300gp per day as a 1rst level wizard... is it possible?

[Joe dirt]

step 1 play a wizard
step 2 identify all spells with ritual indicator so u can cast the spell over and over
step 3 consult the "Spell casting and Services" table below to know what to charge.
step 4 find a ritual spell that's in demand for example cast unseen servants
step 5 use unseen servants to start a disease free brothel charge 5gp per casting and 1 hour of "service" ;)
step 6... cast over and over to profit

so basically u can earn up to 5gp per casting and u can cast it 6 times an hour... that's 30gp an hour... lets say u work hard and put in a 10 hour shift... 300 gold per day is not bad for a 1rst level wizard

Table: Spell casting and Services
Service Cost
Coach cab 3 cp per mile
Hireling, trained 3 sp per day
Hireling, untrained 1 sp per day
Messenger 2 cp per mile
Road or gate toll 1 cp
Ship’s passage 1 sp per mile
Spell, 0-level Caster level x5 gp1
Spell, 1st-level Caster level x10 gp1
Spell, 2nd-level Caster level x20 gp1
Spell, 3rd-level Caster level x30 gp1
Spell, 4th-level Caster level x40 gp1
Spell, 5th-level Caster level x50 gp1
Spell, 6th-level Caster level x60 gp1
Spell, 7th-level Caster level x70 gp1
Spell, 8th-level Caster level x80 gp1
Spell, 9th-level Caster level x90 gp1
See spell description for additional costs. If the additional costs put the spell’s total cost above 3,000 gp, that spell is not generally available.

[JNAProductions]

That requires people be willing to pay you for it constantly. Supply and demand-you have supply, is there a demand?

[smcmike]

Um.... I don’t think that is how brothels work...

[Unoriginal]

...why do you think there would be a demand to be masturbated by an invisible spell with no body heat and little physicality?


I mean, people have hands, or cheaper toys than that.


Also, I'm pretty sure you can only have one Unseen Servant at a time.

[Joe dirt]

That requires people be willing to pay you for it constantly. Supply and demand-you have supply, is there a demand?

true true, this is just a theoretical thread. where spell casting services are concerned.

[JNAProductions]

OH LORD, I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THAT!

I did NOT pay attention to what he was talking about the exact service being! Oh lord, that is...

Yeah, no. I'm sure you can find a few people interested in that, but 60 people a day? Not so much.

[King of Nowhere]

it workss because the prices listed for spells are ludicrous, and they get even more ludicrous for higher level casters.
I believe spell level * caster level [if caster level actually matters, otherwise assume minimum level to cast spell] is more realistic. and wizards would still get filty rich with minimal effort.

[JNAProductions]

Also, are you using the 3.5 costs? Because 5E works differently.

[Joe dirt]

...why do you think there would be a demand to be masturbated by an invisible spell with no body heat and little physicality?


I mean, people have hands, or cheaper toys than that.


Also, I'm pretty sure you can only have one Unseen Servant at a time.

i was just using the unseen servant as a joke but lets say some other ritual was involved, perhaps u have a security company that does the alarm spell for some rich merchants.

and yes as i understand u can have up to 6 unseen servants at a time

[Joe dirt]

OH LORD, I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THAT!

I did NOT pay attention to what he was talking about the exact service being! Oh lord, that is...

Yeah, no. I'm sure you can find a few people interested in that, but 60 people a day? Not so much.

location location location.... if u was located in the very busy port city of vegas u might earn this

[JNAProductions]

location location location.... if u was located in the very busy port city of vegas u might earn this

Not really? I guarantee you there's already brothels there, and they provide real, flesh and blood (wo)men for people, rather than an invisible force.

[Joe dirt]

Not really? I guarantee you there's already brothels there, and they provide real, flesh and blood (wo)men for people, rather than an invisible force.

but those businesses need to compete.... i mean u have zero labor cost vs u must pay those women a high salary... the profit margin would be higher even if u had to undercut them on cost.

also the wizard with unseen prostitutes would be guaranteed disease free, and no risk of pregnancy.

in a real brothel the women had to do something with the babies, that alone would cost money and even 1 case of fantasy herpies is going to drive business directly to the guaranteed disease free brothel

[strangebloke]

This is not 3.5. The cost of a service as listed in the DMG is a guideline not a fact of the universe.

Spells that can be performed as rituals are going to be much cheaper, if for no other reason than that any skilled tradesman can cast them.

Ritual caster feat is a thing, yo. The local guild representative, with his mighty 5 hit die, can cast third level ritual spells and probably has a small book of them. He is definitely a skilled laborer operating with expensive tools, but his existence in the world means that you probably can't earn more than 5-6 GP a day doing this kind of stuff.

PCs don't get to be the only smart people in the setting.

[JNAProductions]

but those businesses need to compete.... i mean u have zero labor cost vs u must pay those women a high salary... the profit margin would be higher even if u had to undercut them on cost.

also the wizard with unseen prostitutes would be guaranteed disease free, and no risk of pregnancy.

in a real brothel the women had to do something with the babies, that alone would cost money and even 1 case of fantasy herpies is going to drive business directly to the guaranteed disease free brothel

Yes, and you have a total of 6 people serviced at a time. Let's say there's 50 people who want to get their jollies off. You'd have to work over 8 hours a day to compete, so there's your labor cost.

In addition, why are the service people getting a salary? Would they not simply get a share of the profits?

Diseases are relatively easy to get cured in a D&D universe, for the most part, and I would be willing to bet your average sailor probably wouldn't care about the potential consequences for the worker.

And to advertise "Disease free!" means that you have to first prove the others aren't-they could make it mandatory for the girls and guys that work under them get Remove Disease or whatever cast on them before working.

Not to mention, again, it's an invisible force. It can exert pressure, but is going to be room temperature. I'm sure it's better than your own hand, but is it better than a real person? I would say no. Not even close.

Now, you might be able to make money as a DISCOUNT brothel but not as a high-end one. Your services just aren't comparable.

[Joe dirt]

Yes, and you have a total of 6 people serviced at a time. Let's say there's 50 people who want to get their jollies off. You'd have to work over 8 hours a day to compete, so there's your labor cost.

In addition, why are the service people getting a salary? Would they not simply get a share of the profits?

Diseases are relatively easy to get cured in a D&D universe, for the most part, and I would be willing to bet your average sailor probably wouldn't care about the potential consequences for the worker.

And to advertise "Disease free!" means that you have to first prove the others aren't-they could make it mandatory for the girls and guys that work under them get Remove Disease or whatever cast on them before working.

Not to mention, again, it's an invisible force. It can exert pressure, but is going to be room temperature. I'm sure it's better than your own hand, but is it better than a real person? I would say no. Not even close.

Now, you might be able to make money as a DISCOUNT brothel but not as a high-end one. Your services just aren't comparable.

if u notice there is a modern day equivalent to what i am saying. in supermarkets u have self checkout, in auto plants u have factory robots... more and more jobs are going away because of automation.... why? because u dont need to feed the robot, offer the robot health insurance (in your example remove disease), u dont need to give the robot a salary.

[JNAProductions]

What does that have to do with this?

Either way, the people are paying someone else to do something for them. They're either paying you, and getting a subpar service, or one of the other people, and getting quality.

[Joe dirt]

This is not 3.5. The cost of a service as listed in the DMG is a guideline not a fact of the universe.

Spells that can be performed as rituals are going to be much cheaper, if for no other reason than that any skilled tradesman can cast them.

Ritual caster feat is a thing, yo. The local guild representative, with his mighty 5 hit die, can cast third level ritual spells and probably has a small book of them. He is definitely a skilled laborer operating with expensive tools, but his existence in the world means that you probably can't earn more than 5-6 GP a day doing this kind of stuff.

PCs don't get to be the only smart people in the setting.

true, this chart may not be accurate, not exactly sure what the dmg says but does it matter? my point being, and i was trying to be funny with my example is that a wizard is always going to make way more money than ordinary labor.

and a local guild rep with 5 hit die and say ritual magic should be earning even more than the 1rst level wizard... no argument there, but they are both going to be earning way more than 5-6 gp per day with spell casting services

[JNAProductions]

true, this chart may not be accurate, not exactly sure what the dmg says but does it matter? my point being, and i was trying to be funny with my example is that a wizard is always going to make way more money than ordinary labor.

and a local guild rep with 5 hit die and say ritual magic should be earning even more than the 1rst level wizard... no argument there, but they are both going to be earning way more than 5-6 gp per day with spell casting services

Honestly, the most profitable would probably be Druid (Goodberry) or Cleric (Cure Wounds). What services do Wizards provide?

Because again-manual stimulation is not one of them.

[Joe dirt]

What does that have to do with this?

Either way, the people are paying someone else to do something for them. They're either paying you, and getting a subpar service, or one of the other people, and getting quality.

being 100% guaranteed to be disease free, baby free, is not sub par.

[JNAProductions]

being 100% guaranteed to be disease free, baby free, is not sub par.

Let's say I give you a cooked chicken. It's 100% healthy, more nutritious than real chicken, guaranteed disease free and will come out easier than anything when time comes to use the facilities.

But it tastes kinda leathery, and has the consistency of jello.

Which would you prefer? Regular chicken, that might possibly give you salmonella? Or the other kind, that's totally safe?

[Unoriginal]

Table: Spell casting and Services
Service Cost
Coach cab 3 cp per mile
Hireling, trained 3 sp per day
Hireling, untrained 1 sp per day
Messenger 2 cp per mile
Road or gate toll 1 cp
Ship’s passage 1 sp per mile
Spell, 0-level Caster level x5 gp1
Spell, 1st-level Caster level x10 gp1
Spell, 2nd-level Caster level x20 gp1
Spell, 3rd-level Caster level x30 gp1
Spell, 4th-level Caster level x40 gp1
Spell, 5th-level Caster level x50 gp1
Spell, 6th-level Caster level x60 gp1
Spell, 7th-level Caster level x70 gp1
Spell, 8th-level Caster level x80 gp1
Spell, 9th-level Caster level x90 gp1
See spell description for additional costs. If the additional costs put the spell’s total cost above 3,000 gp, that spell is not generally available.

That's not even the 5e service table.

THIS is the 5e service table:


Service
Coach

Between towns 3 cp per mile
Within city 1 cp day 2 cp per mile 1 cp 1 sp per mile

Hireling

Skilled 2 gp per day
Untrained 2 sp per day
Messenger 2 cp per mile

Road or gate toll 1 cp
Ship's passage 1 sp per mile


And this is the spellcasting as service part:


People who are able to cast spells don't fall into the category of ordinary hirelings. lt might be possible to find someone willing to cast a spell in exchange for coin or favors, but it is rarely easy and no established pay rates exist. As a rule, the higher the leveI of the desired spell, the harder it is to find someone who can cast il and the more it costs.
Hiring someone to cast a relatively common spell of 1st or 2nd level, such as cure wounds or identify, is easy enough in a city or town, and might cost 10 to 50 gold pieces (plus the cost of any expensive material components).

Finding someone able and willing to cast a higher-level spell might involve traveling to a large city, perhaps one with a university or prominent temple. Once found, the spellcaster might ask for a service instead of payment-the kind of service that only adventurers can provide, such as retrieving a rare item from a dangerous locale or traversing a monster infested wilderness to deliver something important to a distant settlement.

[Joe dirt]

Let's say I give you a cooked chicken. It's 100% healthy, more nutritious than real chicken, guaranteed disease free and will come out easier than anything when time comes to use the facilities.

But it tastes kinda leathery, and has the consistency of jello.

Which would you prefer? Regular chicken, that might possibly give you salmonella? Or the other kind, that's totally safe?

unseen servant can "do" anything a normal servant can do... this is not a rubbery version of what a servant can do, it is exactly what a normal servant can do.... but it does so invisibly. that is the only distinction.

so a better analogy would be would u eat a cooked chicken. It's 100% healthy, more nutritious than real chicken, guaranteed disease free... the only catch is its invisible would u eat it?

[Unoriginal]

unseen servant can "do" anything a normal servant can do... this is not a rubbery version of what a servant can do, it is exactly what a normal servant can do.... but it does so invisibly. that is the only distinction.

so a better analogy would be would u eat a cooked chicken. It's 100% healthy, more nutritious than real chicken, guaranteed disease free... the only catch is its invisible would u eat it?

An Unseen Servant has no body heat, nor organs. And it can't do visual stimulation either.

It's not going to be good at servicing people sexually.

[Joe dirt]

That's not even the 5e service table.

THIS is the 5e service table:


And this is the spellcasting as service part:

ok, and i fail to see the point? instead of 5 gp per casting its 10... and actually its whatever the going price of the prostitute is in my example

[Hecuba]

Setting aside the ... delicate ... question of the example used, the issue of extrapolating from that list to daily returns based on production time is that it presumes excess demand is present or the market clears.

If you presume that excess demand is present, than there is every chance that your PCs can't go to market and purchase those services - excess demand implies a shortage.

If you presume the market is clearing on a service on a daily basis, then you're more or less implying the service has become commoditized. At that point, you're going to have to compete with established commodity traders - presumably magical sweatshops.

For the implied demographics of most settings (and for simplicity of actually purchasing those services as a PC), it is far more reasonable to assume that there is excess supply. There's a wizard (or what have you) in town who is willing to sell those spells when it comes up from time-to-time, perhaps because it provides a nice side revenue stream for his other projects.

[Joe dirt]

An Unseen Servant has no body heat, nor organs. And it can't do visual stimulation either.

It's not going to be good at servicing people sexually.

its also shapeless, so use ur imagination on what "shape" u want and it becomes true... r u into short and petite but the brothel across the street has a lack of such things... well ur wish is my command. if ur taste is more of a tentacle type then congrats u also came to the right place as well.

my point being is some people might grow to prefer such variety, what ever floats ur boat.

[FreddyNoNose]

That requires people be willing to pay you for it constantly. Supply and demand-you have supply, is there a demand?

Then throw in competition because if a ton of money could be made, many will go for it. Raising the supply.

[Legendairy]

Again doesn’t matter much, in earlier examples you looked at machines, not very many things are sexually attracted to machines, yes there are some, SOME.
High priced dolls out there in our world fill a niche as well but again they provide visual stimulation as well. Most people that want to get their rocks off enough to pay, want to see what they paid for. It’s not about just getting off, of that we’re the case they could do it themselves and find whatever visual stimuli they need, for free more often than not.

And doesn’t matter the shape, cause well, you can’t see it.

[Unoriginal]

its also shapeless, so use ur imagination on what "shape" u want and it becomes true... r u into short and petite but the brothel across the street has a lack of such things... well ur wish is my command. if ur taste is more of a tentacle type then congrats u also came to the right place as well.

my point being is some people might grow to prefer such variety, what ever floats ur boat.

You're telling people to *imagine* they're having sex with someone/thing sexy?

[Nifft]

You're telling people to *imagine* they're having sex with someone/thing sexy? ... and telling them to pay 5 gp for the privilege.


This is truly an exercise in mental masturbation.

[Joe dirt]

You're telling people to *imagine* they're having sex with someone/thing sexy?

well the unseen servant can also cause a "force" so ur not just imagining u can actually have the unseen servant form into a particular shape and the person can feel the shape. not for everyone, i realize that but u can make shapes that are the most desirable to the individual.

[Joe dirt]

Again doesn’t matter much, in earlier examples you looked at machines, not very many things are sexually attracted to machines, yes there are some, SOME.
High priced dolls out there in our world fill a niche as well but again they provide visual stimulation as well. Most people that want to get their rocks off enough to pay, want to see what they paid for. It’s not about just getting off, of that we’re the case they could do it themselves and find whatever visual stimuli they need, for free more often than not.

And doesn’t matter the shape, cause well, you can’t see it.

unseen servants can perform multiple actions, the same actions that a normal servant can perform so if u want a more accurate analogy it would be more like a life like sex android,

if this technology existed today it would be an industry worth billions

[Legendairy]

A life like sex android that you cannot see. Makes it less appealing.

Like going to the kiosk for a porn magazine and them handing you a cheaper one that has no pictures or visual stimulation, just blank pages and then saying “it’s better cause you won’t feel bad after, just use your imagination!”

Furthermore your imagination could run wild. Is it a man, a woman, a tentacle monster? You asked for A but you don’t know it could feel like B, C or even D, oh gods, what’s actually happening? That trusty mage didn’t just go invisible himself did he? I mean I don’t judge, just not what I’m into!

[KorvinStarmast]

well the unseen servant can also cause a "force" so ur not just imagining u can actually have the unseen servant form into a particular shape and the person can feel the shape. not for everyone, i realize that but u can make shapes that are the most desirable to the individual. I am going to make an educated guess:
You have never run a small business.
You have never been to a brothel.

You might make more coin in a place with a higher population density by using the Mend cantrip. You'll price the service based on the value of the broken thing that you are fixing.

[Joe dirt]

A life like sex android that you cannot see. Makes it less appealing.

Like going to the kiosk for a porn magazine and them handing you a cheaper one that has no pictures or visual stimulation, just blank pages and then saying “it’s better cause you won’t feel bad after, just use your imagination!”

Furthermore your imagination could run wild. Is it a man, a woman, a tentacle monster? You asked for A but you don’t know it could feel like B, C or even D, oh gods, what’s actually happening? That trusty mage didn’t just go invisible himself did he? I mean I don’t judge, just not what I’m into!

yes it would be like a sex android, u can still feel it and if u want a tentacle monster, who am i to judge. ur not hurting anyone as this is a disease free shop sir

[Legendairy]

I am going to make an educated guess:
You have never run a small business.
You have never been to a brothel.

You might make more coin in a place with a higher population density by using the Mend cantrip. You'll price the service based on the value of the broken thing that you are fixing.

This. Also have to consider the place and which fantasy world.

Probably do better with a couple Wizards one for silent image and the other for the unseen servants. Keep the room dark, the stage lit and bam, profit, maybe lol.

[Legendairy]

No it would be like an INVISIBLE, sex Android, have you ever sat in a seat that moves to a movie that’s not playing? No sound no substance just your chair moves. But you are paying for entertainment, the guy says stair at the wall and imagine the wind and scenery of a rollercoaster. I bet it wouldn’t be exciting.

A sex Android that shows no physical features, shows no emotion, doesn’t make a sound, doesn’t pretend to enjoy the experience, literally nothing, with the exception that SOMETHING is causing pressure.

[Joe dirt]

No it would be like an INVISIBLE, sex Android, have you ever sat in a seat that moves to a movie that’s not playing? No sound no substance just your chair moves. But you are paying for entertainment, the guy says stair at the wall and imagine the wind and scenery of a rollercoaster. I bet it wouldn’t be exciting.

and some prostitutes have "rules" they are not going to let u stick it there, there, or there.... life is full of limits

its called fantasy and some people might get a taste of the exotic nature of an invisible prostitute... u could even con people and say they are having relations with fairies from a different plane

[Legendairy]

Well, you pay for what you like, I wouldn’t go “ya know what I want this specific service” then have them say “we don’t offer that” and me go “that’s ok I will pay anyway.”

[Legendairy]

Silent image would be a tried and true WAY better example except ritual.

You could have stalls set up facing a stage and at 1st level have 3 castings, each casting has 20 stalls at 5gp each that’s a 100gp a casting or 300gp a day, less work time and same money, and actually works in a real world example.

[smcmike]

unseen servants can perform multiple actions, the same actions that a normal servant can perform so if u want a more accurate analogy it would be more like a life like sex android,

if this technology existed today it would be an industry worth billions

This is just astonishingly dumb.

[Joe dirt]

This is just astonishingly dumb.

ok let it be known that to u a sex android would be a "dumb" idea... i am guessing others disagree

[Joe dirt]

Silent image would be a tried and true WAY better example except ritual.

You could have stalls set up facing a stage and at 1st level have 3 castings, each casting has 20 stalls at 5gp each that’s a 100gp a casting or 300gp a day, less work time and same money, and actually works in a real world example.

well there is warlock ability to get unlimited silent images, but u need to be 2nd level

[Legendairy]

I agree with him, an invisible sex Android is a completely fail idea, imho.

[smcmike]

ok let it be known that to u a sex android would be a "dumb" idea... i am guessing others disagree

1. I do think it’s a dumb and gross idea, but recognize that mine might not be a majority opinion.
2. This ain’t that. It’s an invisible, shapeless force. While I do not understand the appeal of a machine that looks and feels like a person, I really cannot understand the appeal of a shapeless force. You don’t see men lining up outside milking sheds to use the machine, do you?

[strangebloke]

true, this chart may not be accurate, not exactly sure what the dmg says but does it matter? my point being, and i was trying to be funny with my example is that a wizard is always going to make way more money than ordinary labor.

and a local guild rep with 5 hit die and say ritual magic should be earning even more than the 1rst level wizard... no argument there, but they are both going to be earning way more than 5-6 gp per day with spell casting services

This is advanced stupid.

You keep thinking that the price is set by the service provided. Like, you do 'x' you get paid 'y'. That's not how economies work.

Price is driven by a lot of things, but with services a lot of it boils down to scarcity. Doctors get paid a lot because not many are smart enough to be doctors. Fast Food workers get paid relatively little because most people can be a fast food worker. If suddenly everyone knew how to be a doctor, health care prices would plummet.

So if becoming a ritual caster is a way to make a lot of money, everyone who is smart enough to do it (13 in INT, WIS, or CHA) and has enough money to do it (~100-200 GP) will do it. This will drive the prices down, until ritual casting becomes about as profitable as anything else available to such a person. (the other jobs such a person might take, humorously, go up in cost, since there's now fewer people who can do those jobs.)

A 'skilled laborer' makes like 2 GP a day. So let's say that the guys who can become ritual casters are much more skilled than a normal skilled laborer. Let's say they're three times as skilled. How much, then would they earn? 5-6 GP.

For high level spells, it's harder to say. Honestly your main limitation here is going to be finding guys who are willing to pay for your ridiculously expensive services. Wizards do have better money-making options than a fighter or even a rogue, but it's hard to quantify. Your best bets are Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and Fabricate.

[Joe dirt]

1. I do think it’s a dumb and gross idea, but recognize that mine might not be a majority opinion.
2. This ain’t that. It’s an invisible, shapeless force. While I do not understand the appeal of a machine that looks and feels like a person, I really cannot understand the appeal of a shapeless force. You don’t see men lining up outside milking sheds to use the machine, do you?


well its hard to know what would happen since magic doesn't exist in our world but if it did i bet there would be all kinds of industries and markets we could not even imagine. one of those things would be an unseen servant brothels, as well as unseen servants who would go into dangerous places like nuclear reactors because no real life would be at risk... think of every roll that an android would full fill in todays world. dangerous, dirty jobs

[the_brazenburn]

No. Just no. That isn't how it works.

It would be easier to cast Friends on a dozen or so girls and convince them to do the actual job, and you wouldn't need to waste spell slots.

Or even better, and less morally questionable, create a movie theater with synchronized Minor Illusion and Silent Image.

Seriously. Don't try your plan. It just wouldn't work realistically, and any half-decent DM should shut you down for even mentioning "Unseen Prostitute".

[Joe dirt]

This is advanced stupid.

You keep thinking that the price is set by the service provided. Like, you do 'x' you get paid 'y'. That's not how economies work.

Price is driven by a lot of things, but with services a lot of it boils down to scarcity. Doctors get paid a lot because not many are smart enough to be doctors. Fast Food workers get paid relatively little because most people can be a fast food worker. If suddenly everyone knew how to be a doctor, health care prices would plummet.

So if becoming a ritual caster is a way to make a lot of money, everyone who is smart enough to do it (13 in INT, WIS, or CHA) and has enough money to do it (~100-200 GP) will do it. This will drive the prices down, until ritual casting becomes about as profitable as anything else available to such a person. (the other jobs such a person might take, humorously, go up in cost, since there's now fewer people who can do those jobs.)

A 'skilled laborer' makes like 2 GP a day. So let's say that the guys who can become ritual casters are much more skilled than a normal skilled laborer. Let's say they're three times as skilled. How much, then would they earn? 5-6 GP.

For high level spells, it's harder to say. Honestly your main limitation here is going to be finding guys who are willing to pay for your ridiculously expensive services. Wizards do have better money-making options than a fighter or even a rogue, but it's hard to quantify. Your best bets are Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and Fabricate.

true, this plan is dependent on how many people actually know magic... in most the games i have played very very few people knew magic or were "heroes"... most the games i played is set in more a dark ages type environment where it was exceptional for someone to know how to read most people are unlearned masses, with the occasional merchant that knows how to read.... so its very campaign dependent i suppose

[Joe dirt]

No. Just no. That isn't how it works.

It would be easier to cast Friends on a dozen or so girls and convince them to do the actual job, and you wouldn't need to waste spell slots.

Or even better, and less morally questionable, create a movie theater with synchronized Minor Illusion and Silent Image.

Seriously. Don't try your plan. It just wouldn't work realistically, and any half-decent DM should shut you down for even mentioning "Unseen Prostitute".

the friends spell is very limited, u only have like a minute... the point of the thread is to go over how ritual spells can make some low level wizard a lot of money and ZERO spell slots expended, but also to add some comedy to the thread ;)

and yes a movie is a very good idea but unfortunately the movie would need to be 10 mins in length unless u are a warlock that can make infinite silent images.

[Legendairy]

No. Just no. That isn't how it works.

It would be easier to cast Friends on a dozen or so girls and convince them to do the actual job, and you wouldn't need to waste spell slots.

Or even better, and less morally questionable, create a movie theater with synchronized Minor Illusion and Silent Image.

Seriously. Don't try your plan. It just wouldn't work realistically, and any half-decent DM should shut you down for even mentioning "Unseen Prostitute".

I said basically this, lol.

[the_brazenburn]

the friends spell is very limited, u only have like a minute... the point of the thread is to go over how ritual spells can make some low level wizard a lot of money and ZERO spell slots expended, but also to add some comedy to the thread ;)

and yes a movie is a very good idea but unfortunately the movie would need to be 10 mins in length unless u are a warlock that can make infinite silent images.

The comedy hasn't been appreciated. Most of the comments on this thread have been directed toward why your example is disgusting and ineffective, rather than to the actual purpose of the thread.

As for the 10 minute limitation, ever hear of animated cartoons? I imagine that in a world without that sort of thing freely available on the Web, people would be willing to pay lots of money for that sort of thing. If you charged like 5 sp a person, and then crammed a hundred or so into a large theater, you could earn way more than 300 gold, in just a few hours.

And it's totally PG, as well. You wouldn't even risk a mod warning for lewdness.

[Joe dirt]

The comedy hasn't been appreciated. Most of the comments on this thread have been directed toward why your example is disgusting and ineffective, rather than to the actual purpose of the thread.

As for the 10 minute limitation, ever hear of animated cartoons? I imagine that in a world without that sort of thing freely available on the Web, people would be willing to pay lots of money for that sort of thing. If you charged like 5 sp a person, and then crammed a hundred or so into a large theater, you could earn way more than 300 gold, in just a few hours.

And it's totally PG, as well. You wouldn't even risk a mod warning for lewdness.

well if u dont like my apples then don't shake my tree

[the_brazenburn]

well if u dont like my apples then don't shake my tree

Some apple trees bear rotten fruit that is in plain sight, but have the potential to give you edible ones if you shake them hard enough.

I don't have a problem with the general idea. It's just your specific example that I find objectional.

By the way, that last sentence was absolutely not a threat. I hope you didn't take it that way, and I'm incredibly sorry if you did.

[Joe dirt]

Some apple trees bear rotten fruit that is in plain sight, but have the potential to give you edible ones if you shake them hard enough.

I don't have a problem with the general idea. It's just your specific example that I find objectional.

By the way, that last sentence was absolutely not a threat. I hope you didn't take it that way, and I'm incredibly sorry if you did.
no problem bro, u have ur perspective and i have mine. i was asking this specific example because i know someone that actually did this... and the dm said ok

[the_brazenburn]

no problem bro, u have ur perspective and i have mine. i was asking this specific example because i know someone that actually did this... and the dm said ok

:smalleek:

I'm sorry about your DM, in that case.

[Joe dirt]

:smalleek:

I'm sorry about your DM, in that case.

well the gm is very liberal with his rewards and such and our group started in a town with sailors.... what do sailors who been at sea for months want? well u guessed it...

[JackPhoenix]

well the gm is very liberal with his rewards and such and our group started in a town with sailors.... what do sailors who been at sea for months want? well u guessed it...

Real woman that's visible, touchable, warm, actually interacts with you, and costs less?

[Legendairy]

Real woman that's visible, touchable, warm, actually interacts with you, and costs less?

Spent sometime overseas...pretty much this from what I saw lol

[Joe dirt]

Real woman that's visible, touchable, warm, actually interacts with you, and costs less?

visible and warm.... true... why would an unseen servant not be "touchable" or "interact" or "cost less" u can charge anything since its a ritual spell that requires no components to power

[Nifft]

Set up shop near a large cemetery.

Position your service as "conjugal relations with the dearly departed".

Hope some poor, unfortunate soul will pay 5 gp for an "unseen service" if he thinks it's actually his dead wife.

Note that by exploiting the grief of the bereaved for cash, you're probably moving a few steps closer to the deep end of the alignment pool.



tl;dr - Ghost blowjob, woo woo!

[JackPhoenix]

visible and warm.... true... why would an unseen servant not be "touchable" or "interact" or "cost less" u can charge anything since its a ritual spell that requires no components to power

Because it's a shapeless force, not a creature. There's nothing to touch there. It can't talk, think or act without direct order. As for the "cost less" part... you want 5gp for a casting, while unskilled worker gets 2sp/day, and even skilled worker (what proficiency, though? Acrobatics? Athletics? Sleight of Hand?) is only 2 gp. Per day.


Snip

Given that necromancy is considered evil and forbidden in most settings and circumstances... that may be even worse idea.

[Joe dirt]

Because it's a shapeless force, not a creature. There's nothing to touch there. It can't talk, think or act without direct order. As for the "cost less" part... you want 5gp for a casting, while unskilled worker gets 2sp/day, and even skilled worker (what proficiency, though? Acrobatics? Athletics? Sleight of Hand?) is only 2 gp. Per day.



Given that necromancy is considered evil and forbidden in most settings and circumstances... that may be even worse idea.

first of all prostitution is very expensive unless u live in a society with a broken economy and people are doing it out of desperation. sex sells both in fantasy and in real life. thats why make up industry is worth billions and why simple sex dolls are worth tens of thousands.

as far as the spell it can "the servant can perform simple tasks that a human servant could do, such as fetching things, cleaning, mending, folding clothes, lighting fires, serving food, and pouring wine." so why couldn't it accurately perform other acts?

as far as evil... the good churchs of the world might consider this an abomination or they might not as it has the benefit of not spreading diseases and unwanted pregnancies.... it might be so effective as the only legal prostitution in some societies.

[Davrix]

OH LORD, I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THAT!

I did NOT pay attention to what he was talking about the exact service being! Oh lord, that is...

Yeah, no. I'm sure you can find a few people interested in that, but 60 people a day? Not so much.

This is the best moment of this thread

Seriously though this is a horrible idea

You would be better off trying to con the Mayer or city lord into letting them clean the steers every day for a gold fee.

[Greywander]

Everyone's been so focused on the Unseen Brothel that no one's even considered how else Unseen Servants could be put to use. For example, an Unseen Sweatshop. You could literally open any kind of unskilled labor-intensive business and replace the fragile meatsacks that demand things like "getting paid" and "safe working environment" and replace them with totally obedient and (via recasting the spell) infinite in supply magical servants.

And that's not even mentioning all the other spells available to the wizard. Mending, Prestidigitation, and Fabricate have already been brought up.

[Joe dirt]

Everyone's been so focused on the Unseen Brothel that no one's even considered how else Unseen Servants could be put to use. For example, an Unseen Sweatshop. You could literally open any kind of unskilled labor-intensive business and replace the fragile meatsacks that demand things like "getting paid" and "safe working environment" and replace them with totally obedient and (via recasting the spell) infinite in supply magical servants.

And that's not even mentioning all the other spells available to the wizard. Mending, Prestidigitation, and Fabricate have already been brought up.

i think the reason he choose a brothel was because the cost of prostitution in the city was high and wanted to capitalize on this aspect.

[Davrix]

Everyone's been so focused on the Unseen Brothel that no one's even considered how else Unseen Servants could be put to use. For example, an Unseen Sweatshop. You could literally open any kind of unskilled labor-intensive business and replace the fragile meatsacks that demand things like "getting paid" and "safe working environment" and replace them with totally obedient and (via recasting the spell) infinite in supply magical servants.

And that's not even mentioning all the other spells available to the wizard. Mending, Prestidigitation, and Fabricate have already been brought up.

Kind of my point above when I said talk to the city lord about having them clean the streets.

At least on my downtime I would of tried to haggle for a town contract to either clean the streets. Muck out stables or something of the sort. Well I mean the servants would, i would read a book and collect my paycheck.

[smcmike]

first of all prostitution is very expensive unless u live in a society with a broken economy and people are doing it out of desperation. sex sells both in fantasy and in real life. thats why make up industry is worth billions and why simple sex dolls are worth tens of thousands.

as far as the spell it can "the servant can perform simple tasks that a human servant could do, such as fetching things, cleaning, mending, folding clothes, lighting fires, serving food, and pouring wine." so why couldn't it accurately perform other acts?


If it’s a simple task, why is it so expensive?

[Ganymede]

Is this really a three-page debate over the commercial viability of a haunted jack shack?


Are these really the tales of adventure we want to tell in our D&D?

[Aett_Thorn]

Is this really a three-page debate over the commercial viability of a haunted jack shack?


Are these really the tales of adventure we want to tell in our D&D?

I mean, at the very least, it's lead to some great euphemisms.

The OP is convinced it's a good idea, even though he's obviously never studied economics or understood why it would be better with a human than an unseen, room temperature force. So I doubt we'll change his mind on it.

For everyone else, it's been good for some laughs as we discuss the Unseen Ween Queens.

[Mellack]

If you want to run a business you need to either be cheaper than the competition or better than them. Since a skilled hireling is just 2GP a day, you are way more expensive. For unseen servant you are not giving them more than a person could do, and in many ways a lot less. You would not be making much money.

[Nifft]

Is this really a three-page debate over the commercial viability of a haunted jack shack?


Are these really the tales of adventure we want to tell in our D&D?

Begrudge us not our juvenile giggles.

[JackPhoenix]

first of all prostitution is very expensive unless u live in a society with a broken economy and people are doing it out of desperation. sex sells both in fantasy and in real life. thats why make up industry is worth billions and why simple sex dolls are worth tens of thousands.

Prostitution may be expensive in modern, western society, for various reasons, including, but certainly not limited to, alll that social baggage that got attached to sex since Victorian times and women actually having access to more respectable jobs. There's no reason why would it be expensive in a society with vastly different economical model, technology level, and social and cultural norms... you know, like D&D, or most of the actual history, which would count as "broken economy" by our standards. Whores used to be pretty cheap in medieval times (hell, even a century or two ago), because it was pretty common occupation, and women's right were... eh.

So, I suggest you improve your knowledge of the subject (and I'm sure I mean economy in general and not prostitution) if you don't want to have your plans criticized so heavily.

[Joe dirt]

Prostitution may be expensive in modern, western society, for various reasons, including, but certainly not limited to, alll that social baggage that got attached to sex since Victorian times and women actually having access to more respectable jobs. There's no reason why would it be expensive in a society with vastly different economical model, technology level, and social and cultural norms... you know, like D&D, or most of the actual history, which would count as "broken economy" by our standards. Whores used to be pretty cheap in medieval times (hell, even a century or two ago), because it was pretty common occupation, and women's right were... eh.

So, I suggest you improve your knowledge of the subject (and I'm sure I mean economy in general and not prostitution) if you don't want to have your plans criticized so heavily.

Lord peter balish disagrees with u... aka little finger aka the richest man in king landing besides the king himself

[Nifft]

Lord peter banish disagrees with u

That guy was forced to leave a country or place by official decree; he was exiled.

Therefore his opinion seems less relevant.

[smcmike]

Lord peter balish disagrees with u... aka little finger aka the richest man in king landing besides the king himself

As with most goods and services in a commercial marketplace, my impression is that there are usually many pricing tiers. Littlefinger appeared to focus on luxury goods, so to speak. Mindless, invisible tug jobs don’t scream luxury to me.

[JackPhoenix]

Lord peter balish disagrees with u... aka little finger aka the richest man in king landing besides the king himself

You mean the complete fictional man, who actually diversified his assets between different enterprises, and is implied to fill his own pockets with the king's gold? The one who valued the brothel (specialized on nobles and rich clientele, not random sailors you've been mentioning in previous posts) because it has given him access to privileged informations about the clients more than for the money? In a setting that more than once shows that cheap brothels are certainly a thing?

Well, if you think so....

[Joe dirt]

You mean the complete fictional man, who actually diversified his assets between different enterprises, and is implied to fill his own pockets with the king's gold? The one who valued the brothel (specialized on nobles and rich clientele, not random sailors you've been mentioning in previous posts) because it has given him access to privileged informations about the clients more than for the money? In a setting that more than once shows that cheap brothels are certainly a thing?

Well, if you think so....

GOT is a fictional world... and little finger is a fictional character, this is true, u got me there but isn't d&d fictional as well?

[Mellack]

GOT is a fictional world... and little finger is a fictional character, this is true, u got me there but isn't d&d fictional as well?

No, it is a game with rules. The world is fictional. If you want you can have your world pay a billion gold for a few minutes alone with an unseen servant. By the rulebook, skilled hirelings can be had for 2 GP for a day's work.

[Joe dirt]

No, it is a game with rules. The world is fictional. If you want you can have your world pay a billion gold for a few minutes alone with an unseen servant. By the rulebook, skilled hirelings can be had for 2 GP for a day's work.

Well to be honest we was playing 3.5 when this was done but still the principle remains. And no I dont think the dmg accurately portrays this part of life.

[the_brazenburn]

Well to be honest we was playing 3.5 when this was done but still the principle remains. And no I dont think the dmg accurately portrays this part of life.

The DMG doesn't portray this part of life at all, and thank God for that.

There's a reason the books say "13 & up", and not "age of consent".

[Nifft]

The DMG doesn't portray this part of life at all, and thank God for that.

Such things would have been in the Playa's Handbook.

[Joe dirt]

The DMG doesn't portray this part of life at all, and thank God for that.

There's a reason the books say "13 & up", and not "age of consent".

and yet fantasy covers many taboo subject, ur telling me a 13 year old can comprehend the aspect of taking someones life.... as this is a game based in part on combat and death but cant comprehend the birds and bees?

[JackPhoenix]

Such things would have been in the Playa's Handbook.

Well, Book of Erotic Fantasy *is* a thing....

And now I wonder what does it says about the price of... ahem... companionship.

[2D8HP]

Maybe a bored noble craving a novel new kick would go for this, but I have a difficult time imagining much of a market for this "service".


...You might make more coin in a place with a higher population density by using the Mend cantrip. You'll price the service based on the value of the broken thing that you are fixing.


Well needlewomen Sandra Battye (https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sandra_Battye) did initially earn more than Rosemary Palm (https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Rosemary_Palm) the "seamstress"


Is this really a three-page debate over the commercial viability of a haunted jack shack?


By Crom I had to stifle a laugh!

Sig-worthy!


Are these really the tales of adventure we want to tell in our D&D?


*imitates Mako*

Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto the waterfrrony destined to wear part with 5 gp went the Cimmerian to the haunted jack shack. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the minutes of high adventure!


..For everyone else, it's been good for some laughs as we discuss the Unseen Ween Queens.


The DMG doesn't portray this part of life at all...


Such things would have been in the Playa's Handbook.


Oh by Lolth's evil eyeliner, this worldbuilding is cracking me up!

[MeeposFire]

Well, Book of Erotic Fantasy *is* a thing....

And now I wonder what does it says about the price of... ahem... companionship.

Please tell me they have not updated that for 5e. I am happy to keep that back in 3e thank you very much!

[JoeJ]

Intriguing idea, but don't forget that... <rolls Wisdom save> ...um, never mind.

[Blacky the Blackball]

Honestly, the most profitable would probably be Druid (Goodberry) or Cleric (Cure Wounds). What services do Wizards provide?

Because again-manual stimulation is not one of them.

I'd actually say that Lesser Restoration would be in much higher demand than Cure Wounds. A lot more people get sick than get injured and injuries aren't contagious like diseases.

On the subject of ritual spells that Wizards could provide, in my campaign the sky above most cities almost always contains competing Skywrite spells advertising local busineses and guilds.

Both of those could be applied to brothels, if you really insist, but personally I don't remember ever having included a brothel in a game.

[oxybe]

I'd probably make a better mint simply selling my services as a laundromat for 1cp/piece of clothes.

And, of course, using prestidigitation to clean it all away.

Clean up even the nastiest of messes for 1 cp! Got some goblin blood on your mum's cloak of elvenkind? Oxy-Clean has got you covered! Need your armour cleaned up for a meeting with the local lord? Give us a bit and a bit, and we'll have you looking like a proper adventurer and not a murder hobo! Got some harlot's perfume on your shirt? Well, hopefully your wife won't ask why your shirt is so darn spotless, but we'll sure as heck get that smell off of it!

You can find us off the main road, on the next right past the Dancing Dragon tavern!

[Asmotherion]

You charge 5gp for an invisible handjob? that's the equivalent of 500$ dude
I'd take my risk with my hand or a fantasy prostitute that's going to charge me 200$ and has 25 percent chance to give me a virtual Std, in witch case, I'll go to the hot female cleric of Sune, talk about my problem, and ask for a Solution.

Magnificient Mansion, now that's a "Summon Brothel" spell, if you use your Variables right. I even had a "Mistic Pimp" who traveled from town to town, and got his clien't preferances in order to "summon" the right variables. "For just 10gp you get to have a day with any lady of your fantasy". It's a difficultly, yet affordable price for an average guy, and can get to fill the space of the 100 servants, to make a huge profit.

At lower levels, you can rent your Unvisible Servants as a Cetering Service (provided you know the firs thing about it) for profit. Or as labourers. A well paid worker makes about 1gp per day. By recicling the ritual, you can activelly make 6 workers per hour, remove 1 for the time it takes to give them instructions, and you have 5 workers who get you 5 gp profit per day.

[Paknoda]

Per PHB Unseen Servant is a "invisible mindless shapeless force", so this would be like an invisible handjob for 5gp? This seems a little overpriced in the context that 5 GP is the income of a skilled worker over two and a half days!

[Aett_Thorn]

And are we all just going to ignore that the Unseen Servant has a Str of only 2? I mean, if we're talking subpar handies, well there you go.

Also, I just happened to go and actually read the spell:


This spell creates an invisible, mindless, shapeless force that performs simple tasks at your command until the spell ends. The servant springs into existence in an unoccupied space on the ground within range. It has AC 10, 1 hit point, and a Strength of 2, and it can’t attack. If it drops to 0 hit points, the spell ends. Once on each of your turns as a bonus action, you can mentally command the servant to move up to 15 feet and interact with an object. The servant can perform simple tasks that a human servant could do, such as fetching things, cleaning, mending, folding clothes, lighting fires, serving food, and pouring wine. Once you give the command, the servant performs the task to the best of its ability until it completes the task, then waits for your next command. If you command the servant to perform a task that would move it more than 60 feet away from you, the spell ends.

So you can't have the Unseen Servant do anything to a person. And you're basically going to need to be in the room with the person anyways. This is just feeling more and more unlikely to be a successful business venture.

[Sigreid]

Would be better off researching an enchantment spell that just does the job so to speak.

[Unoriginal]

Lord peter balish disagrees with u... aka little finger aka the richest man in king landing besides the king himself

I knew his habit of offering invisible wanks to people was a contributing factor to his death.

[Nifft]

I knew his habit of offering invisible wanks to people was a contributing factor to his death.

Something something the invisible hand of the market.

[2D8HP]

Oh my....

You guys are a bunch of degenerates!

Please continue so I may take notes.

This thread can create an "Extended Sig" on it's own!


No pun intended.

[Aett_Thorn]

Something something the invisible hand of the market.

And then there's the long arm of the law, that might come around. If you catch my drift.

[KorvinStarmast]

At lower levels ... The discrete high class call girls and gigilos use Leomund's Tiny Hut for their married patrons. :smallcool:

[Aett_Thorn]

The discrete high class call girls and gigilos use Leomund's Tiny Hut for their married patrons. :smallcool:

This is when you really need a Dream Druid on hand.

I'm not even going to get into the ethical issues involved with having Portable Holes around.

[2D8HP]

You made me spit out my coffee damn it!

I'm supposed to be pretending to work here!

[bobofwestgate]

Who in their right mind would pay 5 GP a "Pop"? Per living expenses 4 GP a month is considered wealthy. So 5 GP is a hell of a lot of gold for a dock worker or sailer to spend on a invisible handy. And no noble or rich merchant is going to settle for an unseen servant when they can afford an expensive brothel

[Sigreid]

This is when you really need a Dream Druid on hand.

I'm not even going to get into the ethical issues involved with having Portable Holes around.

First read that as Portable 'Hoes...

[2D8HP]

For some strange reason I just thought of:

"Harry Potter and the Invisible Skank Tank"

[Joe dirt]

interesting thoughts everyone, dont even get me started on the social implications of the grease spell

[tieren]

How has Mage Hand ledgerdemain not come up yet?

[the_brazenburn]

Come to think of it, Prestigitation and Silent Image could combine with the Unseen... um... thing to make people think that they actually were in a really high-end brothel.

Most of the things brought up were body heat and physical appearance. This would solve both.

[theCourier]

Is this really a three-page debate over the commercial viability of a haunted jack shack?


Are these really the tales of adventure we want to tell in our D&D?

Can I sig this? It's too funny not to.

[Daithi]

One evening at the Red Wizards of Thay's Wizarding School, a smoking hot 1st level wizard student strips off her clothes and climbs into bed. Her evil teacher sneaks into her room and has his way with her.

The evil teacher leaves the room thinking, "Yeah, that was good."
The hot 1st level wizard is also thinking, "Yeah, that was good."
The Unseen Servant is thinking, "Man, my butt hurts."

[Coidzor]

Spells that can be performed as rituals are going to be much cheaper, if for no other reason than that any skilled tradesman can cast them.

That's definitely not a given, between requiring a specific feat, requiring NPCs to gain and acquire feats, and requiring feats to be a thing in that game.


Ritual caster feat is a thing, yo. The local guild representative, with his mighty 5 hit die, can cast third level ritual spells and probably has a small book of them.

Is there actually any guideline that suggests that 4 HD for an NPC yields an ASI or Feat for them?

[strangebloke]

That's definitely not a given, between requiring a specific feat, requiring NPCs to gain and acquire feats, and requiring feats to be a thing in that game.

Is there actually any guideline that suggests that 4 HD for an NPC yields an ASI or Feat for them?

You're mistaking my general point. I'm not saying that, in a 3x fashion, that the NPC can take a feat.

I'm saying that the feat establishes the general idea that regular, intelligent, people, can learn how to cast ritual spells if they've got the gear and training. You don't need 'the gift' to learn how to do ritual magic. Hit dice are just how we represent someone who's experienced.

Obviously in many settings this can't happen, because they'd never get a hold of a ritual book or even know how to read in the first place.

[King of Nowhere]

first of all prostitution is very expensive unless u live in a society with a broken economy and people are doing it out of desperation.
The presumed medieval setting does qualify as a broken economy, with plenty of people being very desperate. It is also a setting where most people don't have the money to pay several gp to a wizard. wizards are rare, but so are the people who can afford to pay the fees listed in the manual. that's why I assume real prices would be much lower: just by looking at demand and offer.
Clerical services would be more sought out, especially remove disease, because disease was common and 5th level clerics are very rare. Still, according to the figures given in the DM handbook, there probably should be enough cleric around, at least in towns, that nobody would die of illness. Clerics would also be more likely to ask for intangible payment, like service to the temple. After all, if you let someone die because he's poor it is very bad public relation, while if you can save his life and gain a proselitizer for that, it's a win-win


The DMG doesn't portray this part of life at all, and thank God for that.

There's a reason the books say "13 & up", and not "age of consent".

Are we pretending that boys are completely asexuate and suddenly develop sexual instinct overnight at they reach age of consent? Because as much as our society is trying to pretend this is the case, welll, that's not. I was adolescent before the internet, and I remember students sneaking around porn magazines in middle grade, because that's the age when the interest starts. I started roleplaying around age 14 as cleric of the god of free sex and drugs.





Are these really the tales of adventure we want to tell in our D&D?

Please tell me they have not updated that for 5e. I am happy to keep that back in 3e thank you very much!
Some people do want to tell that kind of stories. If you don't, you can avoid tables that do, and viceversa. Personally, sex is so much part of life that it wouldn't feel realistic if it wasn't at least referenced somewhat. Nowadays

[Joe dirt]

The presumed medieval setting does qualify as a broken economy, with plenty of people being very desperate. It is also a setting where most people don't have the money to pay several gp to a wizard. wizards are rare, but so are the people who can afford to pay the fees listed in the manual. that's why I assume real prices would be much lower: just by looking at demand and offer.
Clerical services would be more sought out, especially remove disease, because disease was common and 5th level clerics are very rare. Still, according to the figures given in the DM handbook, there probably should be enough cleric around, at least in towns, that nobody would die of illness. Clerics would also be more likely to ask for intangible payment, like service to the temple. After all, if you let someone die because he's poor it is very bad public relation, while if you can save his life and gain a proselitizer for that, it's a win-win

the point of the thread, which got sort of side railed with my example is that a low level caster with a ritual in demand can make huge profits.... lets say we are playing in a world with sex workers are demanding 5 silver/copper pieces from horny sailors instead of gold.... that would still be 300 silver/copper per day depending on how the economy is, an amazing potential income by comparison to other classes or npc's say using smiting tools.

also note the wizard in this example did not expend ANY of their spell slots. these spell slots could be used for a side gig for say using the sleep spell for wealthy individuals that have insomnia. insomnia is a common problem today and i know people that would pay huge to have temporary relief.

as far as cure disease spells and such, true one would have no choice to pay the local clergy for removing such problem but it would not be cheap and many cannot pay for such services if the economy is as bad as u make it sound. it is a higher level to do so... i think its a 3rd level spell so the caster would need be 5th level... 5th level characters don't grow on trees, and such a person would be considered a local hero. i am specifically looking at ways to make easy money at 1rst level, if u want to get really ridiculous have a 7th level wizard with the fabricate spell and some skills to manufacture mass products.

[Tubben]

location location location.... if u was located in the very busy port city of vegas u might earn this

In germany it's a Milchmädchenrechnung, what you did there. It's not like that customers are waiting in a line. You have to talk to them also, wait till they are done. You need to have rooms they can use. They need to be cleaned also and alot other things. Beside this, doubtful you will get customers for THIS.

[Mellack]

the point of the thread, which got sort of side railed with my example is that a low level caster with a ritual in demand can make huge profits.... lets say we are playing in a world with sex workers are demanding 5 silver/copper pieces from horny sailors instead of gold.... that would still be 300 silver/copper per day depending on how the economy is, an amazing potential income by comparison to other classes or npc's say using smiting tools.

also note the wizard in this example did not expend ANY of their spell slots. these spell slots could be used for a side gig for say using the sleep spell for wealthy individuals that have insomnia. insomnia is a common problem today and i know people that would pay huge to have temporary relief.

as far as cure disease spells and such, true one would have no choice to pay the local clergy for removing such problem but it would not be cheap and many cannot pay for such services if the economy is as bad as u make it sound. it is a higher level to do so... i think its a 3rd level spell so the caster would need be 5th level... 5th level characters don't grow on trees, and such a person would be considered a local hero. i am specifically looking at ways to make easy money at 1rst level, if u want to get really ridiculous have a 7th level wizard with the fabricate spell and some skills to manufacture mass products.

You can still only make as much as the customers will pay for it. If you are using unseen servant, the best you can do is have 6 at a time going, so you would make the same as they might pay 6 skilled hirelings, more likely unskilled hirelings. To do that you are still working all day casting, so not sure that would be considered "easy money." You greatest return is risking your life adventuring, which is why PCs tend to be adventuring.

[2D8HP]

first of all prostitution is very expensive unless u live in a society with a broken economy and people are doing it out of desperation...



The presumed medieval setting does qualify as a broken economy, with plenty of people being very desperate...


Um yeah, pondering the real life reasons folks go into the trade bleeds out the humor real real fast.


...Some people do want to tell that kind of stories.


http://castlesandcooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Penny-Arcade-The-Way-Forward.jpg

[the_brazenburn]

Are we pretending that boys are completely asexuate and suddenly develop sexual instinct overnight at they reach age of consent? Because as much as our society is trying to pretend this is the case, welll, that's not. I was adolescent before the internet, and I remember students sneaking around porn magazines in middle grade, because that's the age when the interest starts. I started roleplaying around age 14 as cleric of the god of free sex and drugs.

Completely true. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm saying that they certainly don't need to be bombarded with that sort of thing in a game.

It's precisely because your statements are correct that D&D (and other RPGs) shouldn't have that sort of thing. We don't need people twisting the game we love into a way for teenagers to relieve their disturbing sexual fantasies. D&D, and nerdom in general, have a bad reputation for that sort of thing, and I'd rather the devs don't encourage that stereotype.

[Joe dirt]

Completely true. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm saying that they certainly don't need to be bombarded with that sort of thing in a game.

It's precisely because your statements are correct that D&D (and other RPGs) shouldn't have that sort of thing. We don't need people twisting the game we love into a way for teenagers to relieve their disturbing sexual fantasies. D&D, and nerdom in general, have a bad reputation for that sort of thing, and I'd rather the devs don't encourage that stereotype.

really? I feel like u are in a growing minority and most people who want realism will have sex as part of the story. I'm not saying a game's main component should be centered completely around the question of how people would have sex in a world with magic but i do feel the question must be asked in order for the game to have a feeling of realism.

take game of thrones, sex is a big part of the story and without the sex part u would have an unrealistic fantasy, in the game of thrones story they cover brothels, incest, political based marriages, marriages for love, gay sex, and even taboo subject of rape, where the villian does this to a main character....

where i would agree with u is the game should not just devolve into just about sex but if it provides something important to the story.

and yes btw i think there would be many spells and rituals that would be used to aid sex. unseen servant would be one of them

[strangebloke]

really? I feel like u are in a growing minority and most people who want realism will have sex as part of the story.

"Realism" is a genre, and it is one that DND doesn't simulate very well. DND is much more LotR than it is aSoIaF. There will be sex in the story if the players/DM want there to be sex in the story.

Anyway, aSoIaF is not really much more realistic than LotR, except in the narrative sense, that the dialogue flows more naturally.

[2D8HP]

"Realism" is a genre, and it is one that DND doesn't simulate very well. DND is much more LotR than it is aSoIaF. There will be sex in the story if the players/DM want there to be sex in the story.

Anyway, aSoIaF is not really much more realistic than LotR, except in the narrative sense, that the dialogue flows more naturally.


Despite Gygax's protests, Tolkien was a very big influence on early D&D, at least according to the first adults who in '79 described their D&D games to me (I'd previously played with teenagers).

Among me and the teenagers though, it was Conan, and Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DSs2bX13hVc/S76VaPmTHxI/AAAAAAAAB90/jp_QEn8jKSg/s320/conanelric1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DSs2bX13hVc/S76i4WQ-17I/AAAAAAAAB-E/xdEuV-lr0as/s320/conanelric2-1.jpg

http://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/3/3a/Wonder_Woman_Vol_1_202.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090422155925

http://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/a/a9/Sword_of_Sorcery_Vol_1_5.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100916204718 as well as the 1977 The Hobbit cartoon and the Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger film, rather than Tolkien's books that were influential.

Out of those influences some have said that Fritz Leiber’s Fafhrd and Gray Mouser

"are the most Dungeons and Dragons of anything on the Appendix N list" (https://www.tor.com/2013/07/01/advanced-readings-in-dad-fritz-leiber/)

because they are!

The first published one was the 1939 short story: Two Sought Adventure/The Jewels in the Forest (http://www.baen.com/Chapters/ERBAEN0088/ERBAEN0088___2.htm) by Fritz Leiber, which was an inspiration for a game that came to be called Dungeons & Dragons:


"These rules are strictly fantasy. Those wargamers who lack imagination, those who don't care for Burroughs' Martian adventures where John Carter is groping through black pits, who feel no thrill upon reading Howard's Conan saga, who do not enjoy the de Camp & Pratt fantasies or Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser pitting their swords against evil sorceries will not be likely to find Dungeons & Dragons to their taste. But those whose imaginations know no bounds will find that these rules are the answer to their prayers. With this last bit of advice we invite you to read on and enjoy a "world" where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!
E. Gary Gygax
Tactical Studies Rules Editor
1 November 1973
Lake Geneva, Wisconsin"

http://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/da/72/d4da72d48b4cd079bad6f396a40a21c9.jpg

Besides being an influence on D&D, D&D came to influence the stories, one of which Sea Magic first appeared in The Dragon in 1977, and mentioned "Berserkers" and "Fighter-Thieves".

The thing is the later stories do get "squicky" in parts, when they ramp up the "risqué" elements, and most regard the earlier stories as better.

So while there's precedent for being "risqué", don't go crazy.

[smcmike]

Also, a lot of people hate the sex in Game of Thrones.

[Joe dirt]

Also, a lot of people hate the sex in Game of Thrones.

its only the #1 rated tv show last year
http://www.thisisinsider.com/most-popular-tv-shows-ranked-2018-4#1-game-of-thrones-hbo-20

[smcmike]

its only the #1 rated tv show last year
http://www.thisisinsider.com/most-popular-tv-shows-ranked-2018-4#1-game-of-thrones-hbo-20

That hardly disproves my point. I’m sure some light googling could show you plenty of people who enjoy the show in general, but have a problem with the gratuitous nudity in the early seasons and the extreme sexual violence of the later seasons.

[Joe dirt]

That hardly disproves my point. I’m sure some light googling could show you plenty of people who enjoy the show in general, but have a problem with the gratuitous nudity in the early seasons and the extreme sexual violence of the later seasons.

like a lot of things there is probably a VERY vocal tiny minority that complains about the sex scenes. however this has not changed the commitment to excellence that made the show great to begin with. The series will keep people tuning in because of that commitment.

[King of Nowhere]

Completely true. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm saying that they certainly don't need to be bombarded with that sort of thing in a game.

It's precisely because your statements are correct that D&D (and other RPGs) shouldn't have that sort of thing. We don't need people twisting the game we love into a way for teenagers to relieve their disturbing sexual fantasies. D&D, and nerdom in general, have a bad reputation for that sort of thing, and I'd rather the devs don't encourage that stereotype.
ok, i explained myself poorly. I am not saying that we should add sex for the sake of teenagers. I am saying that most teenagers will want sexual innuendo in their games, and they will insert it no matter how you design the game.
So, going out of the way to "protect" people from sexual content is basically a waste of time at best.
But we are going on a tangent. The DMG doesn't portray sex, but that should in no way stop those who want to explore that side to do it. I also would rather not encourage the reputation of nerdom as repressed perverts, but I also would not want to play priests&proibitionism


That hardly disproves my point. I’m sure some light googling could show you plenty of people who enjoy the show in general, but have a problem with the gratuitous nudity in the early seasons and the extreme sexual violence of the later seasons.

On the other hand, the guys scripting the show probably know their job; they figure that putting all the sex and violence will lure in more customers than it will lure out, and so it's worth including. doesn't show in online debates because most people would feel ashamed to admit "yes, I watch this show for the sex and violence" or "i like gratuitous sex and violence".
Mind you, I am in the "doesn't like gratuitous sex" field myself, but only because when I want that kind of content I go looking for actual erotic content. And sex that doesn't help the story is to me like chocolate on pizza: I like both foods, but not together

[KorvinStarmast]

Also, a lot of people hate the sex in Game of Thrones. I think that the encounter between Jon Snow and Ygritte was OK, but a lot of the rest are ... coarse at best.

[Sigreid]

I think you'd find it more profitable in a large city using prestidigitation and mend to clean and repair broken things instantly for little money per job.

The good will gained from not charging might be more valuable in the long run.

[EvilAnagram]

I tried to capture the essence of the original post in art:

https://i.imgur.com/4H4JXFJ.png

[strangebloke]

Also, a lot of people hate the sex in Game of Thrones.

I think that the encounter between Jon Snow and Ygritte was OK, but a lot of the rest are ... coarse at best.
Amen. The book scenes varied between entertaining in a baudy kind of way, and completely fricking repulsive. Sometimes that was intentional. The show is intensely gratuitous, to the point that it greatly inhibits the story.

like a lot of things there is probably a VERY vocal tiny minority that complains about the sex scenes. however this has not changed the commitment to excellence that made the show great to begin with. The series will keep people tuning in because of that commitment.
Adding sex to DND will not make DND realistic. The result will be DND with sex and nothing more, nothing less. Whether this improves your roleplaying experience is subjective.

In an ancillary point: Game of Thrones is no more realistic than LotR. Game of Thrones is popular, but that doesn't necessarily mean that its good. In fact, I would argue that the quality of the writing has plummeted in the last few seasons. Not everyone who watches it likes everything about it.

I find sexual violence played for entertainment to be a repulsive concept, and stopped watching the show some time ago for that reason.


Don't try to control what kind of content is in the game

BS.

I'm the DM, and I do control what sort of nonsense goes on in my game. If you want to get with the ladies in every town, fine, but I'm not describing it. I don't feel like doing that. Similarly, if you want to run a shop, that's fine, but I'm not roleplaying the 30-odd customers you get throughout the day. If you want to run a haunted jack shack, why not? I'll roll some dice. But I'm not here to provide erotic entertainment for a 15-year old, so he's only going to hear me describe the rough success of the business. If he insists on spending lots of time roleplaying advertisements for his haunted jack shack, I'll take him aside and ask him to be considerate of everyone's time.

This thread covers stuff that is squarely outside DND's wheelhouse.

[Azgeroth]

easiest ways to make money as a low level wizard, is..
the express cleaning service. prestiditation and unseen servant to clean anything top to bottom

teacher/creche assistant, more prestiditation, minor illusion, dancing lights.

travelling handy man. mending (best stick to small towns, where you arn't likely to draw the ire of protection rackets)

mayors PA. message, prestigitation, unseen servant


with the exception of the last example, they are low earners though..

alternatively, you could put those book smarts to use as a book keeper (bean counter) this has the potential to be the biggest money maker, depending on morals..

[2D8HP]

......If he insists on spending lots of time roleplaying advertisements for his haunted jack shack, I'll take him aside and ask him to be considerate of everyone's time.

This thread covers stuff that is squarely outside DND's wheelhouse.


The phrase "haunted jack shack" still cracks me up, but the call of some for "realism" (yeah right) makes me wonder what the DnD-verse equivalents of bleach and pine-sol are.

Come to think of it, I think a laundry business would have more of a market.

[strangebloke]

alternatively, you could put those book smarts to use as a book keeper (bean counter) this has the potential to be the biggest money maker, depending on morals..

Step 1, use the gnomish affinity with badgers to set up local badger-racing ring.
Step 2, use magic and speak with animals to rig the badger-racing.
Step 3, manage the narrative. Make sure people win big payouts sometimes, make an undefeatable badger champion.
Step 4, Get a friend to show up with 'the dark badger.' Start a betting war between the dark badger and the badger champion. Rig the race in favor of a third badger.
Step 5, Profit.

[Nifft]

I am saying that most teenagers will want sexual innuendo in their games, and they will insert it no matter how you design the game.

Heh heh heh, "they will insert it".

Heh heh.

Is it fair to say that your argument should be ignored because someone could take sexual innuendo and "insert it" (heh heh) into your post, therefore whatever you intended to say is null & void?

I don't think so.

I think that the possibility of sexual innuendo doesn't invalidate the point of the game, either.

[Joe dirt]

I tried to capture the essence of the original post in art:

https://i.imgur.com/4H4JXFJ.png

ur orgasm... i mean sarcasm is must appreciated

[Joe dirt]

Adding sex to DND will not make DND realistic. The result will be DND with sex and nothing more, nothing less. Whether this improves your roleplaying experience is subjective.

In an ancillary point: Game of Thrones is no more realistic than LotR. Game of Thrones is popular, but that doesn't necessarily mean that its good. In fact, I would argue that the quality of the writing has plummeted in the last few seasons. Not everyone who watches it likes everything about it.

I find sexual violence played for entertainment to be a repulsive concept, and stopped watching the show some time ago for that reason.


ummm ok, to me i think game of thrones is a work of art. just my opinion and quite frankly i have a feeling that many more people want a game with the kind of intrigue.

for example i love the main reason the different factions are at war to begin with is because the incestuous relationship between the queen and her brother was caught and to save them from being caught jamie lanister tried to kill the stark boy. which set of the entire scene for the coming war.

but to u that is "icky" i suppose... to each their own

[EvilAnagram]

ur orgasm... i mean sarcasm is must appreciated

I wasn't sarcastic. Sarcasm is specifically when you mean the literal opposite of what you're saying. That does not apply to my previous post.

[Joe dirt]

I wasn't sarcastic. Sarcasm is specifically when you mean the literal opposite of what you're saying. That does not apply to my previous post.

sarcasm (särˈkăzˌəm)►
n. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
n. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
n. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

[smcmike]

ummm ok, to me i think game of thrones is a work of art. just my opinion and quite frankly i have a feeling that many more people want a game with the kind of intrigue.

for example i love the main reason the different factions are at war to begin with is because the incestuous relationship between the queen and her brother was caught and to save them from being caught jamie lanister tried to kill the stark boy. which set of the entire scene for the coming war.

but to u that is "icky" i suppose... to each their own

This isn’t the part of GoT that people have a problem with, though, and the incest plot has not actually involved much graphic sexual content. I don’t think anyone would object to a similar plot-line in a game, since it mostly involves tracking down parentage. NPCs can have sexual relationships, and be motivated by those relationships - that’s not the issue.

Consider, instead, a DM that sets a lot of scenes in brothels, and spends a lot of time describing the naked people who are the background of those scenes - basically every early scene with Littlefinger. I would find that pretty unseemly behavior from a DM - it’s not plot, it’s pure titilation. Even if you think it works on the show, it sounds sad and gross at a table.


sarcasm (särˈkăzˌəm)►
n. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
n. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
n. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

You have merely established that you don’t understand the meaning of either sarcasm or irony.

[strangebloke]

ummm ok, to me i think game of thrones is a work of art. just my opinion and quite frankly i have a feeling that many more people want a game with the kind of intrigue.

for example i love the main reason the different factions are at war to begin with is because the incestuous relationship between the queen and her brother was caught and to save them from being caught jamie lanister tried to kill the stark boy. which set of the entire scene for the coming war.

but to u that is "icky" i suppose... to each their own

*Sigh*

The rapings, Joe. My problem is with the rapings. And the pedophilia. And the pedophiliac rapings. Even if those things are happening, I have severe moral qualms about showing them as entertainment, particularly if there's no point.

[Lombra]

There's nothing wrong in talking about sex in any media as long as it's done properly, including D&D games.

Save for members at the table particularly sensitive on that matter. But that's true for any matter really.

I do give props to the OP, my imagination never reached past Mage Hand on that matter.

[Joe dirt]

This isn’t the part of GoT that people have a problem with, though, and the incest plot has not actually involved much graphic sexual content. I don’t think anyone would object to a similar plot-line in a game, since it mostly involves tracking down parentage. NPCs can have sexual relationships, and be motivated by those relationships - that’s not the issue.

Consider, instead, a DM that sets a lot of scenes in brothels, and spends a lot of time describing the naked people who are the background of those scenes - basically every early scene with Littlefinger. I would find that pretty unseemly behavior from a DM - it’s not plot, it’s pure titilation. Even if you think it works on the show, it sounds sad and gross at a table.

nothing wrong with a lot of brothel scenes, IF and only IF the primary story centers around the brothel. u dont have to go into every single minute detail, if i was to describe this scene i would go into great detail the first time and after that i would just say things in very general terms and only give details if a player specifically ask about something as this is a combat based game and the sex scenes should be secondary. but i could see a game where many trips to the brothel would be warranted if ur group was say working for some guy like little finger or perhaps the PC's are investigating the goings on in a brothel.


You have merely established that you don’t understand the meaning of either sarcasm or irony.
so giving the exact definition of sarcasm is not understanding sarcasm?... fascinating, now that's a new one

[Joe dirt]

*Sigh*

The rapings, Joe. My problem is with the rapings. And the pedophilia. And the pedophiliac rapings. Even if those things are happening, I have severe moral qualms about showing them as entertainment, particularly if there's no point.

there is nothing wrong with describing rape in media, i dont understand the qualms people have against the bad guy doing something so horrible. it establishes a true villian.

[EvilAnagram]

so giving the exact definition of sarcasm is not understanding sarcasm?... fascinating, now that's a new one
I think he was pointing to the fact that my post did not utilize irony, which is key to the definition you looked up.

And yes, copy-pasting and comprehending are separate concepts.

[Joe dirt]

sigh...
your claim: "Sarcasm is specifically when you mean the literal opposite of what you're saying."

evidence:

I wasn't sarcastic. Sarcasm is specifically when you mean the literal opposite of what you're saying. That does not apply to my previous post.

ACTUAL definition of sarcasm...
sarcasm (särˈkăzˌəm)►
n. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
n. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
n. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

seems YOU are the one that doesn't understand the definition

[Lombra]

sigh...


ACTUAL definition of sarcasm...
sarcasm (särˈkăzˌəm)►
n. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
n. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
n. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

seems YOU are the one that doesn't understand the definition

Sorry for stepping in but he said his post was not ironic. In the definition you are quoting, sarcasm reads as the use of irony to poke fun at someone. He literally meant what he said, no sarcasm involved.

In case it's not clear, and he can correct me if I misinterpreted: he bluntly called you an attention-well this thread already talked about them anyways- unseen servant.

[EvilAnagram]

sigh...
your claim: "Sarcasm is specifically when you mean the literal opposite of what you're saying."

evidence:


ACTUAL definition of sarcasm...
sarcasm (särˈkăzˌəm)►
n. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
n. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
n. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

seems YOU are the one that doesn't understand the definition
Irony, in the sense used in the definition you provide, is defined as "the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning."

Were I to be sarcastic, I would say, "I love how JoeDirt basically shouts "Sex" and expects us to find him funny." It uses caustic irony to convey humor. I didn't use sarcasm because I didn't use irony. I did use hyperbole, but the use of hyperbole neither implies nor necessitates the use of irony or sarcasm.

[strangebloke]

I'm going to recuse myself from this thread before I say something I regret.

[Joe dirt]

Irony, in the sense used in the definition you provide, is defined as "the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning."

Were I to be sarcastic, I would say, "I love how JoeDirt basically shouts "Sex" and expects us to find him funny." It uses caustic irony to convey humor. I didn't use sarcasm because I didn't use irony. I did use hyperbole, but the use of hyperbole neither implies nor necessitates the use of irony or sarcasm.

i hate to be a stickler but u all decided to go the im an english major route.... here is a second version of the definition from here
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/sarcasm

1. mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult
2. the use or tone of such language

see the KEY word OR... let me break it down... u can be mocking, or contemptuous, or ironic for the definition to fit...

contemptuous (kən-tĕmpˈcho͞o-əs)►
adj. Manifesting or feeling contempt; scornful.

and if u want to go by the original definition i used
ACTUAL definition of sarcasm...
sarcasm (särˈkăzˌəm)►
n. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
n. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
n. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

the key word is often often does not mean **always**

[EvilAnagram]

i hate to be a stickler but u all decided to go the im an english major route.... here is a second version of the definition from here
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/sarcasm

1. mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult
2. the use or tone of such language

see the KEY word OR... u can be mocking, which he was, he was also contemptuous...

contemptuous (kən-tĕmpˈcho͞o-əs)►
adj. Manifesting or feeling contempt; scornful.

but its ok to be those things... haters gointa hate

and if u want to go by the original definition i used the key word is often often does not mean always

I hate to go all English teacher, but I don't recognize the authority of thefreedictionary. com. If it's not Oxford or Miriam-Webster, I do not bother with it. Furthermore, I did not use mocking or contemptuous language, either. While I was clearly expressing contempt, it was not through my specific choice in language. Finally, modern dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. This means that as the misuse of a word becomes more common, it is likely to suggest that as an alternative meaning. Thus, it says "usually ironic" because that is the correct use, but people frequently use the word incorrectly. E.g.: the figurative definition of literal.

[JackPhoenix]

I think you'd find it more profitable in a large city using prestidigitation and mend to clean and repair broken things instantly for little money per job.

The good will gained from not charging might be more valuable in the long run.

Large cities, however, have more competition. Those mage academy drop-outs have to make a living... and potentially any (high) elf can do the same (one or the other, not both). They even have Mage Hand to do OP's proposal, but better (at least you can see the hand and tell the caster what and how should s/he do).


nothing wrong with a lot of brothel scenes, IF and only IF the primary story centers around the brothel. u dont have to go into every single minute detail, if i was to describe this scene i would go into great detail the first time and after that i would just say things in very general terms and only give details if a player specifically ask about something as this is a combat based game and the sex scenes should be secondary. but i could see a game where many trips to the brothel would be warranted if ur group was say working for some guy like little finger or perhaps the PC's are investigating the goings on in a brothel.

Yet compare it to Firefly, where whole episode (Heart of Gold, if you want to know) was centered around brothel, and did just fine without gratuitous nudity or adolescent sex humor. Hell, one of main cast was even a high-class prostitute, and the show still had no need to show her naked in every episode.

[Joe dirt]

I hate to go all English teacher, but I don't recognize the authority of thefreedictionary. com. If it's not Oxford or Miriam-Webster, I do not bother with it. Furthermore, I did not use mocking or contemptuous language, either. While I was clearly expressing contempt, it was not through my specific choice in language. Finally, modern dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. This means that as the misuse of a word becomes more common, it is likely to suggest that as an alternative meaning. Thus, it says "usually ironic" because that is the correct use, but people frequently use the word incorrectly. E.g.: the figurative definition of literal.

ok, maybe i been using the word wrong my entire life but i dont think so. even the miriam-webster dictionary agrees with my version of the word

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b : the use or language of sarcasm

once again the key word is OR
and if u look at the word satire

it means...
a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn

so in conclusion, i agree that MOST of the time irony is involved, but not always.

[Joe dirt]

Yet compare it to Firefly, where whole episode (Heart of Gold, if you want to know) was centered around brothel, and did just fine without gratuitous nudity or adolescent sex humor. Hell, one of main cast was even a high-class prostitute, and the show still had no need to show her naked in every episode.

sorry but i don't know this episode... might need to look it up so thanks. was this show on hbo? or where was it aired. because its my understanding that game of thrones specifically choose hbo to air on because they are allowed to do more, with less red tape. they say they actually film scenes too hot for hbo but then have to tone them down in editing.

and unless u are trying to actually act out the scenes as in live action roleplaying or something, then u can never be "gratuitous". just my opinion.

[EvilAnagram]

ok, maybe i been using the word wrong my entire life but i dont think so. even the miriam-webster dictionary agrees with my version of the word

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b : the use or language of sarcasm

once again the key word is OR
and if u look at the word satire

it means...
a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn

so in conclusion, i agree that MOST of the time irony is involved, but not always.

Note that every illustrative example of sarcasm Merriam-Webster provides involves the use of irony. They do this because the word implies the use of irony, but they make room for the lack of irony because they take being descriptive of how language is used over being prescriptive of how language should be used.

As for using it incorrectly your whole life, everyone runs into a word they've misused their entire lives. Try asking three people what 'nonplussed' means.

[Nifft]

Note that every illustrative example of sarcasm Merriam-Webster provides involves the use of irony. They do this because the word implies the use of irony

Satire or irony, yes, that's what the entry says.

IMXP mocking imitation is a common type of non-ironic sarcasm.

[Mellack]

sorry but i don't know this episode... might need to look it up so thanks. was this show on hbo? or where was it aired. because its my understanding that game of thrones specifically choose hbo to air on because they are allowed to do more, with less red tape. they say they actually film scenes too hot for hbo but then have to tone them down in editing.

and unless u are trying to actually act out the scenes as in live action roleplaying or something, then u can never be "gratuitous". just my opinion.

Firefly was a TV show. It was highly popular and had a movie made from it. It was an example of how to use the topic of sex without the need to be explicit, some would say salacious.

[King of Nowhere]

BS.

I'm the DM, and I do control what sort of nonsense goes on in my game. If you want to get with the ladies in every town, fine, but I'm not describing it. I don't feel like doing that. Similarly, if you want to run a shop, that's fine, but I'm not roleplaying the 30-odd customers you get throughout the day. If you want to run a haunted jack shack, why not? I'll roll some dice. But I'm not here to provide erotic entertainment for a 15-year old, so he's only going to hear me describe the rough success of the business. If he insists on spending lots of time roleplaying advertisements for his haunted jack shack, I'll take him aside and ask him to be considerate of everyone's time.

This thread covers stuff that is squarely outside DND's wheelhouse.
First thing, only in your game you're the DM and you decide what goes on. Do not shot down other people's game because they use different styles. Second, the OP was (if I recall correctly) not going frontal, unless maybe when explicitly asked for details. He said "set up a brothel with invisible servants", which is not "roleplaying the 30-odd customers". Nobody here was going into detail, and it's fine. Now, if a player of mine set up something like that, I would have him roll some dice (maybe charisma for advertising) and decide on a revenue he'd get from it, and that's that.

About sex and realism, it doesn't have to be slapped in your face to add realism. You can know that a character was raped without seeing the scene, or the scene can fade to black when things are about to get too bad. A good example is the work of brandon Sanderson, Mistborn specifically; in the final empire nobles can take any skaa (basically slave) woman they want, but they have to kill her afterwards to avoid accidentally spreading the hereditary magic to the lower class. It happens all the time, and several main characters have lost a lover or relative that way, but you never see it on screen. And at some point the main female character has to fight in underwear, but it was totally justified by the plot (she was at a ball when it started, she ripped her dress because it was too cumbersome to fight in it) and there was no suggestive description. Something like "she ripped off her bulky dress, remaining in her shift, and then she went on to kick donkeys".
That's what I mean by saying "sex has a place in fantasy". Compare with LoTR where nothing even remotely sexual ever happens, period.

[Joe dirt]

anyone else notice this forum is full of OCD nerds obsessed with minute definitions rather than the larger picture?

btw i'm one of them ;) so please no offense to anyone intended

[2D8HP]

anyone else notice this forum is full of OCD nerds obsessed with minute definitions...


It's a Forum started to show of a setting for the Dungeons & Dragons game, that centers on a Web Comic that originally made D&D rules based jokes.

I would be shocked and dismayed if it were otherwise.

[strangebloke]

First thing, only in your game you're the DM and you decide what goes on.
I'm just saying that dnd is not a system that lends itself to things like economics, or sex, or anything remotely related to the stuff dealt with in this thread. Most players come to the table, consequently, expecting a game about fighting dragons, looting crypts, and maybe a bit of character acting. If a player wants to try and draw attention/time to something that isn't that, like market economics, I will be rather cross, and I think most DMs should be. Unless they agreed in session zero that this was going to be an economic-focused DND game, in which case....

????

About sex and realism

That's what I mean by saying "sex has a place in fantasy". Compare with LoTR where nothing even remotely sexual ever happens, period.
What are you talking about?? Sam had ludicrous amounts of sex offscreen! The book tells us this!

I just take issue with the idea that sexual happenings, onscreen or offscreen, are connected to realism in any way. A dry documentary about Rutherford B. Hayes' arbitration of the Uruguayan peace deal probably contains exactly zero sex, but is eminently realistic. Different works touch on different spheres of life.

[2D8HP]

...Most players come to the table, consequently, expecting a game about fighting dragons, looting crypts, and maybe a bit of character acting...


It's more "hoping for" rather than "expecting", "fighting dragons" and "looting corrupts" now, sadly.


...What are you talking about?? Sam had ludicrous amounts...


Don't begrudge Sam, who was the true hero! Unlike those ponces/toffs/posh twits Aragorn and Frodo!

[Aett_Thorn]

Oh man. It seems like our thread about making money from prostituting invisible, limp sky-spirits has somehow gone off-track.

[strangebloke]

Oh man. It seems like our thread about making money from prostituting invisible, limp sky-spirits has somehow gone off-track.

It's actually kind of hilarious. I don't begrudge it at all.

[Joe dirt]

Oh man. It seems like our thread about making money from prostituting invisible, limp sky-spirits has somehow gone off-track.

I was going to add a skyrim reference where a side quest has u seach a necromancer strong hold and as ur character explores the dungeon u find journals describing the necromancers experience into necrophilia and his seduction of young girls just so he could murder them and animate their corps to have his way with them.... but that's too hot for this thread... minds would blow.


It's actually kind of hilarious. I don't begrudge it at all.

Ur not supposed to laugh or be remotely interested in this subject...

[King of Nowhere]

anyone else notice this forum is full of OCD nerds obsessed with minute definitions rather than the larger picture?

btw i'm one of them ;) so please no offense to anyone intended

For me it's not really definitions, but it is details.


It's a Forum started to show of a setting for the Dungeons & Dragons game, that centers on a Web Comic that originally made D&D rules based jokes.

I would be shocked and dismayed if it were otherwise.

+1, on both

[the_brazenburn]

Oh man. It seems like our thread about making money from prostituting invisible, limp sky-spirits has somehow gone off-track.

Here's a rough map of the focus of the thread.

1. People debunking OP's theory.
2. People trying to think of other, more feasible ways to get money out of erotimancy (completely made the word up, no idea if it's real).
3. People discussing whether it's okay for sex to be a major part of D&D.
4. People discussing the relative merits of Game of Thrones.
5. People arguing about the definition of "sarcasm".
6. People finally *coming*(:smalltongue:) to realize how idiotic this thread has become.

Then again, you can only talk about Unseen Brothels for so long. I wish I could be surprised at how long this thread lasted.

[smcmike]

6. People finally *coming*(:smalltongue:) to realize how idiotic this thread has become.


Come, now, this thread never got any dumber than its first post.

[Nifft]

Oh man. It seems like our thread about making money from prostituting invisible, limp sky-spirits has somehow gone off-track.

I for one appreciate this constructive sarcasm.

[JackPhoenix]

Imagine a man at a cemetery being approached by another man: "Hey, I see your wife died recently. If you want, I'll summon her ghost from her eternal rest to give you handy. No, you can't touch her, or talk to her, or even see her... but you'll feel this vague force tugging at your junk. I promise it's really her. Oh, and I'll be standing there to tell her what to do. 5 gold pieces for an hour... what do you say?"

[Legendairy]

Imagine a man at a cemetery being approached by another man: "Hey, I see your wife died recently. If you want, I'll summon her ghost from her eternal rest to give you handy. No, you can't touch her, or talk to her, or even see her... but you'll feel this vague force tugging at your junk. I promise it's really her. Oh, and I'll be standing there to tell her what to do. 5 gold pieces for an hour... what do you say?"

Literally made me laugh, thank you.

[strangebloke]

Literally made me laugh, thank you.

All fun and games until the local clergy catch onto you. "There's *what* going on in the cemetery?"

[Aett_Thorn]

I for one appreciate this constructive sarcasm.

Glad to be of service! Unlike the reluctant air elementals, most likely.

[EvilAnagram]

All fun and games until the local clergy catch onto you. "There's *what* going on in the cemetery?"
"Where's our cut?!"

[Nifft]

All fun and games until the local clergy catch onto you. "Right this way Your Eminence, we have ghosts of little boys too."

"How am I supposed to cast Smaller Mage Hand?!"

"Use less air, or stick in a metamagic, I don't know! That's your damn job, Wankomancer!"

"Excuse me, my title is Jerkofficer."

"Whatever, just get it done!"



Glad to be of service! Unlike the reluctant air elementals, most likely. The fact that you're here voluntarily might have some impact on the quality of service provided. :smallcool: