Potter Universe, they would probably be Death Eaters, or at least, their supporters in the Ministry of Magic. "Muggles deserve to get hit and die", and if you don't have any magic in D&D, you'll end up dead eventually, since you miss a lot of awesome magical effects that can protect you from... well magic.

The most straight forward (and unfair) is how a non caster, from level one, has no ability to defend from Magic Missile, which will deliver a potentially Lethal blow to a level 1 character, wile a Mage can just use Shield. And that's just the begining.

That said, the compensation is, no Adventurer is actually really mundane. Even the Classes who have no spellcasting, have some other, more "subtle" forms of "magic". Having a level in a Class means you are cut above the "commoners", wile being a "commoner", a normal person, means being an NPC CR0 Humanoid with no class levels.

The Barbarian has a Primal form of "Magic" that he channels through Rage for example. Wile it is not exactly put like that, it is there in the context, in that it is a limited ability, a self buff that allows him to become past human(oid) for a limited amount of time... Like some kind of Transmutation.

Monks learn, through Inner Peace to move on the plane faster, like having a permanent (yet limited) Haste Effect on them. They learn to use it more optimally through Ki.

Rogues have a subtle connection to Shadows and Magic. They eventually learn to be so skilled at things, that you could argue their skill is "magical indeed".

And finally, fighters have the ability to touch a subtle force Between that of the Barbarian's and the Monk's, through their willpower to win a fight. And it's just as magical.

PS: Don't take any of this as cannon, more as my personal view and brainstorming.

[LudicSavant]

Remember:
The poor tank says "It's the DM's decision to attack me. If he doesn't, that's just bad luck."
The effective tank says "The enemy ignores me at their own peril. If they do so, they will lose."

The latter is why tanking is a viable role in many competitive videogames, where you play against real people, playing to win, and choosing their targets based on tactical, mechanical considerations. And the tanks still manage to hold the aggro in these games, without the benefit of DM mercy or mind controlling taunt mechanics. Like these games, D&D provides a number of tools for tank players to hold the aggro of a rational foe. There are numerous possibilities, but here are a few examples of the ways you can demand the attention of an intelligent, human enemy who knows you're a tank and isn't just falling for a taunt.

- Your presence makes allies more difficult to hurt, rather than just you being difficult to hurt. For example, an Ancients Paladin standing in the middle of their party might give a massive +5+1d4 to all saves and have damage from spells for everyone present, as well as +1d4 to hit, disadvantage on attacks against people standing near them, or stopping the movement of melee foes who would try to reach their allies at all, removing them from the list of potential targets entirely. On top of that, if somebody else goes down before them, they can heal them back up. Essentially, the enemy has to deal with this guy in order to make harm stick to their allies.

- You project threat in your own right. Essentially, a tank that will kill you if ignored is a lot more likely to get attacked that one who, well, won't. Having important abilities that can be interrupted by attacking you (such as Concentration) can also be an example of this. Often this is only part of the equation (after all, the glass cannon tends to hit harder than the tank), but it's an important part nonetheless. The typical tank also tends to be able to leverage extra threat due to the fact that they can afford to position themselves more aggressively than squishier folks.

- You punish or prevent enemy actions that threaten your teammates. One example of this would be Booming Blade, oft cited as a great tanking ability. It doesn't make you tankier in the sense of raising your hp or AC... instead it makes you a more effective tank because enemies who try to engage with someone instead of you get punished for doing so. Someone might think twice about walking away from your character if they are going to eat extra damage from your attack, and provoke an OA, *and then proc Booming Blade again,* all before moving all of 5 feet from you... especially when there are Booming Blade-based builds that can just about one-shot many monsters who try to do this. Others involve interrupting enemy Concentration, counterspelling, bodyblocking, debuffing, all kinds of things.

The above bullet points can take many different forms. It can be a Barbarian knocking someone down, grappling them, and dragging them into the middle of hazards (be they environmental, created by the party, or even created by the enemy). It can be a melee Warlock blinding and cursing the enemy. It can be a Cleric tank with Spirit Guardians slowing the enemy's movement and taking OAs on anyone who tries to leave... and simply removing adverse effects from anyone who gets attacked instead of them. It can be the aforementioned Paladin boosting everyone's defenses with aura, spells, and style... not to mention projecting threat via smite burst damage potential. It can be an Abjurer frontline wizard (yes, there are good Wizard tank builds in 5e) extending their ward to make anyone potentially have fighter-like hp, or throwing up walls or laying down CC effects to defend their allies. It can be a Fighter with Sentinel and Polearm Master who will halt anyone who tries to pass them, or Action Surge burst down the enemy's own glass cannon. Or it could be simply stunning or paralyzing an enemy so that they can't just plain don't get their action. Or any of a host of other options.

What these options all have in common, though, is that they work even if the enemy tries to ignore them and go for the squishies. The player doesn't throw up their hands and say "Oh, darn, if only the DM would target me." They instead make hurting their allies a generally harder goal to accomplish, even if they just decide to beeline towards the back.

[MrStabby]

Generally speaking the best way to seize attention is to start casting high level spells.

The challenge is then to survive the attention. I think every class that can progress their casting gets some. Mage armour, mirror image, armour of agathys, blur... Control spells help relieve the pressure.

[. Shadowblade .]

you just need to tell those guys this: :smallbiggrin:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdhPB2Ow6p4

[Spore]

On a tactical level, have the casters spend a significant amount of spells on you. Who is going to kill the casters now that they have already done their job? You are killing the bathrobe wearing dude in the back when you have a juggernaut romping through your lines.

It is EVERYONE's job to make the frontline look more attractive to attack. Either be a high value target (i.e. disable the buffed guy), or have the squishies cast magical defenses (chopping a stone skinned wizard is suddenly not so interesting anymore), use subterfuge (the rogue is hidden but the Paladin is in plain sight). Have the tank actually debuff the enemy and break morale (this guy is killing us, bumrush him). Typically you swarm the guy who can dish out one huge attack per turn with several dozen minions anyway. But they have to take turns too. It's just polite.

[Unoriginal]

Waving an obviously magical weapon is going to make you a prime target for many opponents.

[Zanthy1]

Flags typically need some form of stanchion support, or if you have prep time dig a deep enough hole that the flag can stick in, making it easier to keep it aloft during combat. In Feudal Japan the were able to attach smaller flags onto the equipment of soldiers, so you could do that as well. Such as a full plate that has a flag holder on it.

[JackPhoenix]

The most straight forward (and unfair) is how a non caster, from level one, has no ability to defend from Magic Missile, which will deliver a potentially Lethal blow to a level 1 character, wile a Mage can just use Shield. And that's just the begining.

You mean like the inability to just break the wizard's LoS by standing behind solid object, or inability to stab the wizard before he gets to use the spell, or inability to shoot him with a longbow from way beyond Magic Missile's range, or inability to have enough HP to just survive the damage and *then* stab the wizard?

[Unoriginal]

Avada Kedavra. :P If the Wizards were living in the Harry Potter Universe, they would probably be Death Eaters, or at least, their supporters in the Ministry of Magic. "Muggles deserve to get hit and die", and if you don't have any magic in D&D, you'll end up dead eventually, since you miss a lot of awesome magical effects that can protect you from... well magic.

That's ridiculous.



The most straight forward (and unfair) is how a non caster, from level one, has no ability to defend from Magic Missile, which will deliver a potentially Lethal blow to a level 1 character, wile a Mage can just use Shield. And that's just the begining.


Now you've upgraded from ridiculous to straight up nonsensical sentences.

Even if you want to go PvP, which is not of any weight in the caster/martial supposed power difference, at lvl 1 a Magic Missile would need to make more than its average damage to to kill a Fighter or a Barbarian who has 10 in CON. Meanwhile, even if the Wizard or Sorcerer cast Shield, the Fighter or Barbarian still is likely to have around 50% chances to end them with any of their attack. The Wizard/Sorcerer needs to spend spell slots to do what the Fighter/Barbarian can do without spending ressources.

In 5e, PvP always come down to who wins the initiative, or at least who's able to inflict damage twice before their opponent can do the same.

[. Shadowblade .]

Killing many enemies at once really helps a lot. Last session my paladin roasted 3 soldiers and their warhound with Burning Hands spell (cast at max dmg), killing them instantly. When the rest of soldiers saw such horrible death of their fellows, DM told me they started to hate the paladin and group of them charged her. Only one of them reached her position and she cut him into halves with single strike of her longsword. The rest of attackers was cut down by the rest of party.

[KorvinStarmast]

Lets just say it's a general Tutorial about how to grab Aggro in your 5E setting.

So how does one set out an 'Idea' that you are the 1st guy that should be hit Without letting them know you are Too Difficult to hit??? Play Cavalier Fighter from XGTE. Stack AC, and possibly choose the defensive fighting style, though I'd consider the protection style depending on the feats you choose and your party make up.

[HolyAvenger7]

An Oath of the Crown Paladin is designed for this with Champion Challenge as your channel divinity and spells starting out with Command and Compel duel at level 3 it appears a natural fit.

But to avoid race and class establish yourself as the leader to appear the one needing to be immediately eliminated, ala "Kill the officers first!"

[Naanomi]

An Oath of the Crown Paladin is designed for this with Champion Challenge as your channel divinity and spells starting out with Command and Compel duel at level 3 it appears a natural fit.
Oath of Crown and Swashbuckler both have ‘you have to attack me!’ Mechanics

Cavalier has good ‘you can’t get away/past me’ mechanics

Ancestral Guardian has reasonable ‘attacking people instead of me is a waste of your time’ abilities

[DevilMcam]

I mosty agreed with a lot of stuff on here,
I am not sure that using a reach weapon is good for tanking. It actually gives your ennemy more space to move without provoking Oportunity attcks (they don't provoke them for moving withing you reach, just leaving (or entering with apropriate feat)).
Barbarian "reckless attack" is also a pretty good "attack me" button but we shall not discuss class here.

The main Idea to draw aggro is : be where it will piss ennemies, hit where it hurts. And be the best target.
Don't seem like the best one (smart ones will figure soon enough). Be the best one, mostly make sure that if they do not attack you it will cost them.

[smcmike]

In a very large number of fights, the answer is actually pretty simple: positioning. If you are bursting into a room, you tank by bursting into the room first. If you are in an area with opportunities for cover, you can often tank by being the party member who isn’t hiding behind cover. Grabbing and shoving enemies helps.

[Sigreid]

Find a DM that understands the murder machine in front of me is a more imminent threat than that guy in the back who may decide you're not worth his best tricks.

[Naanomi]

Find a DM that understands the murder machine in front of me is a more imminent threat than that guy in the back who may decide you're not worth his best tricks.
Do players ever see it that way in their strategizing?

[Sigreid]

I do. Can't speak for others.

[Unoriginal]

OP, I don't know if people mentioned it already, but:

The Cavalier subclass is very good at tanking. It can penalize foes who try to ignore the knight.



Find a DM that understands the murder machine in front of me is a more imminent threat than that guy in the back who may decide you're not worth his best tricks.

The murder machine is the bigger threat... when they're in front of you. Before the melee combatants make contact, only fools would ignore the mages and other ranged attackers.

[DnDegenerates]

Bright Yellow Armor with Red Targets painted all over it.

A shield with gold coins glued to it.

Sacks with Money Signs/coins painted onto them in goldflake paint.

A banner hanging above your head with either a giant arrow pointing down to you, or an obscene hand gesture painted upon it.

[Sigreid]

OP, I don't know if people mentioned it already, but:

The Cavalier subclass is very good at tanking. It can penalize foes who try to ignore the knight.




The murder machine is the bigger threat... when they're in front of you. Before the melee combatants make contact, only fools would ignore the mages and other ranged attackers.

When they know it's an active mage, sure. I'd dispute that they should always know who the caster is until the first spell is cast or the rematch.

[The Jack]

Get the high ground
Your position should be an advantage to you and limit the options of your opponents. Always try to shape the battlefield to favour you.

Psycho warfare.
Mess up the enemy more than necessary. Everyone else should be effecient killers, but you should deliver agony and shame so that those angry focus on you.

feign weakness or strength
Depends on what you're facing, really.

Literally paint targets on yourself
it'd be funny.

[MaxWilson]

I really don't want to start this thread with a description of Race and Class.

Lets just say it's a general Tutorial about how to grab Aggro in your 5E setting.

So how does one set out an 'Idea' that you are the 1st guy that should be hit Without letting them know you are Too Difficult to hit???

First of all, your job is not to get hit. It is to ensure that no one else gets hit. If you can prevent ANYONE from getting hit, you're doing your job just fine.

Secondly, your job description presupposes that it is a MISTAKE for enemies to attack you. So you're basically asking how to force enemies into making mistakes. One avenue is psychological: use illusions (e.g. Disguise Self to look like a shrimpy wizard) or threaten opportunity attacks or try to look like you're a bigger threat than you actually are in hopes that the enemy will mistakenly prioritize taking you down. (If it's NOT a mistake to target you because your offense-to-defense ratio really is better than anyone else on the team--if you are a glass cannon--then you actually want to AVOID being targeted and let the other guys tank for you as long as possible, in order to maximize your group's chances of surviving the fight.)

A second avenue is to remove the enemy's choice completely. 5E has a number of ways to do this, from spells like Wall of Force and Compelled Duel to simple grappling of (one or two targets) or standing in the chokepoint between enemies and your buddies, like Horatio at the bridge, or from killing the enemy so fast they have no time to do anything at all.

It is not always possible to remove the enemy's choice completely, but it is always preferable when it is possible at a reasonable cost. Otherwise you risk the enemy getting smart and ignoring your illusions/opportunity attacks/damage and going straight for the vulnerable targets, which could be a wizard maintaining a Polymorph spell (tactically important) or a princess you're escorting to a peace conference (strategically important).

TL;DR those who say offensive damage output to look threatening is key to tanking are partially right, but only if enemies are stupid and shortsighted. And if they are stupid and shortsighted, a number of other avenues will work too. (E.g. Sentinel feat and Dodge to eke out your HP.) If the enemy is smart or even just unpredictable (e.g. enemy who goes berserk from fear and charges your back line to get away from the frontline tank) you will need a backup plan.

[pdegan2814]

Generally speaking, I use a simple strategy for drawing aggro.

1) Be a strong enough offensive threat that they can't afford to let you keep attacking for long. Defensive strength is obviously important because you plan to take hits instead of your allies, but if you don't pose enough of a threat they'll simply ignore you.
2) Have enough battlefield presence that they can't avoid you. This means positioning yourself well, feats like Polearm Master and Sentinel that enhance your control of the area around you, good movement speed so you can get to where the enemies are, etc.

Basically, my version of the "HIT ME. I'm the Tank." sign is more like "HIT me, cuz if you don't then I'm gonna eff you up" :)

[Sigreid]

Get the high ground
Your position should be an advantage to you and limit the options of your opponents. Always try to shape the battlefield to favour you.

Psycho warfare.
Mess up the enemy more than necessary. Everyone else should be effecient killers, but you should deliver agony and shame so that those angry focus on you.

feign weakness or strength
Depends on what you're facing, really.

Literally paint targets on yourself
it'd be funny.

In the SCA decades ago there was a guy that had a happy face on his shield. Everyone wanted a shot at that guy.

[alchahest]

Reckless attack every turn to hit those big GWM hits AND give the enemy advantage vs you.



just make sure you've got Con maxed so you have the HP to tank it all. and don't provoke psychic baddies.

[GreyBlack]

Talk trash to the mobs. Say really insulting things to them and generally make yourself look like the biggest threat.

Use Taunt, as it were.

[DeShurland]

Surely you just go "I'm the Tank" and literally put yourself in the opponents face?

[Sahe]

If my first adventure as a Tiefling Barb is anything to go by.

Be the Vanguard and go in first. Obviously not as effective against smarter enemies who may not be as impressed by the immediate threat of the large Barbarian heading right for them.

As I was Tiefling I had the Thamaturgy cantrip and having a booming voice three times as loud as normal (especially in a cave) is bound to get you some attention.

Just shove yourself into an enemies face.

[Knaight]

Choke points, choke points, choke points. One of the downsides of the 5e combat system (most grid combat really, but especially anything using an opportunity attack model instead of a zone of control model) is that it can be weirdly easy to get past someone who doesn't want you getting past them because of the way they're static on your turn. You want that option closed.

Attacks of opportunity at least partially close it - that's a 3 square wide blocking area for anything that can't just take the hit, and even if they can it's still a disincentive. Getting around that extended area can bleed movement, and getting either up in opponents faces or a bit in front of allies protected is generally useful.

Then there's terrain. Dungeons and Dragons tends to involve a fair amount of, well, dungeons, and that means cramped spaces. With just one blocking wall that 3 square wide area can require a lot of maneuvering to get around, particularly for foes near the wall. Better yet, against larger foes your small square, well placed, can require a lot of movement to get past - up against a 4x4 foe, you can leave a 3 wide gap to the wall, and still force them to go around.

The best situation though is a proper corridor fight. Nothing says "hit me, I'm the tank." quite like ranged cover for everyone behind you and no melee access at all.

[HolyAvenger7]

Bright Yellow Armor with Red Targets painted all over it.

A shield with gold coins glued to it.

Sacks with Money Signs/coins painted onto them in goldflake paint.

A banner hanging above your head with either a giant arrow pointing down to you, or an obscene hand gesture painted upon it.

Shouldn't his be in blue? :elan:

[brainface]

Literally paint targets on yourself
it'd be funny.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=397588&type=card

[Sception]

I prefer less psychological, more mechanically grounded tanking methods that directly prevent opponents from attacking others via movement restrictions or punish them for doing so via reactive damage. Grappling; shoving prone; strong opportunity attacks; feats like Polearm Master, Shield Master, Warcaster (when combined with the Booming Blade cantrip), and especially Sentinel; or spells & class features that produce or augment similar effects. While I know this thread isn't really about classes or builds, I can't not give a shout out to Cavalier Fighter and Conquest Paladin for exactly this sort of thing.

You don't have to worry about bridging communication bariers or gambling with GM ad libbing to convince your opponent to attack you instead of your friends when you have concrete game mechanics that make it inadvisable if not downright impossible to do otherwise. Just hand your enemies a platter of no-win options and let the dm decide which poison they swallow.

[HolyAvenger7]

Perhaps this merits it's own thread as we're shifting to strategy, but here goes. At lower levels where the "glass cannons" are more like glass squirt guns should the Tank focus on protecting them, or eliminating the BBEG? When does the focus shift? I would think that if the Tank is producing the most DPR the best way to protect them to eliminate the greatest threat.

[djreynolds]

Some crazy barbarian in a banana hammock swinging his axe recklessly.....

The enemy doesn't know that this is a raging barbarian, only that when he or she hits, they hit hard. And they look like an easy target swinging away in no armor... maybe no clothes.

So you go ahead and attack, with advantage nonetheless, yet your attacks don't seem to affect this barbarian as much as the next guy. But since its easy to hit this barbarian and since this barbarian just cut the goblin shaman in half, you kinda have to attack.

[GlenSmash!]

I really don't want to start this thread with a description of Race and Class.

Lets just say it's a general Tutorial about how to grab Aggro in your 5E setting.

So how does one set out an 'Idea' that you are the 1st guy that should be hit Without letting them know you are Too Difficult to hit???

Eat enemies' Attacks of Opportunity so your party mates don't have to worry about it.

Stand in Choke points.

Incentivize enemies to attack you (Reckless Attack).

Punish enemies that ignore you (Sentinel, Bear Totem 14, Ancestral Guardians, Cavalier etc.)

[Sception]

Eat enemies' Attacks of Opportunity so your party mates don't have to worry about it.

Stand in Choke points.

Incentivize enemies to attack you (Reckless Attack).

Punish enemies that ignore you (Sentinel, Bear Totem 14, Ancestral Guardians, Cavalier etc.)

To this list add:

Reduce, Eliminate, or Punish physical movement away from you (prone, restrain, grapple, sentinel, booming blade (especially combined with warcaster, aura of conquest).

Basically, anything that makes you 'sticky'.

The fact that the sentinel feat both punishes enemies who attack your allies within your reach AND turns your opportunity attack into a movement cancelling control ability the literally prevents one enemy a turn (more if your GM is foolish enough to allow tunnel fighter from UA) from leaving your reach really makes it a premier option for tanking. That one feat alone can turn basically any character with decent HP and defenses into a reasonable party tank.

[LudicSavant]

The Barbarian's ability to generate aggro from going shirtless is going to be fairly minor against people who don't act like MMORPG AI lemmings, because there is no way that people don't know that they live in a world of magic, monsters, and mythical heroes who can tank explosions with their pecs, just like in a world of superheroes even halfway reasonable people aren't going to spend 10 minutes being confused that a bullet bounced off of Luke Cage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgPxeuMNbyg). And even if you don't know that you live in such a world, somehow (such as a masquerade-style setting, which D&D usually isn't), it doesn't take long for someone to notice that they're not slowing something down. That doesn't just apply for bullets actually bouncing off someone truly bulletproof, either. It applies just as much for, say, a hippo being attacked by lions (https://youtu.be/ja9DjLG8paU?t=48s), or an elephant being shot with an arrow, or just one human in a fistfight with a physically superior one (https://youtu.be/FpLa_C-mG-c?t=5m11s). It's usually pretty apparent when something isn't very effective (and vice versa). The fact that the guy is making himself easy to hit is only making the difference in durability more apparent, rather than less.

You might get a round out of the whole "I'm not wearing a shirt" thing against someone who's never heard of barbarian rages or any of the dozens of other things in the D&D world that can lead to tough shirtless people (even though there's no particular reason that people shouldn't know that those are a thing in-world, since they are very demonstrably real and noticeable in-world). Then either you need to actually be a good target, or a smart foe is going to identify a better one and go for them.

More likely, an experienced warrior is going to have some idea of what barbarian rages are because people in history are going to have encountered them and passed around stories about them (including stories about what tactics worked and didn't work against them) and so forth, so they see a buff shirtless screaming madman swinging a greataxe and they probably have some idea of what they're in for. It's a reasonable IC conclusion... not to mention one that PCs will make nearly 100% of the time, and adapt accordingly. There's no reason to expect that NPCs will act too much differently, unless the DM is of the "the PCs should never fail and enemies shouldn't use tactics" persuasion. In which case talking about effective tactics doesn't even matter.


Don't seem like the best one (smart ones will figure soon enough). Be the best one, mostly make sure that if they do not attack you it will cost them.

Pretty much this.

[Naanomi]

There is some room to be ‘tricky’ and confuse opponents at least briefly... my mountain-Dwarf sorcerer has a two handed axe to go with her half-plate to play at looking like a Barbarian. Likewise, Monks and Barbarians can wear robes and carry books to look Wizardy. Just so long as you don’t expect the tricks to work forever, they are worth the effort

[LudicSavant]

There is some room to be ‘tricky’ and confuse opponents at least briefly... my mountain-Dwarf sorcerer has a two handed axe to go with her half-plate to play at looking like a Barbarian. Likewise, Monks and Barbarians can wear robes and carry books to look Wizardy. Just so long as you don’t expect the tricks to work forever, they are worth the effort

Agreed.

The problem is you have people in these threads acting like that that's all it takes.

[Naanomi]

Agreed.

The problem is you have people in these threads acting like that that's all it takes.
I don’t think any one tactic would work against all opponents.

Undead or constructs that just attack the nearest target? An orc warlord that seeks out the most ‘challenging’ target? Beasts that engage in pack tactics, but will flee quickly if startled? Demons that just want to kill someone, anyone, before being banished back to the Abyss? Psionic abberations who are attracted to unique minds? A dragon who likes hitting as many targets as it can with its breath weapon because it makes it feel clever?

No single psychological trick will work against all foes

[Sception]

Note that undead are not mindless in 5e. Skeletons aren't the brightest, and zombies are downright dumb, but both are aware of their surroundings and will react to them.

[Naanomi]

Note that undead are not mindless in 5e. Skeletons aren't the brightest, and zombies are downright dumb, but both are aware of their surroundings and will react to them.
Fair enough, but I would expect still many uncontrolled Undead can be expected to swarm-attack the nearest targets more than more complex tactics

[Samayu]

Give advantage to the enemy, using reckless attack or... falling prone after you attack him?

[AvatarVecna]

or... falling prone after you attack him?

A proper tank in action. (https://youtu.be/5dqJs8bpbt8?t=53s)

[GlenSmash!]

Agreed.

The problem is you have people in these threads acting like that that's all it takes.

Has anyone actually made the case that going shirtless as a Barb is an effective way to entice Monsters/NPCs to attack you?

I've seen more people arguing that things like Reckless Attack, which can be interpreted as leaving yourself open to being hit is a good incentive for enemies to attack you, especially given the fact that if you don't put that guy down he is easily hitting your side for big damage.

Shirtless or Armored, that guy would probably attract a lot of attention.

Exceptions could include completely mindless enemies that will just attach what's closest, or on the other end of the spectrum, well disciplined, experienced, or intelligent foes.

[JoeJ]

Has anyone actually made the case that going shirtless as a Barb is an effective way to entice Monsters/NPCs to attack you?

I don't know about that, but it might be a good way to entice monsters/NPCs to make a pass at you.

[LudicSavant]

Has anyone actually made the case that going shirtless as a Barb is an effective way to entice Monsters/NPCs to attack you?

Yes. And someone just did it again following your post :smalltongue: