PEACH My First Three Class Multi Build?

[KOLE]

Hey ya’ll!

Spend all day at work yesterday with this idea in the back of my head, culmination of some things I’ve read around this forum and others, and when I finally got off work I stayed up late to build the vision I had. Was hoping to get some critique/advice. First off though, let me preface the build:

-It’s slightly MAD. I know that off the bat. I guess this precludes it from being 100% optimized, but I think it’s worth it.
It comes online later than I’d like. Level 9, to be exact, is when everything really takes shape, but it is viable before then, and my group is good about long campaigns that reach high levels.
-I wanted to go straight Drow, stats would have been more to my liking, but my DM does enforce sunlight sensitivity, which is just too crippling IMO. Half Elf Drow Variant is cool in his book though, and all I really wanted was Drow Magic anyway, so win in my book.
-I made this build at 2am after a 12 hour shift. There may be some mistakes. That’s why I’m asking for some advice.
-A couple of decisions were made for flavor reasons, such as Pact, and Expertise choices.

Now for the crunch! The goal is a Ninja type character. Final level: Rogue 5/Warlock2/Monk 13. Half Elf Drow, 8/16/12/8/16/15 standard point buy.

Progression break down: start Rogue for expertise stealth and deception (important for flavor), as well as profiecencies. Since I won’t be taling more rogue levels till after level 9, i wanted sneak attack online early, that’s why I chose this as starting level. It also makes sense for the character, flavorwise. Next, two level of warlock for Devil’s sight, which is crucial for the whole build. Other invocation is Fiendish Vigor to help curb some squishiness. Cantrips, in addition to racial Dancing Lights, are true strike and mage hand. Not a lot of Warlock cantrips jumped out at me. I know Eldritch Blast is all the rage, but I can’t get sneak attack on that, I’m not planning on spending time at range, and I don’t want to spend my one spare invocation on any of the augmenting choices. Plus I think EB is liiittle cheesy. But regardless, I didn’t really see the need for damaging cantrips as that interferes with sneak attack, my monk bonus action, and extra attack. I like Mage Hand for its utility and True Strike could be a god send for when I absolutely need sneak attack.

Taking Archfey as the patron not only for flavor but also for Faerie Fire, which not only helps me but also helps my buddies. Two other level 1 spells are Hex and Witchbolt. Hex is a wonderful, wonderful spell for the character I’m making here, another extra 1d6 doesn’t hurt me one bit. Witchbolt is to get some range utility just in case, and I wanted to get one “big gun” from Warlock since I had it.

So at level 3 were Rogue 1/Warlock 2. We have a nice temp hp bolster thanks to warlock, 1 free casting of faerie fire thanks to drow magic that lets us use sneak attack more often than not, a great little cantrip that will give it to us if we dont use faerie fire, four other nice spells that help us a lot, and the ability to see in magical darkness... which doesn’t seem important now.

But now, we leave warlock behind forever, as this class wasn’t even meant to be a magic user. And now we finally pick up monk. We drop our leather armor to gain 2 AC, pick up marial arts. Now the character is beginning to take shape! We kite and abuse our considerable prowess, along with our sliver of magical ability, to glide across the battlefield dealing sneak attack damage and back handing fools after we do it. Level two rolls around, and now we finally gain the equivalent of cunning action... but with a class resource fueling it. But that’s fine because now we’re levelling up again, and we’re faster and get a free casting of darkness thanks to Drow magic. That invocation finally pays off, as we stab people in the back in the darkness we can see in. And even moreso now that next level we finally get a big piece of the build puzzle- Way of Shadow! Now we’re a real OG ninja, with more chances to cast darkness and stabby stab.

Level 7- our first ASI! We’re going to take Elven Accuracy and round out our Charisma to 16 to improve our Spell DC. Since we have advantage a lot, this feat will be huge for us.

Level 8- Rogue 1/Warlock 2/Monk 5- finally gives us extra attack, and now we’re one away from the big one. The build finally comes fully online with Shadow Step at level 9! Now we can cast darkness 3 times per short rest + once per long rest, teleport around the battlefield into places only we can see in, gain instant advantage by doing so for sneaky stabby mode, and bonus action slap a gnoll after we hit him with that sneak attack. We can also use faerie fire to help our ranged friends we probably pissed off by putting a big ball of darkness on the field.

From here, we take four more levels of rogue, stopping at level 5 for 3d6 sneak attack dice and uncanny dodge, and never look back to avoid doubling up on evasion. Our second ASI probably goes to Dex, but maybe Wis for our Stunning Strike DC. Either way, we gain AC. Cha will probably be ignored from here on as we’re probably not using our meager spell slots as often as we’re sneaky stabbing people.

From here, it all goes into monk for more ki points and that sweet sweet d8.

What do you all think? Too convoluted? I also don’t claim this idea as completely original, by the way. Petenutbutter put the idea of a ninja monk/rogue in my head, and somebody else on this forum mentioned dipping warlock for their shadow monk. I just sort of decided to combine said ideas. My biggest question is also spell choices. Did I make the right choices? Ive heard Booming Blade is a great cantrip, but I don’t have SCAG so I’m really not sure. Plus, if it’s not on the warlock cantrip list, I’m screwed. I’m not burning a feat for it, ASIs are already scarce enough. Also, what Rogue subclass should I pick up? I’ll only get the 3rd level feature, so that limits things. Swashbuckler is always helpful, but Assassin is both flavorful and useful in this case.

Critique appreciated.

[MrStabby]

I am questioning what the monk adds to be honest. Is it the speed? Is it the casting of darkness?

Instead of monk levels you could add a warlock level to get level 2 spells and get two castings of darkness per long rest. Then if you use arcane trickster for your rogue then you can get some more second level spell slots by investing another two levels in rogue. (Also the shadow-blade spell from Xanthars might be well on theme here)

If it is the second attack from monk you can get that through warlock 5.

If it is the AC from wisdom for the monk you can get that with mage armour.

If it is the movement speed, then use the extra ASI you have from being fewer classes to pick up mobile (although with cunning action it takes some of the edge off this)


I would say warlock 5, Arcane trickster 7 gets most of what you want without monk - making you less MAD (should you so chose). If you do want to add a third class then you can - but it then opens up your higher levels to picking whatever class you want. If you want to keep a decent wisdom as part of your concept then ranger for gloom stalker might work nicely (and ranger gets you other monk abilities like pass without trace) and give you a fighting style. Bard (swords) can add to the magic, mobile fighter feel for no extra MADness.


On the other hand if your concept is "monk+" and the monk is mandatory then it's a fine implementation. You might want to also consider Xanthar's shadow sorcerer in the mix instead of warlock: darkness you can see through. Quicken metamagic can also let you do it as a bonus action on the same turn as beating the snot out of the poor sap stuck inside it.

[KOLE]

I am questioning what the monk adds to be honest. Is it the speed? Is it the casting of darkness?

On the other hand if your concept is "monk+" and the monk is mandatory then it's a fine implementation. You might want to also consider Xanthar's shadow sorcerer in the mix instead of warlock: darkness you can see through. Quicken metamagic can also let you do it as a bonus action on the same turn as beating the snot out of the poor sap stuck inside it.

Monk is mandatory; especially since most of the class is built around Shadow Step. I will look into sorcerer though! Thanks for the tip.

[Crgaston]

I think you hit your concept pretty well. Being able to create darkness you can see in to teleport around the battlefield is great. .

I'd take a look at your Warlock cantrips and spells again, though. True Strike is terrible. You'd be trading 2-3 attack rolls for advantage on ONE roll the next turn. And you'll be getting advantage in your darkness anyway. You'll never use it.

You mentioned wanting a ranged backup... Eldritch blast, even unboosted by Invocations, is superior to Witch Bolt and doesn't cost a spell slot. If you don't like it for flavor reasons, Chill Touch or Toll the Dead are solid as well. Or even Frostbite to debuff your enemies. And having a ranged cantrip means you don't need Witch Bolt, which gives you another choice for your 1st level spell. Cause Fear targets Wis, which gives you some versatility (all your other abilities are targeting Dex and Con) and gives disadvantage on ALL an enemy's attacks until it saves. You already get a short range AOE version of it with Feylock though, and it competes with Hex and Darkness for your concentration, so unless you're wanting to double down on the Fear effect, maybe not. Good Non-Concentration spells to look at are Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke. Both are great for punishing those who manage to hit you. AoA can be pre-cast and both gives THP and damages enemies, but you can't pick your target. HR lets you use a Reaction, and you can decide when to use it.

I also would consider another level of Warlock at some point, probably at character level 10. Then you could use your spell slots for Darkness and save more of your Ki for Stunning Strike. Plus, if it's already dim or dark, you could use your Concentration on the Shadow Blade spell and get advantage from it.

Edit: Shadow Sorcerer only lets you see through the Darkness you cast using Sorcery Points, so it's not so hot as a dip.

[Tikkun]

Actually, this build has been around for years and is listed as one of the optimized builds in the danddwiki. Rogue subclass should be Swashbuckler for fancy footwork. This lets you skedaddle around hitting people without generating AOO's. Its not a bad build but unless you are playing to level 20, it is quite a pain for the player. Why? It does not come online till level 11. That is when you get your Rogue subclass. Most campaigns are winding up at level 11. It is very ki starved as at level 6 shadow monk you have 6 ki total. Not a lot of ki to spend between flurry and stunning strike, let alone use pass without a trace. If you do not intend to use your 2 Warlock slots for casting darkness spell that is another 2 ki you have to spend. If you do then hex conflicts with darkness as both require concentration. Finally, your second attack comes on line when you are level 8, so you are behind many of your teammates in damage as your max damage by level 9 is 1d6 or 1d8 if using a quarterstaff and 1d6 sneak attack damage. Aside from that your monk will be starved for ASI. As you are going Drow for the extra darkness cast and elven accuracy your first chance to buff DEX/WIS is either at Rogue 4 or Monk 8--which should be around level 11 or 12 at earliest. At level 12 you may find yourself having problems landing a hit even rolling 3d20.

I think the key is getting to level 20 for those extra monk and ki points. But be prepared to be sub-optimal to a regular shadow monk that went straight monk 11 or 12. No doubt this is a fun build but it is so dependent on hitting level 14 to be considered semi-decent. That is a lot of levels of pain for yourself.

Good Luck and let us know who it goes :).

[KOLE]

Actually, this build has been around for years and is listed as one of the optimized builds in the danddwiki.

I tend to avoid danddwiki aftwr seein some of the awful homebrew around there. But yeah, I didn’t mean to imply I was the first to have this idea.


Rogue subclass should be Swashbuckler for fancy footwork. This lets you skedaddle around hitting people without generating AOO's.

Leaning this way! Someone around the forums once described swashbuckler as “Poor Man’s Mobile”. That fits nicely! I appreciate all the feedback- I’m aware of all the pitfalls of this combo, but I can be patient. My group is pretty good about hitting higher levels, too.


I'd take a look at your Warlock cantrips and spells again, though. True Strike is terrible.

After examining it again with some sleep behind me, 100% agreed.


You mentioned wanting a ranged backup... Eldritch blast, even unboosted by Invocations, is superior to Witch Bolt and doesn't cost a spell slot.

I didn’t realize I had to use my action every turn to deal witch bolt damage! I thought one failed save meant I dealt 1d12 automatically every turn. Good catch, definitely dropping that, probably for...


Good Non-Concentration spells to look at are Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke.

How did I overlook Hellish Rebuke! Finally gives me something to do with my reaction, which was lacking! Excellent!


I also would consider another level of Warlock.

This works well. I initially didn’t want much more levels over 11 for Monk anyway, only for the d8 on unarmed strike. The build definitely has room for one or two more levels.

Thanks for the insight everyone!

[PeteNutButter]

You seem to understand the pitfalls of the build already, but I’d give a big warning if your DM is fond of deadly encounters to shy away from it. Having only 6 hp per level on a character that hopes to slap things in melee can be suicide. 33 HP at level 5 is in one-shot territory if you aren’t careful.

I appreciate you getting inspired by my MC guide, but I have to point out that the monk/warlock is not rated high on it as the monk just doesn’t play well with others. It is far too stat dependent, which you pay for in con.

[the secret fire]

Honestly, you're better off just skipping Warlock with this build, and going Rogue 1/Monk 6 (for second subclass ability)...and then progressing in Monk/Rogue levels from there. The "cast-darkness-and-TP-around" combat tactic is not nearly as good in practice as it sounds in theory. Casting Darkness will cost you an action, and that spell doesn't play well with others in the party.

If you want to cast Darkness-with-Devil's sight and attack out of it, you're best off using it as a kind of shooting blind, casting it over yourself (getting a little distance from the party so it doesn't screw them up, and going with ranged attacks. Warlock 2 gives you this option without needing anything else (simply use EB), and Rogue adds the most damage to the attack (and the biggest bonus damage on crit) through SA dice. So, something like Rogue 1/Warlock 2/Rogue x might also work out for you.

But honestly...the Warlock's Darkness & Devil's Sight schtick isn't all it's cracked up to be. It tends to be annoying for the DM and other players, and there will be many combat scenarios where casting Darkness doesn't do you much good, and may be actively detrimental.

A more playable version of what you're going for is probably something like Rogue 1/Monk (Shadow) 6...and then go from there. You can snag Rogue 3, and make him an assassin. At some point early, you really ought to grab Skulker. You can and probably should just go vhuman here, as Shadow Monk will let you cast Darkvision starting at 3rd level. It's less MAD, as well (same primary stats as standard Monk).