Forge Cleric AC optimization - worth it?

[Waazraath]

Take 6 levels of forge cleric. Full plate, shield (AC 20). +1 from Blessing of the Forge, +1 from Soul of the Forge. At level 7, go fighter, for the defense fighting style, for another +1. Add two levels of War wizard, for a perrmanent +2 AC as a reaction. Optional: cast Shield of faith as a bonus action at the beginning of combat.

After 9, simply continue cleric up to 20, reach cleric 17 for 9th level spells. Only loose 1 spell level, being a bit behind on highest spell known seems less important, clerics are good with upcasting lower level spells like Aid, Spirit Guardians or Spiritual Weapon.

Is this worth it? AC 22 (24) at level 6, 23 (25) at 7, 25 (27) at 9. This is high. Lots of monsters you encounter at this level will only hit on 17 and higher. But it takes a lot of investment. And a turtle is not a thread.

Could be a nice control build, maybe? With Spirit Guardians (half move, damage, but no +2 AC from SoF), and / or shield master feat? Or heavy armor mastery feat, for even less damage? *edit* forgot to mention sentinel feat.

Thoughts?

[Ventruenox]

It's certainly an option. In practice, you may find that an active Spirit Guardians spell combined with the Dodge action may be more effective.

[HolyAvenger7]

You definitely want the 17th level capstone for the Forge Cleric, but would dipping 2 in Fighter be better to get the action surge or 3 to add the archtype benefits? More attacks eliminates the threat sooner, thus less damage.

If you only go 2 fighter there are several 1 dips that are beneficial:

put one into Warlock for Hexblade, or one Paladin for Lay on Hand or even 18 cleric for the additional channel divinity...

[Vorpal Crowbar]

Is this worth it? AC 22 (24) at level 6, 23 (25) at 7, 25 (27) at 9. This is high. Lots of monsters you encounter at this level will only hit on 17 and higher. But it takes a lot of investment. And a turtle is not a thread.

Could be a nice control build, maybe? With Spirit Guardians (half move, damage, but no +2 AC from SoF), and / or shield master feat? Or heavy armor mastery feat, for even less damage? *edit* forgot to mention sentinel feat.

Thoughts?

If you are playing level 9:

Short-cut to 27 AC

Cleric of the Forge - 1-6
then Warlock Hexblade 1,
then back to Forge 7,8.



AC=22, but when you get hit, BING! Shield, prepared all the time = 27 AC

And you Hexblade Curse crit 19-20 and Green Flame Blade fire 1d8 + Divine Strike 1D8 fire damage
and you keep all your domain spells 1,3,5, and 7!

VC

[strangebloke]

AC isn't really worth it against level-appropriate foes unless you optimize for it.

That said, most of your foes won't really be 'level-appropriate.' A few boss monsters will be way over-cr-ed, and many will be trash minions that have crappy attack reasons. For this reason, if your AC is still 13 at 20th level, you'll feel it when a massive horde of CR two minions washes over you.

This is why shield is so good. It's extra AC, right when you need it. Your build is good, honestly. I thought I saw a hole or two in it, but this is all good.

[Foxhound438]

the issue comes when you happen upon things that say "dex save". Dragons come to mind, as do traps (which appear commonly in dungeons).... And it is "Dungeons" and "Dragons", after all.

[Waazraath]

It's certainly an option. In practice, you may find that an active Spirit Guardians spell combined with the Dodge action may be more effective.

True, also possible. Damage from Spirit Guardians / bonus action Spiritual Weapon could still be acceptable. Still, probably a bit too passive for me.


You definitely want the 17th level capstone for the Forge Cleric, but would dipping 2 in Fighter be better to get the action surge or 3 to add the archtype benefits? More attacks eliminates the threat sooner, thus less damage.

If you only go 2 fighter there are several 1 dips that are beneficial:

put one into Warlock for Hexblade, or one Paladin for Lay on Hand or even 18 cleric for the additional channel divinity...

I love the fighter 2 or 3 dip. In this case though, I prefer War Wizard 2cause of the goal of this build (AC optimization) and other Wizard goodies (Absorb Elements, Shield (also for AC!) a Familiar, Longstrider, and a small bonus to initiative. Problem is though that both Shield and Absorb elements require sometic components, so without Warcaster you cant always cast them. Then again, at some point you prolly want that feat anyway. Fighter 2 definitely is an option though, and agree with wanting the level 17 goodies.


If you are playing level 9:

Short-cut to 27 AC

Cleric of the Forge - 1-6
then Warlock Hexblade 1,
then back to Forge 7,8.



AC=22, but when you get hit, BING! Shield, prepared all the time = 27 AC

And you Hexblade Curse crit 19-20 and Green Flame Blade fire 1d8 + Divine Strike 1D8 fire damage
and you keep all your domain spells 1,3,5, and 7!

VC

I considered this, but I don't want to rely soley on shield; you only have so much 1st level spells. Also, to use it you immediate need Warcaster to profit, while the War Wizard's Arcane Deflection doesn't require a free hand.

Hexblade is great though, can see this work as well. And yes, as soon as you get the level of Warlock, or Wizard, Green Flame Blade is great. Free extra damage, situational much more damage.



AC isn't really worth it against level-appropriate foes unless you optimize for it.

That said, most of your foes won't really be 'level-appropriate.' A few boss monsters will be way over-cr-ed, and many will be trash minions that have crappy attack reasons. For this reason, if your AC is still 13 at 20th level, you'll feel it when a massive horde of CR two minions washes over you.

This is why shield is so good. It's extra AC, right when you need it. Your build is good, honestly. I thought I saw a hole or two in it, but this is all good.

Thnx!


the issue comes when you happen upon things that say "dex save". Dragons come to mind, as do traps (which appear commonly in dungeons).... And it is "Dungeons" and "Dragons", after all.

With Wizard (and Warcaster): Absorb Elements; with Arcane Deflection: +4 on (dex) saves; with Shield Master feat: add bonus to ref saves. All of this should help, right?


Forgot to mention: in a game with magic items, at some point you'll find an armor or shield +1 (or more); the bonus from lvl 1 Forge Cleric can be put on the item that isn't magic. That way, AC can get even higher.

[strangebloke]

Forgot to mention: in a game with magic items, at some point you'll find an armor or shield +1 (or more); the bonus from lvl 1 Forge Cleric can be put on the item that isn't magic. That way, AC can get even higher.

Remember too, that adamantine armor is better than a +1 and can still be buffed.

[Waazraath]

Remember too, that adamantine armor is better than a +1 and can still be buffed.

Nice point!

[jaappleton]

By dipping Warlock, Wizard, or Sorcerer, you open up the pandora’s box of magic items.

Cloak of Protection, Ring Of Protection, etc are all useable by anyone.

But the Staff Of Power adds +2 to AC.

Staff of Defense is useable by anyone, and adds +1 AC and let’s you cast Shield 5X per long rest.

[GorogIrongut]

By dipping Warlock, Wizard, or Sorcerer, you open up the pandora’s box of magic items.

Cloak of Protection, Ring Of Protection, etc are all useable by anyone.

But the Staff Of Power adds +2 to AC.

Staff of Defense is useable by anyone, and adds +1 AC and let’s you cast Shield 5X per long rest.

If you put 3 levels into Fighter so you can go Eldritch Knight, does that make you capable of using the Staff of Defense? You are using the wizard spell list.

[jaappleton]

If you put 3 levels into Fighter so you can go Eldritch Knight, does that make you capable of using the Staff of Defense? You are using the wizard spell list.

Anyone can use Staff of Defense.

If you're referring instead to the Staff of Power, I'd rule no, personally.

[mephnick]

If you put 3 levels into Fighter so you can go Eldritch Knight, does that make you capable of using the Staff of Defense? You are using the wizard spell list.

I believe if the item lists a class restriction you have to be that class, not simple be able to cast off its spell list.