Has anyone gotten the Conjuration sphere to work well for them? (SoP)

[SangoProduction]

I mean, aside from Magical Companion, which can be easily abused to effectively cast basically all the talents, in a few levels, even if not at the greatest power (as such, offloading all the support abilities on to magical companions tends to be super efficient). Hell, for support and healing, take puppet or familiar companion template, and have free access to them on a whim, using a pool of resources not related to yours.

I exclude Magical Companion, because it can just be really freaking cheesy. And obviously it works. Slap spell casting on anything, and it works.

So, aside from that, have people been able to make Conjuration Sphere creatures work for them?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Assuming this is about Spheres of Power, but you didn’t specify so apologies if I’m wrong.

What problems are you having with it specifically? Conjuration is generally considered one of the strongest spheres even post-nerf.

Also, you can’t cheese Magical Companion. When you gain the talent, you apply it to one conjured creature and pick the talents and tradition, which don’t change outside of gaining more when its caster level increases.

[SangoProduction]

Assuming this is about Spheres of Power, but you didn’t specify so apologies if I’m wrong.

What problems are you having with it specifically? Conjuration is generally considered one of the strongest spheres even post-nerf.

Also, you can’t cheese Magical Companion. When you gain the talent, you apply it to one conjured creature and pick the talents and tradition, which don’t change outside of gaining more when its caster level increases.

Yeah. I'll make it more explicit that the conjuration sphere being about spheres of power.

I don't have a problem with it. I just wanted to see if and how people have gotten it to work.

But, yeah. You spend one talent for Extra Companion, which grants the Magical Companion form for free, which grants a companion of HD 3/4 your CL+1. Ah. I missed that it only has 1/2 HD as CL, which means its CL is only 3/8 of your level +1. Not nearly as bad as if it were 3/4 your level +1. Anyway, regardless, it gains a feat every odd HD, which can be spent on extra magical talents. So, for one talent, you've now got 2, if you're CL of at least 3.

Given 10 levels of Incanter (no specialization), each summon is HD 8, which has 4 feats + casting tradition (if a DM would allow it, lol). So...has access to 4x the number of talents he invests in getting them, before traditions. Yeah. It could easily be cheesed. (It never gains class levels, so it doesn't get talents from CL increases. But if that's your interpretation, then 8x number of talents.)

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Given 10 levels of Incanter (no specialization), each summon is HD 8, which has 4 feats + casting tradition (if a DM would allow it, lol). So...has access to 4x the number of talents he invests in getting them, before traditions. Yeah. It could easily be cheesed. (It never gains class levels, so it doesn't get talents from CL increases. But if that's your interpretation, then 8x number of talents.)

Hadn’t read the talent in a while and thought it learned new talents as you leveled up. My bad! But yeah, DDS have said they regret designing the Incanter the way they did, and cheese like that’s a big part of it. Conjuration’s strong, but having 10 extra talents and possible specialization is ridiculous with it.

[SangoProduction]

Hadn’t read the talent in a while and thought it learned new talents as you leveled up. My bad! But yeah, DDS have said they regret designing the Incanter the way they did, and cheese like that’s a big part of it. Conjuration’s strong, but having 10 extra talents and possible specialization is ridiculous with it.

I mean. Any full caster gets 4x their talents for the investment at level 10. I chose it because it was the first to come to mind. But yeah. It gets like 3 talents level 1, and 2 talents every level thereafter (if everything from the class were spent on talents). So yeah. Easily can get basically every non-conjuration/alteration talent of note.

Of course, as noted, only getting 3/8 of your CL+1 as CL for your creatures. So, that isn't actually nearly as bad of cheese as I thought it was. Still, though.

OH MY FREAKING GOD! GOSH DARN IT!. NVM. It gets 3/4 of its HD as CL, with the mage companion archetype. Which means it gets 9/16s, or about 1/2 of your CL as its CL. Which is much more notable with 3 of these guys at level 1.

[Pyromancer999]

There may be a bit of an exaggeration as to how powerful the Mage archetype/Magical Companion talent are, as four talents in exchange for all its feat slots isn't necessarily the most conducive to a companion staying alive, so while it is a good deal at the lower levels, as SangoProductions pointed out, you're essentially exchanging one talent at full CL for multiple at ~1/2 CL in the long run with a Mage companion, though these are also now dependent upon a companion that is much squishier than you, due to it having the same type of HD, but only possessing 3/4 as you do, as well as lacking any combat defense unless you spend more talents on it, which reduces the amount of net gain, though it would likely be a bit better for a companion for out-of-combat only usage.

Edit: Okay, frack me, just saw Staff-wielding Companion talent, which boosts a Mage archetype companion to essentially a Midcaster relative to your level in the long run (assuming a companion specializes in a sphere) in exchange for an extra talent, which does boost the overall effectiveness of the trade. Does need a bit more of a tradeoff, but can see how that would be a bit nuts.

[SangoProduction]

There may be a bit of an exaggeration as to how powerful the Mage archetype/Magical Companion talent are, as four talents in exchange for all its feat slots isn't necessarily the most conducive to a companion staying alive, so while it is a good deal at the lower levels, as SangoProductions pointed out, you're essentially exchanging one talent at full CL for multiple at ~1/2 CL in the long run with a Mage companion, though these are also now dependent upon a companion that is much squishier than you, due to it having the same type of HD, but only possessing 3/4 as you do, as well as lacking any combat defense unless you spend more talents on it, which reduces the amount of net gain, though it would likely be a bit better for a companion for out-of-combat only usage.

Edit: Okay, frack me, just saw Staff-wielding Companion talent, which boosts a Mage archetype companion to essentially a Midcaster relative to your level in the long run (assuming a companion specializes in a sphere) in exchange for an extra talent, which does boost the overall effectiveness of the trade. Does need a bit more of a tradeoff, but can see how that would be a bit nuts.

Oh right. lol. Yeah. Mage companion boosts it to 3/4. Then staff wielding grants +1/3, which means over 12 HD or so, it gains 13 CL (in a specialized sphere, yes). This is achieved at level 15. So 13/15 of your level as CL, and a bunch of talents, in exchange for 2 talents. Not freaking bad lol.

Anyway. Not the point of the topic.