Homebrew Bard Subclass- Critique

[scoutsdoitbettr]

College of the Dervish; Bard Subclass
3rd level – Defining ability – Dance of the Dervish
Proficient with scimitars and gain the two weapon fighting style, unarmored defense(10+DEX+CHA), use bardic inspiration to begin a dervish dance lasts for 1 minute as long as you are wearing no armor and wielding separate weapon in each hand. You also gain proficiency in performance if you are not already.

While your dance is active, you gain the following benefits:

• Your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
• You have advantage on Constitution (Concentration) checks .
• All creatures within 5 feet of you take damage equal to your bard level + CHA modifier. Creatures can only be effected by this once per turn.

You must remain moving and move at least 5 feet between attacks and you cannot move in the direction you just came from, if you stop moving or are unable to move you come out of the dance. You can end the dance early by using a bonus action

6th level – Ribbon ability- Extra Attack

You gain an extra attack when you make the attack action

10th level – utility- Wall of Swords

Beginning at 10th level you move with such precision that you become hard to hit. When an attack is made against you, you can use your reaction to try and deflect the blow. Roll a d20 and add your CHA (performance) modifier to it, if you roll higher than the attack roll you deflect the blow causing it to miss you. This does not affect any attacks that do not require an attack roll.

14th level – capstone- Beguiling Dance

When you begin your dance, you can choose to concentrate solely on your performance, all creatures that can see you must make a WIS saving throw versus your CHA (performance), if they fail they are entranced by you and are considered under the effects of the enthrall spell for the duration of your dance. The creature can make another WIS save at the end of its turn to attempt to break the trance. If the creature is an ally it can choose to fail the save and will instead gain the benefits of the Heroism spell for the duration of your dance. (Concentration??)




Tell me what you think, its my first time creating a subclass so go easy :) Is it too powerful, not enough so, does it make sense, does it seem like it would work. Etc. Thanks!

[Grear Bylls]

I'm confused. Bardic Inspiration for a one minute buff? A feature at level 10? Might I ask how you created this class? It seems like you didn't have a book and went off memory. I'm not trying to sound rude, but legitimately asking.

This seems nearly EXACTLY like a Swords Bard, from Xanathars.

I can show you a link to my own bard subclass creation, where one person has broken down what it means to BE a bard subclass balance wise. Check out the comment to what I posted, if you want: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?555986-Please-Critique-this-Bard-College

Lastly, might I suggest you put this in the homebrew tab?

Ohhh myyy... I just turned into everyone who commented on MY Bard subclass earlier.... Yes I know I'm a hypocrite!!!

[Ganymede]

You might want to compare this College to the College of Swords in Xanathar's. Many of the abilities here are similar to those of that College, but better.

Secondly, dervishes were religious figures that had a lot more akin to Zealots from Xanathar's. They were not particularly bardic.

[Greywander]

3rd level – Defining ability – Dance of the Dervish
Proficient with scimitars and gain the two weapon fighting style, unarmored defense(10+DEX+CHA), use bardic inspiration to begin a dervish dance lasts for 1 minute as long as you are wearing no armor and wielding separate weapon in each hand. You also gain proficiency in performance if you are not already.

While your dance is active, you gain the following benefits:

• Your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
• You have advantage on Constitution (Concentration) checks .
• All creatures within 5 feet of you take damage equal to your bard level + CHA modifier. Creatures can only be effected by this once per turn.

You must remain moving and move at least 5 feet between attacks and you cannot move in the direction you just came from, if you stop moving or are unable to move you come out of the dance. You can end the dance early by using a bonus action
It looks like you're ripping off the bladesinger wizard, not necessarily a bad thing but it does show. I would drop the Unarmored Defense aspect and instead allow armor while using your dervish dance. Maybe make the dance add your CHA mod to AC. I'd also make the dance a flat twice/short rest like the bladesinger ability instead of linking it to Inspiration Dice. I would probably also drop the fighting style, instead adding some sort of interesting ability related to dual-wielding.

As for that last dance feature, instead of a straight damage aura, how about something like this?

When you use your bonus action to make an additional attack as part of two-weapon fighting, you may make one attack for each creature that comes within 5 feet of you while you move.

(If you do go with that, definitely drop the fighting style, as it would be too powerful. As it is, you might want to cap the total number of attacks you can make, such as up to your CHA mod.)

Also, maybe the ability to use dual-scimitars as a spellcasting focus, so you don't need Warcaster to use magic.


6th level – Ribbon ability- Extra Attack

You gain an extra attack when you make the attack action
You have an interesting definition of "ribbon". Regardless, Extra Attack makes sense for this subclass, but might not be needed if you can make a bonus action attack against any number of creatures while dancing. In fact, you might move that aspect of the dance to here instead of giving it at 3rd level.


10th level – utility- Wall of Swords

Beginning at 10th level you move with such precision that you become hard to hit. When an attack is made against you, you can use your reaction to try and deflect the blow. Roll a d20 and add your CHA (performance) modifier to it, if you roll higher than the attack roll you deflect the blow causing it to miss you. This does not affect any attacks that do not require an attack roll.
So basically Cutting Words, but 7 levels late, restricted to attack rolls, potentially more powerful (expertise Performance), and unlimited times.

Maybe as an alternative, enemies provoke Opportunity Attacks if they miss you with an attack roll. Or if they attack you at all from melee range. Actually, that does sound interesting.


14th level – capstone- Beguiling Dance

When you begin your dance, you can choose to concentrate solely on your performance, all creatures that can see you must make a WIS saving throw versus your CHA (performance), if they fail they are entranced by you and are considered under the effects of the enthrall spell for the duration of your dance. The creature can make another WIS save at the end of its turn to attempt to break the trance. If the creature is an ally it can choose to fail the save and will instead gain the benefits of the Heroism spell for the duration of your dance. (Concentration??)

This should use your spell save DC instead of a contested ability check. The problem is that getting Expertise in Performance gives a significant boost, not only to Beguiling Dance, but to Wall of Swords, too. The kicker here is that you're duplicating the effect of a 2nd level spell, and you aren't even defining what it costs to do so. Does this use your action when you first start your dervish dance? Or can you do this every time with no cost?

Instead, I would do something like when you activate your dance, enemies have to make a Wisdom save or else be stunned until the start of your next turn.


Tell me what you think, its my first time creating a subclass so go easy :) Is it too powerful, not enough so, does it make sense, does it seem like it would work. Etc. Thanks!
Not bad for a first time. Hopefully my suggestions/critique are useful to you.


A feature at level 10?
And now that I check, the bard indeed does not get a subclass feature at 10th level. Huh.

[scoutsdoitbettr]

I'm confused. Bardic Inspiration for a one minute buff? A feature at level 10? Might I ask how you created this class? It seems like you didn't have a book and went off memory. I'm not trying to sound rude, but legitimately asking.

This seems nearly EXACTLY like a Swords Bard, from Xanathars.

I can show you a link to my own bard subclass creation, where one person has broken down what it means to BE a bard subclass balance wise. Check out the comment to what I posted, if you want: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?555986-Please-Critique-this-Bard-College

Lastly, might I suggest you put this in the homebrew tab?

Ohhh myyy... I just turned into everyone who commented on MY Bard subclass earlier.... Yes I know I'm a hypocrite!!!

I took a look at the Bladesinger in SCAG, since it was the closest "style" to what i was going for. If the 10th level ability doesnt fit with the class I would adjust. I realize the other bard doesnt get a 10th level ability. The reason I went with bard is because of the "dancing" and "enthralling".

I would like to differ on your opinion that this is exactly like swords bard. Swords bard is made to fight one on one for the most part, with a flourish that hits multiple, this bard would be made to go into a group and AOE. I do realize that bards arent really meant to be front line fighters, maybe i will look into making this a monk. Which might work out better. I didnt want it to be too much like drunken master either.

I appreciate the criticism. Aside from the "this might not be a bard" do the abilities seem too strong?

[scoutsdoitbettr]

It looks like you're ripping off the bladesinger wizard, not necessarily a bad thing but it does show. I would drop the Unarmored Defense aspect and instead allow armor while using your dervish dance. Maybe make the dance add your CHA mod to AC. I'd also make the dance a flat twice/short rest like the bladesinger ability instead of linking it to Inspiration Dice. I would probably also drop the fighting style, instead adding some sort of interesting ability related to dual-wielding.
The bladesinger was definitely an inspriation. I actually considered dropping the unarmored defense, it does seem a little off, I just liked the idea of this character dancing without armor, but light armor only could work. The reason i linked it to the Inspiration Die was because all bards gain an alternate way to use them, swords bards use them in order to flourish, this was an attempt at the same. I want it linked to the ID but I might need to rework it a little.


As for that last dance feature, instead of a straight damage aura, how about something like this?

When you use your bonus action to make an additional attack as part of two-weapon fighting, you may make one attack for each creature that comes within 5 feet of you while you move.

(If you do go with that, definitely drop the fighting style, as it would be too powerful. As it is, you might want to cap the total number of attacks you can make, such as up to your CHA mod.)

Also, maybe the ability to use dual-scimitars as a spellcasting focus, so you don't need Warcaster to use magic.
I do like this, i originally had something like this, but it seemed a little over powered. I might go back to it and tweak the rules on it.


You have an interesting definition of "ribbon". Regardless, Extra Attack makes sense for this subclass, but might not be needed if you can make a bonus action attack against any number of creatures while dancing. In fact, you might move that aspect of the dance to here instead of giving it at 3rd level.


So basically Cutting Words, but 7 levels late, restricted to attack rolls, potentially more powerful (expertise Performance), and unlimited times.

Maybe as an alternative, enemies provoke Opportunity Attacks if they miss you with an attack roll. Or if they attack you at all from melee range. Actually, that does sound interesting.
Your absolutely right, an AoO would work much better, i was having issues with this one, although I will need to weave it into another, maybe 6th level ability, since bards dont get a 10th.



This should use your spell save DC instead of a contested ability check. The problem is that getting Expertise in Performance gives a significant boost, not only to Beguiling Dance, but to Wall of Swords, too. The kicker here is that you're duplicating the effect of a 2nd level spell, and you aren't even defining what it costs to do so. Does this use your action when you first start your dervish dance? Or can you do this every time with no cost?

Instead, I would do something like when you activate your dance, enemies have to make a Wisdom save or else be stunned until the start of your next turn.
It needs work, I wanted it to have a "charm" feel as well as benefit the group.


Not bad for a first time. Hopefully my suggestions/critique are useful to you.

And now that I check, the bard indeed does not get a subclass feature at 10th level. Huh.
Many thanks! and yes no 10th ability, i realized too