Seen any homebrew subclass in the style of this?

[Spacehamster]

There have already been a couple race restricted sub classes but were thinking about making an elf barbarian subclass and call it something like woodland ravager, basically elven warriors who’s tribes have been slaughtered that are obsessed and filled with rage and hate afterwards, style of fighting elven grace mixed with the ferocious abandon of a injured animal.

Want it to get some additional use of DEX while still using STR for getting rage damage ofc, probably get two weapon fighting style at level 3 and gain half DEX mod rounded up to damage while dual wielding(strong enough to make it comparable to 2H heavy weapons?) to make it different from the normal barb subs, what else type of abilities would you give this type of toon?

Probably want to make it a weee bit stronger than the other barb subs since it is by nature unoptimal due to starting with max 15 STR(pure elves only no halfies).

[AureusFulgens]

There have already been a couple race restricted sub classes but were thinking about making an elf barbarian subclass and call it something like woodland ravager, basically elven warriors who’s tribes have been slaughtered that are obsessed and filled with rage and hate afterwards, style of fighting elven grace mixed with the ferocious abandon of a injured animal.

Want it to get some additional use of DEX while still using STR for getting rage damage ofc, probably get two weapon fighting style at level 3 and gain half DEX mod rounded up to damage while dual wielding(strong enough to make it comparable to 2H heavy weapons?) to make it different from the normal barb subs, what else type of abilities would you give this type of toon?

Probably want to make it a weee bit stronger than the other barb subs since it is by nature unoptimal due to starting with max 15 STR(pure elves only no halfies).

My first thought is that this seems like a Homebrew topic.

My second thought is that the fluff is oddly specific. If you're thinking of designing this, I'd recommend broadening it at least a little. Take bladesingers, for example. They're restricted to being elves, and their magic is vaguely musical, but that's as specific as it gets. Making a subclass this fluff-specific makes it kind of hard to use. It assumes that elves live in tribes, and it can only be used if their tribe is destroyed. There would be a lot to be said for just making it an elven tradition of rage that makes use of their natural grace. Maybe it's a family gift passed down in bloodlines, or a skill that can be taught, or a magically bestowed ability... or maybe even that much doesn't matter.

My third thought is that I don't know that this game needs more support for Dexterity. As much as I like a nice graceful character (there's a reason my first character was a Dexterity-based paladin, and it's *not* that I knew Dexterity was a more powerful ability in general), I think Barbarians might already be strong enough as a class without allowing them to key off of the so-called "god stat". Though I welcome more knowledgeable theorists to quibble with that.

[Spacehamster]

My first thought is that this seems like a Homebrew topic.

My second thought is that the fluff is oddly specific. If you're thinking of designing this, I'd recommend broadening it at least a little. Take bladesingers, for example. They're restricted to being elves, and their magic is vaguely musical, but that's as specific as it gets. Making a subclass this fluff-specific makes it kind of hard to use. It assumes that elves live in tribes, and it can only be used if their tribe is destroyed. There would be a lot to be said for just making it an elven tradition of rage that makes use of their natural grace. Maybe it's a family gift passed down in bloodlines, or a skill that can be taught, or a magically bestowed ability... or maybe even that much doesn't matter.

My third thought is that I don't know that this game needs more support for Dexterity. As much as I like a nice graceful character (there's a reason my first character was a Dexterity-based paladin, and it's *not* that I knew Dexterity was a more powerful ability in general), I think Barbarians might already be strong enough as a class without allowing them to key off of the so-called "god stat". Though I welcome more knowledgeable theorists to quibble with that.
Well it could be their family had died not a tribe specifically, were just throwing out some general ideas, and giving buffs from DEX makes it weaker not stronger since it just makes it more MAD?

[Asmotherion]

Seems like what you're looking for can be broken down and simplified in 3 simple subsections:

A) A cool custom backround
B) Start off as Fighter 2, using Dexterity instead of Str. Two Weapon Fighting.
C) Dip 1 level of Barbarian. This represents you getting Rage, swiching to using STR wile raging etc, and adding (passively) your Con bonus to AC instead of using Armor.

With a 14 Str (because advantage), a 18+ Dex and a 16+ Con you're ok to go.

No need for a fancy homebrew class, just a right amound of multiclassing.

[JackPhoenix]

Well it could be their family had died not a tribe specifically, were just throwing out some general ideas, and giving buffs from DEX makes it weaker not stronger since it just makes it more MAD?

It makes is less MAD, because it won't need Str. Normal barbarian need Str to attack, Dex for AC and Con for HP and AC, if going unarmed.

Your version would use Dex for attack (and it would have good melee and better range than normal barbarian), AC (and with the incentive to put ASI into Dex, it'll have better AC than most barbarians) and Con (same reason as normal barbarian, but more free points, because there's no need to pump Str anymore). It would have worse Athletics, but with TWF, it won't have free hand for grapples or shoves anyway, and it would be worse with two-handed weapons, but the class would already incentivse TWF instead of 2H, so that's not a big loss.

[A Fat Dragon]

Why not just switch out Advantage with Strength to Advantage with Dexterity on the Rage?

Then go Tribal Totem (As it both fits your theme, and is considered more of a “journey”) and pick a pattern such as Wolf - Eagle - Eagle (Flight can represent incredible Acrobatics)

[Spacehamster]

It makes is less MAD, because it won't need Str. Normal barbarian need Str to attack, Dex for AC and Con for HP and AC, if going unarmed.

Your version would use Dex for attack (and it would have good melee and better range than normal barbarian), AC (and with the incentive to put ASI into Dex, it'll have better AC than most barbarians) and Con (same reason as normal barbarian, but more free points, because there's no need to pump Str anymore). It would have worse Athletics, but with TWF, it won't have free hand for grapples or shoves anyway, and it would be worse with two-handed weapons, but the class would already incentivse TWF instead of 2H, so that's not a big loss.

I never said it uses DEX to attack, it uses STR to get to hit like any other barb but would get DEX to damage while raging when using two weapons.

[Requilac]

I actually could look into making something like this if you would like. I am an amateur but apparently decent homebrewer and people tend to not have too many complaints about my work (not many compliments either of course, but no news is good news I guess), so this should be something I can safely tackle. Would you like me to homebrew up this subclass? Keep in mind that the only experience I have is what is in my signature though, so you might want someone a little more wise on this matter.

[Ganymede]

Probably want to make it a weee bit stronger than the other barb subs since it is by nature unoptimal due to starting with max 15 STR(pure elves only no halfies).

Absolutely not. This is an exceptionally poor reason to bolster the power of a subclass.

That elf might lose a pip of strength, but makes up for it with a pip of dexterity, which is always useful.

"They're graceful and strong, so should add both Dex and Str to attacks" is also a preciously slim justification for giving an incredibly powerful ability.


Why not simply make an elf berserker with a woodland-type background?

[Spacehamster]

Absolutely not. This is an exceptionally poor reason to bolster the power of a subclass.

That elf might lose a pip of strength, but makes up for it with a pip of dexterity, which is always useful.

"They're graceful and strong, so should add both Dex and Str to attacks" is also a preciously slim justification for giving an incredibly powerful ability.


Why not simply make an elf berserker with a woodland-type background?

Never said that, add both to damage while raging, not to attacks hit that would be silly strong.

[Spacehamster]

I actually could look into making something like this if you would like. I am an amateur but apparently decent homebrewer and people tend to not have too many complaints about my work (not many compliments either of course, but no news is good news I guess), so this should be something I can safely tackle. Would you like me to homebrew up this subclass? Keep in mind that the only experience I have is what is in my signature though, so you might want someone a little more wise on this matter.

Sure if ya like, might make one too and post it in the thread. :)

[JackPhoenix]

I never said it uses DEX to attack, it uses STR to get to hit like any other barb but would get DEX to damage while raging when using two weapons.

Any other barbarian uses Str to hit because they use Str-based weapons.

If you use two weapons, and get extra Dex to damage, there's no reason to go Str. Finessable weapons offer the same base damage die, and doubling upon Dex instead of relying upon Str weapons reduces MAD. If I have to choose between Str 14/Dex 16 for +2 to hit and +5 to damage for the point buy cost of 12, or Str 8 (or whatever)/Dex 16 for +3 to hit and +6 to damage for 6 PB cost, the choice is clear.

[strangebloke]

Honestly this sounds a lot like the acf from 3.5 that made rage an ability that buffs Dex, at least in fluff.

Barbarians are strength based. This is enshrined in too many mechanics at this point. Barbarians do use Dex for AC, but AC isn't that important for them due to reckless attack

I would give them a "while raging, anyone who attacks you can't make opportunity attacks against you" and a "add Dex to offhand damage while raging line."

At later levels, they get a bonus to hitting multiple foes.

[Requilac]

Just so we are clear on what I am doing space hamster, I am not changing around rage rules and other barbarian features to accomadate for finesse weapons when I make the "woodland ravager", I am just going to create features which key off of and incentivise dexterity.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Strangely enough this is the subject of one of Mike Mearls happy fun time. not sure if he's worked on it more since last time tho.

[romanwas]

:smallwink:

[Spacehamster]

Any other barbarian uses Str to hit because they use Str-based weapons.

If you use two weapons, and get extra Dex to damage, there's no reason to go Str. Finessable weapons offer the same base damage die, and doubling upon Dex instead of relying upon Str weapons reduces MAD. If I have to choose between Str 14/Dex 16 for +2 to hit and +5 to damage for the point buy cost of 12, or Str 8 (or whatever)/Dex 16 for +3 to hit and +6 to damage for 6 PB cost, the choice is clear.

I think you don’t read what I type, you don’t get the DEX to damage if you attack with DEX, as with reckless and rage damage you need to attack with STR to enjoy the benefit.

[JackPhoenix]

I think you don’t read what I type, you don’t get the DEX to damage if you attack with DEX, as with reckless and rage damage you need to attack with STR to enjoy the benefit.

No, you didn't.

You've wrote "it uses STR to get to hit like any other barb". Nothing about Rage or Reckless Attack, or not getting the bonus if you don't attack with Str.

[Spacehamster]

No, you didn't.

You've wrote "it uses STR to get to hit like any other barb". Nothing about Rage or Reckless Attack, or not getting the bonus if you don't attack with Str.

-.- It uses STR to get hit like any other barb kinda hints it functions off STR tho?

[Spacehamster]

Woodland Avenger

Race - Wood elf, Avariel or High elf.

The woodland avenger is a rare breed of barbarian, they are elves that has had some deep trauma like the loss of ones tribe, family and
so on happen to them, filling them with pain and rage. This creates a volatile mix of elven grace and the reckless abandon of a wounded predator,
grim faced and determined you fight with one goal to keep winning until you get revenge for the horrible thing that happened in the past.

level 3: Whirlwind of steel - You gain the two weapon fighting style and deal half your DEX modifier(rounded up) to damage while raging as long as you hit with STR and wield
two weapons, this becomes your full DEX modifier once you hit level 11.

level 6: Rush of the kill - When you reduce an enemy to 0HP you gain your proficiency to AC to the next attack against you.

level 10: Speed of the weasel - Once per short rest you can give you and an ally you can see +10ft to movement while you rage, this speed dissapears
when the rage ends or you renew the rage.

Level 14: Rip and tear - While raging if you hit with both your weapons you deal an extra 2d6 of the type of one of your weapons do.

Just a quick example of how I picture the class.

[strangebloke]

Woodland Avenger

Race - Wood elf, Avariel or High elf.

The woodland avenger is a rare breed of barbarian, they are elves that has had some deep trauma like the loss of ones tribe, family and
so on happen to them, filling them with pain and rage. This creates a volatile mix of elven grace and the reckless abandon of a wounded predator,
grim faced and determined you fight with one goal to keep winning until you get revenge for the horrible thing that happened in the past.

level 3: Whirlwind of steel - You gain the two weapon fighting style and deal half your DEX modifier(rounded up) to damage while raging as long as you hit with STR and wield
two weapons, this becomes your full DEX modifier once you hit level 11.

level 6: Rush of the kill - When you reduce an enemy to 0HP you gain your proficiency to AC to the next attack against you.

level 10: Speed of the weasel - Once per short rest you can give you and an ally you can see +10ft to movement while you rage, this speed dissapears
when the rage ends or you renew the rage.

Level 14: Rip and tear - While raging if you hit with both your weapons you deal an extra 2d6 of the type of one of your weapons do.

Just a quick example of how I picture the class.

I mean... it isn't overpowered.

Rather, it's very good, but in such a boring way...

What is this guy's theme? Like, he's an elf, ok. We could already do that. He's a two-weapon fighter. Sure, that's been viable for a while. Good with a rogue multiclass. He gets... extra AC? Sometimes? Grants move speed? What's the unifying theme? Why does this subclass need to exist? What's stopping you from running a woodelf rogue 2/Barbarian x? Wouldn't that do everything you want this to do?

[Ganymede]

I'm really not sure why you need a custom primal path when what you envision for it only involves generic boosts to damage and AC. I mean, why do we even need unique mechanics for a mere extra pip to damage?

Where are the ribbons? Where is the coherent theme? Where is the reason for this path to exist?

[Spacehamster]

I'm really not sure why you need a custom primal path when what you envision for it only involves generic boosts to damage and AC. I mean, why do we even need unique mechanics for a mere extra pip to damage?

Where are the ribbons? Where is the coherent theme? Where is the reason for this path to exist?

Barbarians don’t get ribbons? All primal paths gets mechanical benefits either defensive or offensive on all there levels except maybe the totem one? It exists to make dw barbarian viable without multi classing?

[Vogie]

I saw the Bush Strider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22982841&postcount=7), a homebrew ranger subclass that has a feature that is effectively a dexterity-based rage.

[Ganymede]

It exists to make dw barbarian viable without multi classing?

And there's your problem.

Your primal path exists to fix the dual wielding rules. That is simply not a good enough reason for me to care about some hackneyed group of angry elves.

The next time you start working on a homebrew primal path, ask yourself "How can I put a unique spin on the rage that fuels a barbarian?"

[strangebloke]

Barbarians don’t get ribbons? All primal paths gets mechanical benefits either defensive or offensive on all there levels except maybe the totem one? It exists to make dw barbarian viable without multi classing?

Au contraire, they get lots of ribbons. Zealot not requiring material components to ressurect is 80% a ribbon. Bear barbarian getting double carry capacity? Ribbon.

If you want to do a duel wielding barbarian with high dex, my advice is:

Assassin 3, Zealot X. You are sneaky, murderous, and you have to use finesse weapons to get sneak attack. Brutal Critical is awesome with assassinate, and you are filled with zeal not by a god, but by your quest for vengeance.

You don't really even fall far behind the barbarian for damage
Level 5:
1d12+4+2+1d12+4+2=25
vs.
2d6+1d6+4+2+1d6+2=22

Level 8:
1d12+5+2+1d12+4+2=25
vs
2d6+1d6+4+2+1d6+4+2+1d6+2=31.5

GWM skews things, but so does your assassinate ability.

It's pretty fricking badass, IMO.