Hasted giant scorpion wildshaped druid fighter + great weapon master = over 200 damag

[Belier]

Moon druid level 9, fighter champion level 11

So I was thinking it was kind of insane damage output.

Without using multiattack.

Attack sting = 7 + 22(or halves)
Extra Attack sting = 7 + 22(or halves)
Extra Attack sting = 7 + 22(or halves)
Extra haste Attack sting = 7 + 22(or halves)
If you score a critical or fell an ennemy to 0hp
Take a bonus action(great weapon fighter)
Extra Attack sting = 7 + 22(or halves)
Total damage = 35 + (110 or 55) = 145 or 90
This is for averages.

You could take orc as a crit fisher and roll one extra dice when you score crit.
You could take savage attacker for rerolling 1d10 once per turn.
You can action surge to attack 4 extra time and may dish out over 200 average damage if the creature fail each saves.

You can use grappler feat to gain advantage if you hit with a clas and grapple once.

And may be i am missing even more stuff but other than that this form is nuts. Downside, lots of poison damage but that can be overcome with ankilosaurus.

[Belier]

Any way I just thought about it.

Primal Strike
Starting at 6th level, your attacks in beast form count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

This mean the damage poison goes throught. It will still be halved if saves is successful, but it cannot be ignored.
I never thought primal strike could be this busted per raw.

Now per raw does the crit damage double the poison damage since it is part of the weapon attack. I am sure it cannot be because you cannot crit save or fail.

[bid]

If you score a critical or fell an ennemy to 0hp
Take a bonus action(great weapon fighter)
Not sure "with a melee weapon" works for sting attacks.

That's still 72 or 116 damage though.

[Belier]

Not sure "with a melee weapon" works for sting attacks.

That's still 72 or 116 damage though.

Wording on giant scorpion

Sting: Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d10 + 2) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 12 Constitution saving throw, taking 22 (4d10) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

It does qualify for the bonus action, it os a melee weapon attack.

[dejarnjc]

With a measly +4 to hit you won't be hitting many lvl 20 appropriate enemies.

[Belier]

This was a duplicate, sry

[Belier]

With a measly +4 to hit you won't be hitting many lvl 20 appropriate enemies.

It is quoted from wildshape description

If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature's bonus instead of yours.

Else if your proficiency is better use your proficiency

By the way I want to mention the scorpion has a +2 proficiency bonus. It is not worded but you can calculate it.

It has a +2 strength mod and a +4 to hit meaning 2 prof.
It has dc 12 save = strenght mod + prof + 8 base.

Wildshape, you are proficient eith your form, you thus have +6 prof.

Meaning +8 to hit and dc 16 cknsti save.
You can chose between the beast one or yours.

[bid]

Wording on giant scorpion

Sting: Melee Weapon Attack:
That's not a melee weapon.

Melee weapon attack, as opposed to melee spell attack. In both cases it's a melee attack (as opposed to a ranged attack).

An unarmed strike is also a melee weapon attack (iirc), even if it's not a melee weapon.


And now I'm wondering if HAM works against unarmed strikes.

[Unoriginal]

As pointed out, a Melee Weapon Attack is not the same as having a melee weapon

[MeeposFire]

As pointed out, a Melee Weapon Attack is not the same as having a melee weapon

Are you saying that with the idea that extra attack cannot be use with a non-weapon? If so monks will be really disappointed since they went out of their way now to say that the unarmed strike was not a weapon but could be use with things based on the fact that it is a melee weapon attack even if not a weapon. Of course the sting is a melee weapon attack but not a weapon just like unarmed attack so one has to consider that when making arguments.

[bid]

Are you saying that with the idea that extra attack cannot be use with a non-weapon?
I didn't see the word "weapon" in the extra attack feature of monk (and fighter just to be sure).
Brainfart?

[Unoriginal]

Also you don't get to "not Multiattack"

If you're using the Sting, you're using the scorpion's Multiattack action.

[hymer]

Lots of confusion in this thread. Let me try to help clear some of it up:

GWM activates when you crit with a ‘melee weapon’ or reduce your target to 0hp ‘with one’. This will allow you to make a ‘melee weapon attack’, which frustratingly is a different game term from ‘melee weapon’ (as bid and Unoriginal are pointing out above). A ‘melee weapon’ is equipment. A ‘melee weapon attack’ can be made with natural weapons, fists, etc., as well as with the equipment.
In short, the giant scorpion could make the melee weapon attack granted as a bonus action by GWM, but it can’t meet the requirements for activating it in the first place.

Action surge would allow this build to attack three extra times, not four.

Primal strike has no effect on poison damage resistance. Poison damage can be magical (e.g. poison spray cantrip) or not (e.g. spider venom), it makes no difference to resistance or immunity to poison damage. I can’t rule out that there is some creature somewhere which has specific resistance against magical or nonmagical poisons, but I don’t recall seeing one. It’s pretty fiddly, so my guess is that it doesn’t exist.

The poison damage of the sting would indeed multiply on a crit. Edit: See below. Forgot about the saving throw.

The notion that you get your own proficiency bonus to hit in giant scorpion form is mistaken. You retain your own proficiencies (and for that your own bonus), and you get that of the shape (with its bonus), choosing the better if they overlap. But since you cannot become proficient in claw and tail attacks, you always have to go with the giant scorpion’s proficiency bonus there. So you’re stuck at +4 to hit, which is indeed pretty terrible at level 20, where +11 is pretty much the baseline. CR 20 creatures (demiliches and some of the ancient dragons) tend to have AC in the 20-22 range.

And JC has indicated (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/05/can-a-paladindruid-in-a-wild-shape-extra-attack/) that you do get to ‘not Multiattack’. You can use Extra Attack and the normal Attack Action to activate the various natural weapons available to a form.

[OvisCaedo]

The poison damage of the sting would indeed multiply on a crit.


Actually, by one of JC's twitter rulings, it's not supposed to. The poison damage is actually caused by a save effect (caused by the attack hitting) rather than counting as directly being part of the attack's dice.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/536683487517224961

But I think everything else you said checks out as far as my own awareness has gone.

[hymer]

Actually, by one of JC's twitter rulings, it's not supposed to. The poison damage is actually caused by a save effect (caused by the attack hitting) rather than counting as directly being part of the attack's dice.

You're right, thanks! I forgot that there is a save for half on the stinger's poison.

Edit: Corrected it above.

[Belier]

Also you don't get to "not Multiattack"

If you're using the Sting, you're using the scorpion's Multiattack action.

This is wrong, you have the right to make one attack or one multiattack.

Multiattack is a feature.

Nowhere it is mentionned that the scorpion is unable to use the attack action and that you have to use multi attack instead.

Thus you can chose to attack action with a pince or the sting and qualify for extra attack feature since the sting is a melee weapon.

[Unoriginal]

The sting is not a melee weapon.

I admit I was mistaken about the Attack action.

[Belier]

Starting at 6th level, your attacks in beast form count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Read carefully. The poison is part of the attack. It is mentionned attack. I take aytack action, I make piercing and poison damage thus qualifying for the text description and benefit from overcoming from both resistance and immunities. Isn't it awedome?

To all the people claiming that a sting melee weapon attack doesn't qualify for the bonus action of thr gwm feat because it is not anpiece of equipment.

Read again

Great Weapon Master
You’ve learned to put the weight of a weapon to your advantage, letting its momentum empower your strikes. You gain the following benefits:

On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
Before you make a melee attack with a heavy weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage.

The sting is the weapon of the scorpion, as worded with sting. Melee weapon attack. It thus qualify for
You’ve learned to put the weight of a weapon to your advantage. It is nowhere said the weapon need to be a piece of equipment.

You can't qualify for +10-5 because the sting obviously have not the heavy feature.

But since you are making a melee weapon attack you do gain benefit from the wording of this part of the feature.
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action

[Willie the Duck]

Starting at 6th level, your attacks in beast form count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Read carefully. The poison is part of the attack. It is mentionned attack. I take aytack action, I make piercing and poison damage thus qualifying for the text description and benefit from overcoming from both resistance and immunities. Isn't it awedome?

To all the people claiming that a sting melee weapon attack doesn't qualify for the bonus action of thr gwm feat because it is not anpiece of equipment.

Read again
...<etc.>

Literally everything you included here did not support your position. It is unclear why you think it did.

Step back. Stop imploring to 'read again' or 'read carefully' and instead think out (and perhaps write out in notepad or the like so you can proof read and reread and such to make sure you are actually making the argument you think you are) a consistent and coherent line of reasoning, such that you might actually convince someone other than yourself that your position is correct.

Best of luck.

[Aett_Thorn]

Starting at 6th level, your attacks in beast form count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Read carefully. The poison is part of the attack. It is mentionned attack. I take aytack action, I make piercing and poison damage thus qualifying for the text description and benefit from overcoming from both resistance and immunities. Isn't it awedome?

It would be awesome if it were true.

First off, almost no monster/enemy in the game (likely all, but I'm don't have the MM in front of me to verify) has resistance to "non-magical" poison. They are just resistant to poison. Meaning that it doesn't matter where the poison came from, they're still resistant to it. So even in Wild Shape, your poison can't bypass resistance or immunity.

Second, the Poison might be listed as consequence of the attack, but it is not a part of the attack itself. Meaning, while you need to land the attack for it to happen, the poison is a separate, but related sequence that involves the saving throw. So even if there WAS something out there that was resistant to non-magical poisons, it still wouldn't work.

[Belier]

You guys are at least right on one point. The druid is not proficient with sting attacks thus using the +2 beast proficiency for a measly +4 to hit.

[Unoriginal]

A scorpion's stinger is not a weapon. Great Weapon Master won't work with a Monk's unarmed strike, either, because natural limbs do not qualify as a weapon (unless explicitly precised).

[Specter]

The poison-magic thing is irrelevant. If you read the Marilith's description, you will see that it has resistance against 'bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons'. That is, magic weapons will do full damage. But there's no monster that has 'nonmagical poison' in its resistances, it's always just 'poison'. So no matter the source of the poison, if a creature resists it, Ki-Empowered Strikes won't change that.


A scorpion's stinger is not a weapon. Great Weapon Master won't work with a Monk's unarmed strike, either, because natural limbs do not qualify as a weapon (unless explicitly precised).

Also this.

Also, your strategy works best if you go straight Champion and ask one of your buddies to Polymorph you. In the future, you could even be a Purple Worm for even more massive damage.

[Belier]

A scorpion's stinger is not a weapon. Great Weapon Master won't work with a Monk's unarmed strike, either, because natural limbs do not qualify as a weapon (unless explicitly precised).


Martial art quoting. Nowhere it is said that monk unarmed strikes are weapons.
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of Combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk Weapons, which are shortswords and any simple Melee Weapons that don't have the Two-Handed or heavy property.

However, sting is not an unarmed strike, the sting js a weapon, that is why it is stated as sting. Melee Weapon attack.

No where you can read unarmed strike. Melee Weapon attack in the monk description

You are comparing oranges to apples.

[Belier]

The poison-magic thing is irrelevant. If you read the Marilith's description, you will see that it has resistance against 'bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons'. That is, magic weapons will do full damage. But there's no monster that has 'nonmagical poison' in its resistances, it's always just 'poison'. So no matter the source of the poison, if a creature resists it, Ki-Empowered Strikes won't change that.

Also this.

Also, your strategy works best if you go straight Champion and ask one of your buddies to Polymorph you. In the future, you could even be a Purple Worm for even more massive damage.

If you go polymorph way you dont keep your features and wont benefkts from fighter extra attacks 2 times. Wild shape is superior on this aspect. However I admit I don t have looked the purple wurm alpha damage to compare if it does more damage than sting with extra damage

[Aett_Thorn]

Martial art quoting. Nowhere it is said that monk unarmed strikes are weapons.
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of Combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk Weapons, which are shortswords and any simple Melee Weapons that don't have the Two-Handed or heavy property.

However, sting is not an unarmed strike, the sting js a weapon, that is why it is stated as sting. Melee Weapon attack.

No where you can read unarmed strike. Melee Weapon attack in the monk description

You are comparing oranges to apples.

An attack with a melee weapon =/= melee weapon attack. It's weird, I know, but the two are not synonymous in this edition, and it makes for a lot of confusion.

Monk unarmed attacks are a melee weapon attack, but are not attacks with a melee weapon. This means that a Monk/Paladin could still Smite with his fists, but would not be able to have Elemental Weapon cast on his fists.

Put it this way - when you make an attack, it's classified as either Spell or Weapon, and Ranged or Melee. However, a classification of a Melee Weapon attack doesn't mean that you are attacking with a Melee Weapon. Only those weapons listed in the PHB on the weapons table count there (and some actual weapons that monsters use). Natural weapons are melee weapons attacks because they are not ranged, and not a spell attack. However, they do NOT count as attacks with a melee weapon.

[Belier]

The poison-magic thing is irrelevant. If you read the Marilith's description, you will see that it has resistance against 'bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons'. That is, magic weapons will do full damage. But there's no monster that has 'nonmagical poison' in its resistances, it's always just 'poison'. So no matter the source of the poison, if a creature resists it, Ki-Empowered Strikes won't change that.


You are right on the resistance part and primal strike. Your argument is valid

[Unoriginal]

Martial art quoting. Nowhere it is said that monk unarmed strikes are weapons.
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of Combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk Weapons, which are shortswords and any simple Melee Weapons that don't have the Two-Handed or heavy property.

However, sting is not an unarmed strike, the sting js a weapon, that is why it is stated as sting. Melee Weapon attack.

No where you can read unarmed strike. Melee Weapon attack in the monk description

You are comparing oranges to apples.

Look, here's a quote from the Martial Arts Adept NPC statblock:


Unarmed Strike. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (ld8 + 3) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a creature, the adept can choose one of the following additional effects:


A Melee Weapon Attack isn't the same thing as using a weapon. It's just the game use the dichotomy between Melee Weapon Attack and Melee Spell Attack. The scorpion's sting is not a weapon, because natural limbs aren't weapons.

[Belier]

An attack with a melee weapon =/= melee weapon attack. It's weird, I know, but the two are not synonymous in this edition, and it makes for a lot of confusion.

Monk unarmed attacks are a melee weapon attack, but are not attacks with a melee weapon. This means that a Monk/Paladin could still Smite with his fists, but would not be able to have Elemental Weapon cast on his fists.

Put it this way - when you make an attack, it's classified as either Spell or Weapon, and Ranged or Melee. However, a classification of a Melee Weapon attack doesn't mean that you are attacking with a Melee Weapon. Only those weapons listed in the PHB on the weapons table count there (and some actual weapons that monsters use). Natural weapons are melee weapons attacks because they are not ranged, and not a spell attack. However, they do NOT count as attacks with a melee weapon.

I didnt read the martial artist box at first, I remove this text and look for the message below instead.

[Belier]

Look, here's a quote from the Martial Artist NPC statblock:



A Melee Weapon Attack isn't the same thing as using a weapon. It's just the game use the dichotomy between Melee Weapon Attack and Melee Spell Attack. The scorpion's sting is not a weapon, because natural limbs aren't weapons.

I did not see your twxt box on martial artist at first but your example open up something else.

Quoting from monk.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on Your Turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a Bonus Action. For example, if you take the Attack action and Attack with a Quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a Bonus Action, assuming you haven't already taken a Bonus Action this turn.

Flurry of Blows
Immediately after you take the Attack action on Your Turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a Bonus Action.

Per raw your description allow for monks abilities since the sting is an unarmed strike.

You could then level up to level 5 monk for extra attack and flurry of blow or bonus action unarmed strike once out of ki.

It would even be better because you don't have to spend a feat slot.

[Aett_Thorn]

I don't have the PHB in front of me, so can't pull out a page number for you, but here is language from the online SRD:


Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes.

An unarmed strike is a melee weapon attack, but does NOT count as using a weapon to make it.


Edit -> In regards to your point about being proficient with the sting, again, you're not. Natural Weapons =/= count as an Unarmed strike.

[Willie the Duck]

Per raw you need to quote exactly where it is written like this in the phb or dmg. If you do, you got your point.

That statement, in isolation, literally does not make sense. The statement, "per raw" implies that you are referencing a specific rule or statute (in which case, you should be providing a reference to this statute about referencing statutes, so that the rest of us could decide if we agreed with the authority of the body issuing said statute). However, I think what you are trying to say is, "please provide the actual rule wording you are referencing, as that would be the solid evidence needed to determine who has the rules (as written) correct."

Aett_Thorn, do you happen to have that reference handy (or have the time to look it up)? If not, it's immaterial. OP has who has the responsibility for burden of proof mixed up. He's the one who has to make his case.

[Belier]

That statement, in isolation, literally does not make sense. The statement, "per raw" implies that you are referencing a specific rule or statute (in which case, you should be providing a reference to this statute about referencing statutes, so that the rest of us could decide if we agreed with the authority of the body issuing said statute). However, I think what you are trying to say is, "please provide the actual rule wording you are referencing, as that would be the solid evidence needed to determine who has the rules (as written) correct."

Aett_Thorn, do you happen to have that reference handy (or have the time to look it up)? If not, it's immaterial. OP has who has the responsibility for burden of proof mixed up. He's the one who has to make his case.

You are correct, but any way the martial artist example and the previous message conviced me the great weapon master feat may not qualify.

However, monk bonus action unarmed strike abilities do qualify if the sting is an unarmed strike
enabling flurry of blows and martial artist

[Unoriginal]

You are correct, but any way the martial artist example and the previous message conviced me the great weapon master feat may not qualify.

However, monk bonus action unarmed strike abilities do qualify if the sting is an unarmed strike
enabling flurry of blows and martial artist

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/08/17/does-a-beasts-natural-melee-weapon-attacks-count-as-unarmed-strikes/

Apparently, natural weapons do count as weapons, not as unarmed strikes. It seems I was mistaken.

However, the poison damage is still not affected. Same way that doing a crit with a Flame Tongue doesn't mean the fire damages are subjected to the crit.

[Belier]

I agree with the poison damage thing. Fair enaugh you clarified it for me with your example.

This means the beast can bonus action great weapon master.

However, the +4 to hit is measly and battle master precision strike could help make it +1d10 on the strike and grapple feat on the claw attack would mean advantage on all following stjng hit.

I agreed the druid is not proficient into natural weapons, thus using the beast proficiency bonus.

[Unoriginal]

So the new thing is now druid level 9, monk level 5/fighter 3

Shape changing into giant scorpion.
+4 to hit - sting 1d10(7 piercing) + ((22)4d10 poison halves dc12 con) = 29 or 18 average
Flurry of blow =
Another 29or18
+ another 29or18
Extra attack = another 29or 18

If hasted add one 29or18 again

If action surged
Add 29or18
Add again 29or 18
If haste add 29 or 18

Total average if hasted and surged = 232 if all fail, 144 if all success.

Surge only: 174 or 108
No surge no haste 116 or 72
No ki no surge no haste = 87 or 54 all save fail

To improve measly + 4 to hit you can use grappler feat to hit with advantage if you hit with a claw before hand sacrificing a sting hit)

Dude, I was wrong, natural weapons count as weapons, not unarmed strikes.

That being said, keep in mind that with +4 to hit, even with advantage, is really low, and that you're still burning through a spell slot, a wild shape AND an Action Surge for it.

IMO it's balanced.

[Aett_Thorn]

I'm trying to find it, but I don't think that "natural weapon" counts as a true "weapon" either. Even JC in these tweets doesn't specifically address that. They're not unarmed strikes, and I don't think that they count as "attacks with a weapon" either. But I'm trying to find that particular sage advice.

[Belier]

Dude, I was wrong, natural weapons count as weapons, not unarmed strikes.

That being said, keep in mind that with +4 to hit, even with advantage, is really low, and that you're still burning through a spell slot, a wild shape AND an Action Surge for it.

IMO it's balanced.

I edited this text does not exist anymore. However you can use battlemaster for precision strike to gain a claw grapple hit and hit more easily on the other attack. Forcing the ennemey to waste jt s action next turn of hit back with disadvantage.

[JackPhoenix]

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/08/17/does-a-beasts-natural-melee-weapon-attacks-count-as-unarmed-strikes/

Apparently, natural weapons do count as weapons, not as unarmed strikes. It seems I was mistaken.

However, the poison damage is still not affected. Same way that doing a crit with a Flame Tongue doesn't mean the fire damages are subjected to the crit.

Natural weapon is neither a weapon (which refers to manufactured objects you use to beat or stab someone with) nor unarmed strike (which is its own thing, that everyone is proficient with and that does 1+Str damage, unless you have specific features that says otherwise). The language used in the rules is awkward, but it actually makes sense.

Scorpion (no, not that one) monk can either use its natural weapons (which are not weapons, so they don't qualify for GWM or other abilities that require weapons, and aren't listed in Martial Arts, so can't trigger MA bonus action or Flurry of Blows), and which do the listed damage, or unarmed strike, which does monk's Martial Arts damage (but no poison or free grapple on top) and which can trigger MA bonus action or FoB. If you want do to both, and have Extra Attack, just include single unarmed strike into the attack routine to trigger Martial Arts and then continue hitting them with stinger.

Sources:
Unarmed strikes aren't weapons (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/03/29/havent-you-previously-said-that-unarmed-strikes-are-not-weapon-attacks/)
Natural weapons aren't weapons either (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/10/19/does-the-magic-weapon-spell-work-on-natural-weapons/)
Natural weapons aren't unarmed strikes (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/03/13/are-natural-weapons-there-own-category-of-weapon/)
But some natural weapons *may* count as unarmed strikes, if the rules say so outright. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/03/16/what-if-unarmed-strikes-have-the-dual-wielder-feat-to-ignore-the-light-requirement/)

[Belier]

Precision Attack: When you make a weapon attack roll against a creature, you can expend one superiority die to add it to the roll. You can use this maneuver before or after making the attack roll, but before any effects of the attack are applied.

You first it with the claw to gain advantage, if the roll is jot high enaugh, roll superiority dice and then hit grapple.

After that you have advantage on all other hit and if you roll to low you can still precision strike.

[Belier]

Natural weapon is neither a weapon (which refers to manufactured objects you use to beat or stab someone with) nor unarmed strike (which is its own thing, that everyone is proficient with and that does 1+Str damage, unless you have specific features that says otherwise). The language used in the rules is awkward, but it actually makes sense.

Scorpion (no, not that one) monk can either use its natural weapons (which are not weapons, so they don't qualify for GWM or other abilities that require weapons, and aren't listed in Martial Arts, so can't trigger MA bonus action or Flurry of Blows), and which do the listed damage, or unarmed strike, which does monk's Martial Arts damage (but no poison or free grapple on top) and which can trigger MA bonus action or FoB. If you want do to both, and have Extra Attack, just include single unarmed strike into the attack routine to trigger Martial Arts and then continue hitting them with stinger.

Sources:
Unarmed strikes aren't weapons (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/03/29/havent-you-previously-said-that-unarmed-strikes-are-not-weapon-attacks/)
Natural weapons aren't weapons either (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/10/19/does-the-magic-weapon-spell-work-on-natural-weapons/)
Natural weapons aren't unarmed strikes (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/03/13/are-natural-weapons-there-own-category-of-weapon/)
But some natural weapons *may* count as unarmed strikes, if the rules say so outright. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/03/16/what-if-unarmed-strikes-have-the-dual-wielder-feat-to-ignore-the-light-requirement/)

Fair enaugh, I guess this shut great weapon master and battle master precision strike.

Still the damage on paper remain impressive. If it hits.

+4 to hit is still almost as good as a fighter with great weapon master -5 + prof + 5 strenght = 6 at high level.

[Aett_Thorn]

Fair enaugh, I guess this shut great weapon master and battle master precision strike.

I see nothing that would interfere with Precision Strike here. Remember, weapon attack roll just means either a melee weapon attack or a ranged weapon attack, and as we've discussed, these are not the same things as attacks with a melee weapon or attacks with a ranged weapon. So Precision Strike would still work in Scorpion form.

[Belier]

I see nothing that would interfere with Precision Strike here. Remember, weapon attack roll just means either a melee weapon attack or a ranged weapon attack, and as we've discussed, these are not the same things as attacks with a melee weapon or attacks with a ranged weapon. So Precision Strike would still work in Scorpion form.

Great then, cuz precision strike makes this nova build damage viable.

Just remeber that if the target is poison immune ankilosaurus is still awesome.

[Belier]

Sweeping Attack: When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to damage another creature with the same attack. Choose another creature within 5 feet of the original target and within your reach. If the original attack roll would hit the second creature, it takes damage equal to the number you roll on your superiority die. The damage is of the same type dealt by the original attack.

Sting attack
Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d10 + 2) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 12 Constitution saving throw, taking 22 (4d10) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

Would that trigger to poison save on a second creature?

[Aett_Thorn]

Sweeping Attack: When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to damage another creature with the same attack. Choose another creature within 5 feet of the original target and within your reach. If the original attack roll would hit the second creature, it takes damage equal to the number you roll on your superiority die. The damage is of the same type dealt by the original attack.

Sting attack
Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d10 + 2) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 12 Constitution saving throw, taking 22 (4d10) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

Would that trigger to poison save on a second creature?

I would say no. Since you're not rolling that weapon's damage again, but are instead using the superiority dice's roll as the damage, I would say that the poison would not apply. But another DM might rule differently.

[Unoriginal]

Fair enaugh, I guess this shut great weapon master and battle master precision strike.

Still the damage on paper remain impressive. If it hits.

+4 to hit is still almost as good as a fighter with great weapon master -5 + prof + 5 strenght = 6 at high level.

If it hits AND if the target fails a DC 12 CON check, don't forget.

[Belier]

I would say no. Since you're not rolling that weapon's damage again, but are instead using the superiority dice's roll as the damage, I would say that the poison would not apply. But another DM might rule differently.

The manoeuver is quite precise on the amount of damage the target is taking i admit. But even so, if you add a poison coated sword what would you do

Poison, Basic. You can use the poison in this vial to coat one slashing or piercing weapon or up to three pieces of ammunition.
Applying the poison takes an action.
A creature hit by the poisoned weapon or ammunition must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or take 1d4 poison damage. Once applied, the poison retains potency for 1 minute before drying.

It says that the weapon needs to hit. Would you then allow poison save.

[Belier]

As battle manleuvers to take i'd take riposte, precision and sweeping attack.

[JackPhoenix]

The manoeuver is quite precise on the amount of damage the target is taking i admit. But even so, if you add a poison coated sword what would you do

Poison, Basic. You can use the poison in this vial to coat one slashing or piercing weapon or up to three pieces of ammunition.
Applying the poison takes an action.
A creature hit by the poisoned weapon or ammunition must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or take 1d4 poison damage. Once applied, the poison retains potency for 1 minute before drying.

It says that the weapon needs to hit. Would you then allow poison save.

No, because to get Sweeping Attack, you must hit the first target. The poison is already used up for the second.

[Belier]

No, because to get Sweeping Attack, you must hit the first target. The poison is already used up for the second.

Would you really pay 100 gold piece for an extra 1d4 poison damage oncee or for 10 rounds(1minute) effect.No where it is states that the poison is consummed after 1 hit, but it dries in one minute. 1d4 for 100 gold would be ridiculous.
Besides, the scorpion never runs out of poison per raw, unless the dm decides it stinged to much and ask the druid to refresh the shape.

[tieren]

I would say the sweep attack damage is not a pierce by the stinger but a bludgeon from the sweep of the tail itself. PC gets the extra damage listed i the maneuver and logic is not broken.

[Willie the Duck]

Would you really pay 100 gold piece for an extra 1d4 poison damage oncee or for 10 rounds(1minute) effect.No where it is states that the poison is consummed after 1 hit, but it dries in one minute. 1d4 for 100 gold would be ridiculous.

I'm AFB right now, so I can't be sure about the PHB/DMG, but 5e srd has "remains potent until delivered through a wound or washed off" for injury-delivery-method poisons.

Remember, it isn't 1d4--it is 1d4 on top of everything else you have going for in this particular attack. That's why paladins spend a 1st level spell to deal a onetime 2d8 (or 2nd level for 3d8, etc.) extra damage to a single opponent... and yet it's considered one of the more powerful class abilities in the edition.

[Belier]

I would say the sweep attack damage is not a pierce by the stinger but a bludgeon from the sweep of the tail itself. PC gets the extra damage listed i the maneuver and logic is not broken.

Choose another creature within 5 feet of the original target and within your reach. If the original attack roll would hit the second creature, it takes damage equal to the number you roll on your superiority die. The damage is of the same type dealt by the original attack.

Specific says it is same damage thus piercing, not bludgeoning.

[JackPhoenix]

Choose another creature within 5 feet of the original target and within your reach. If the original attack roll would hit the second creature, it takes damage equal to the number you roll on your superiority die. The damage is of the same type dealt by the original attack.

Specific says it is same damage thus piercing, not bludgeoning.

It, however, doesn't say you'll get any bonuses from the weapon, if any. Only superiority die, not Str or Dex bonus, or bonuses from using magic weapon. In normal circumstances, poison doesn't come into it, because it only applies for one hit.

[Belier]

It, however, doesn't say you'll get any bonuses from the weapon, if any. Only superiority die, not Str or Dex bonus, or bonuses from using magic weapon. In normal circumstances, poison doesn't come into it, because it only applies for one hit.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sageadvice.eu/2018/01/25/dueling-fighting-style-the-sweeping-attack-maneuver-does-add-the-2-to-the-damage-against-the-second-target/amp/

I guess this gives a clear answer