As a DM, how do you handle the math of it all?

[The Aboleth]

Movement. Damage rolls. Challenge ratings. Initiative orders. Experience points. Rolling d6+8 - 12 and dividing by your Wisdom modifier.

There's a lot of math in D&D, some in places I didn't expect. As someone who is not very good at math and quickly gets overwhelmed by it, the prospect of DMing a long-running campaign and keeping track of all this is quite intimidating to me.

In the past, I've only DM'd a couple one-shots for mostly beginner players; now, however, I'm being recruited to DM a potentially months-spanning quest for a mix of newbies and veterans (though the veterans don't have much experience with 5e, as far as I know). Since the one-shots were low-key affairs for a group of players who were completely new to the game, I didn't have to worry about things like experience points or be too concerned if I messed up a damage roll or two. This time, though, I feel a greater responsibility to get things *right,* and I don't want to "eyeball" or "handwave" things just because players can't see behind the screen. I want to do better, but I'm scared that my poor math skills will disrupt the flow of an otherwise well-paced adventure.

So, for my other math-challenged DMs out there: How do you handle the math part of the game? Are there any tips or tricks you'd like to share that have improved your experience with managing all those scary numbers?

In particular, I'd like help on:

1.) Determining CRs of encounters (the DM Handbook's explanation was hard for me to follow)
2.) Tracking XP
3.) Any tips for quickly determining damage rolls (spreadsheets? A program that does it for me? Train an animal to use an abacus?)
4.) Any tips for determining damage rolls without having to waste time looking up what class uses what dice (I assume repetition eventually solves this issue, or a quick cheat sheet will do the trick, but I'm curious if anyone has other ideas)
5.) Any tips for other numbers or math-related thing I've left out that you have struggled with before

I should mention, as well: Our sessions will be in-person, so using a program like roll20 is PROBABLY out of the question unless you think using such a program could still be viable in an in-person environment. I'm open to any and all suggestions, really, but I know some suggestions will be more geared toward and online-only game and wanted to clarify that is not the type of game we'll be running.

Thanks in advance for your help, everyone!

[BeefGood]

Don’t track XP. Characters gain a level when you say so, every one or two sessions at first.
For monsters and NPC use the average damage which is given in the stat block.
Initiative is stressful at first because you have to collect numbers from all the players, some of whom have dropped their dice on the floor and others who are yelling in your ear, and then sequence all those numbers , then roll for the groups of monsters and put them in the sequence....don’t do that. Go clockwise round the table every battle. Put the monsters somewhere in the middle. A predictable initiative sequence might actually help the new players be prepared when their turn comes. You can do initiative “right” later when you get more comfortable.

[Tetrasodium]

Movement. Damage rolls. Challenge ratings. Initiative orders. Experience points. Rolling d6+8 - 12 and dividing by your Wisdom modifier.

There's a lot of math in D&D, some in places I didn't expect. As someone who is not very good at math and quickly gets overwhelmed by it, the prospect of DMing a long-running campaign and keeping track of all this is quite intimidating to me.

In the past, I've only DM'd a couple one-shots for mostly beginner players; now, however, I'm being recruited to DM a potentially months-spanning quest for a mix of newbies and veterans (though the veterans don't have much experience with 5e, as far as I know). Since the one-shots were low-key affairs for a group of players who were completely new to the game, I didn't have to worry about things like experience points or be too concerned if I messed up a damage roll or two. This time, though, I feel a greater responsibility to get things *right,* and I don't want to "eyeball" or "handwave" things just because players can't see behind the screen. I want to do better, but I'm scared that my poor math skills will disrupt the flow of an otherwise well-paced adventure.

So, for my other math-challenged DMs out there: How do you handle the math part of the game? Are there any tips or tricks you'd like to share that have improved your experience with managing all those scary numbers?

In particular, I'd like help on:

1.) Determining CRs of encounters (the DM Handbook's explanation was hard for me to follow)
2.) Tracking XP
3.) Any tips for quickly determining damage rolls (spreadsheets? A program that does it for me? Train an animal to use an abacus?)
4.) Any tips for determining damage rolls without having to waste time looking up what class uses what dice (I assume repetition eventually solves this issue, or a quick cheat sheet will do the trick, but I'm curious if anyone has other ideas)
5.) Any tips for other numbers or math-related thing I've left out that you have struggled with before

I should mention, as well: Our sessions will be in-person, so using a program like roll20 is PROBABLY out of the question unless you think using such a program could still be viable in an in-person environment. I'm open to any and all suggestions, really, but I know some suggestions will be more geared toward and online-only game and wanted to clarify that is not the type of game we'll be running.

Thanks in advance for your help, everyone!



I run combat & initiativekinda like this (http://theangrygm.com/manage-combat-like-a-dolphin/). As to determining initiative myself... monsters & such get thrown in around 10 or so unless I feel like sticking one elsewhere will mix things up in an interesting way. Basically it is the side initiative described on dmg270. I also include max hp & AC of the creatures battling the PC's for ease of tracking. I generally try to stick close to the max hp of creatures for damage taken until they die, but I don't stress out too much & do things like round things off for quick mathing or decide an opponent has better/worse hp/ac/whatever if I think it will be more interesting.

as for experience, the creatures your players encountered are all listed on paper, just go down & add up the total then divide by the number of players. If you don't want to deal with experience, you can use the stuff on dmg261 for milestone & levels without xp stuff.

I've seen others who count down everyone's initiative ("ok who has >25 initiative... 20-25... 15-20.... 10-15... 5-10... less than 5?" & it works for them, but it's just too much effort for me as a gm & drives me batty as a player because it wastes so much time.

[guachi]

{Scrubbed}

If you don't want to have to deal with all the addition for damage, etc., you can always take average damage. It's not as sexy but if it's monsters attacking and you're the DM it might be easier. An alternative is to have That-One-Guy who's good in math add everything up quickly for the table.

I've also seen my younger (Junior High) players and others when they roll lots of dice, like for a fireball, sort their dice into groups that add up to 10. I'd probably do this, too, but with damage that uses four or more dice I just take average. I can't be bothered to roll that many dice as a DM.

EDIT: For XP I always award it at the end of the session and players either use their phone's calculator (it's what I use to add the XP up in the first place) or just add by hand the old-fashioned way. It's the end of the session so the time factor is less critical. I also keep track of PC's XP so after they add their XP they tell it to me and I write it down on my tracking sheet of paper.

[The Aboleth]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

I bet you're fun at parties.

Thanks for the suggestions, though.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Regarding initiative, delegate. Assign one player to gather the rolls for each character and present them to you in a sorted, written list.

[Nidgit]

Your players should be tracking their own HP, movement, damage dice, and all that, so they're the ones telling you how much damage they're doing. You can repeat that to affirm that's the amount done, or just do it by narration if you'd prefer. If there's some resistance, vulnerability, or damage reduction involved, just make a note of that as you narrate the action.

XP is distributed at the end of a session and can be categorized by CR. Your players won't mind chatting as you tally it up and then divide it, so feel free to use a calculator and just focus on it then. The only important parts, then, are tracking how many CR x enemies are defeated as you play and factoring in any bonus XP you want. Or just ignore XP and reward levels at milestones.

Kobold Fight Club is a really useful tool for planning encounters. Even then, though, PCs can usually handle a single Hard/Deadly enemy with reason, but will struggle with 'manageable' hordes particularly at low levels.

For Initiative, order everyone highest to lowest on a piece of paper. Preroll monster HP or use averages, and write that HP next to them. As they take damage, cross off the former HP and write the new total next to it. Just be sure to have the monsters' stats available for reference. If there are more than 4-5 enemies, consider having them act in groups to bring it down to near the same number of turns per round as the PCs.

[JPicasso]

Take a tip from Rune Hammer games(formerly Drunkens and Dragons) Don't fret over anything.

Use a room DC. For instance, early encounters would be low DC, like 10 or 11. What does it take to jump the pit trap? 11, Climb the walls? 11. Hit the goblin AC? 11. No sweat. Give the goblins d6+1 weapons, whatever they are, and go with it.

Now, they make it to the BBEG lair? Room DC of, 16!
What does it take to avoid the lava trap? 16. Climb the slick walls in the heat of major combat? 16. Hit the exact same goblins from before (but now they are frenzied because of proximity to their leaders? 16. Goblins still have d6+1 weapons, larger enemies might have d8+1.

Bam. Easy peasy.

With experience you'll be able to feel how beefing up the enemies will work. Maybe some enemies have spells, or two attacks, or give each other extra damage. You might even see how the CR works out, and how well the players handle things. But if you're starting out, don't sweat the details.

I will say from exp that this works well if you are drowning in details. I had a boss fight planned out, but ran out of time for the earlier encounters. Running the game like this until the boss room saved me some major headache. Have fun!

[Laserlight]

1.) Determining CRs of encounters (the DM Handbook's explanation was hard for me to follow)
2.) Tracking XP
3.) Any tips for quickly determining damage rolls (spreadsheets? A program that does it for me? Train an animal to use an abacus?)
4.) Any tips for determining damage rolls without having to waste time looking up what class uses what dice (I assume repetition eventually solves this issue, or a quick cheat sheet will do the trick, but I'm curious if anyone has other ideas)
5.) Any tips for other numbers or math-related thing I've left out that you have struggled with before

What I'd actually advise is just do the arithmentic. Practice really does help. However...
1. Use Kobold Fight Club to detemine encounter difficulty
2. KFC gives you the XP per encounter. Tell your players the total and let them divide it.
3 and 4. I'm not clear why these are two separate questions, but the answer is that your players should have their hit dice, attack dice and such all noted on their character sheet. The player who won't put it on a charsheet is the player who wastes three times as much time as anyone else, trying to figure out what they want to do. Insist on a charsheet; if that guy won't do it, ask one of tmore competent players to do it for him. Then you (or the host) keep the sheet, hand it to him at the start of the session and get it back at the end.
5. If I have a lot of monsters , when I make up the roster I'll denote their HP by a line of bubbles at 5hp per bubble, usually in groups of 2 or 4. If the monster has 37HP, it gets 7 bubbles OO OO OO O. Then when I'm applying damage, I round it to 5s. Example: Let's say a barbarian does 6+8+5 damage, I mark off 1 + 2 + 1 bubbles rather than do the arithmetic to say "6+8+5=19". This is particularly helpful when your monster have a lot of HP--instead of "okay, that was 27 damage and he's already taken 136, that makes, uh...", you just mark off five more bubble.

For initiative, just use the modifier, no roll. If you have copies of the charsheets, you'll know those scores in advance, so you can make an initiative list for each encounter when you're preparing it. If all the monsters have the same initiative, though, you might want to split them into two groups.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I handle it by doing the math.

[MrStabby]

Prepwork and sometimes a laptop help.

Prepwork means I know things like the XP for every encounter. It means i know the HP for each creature in those encounters. Some things like damage I will need to work in on the fly, or easier to get the players to do so.

Laptop is also a useful tool for big fights. I use a spreadsheet to roll the dice, add the bonuses and show the damage. Because I can also store a statblock there with all the appropriate abilities it is pretty useful as a reference as well.

Practice. Mental arithmetic is a skill and is will quickly come back to you if you practice.

[OldTrees1]

It is a lot of math. However they say practice makes perfect. That is especially true when it is something YOU want to get done rather than something assigned to you by others.

Even if you are "someone that is not as good at math", you might find yourself getting very good at adding D&D numbers.

1.) Determining CRs of encounters (the DM Handbook's explanation was hard for me to follow)
Yeah CR calculation in 5E is harder and the underlying math is on shakier ground. I have been googling "5E Monster CR calculator". There are a few decent ones readily available.

However, since I don't trust the grounding of the 5E CR formula, I try to develop some intuitions to cover where the formula fails.

2.) Tracking XP
5E made the DM's side of this easy. Add the XP together (at the end of the session?) and divide by the number of players. The players will track their own xp from there.

3.) Any tips for quickly determining damage rolls (spreadsheets? A program that does it for me? Train an animal to use an abacus?)
4.) Any tips for determining damage rolls without having to waste time looking up what class uses what dice (I assume repetition eventually solves this issue, or a quick cheat sheet will do the trick, but I'm curious if anyone has other ideas)

Yes. Start by writing down the enemies into stat blocks you can read. This makes it really easy to see the attack (attack bonus/save, range/area, and damage roll) like "+4 melee 1d8+2d6+2" or "Dexterity Save DC 13 vs 15ft cone of 5d4 fire".

Then roll both the attack and damage dice at the same time. Or ask them to roll their saving throws while you roll the damage dice. Then use what arithmetic shortcuts you find work for you. I tend to group lots of small numbers (like from a 8d6 fireball) into groups that add up to 10 and then that tells me the sum really quickly.

[The Aboleth]

Thanks for the advice so far, everyone!

A couple people have mentioned Kobold Fight Club. What, exactly, is it? I've never heard of it before, and a (very) quick Google search only describes it as an "Encounter Builder" with no added context. I assume I just plug monsters into a table and it spits out the CR and stuff?

[DnDegenerates]

My home game just does averages for initiative. It makes it quite a bit quicker actually. And I just choose whether monsters or players win ties based on the circumstances.

This groups monsters. So tracking hp is easy on a dollar store notepad.

[Tetrasodium]

Thanks for the advice so far, everyone!

A couple people have mentioned Kobold Fight Club. What, exactly, is it? I've never heard of it before, and a (very) quick Google search only describes it as an "Encounter Builder" with no added context. I assume I just plug monsters into a table and it spits out the CR and stuff?

https://kobold.club

There are a few others like it.

Also Xanathar's guide to everything has a pretty good rule of thumb guide for encounter building on 89-90ish. At lower levels, especially with newer players, you can very easilyt kill players with a single crit. At level 1 no big deal, change the name & have them come running to help the sounds they heard. at higher levels, there is always something willing to solve (http://keith-baker.com/the-cost-of-a-life/) that problem to those willing to pay the price.

Ifd you are completely new, starting with something like lost mines of phandilvar (LMoP) is not a bad way of getting going till you are ready to start spreading your terrifying skeletal wings of campaign creation upon your favorite victims... err.... Players :D

Don't be afraid to go off script to fit what the players are doing, you will all have more fun that way.

[Raphite1]

Use a calculator?

[Chugger]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}
If you don't want to have to deal with all the addition for damage, etc., you can always take average damage. It's not as sexy but if it's monsters attacking and you're the DM it might be easier. An alternative is to have That-One-Guy who's good in math add everything up quickly for the table.

I've also seen my younger (Junior High) players and others when they roll lots of dice, like for a fireball, sort their dice into groups that add up to 10. I'd probably do this, too, but with damage that uses four or more dice I just take average. I can't be bothered to roll that many dice as a DM.

EDIT: For XP I always award it at the end of the session and players either use their phone's calculator (it's what I use to add the XP up in the first place) or just add by hand the old-fashioned way. It's the end of the session so the time factor is less critical. I also keep track of PC's XP so after they add their XP they tell it to me and I write it down on my tracking sheet of paper.

There are highly intelligent people who have "math dyslexia" or processing disorders - or ADD where math is the non-preferred area - and even if they could go back in time, they wouldn't learn a stinking, effing thing more!

At least you try to help and offer suggestions, but if you have even a mote of class in your soul, you'll go back and edit out that first line. You obviously have no idea what it's like having a "learning issue" or a "mental block" or a formally diagnosed learning problem - and it can be hell. People kill themselves regularly because of the shame and hell heaped upon them - they need understanding {Scrubbed}

You're just lucky. Now learn what empathy is.

[Afrodactyl]

1. I use an online CR calculator to ballpark my encounters. I'm not sure if I can post links, but if you Google "dhmstark encounter calculator" you'll find the one that I use.

2. I just milestone experience and give my players levels when I feel that I've earned them.

3. For monsters, if you feel rolling is taking too long, you can use the average that is in the creatures stat block.

4. For players, they should be the ones keeping track of how much damage they do. But if it helps, jot down their modifiers for their main attacks (dex/strength/whatever) and then you just have to see what they roll.

5. At the start of a combat, I make a note of all the initiative rolls and put them in order so I can just work my way down the list. I also have everyone's AC and passive perception written down so I know straight away which attacks hit, which players spot the thing, etc.

I also note down all the pages in the MM that I'll need for that session so I can go straight to them rather than searching every time. I also note down the damage that each player does to a monster and add up rather than trying to subtract it from the total HP.

[Innocent_bystan]

I'll add my own recommendation for Kobold Fight Club to the stack.

I don't hand out xp per encounter: I feel the milestone xp works perfectly.

I also make it a priority to minimize the amount of dice rolls on my side of the screen. 5e has passive perception, which is 10 + your perception modifier. You can use this mechanic to create whatever passive score you want. This way you, as the DM, always have a static DC and the players get to roll to beat it. This really speeds up a lot of skill checks. And players like rolling dice, so that's a definite plus. And you don't have to calculate as much.

As for Hp: I don't subtract damage from the max hp of a monster, I add damage received. I find that adding is faster than subtracting and if players glance at my notepad (I don't always use a screen), they can't see the remaining hp. It also allows you to fudge hp a bit more easily, when necessary.

I also make groups of 10 when adding dice. It's not necessarily faster, but I don't have to start over when I get interrupted.

[StoicLeaf]

1.) Determining CRs of encounters (the DM Handbook's explanation was hard for me to follow)
With regards to making your own monsters: you'll have to sit down and just get to grips with the system the book provides you with. Keep in mind that, the higher you go in levels, the more the system becomes inaccurate at providing a good challenge; it can't account for every party setup, nor for magic items. This means that often, the CR you come up with (or even the one printed in the MM) doesn't really make sense. I think one of the best examples to demonstrate this is the quickling. If you have a caster with sleep or something of that vein, it's an easier fight than having just melee. An alternative is to just take stat blocks from the books and reskin them.
With regards to the CR of encounters: erm, all you do is add up the xp values and multiply by the party number variable and then compare this to the party's xp value. If you don't like this approach, I can recommend the UA encounter builder. It isn't as finely tuned as when you do it yourself but it's really straight forward.



2.) Tracking XP
You have the xp values of fights and stuff from your prep work. Use a calculator if you don't like doing math.



3.) Any tips for quickly determining damage rolls (spreadsheets? A program that does it for me? Train an animal to use an abacus?)
If you have access to excel, you could make yourself a simple spreadsheet to roll damage for you at the press of a button. Will require you to set it up before the session, though. Programs and even a smart dog licking an abacus will either require setup time or on site delay. Pick what you want to live with and hunt down an app that'll do that for you!



4.) Any tips for determining damage rolls without having to waste time looking up what class uses what dice (I assume repetition eventually solves this issue, or a quick cheat sheet will do the trick, but I'm curious if anyone has other ideas)
I'm confused by this. If you're having to tell your player "roll 1d10+4" then you should be looking for a different group to play with. Players are in charge of their own goddamned chars, if they can't find the decency to learn this little tiny piece of the game then they don't deserve you spending HOURS of your life preparing stuff for them.
You might be referring to monsters, but once again, you need to do prep work. Have a sheet of paper (or incorporate it into your excel spreadsheet!) with the appropriate stats!



5.) Any tips for other numbers or math-related thing I've left out that you have struggled with before
Something I've considered using for a completely different purpose, but might help you here, is to preroll everything. 40 attack rolls, 40 damage rolls for each die that'll be making an appearance.

As a sidenote, regarding the "fudging of dice":
I find you need it. I think that if an encounter is too easy (the appetiser of the evening) or way past your PCs pay grade (I told you there was an irritated ancient dragon in there!) then you may as well just roll it out as quickly as possible as the outcome is pretty clear. For fights that are supposed to challenge your players, however .. I want those to be exciting. But sometimes the dice just don't wanna cooperate. For the sake of entertainment, I'll fudge dice.

[Wryte]

One great trick for tracking initiative that I picked up from a DM I played with in AL is to keep a stack of notecards in your DM supplies. Have one for each PC and NPC with their name on it, and write their initiative on it whenever it's rolled (if you know what encounters you're going to be throwing at your players, you can even roll NPC initiatives ahead of time), then sort the cards in order of initiative and cycle through them during play. You can also keep track of NPC HP on their cards, and any other notes you need regarding their abilities (including stuff like PC's passive Perception) so you don't have to have the Monster Manual open next to you the whole time, flipping back and forth between pages.

https://i.imgur.com/owsPrYY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9BHMAAQ.jpg

Another way to simplify things, when I have my players fighting multiple combat encounters in succession (such as different rooms of a dungeon) I keep the same initiative order, and just pick up from whoever would have been next wherever the last round of combat left off.

When running a large group of enemies, like a horde of goblins, I'll divide them up into "squads" of 3 or so who all act on the same initiative.

XP: I don't bother. I declare when the group levels up whenever I feel it's appropriate. This keeps the entire party on the same page rather than letting some players fall behind due to missed sessions, and means that I don't have to build encounters based on what will give my players meaningful XP gains. It also means I avoid the godawful XP hike in 2nd tier.

CR: The thing about CR is that it's just an estimate of how troublesome a monster is, and can be wildly off depending on many factors, including party composition, environment, and especially how smarty you play them; it's already something of an eyeball value, despite the calculations and formulas behind determining it. Earlier in the story arc we're currently playing, I held a party of seven 5th level characters at bay for something like six or seven rounds of combat (and downed three of them) with a CR 3 Archer, a CR 2 Illusionist, and a CR 1/4 Scout by having a fight take place in a sewer full of cover and flanking routes for the NPCs to take advantage of. Don't be afraid to adjust a creature's CR on the fly, either. There have been a number of times that I've given creatures a quick HP buff because the party chewed through them too easily, or knocked a damage die off a monster that was dishing out a bit too much.

I know you said you want to "do it right" and "avoid handwaving," but in my estimation, handwaving is part of DMing right. As DM, your highest responsibility is to make sure that your players are having fun, which frequently means going a little off the rule rails when it suits the needs of the table. After all, if your players wanted a perfect number-crunching, rules-to-the-letter experience, they could be playing a video game with a computer DM that never deviates from the letter of the rules. Your job as DM is to know when and where to fudge the rules or story to improve your players' experience. That imperfection is exactly the edge that we provide over a perfect computer DM.

[Lombra]

1.) Determining CRs of encounters (the DM Handbook's explanation was hard for me to follow)
2.) Tracking XP
3.) Any tips for quickly determining damage rolls (spreadsheets? A program that does it for me? Train an animal to use an abacus?)
4.) Any tips for determining damage rolls without having to waste time looking up what class uses what dice (I assume repetition eventually solves this issue, or a quick cheat sheet will do the trick, but I'm curious if anyone has other ideas)
5.) Any tips for other numbers or math-related thing I've left out that you have struggled with before

1) CR is not used to create encounters. To create an encounter, you look at the monster's XP value, apply the modifiers according to the number of creatures table, and compare it to the encounter difficulty by XP table, it's really just a matter of addition and multiplication, the point is to follow the steps without hasing it.

CR is an eyballing tool, like it or not. The greater the difference between the party's level and the monster's CR, the swingier or steadier the encounter will be. Throwing a CR5 monster to a party of four level threes may result in a medium encounter when looking at the monster's experience points, but the monster is likely to kill a character in one turn. Likewise, throwing a CR3 monster at a level 5 party will probably result in the party shrugging it off, despite the amount of XP the monster is worth.

2) Since you should use XP to build encounters, you should already have at hand the amount o XP that you should award the players with after each successful encounter. Don't bother with subtracting fleeing/disabled enemies from the XP, a finished encounter is a finished encounter. Alternatively you may want to implement milestone leveling, where players level up regardless of XP when they reach certain goals (milestones) you set.

3)damage rolls... I mean... it's a matter of adding numbers together, especially simple in this edition since there aren't a lot of modifiers to take care of. If you don't have enough dice, us an online dice roller, easily accessible through a smartphone, or download a dice rolling app, there's plenty of them which are free.

4) I don't understand the question. In case you are talking about hit dice, then every class has his own, and the amount equals the character's class level. A cleric1/wizard 3 will have 1d8 (from one cleric level) + 3d6 (from the wizard levels) hit dice. The maximum amount of hit dice is the character level, and the type of hit dice are determinated by the classes that compose the character, you can use them to heal during short rests, and you regain half-your level-worth of hit dice (you choose which dice you restore) after a long rest. But those are things the players should track, not the DM.

For initiative, have each player roll his own, write it in the open, and roll the monster's for yourself, you'll ask who rolled higher, if the monsters rolled higher they go first, if not the player with the highest initiative goes, then you repeat until the round ends, everyone now knows who's after who and the numbers are no longer needed.

[Gryndle]

There are highly intelligent people who have "math dyslexia" or processing disorders - or ADD where math is the non-preferred area - and even if they could go back in time, they wouldn't learn a stinking, effing thing more!

At least you try to help and offer suggestions, but if you have even a mote of class in your soul, you'll go back and edit out that first line. You obviously have no idea what it's like having a "learning issue" or a "mental block" or a formally diagnosed learning problem - and it can be hell. People kill themselves regularly because of the shame and hell heaped upon them - they need understanding {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

You're just lucky. Now learn what empathy is.

Exactly right.

I am discalculate, what you referred to as "math dyslexia." Now D&D has helped me with that somewhat over the decades. But not a whole lot. I mean, I'm functional with math, I can balance my bank accounts, and given enough time and allowed to focus can work out most math problems. but I cant tell time on an old fashioned clock or watch, and adding up the multiple dice in D&D from massive attacks takes me twice as long as anyone else at the table. Nights where my pain & fatigue (from other unrelated illnesses) are worse, then so is my math. Those nights I tag someone else to handle the math for me.

Despite the discalculism, I functioned normally for decades, even working as EMT (a math heavy field) for 14 years. Until recently no one knew I couldn't tell time on a non-digital device.

So yes, I have to reiterate your point that being good or bad at math is absolutely no indicator of a person's intelligence or the amount of effort they apply.

[Lance Tankmen]

i use an app. i just throw what ever at the party for encounters and the players should know their damage.

[Samayu]

There are dice-rolling phone apps.

[BeefGood]

@OP: What about reading numerical data from tables? Okay, not okay, or is there a threshold like a 3-by-3 table is okay but a 4-by-4 table is not?

[Laserlight]

So yes, I have to reiterate your point that being good or bad at math is absolutely no indicator of a person's intelligence or the amount of effort they apply.

Well....I have a friend who's a bright guy--PhD in organic chemistry--but dyslexic enough that he probably couldn't spell "cat" right three times in a row. Practice at spelling wouldn't do much for him.

On the other hand, I suspect that practice would help most of the people at my table get better at adding dice. When I got a job that required a lot of arithmetic, I certainly got better at it.

On the gripping hand, if you just don't want to do arithmetic at the table, there are ways to circumvent a lot of it.

[Telwar]

For adding multiple dice quickly, I typically group the rolled dice into sets adding up to 10, and then using that to count up.

For example, earlier, I rolled on a 7d8 roll, 8, 8, 7, 5, 5, 2, and 2.

I moved the two 8s by the two 2s, and paired them off, so that was two 10s. The two 5s got paired off, so that's another 10. And then that left a leftover 7, so three 10s and a 7 = 37.

It's a little more of a pain in the butt when you get some that aren't cleanly turned into 10s, but the physical grouping of the dice into 10s or w/e really helps me a lot.

We also stopped tracking XP and just level up when the DM feels like it.

[The Aboleth]

Again, thanks a lot for the advice, everyone! Lots of great suggestions in here.

Before I go any further, I want to clarify something: I can do simple math. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division are not--in a vacuum--difficult things for me. However, math has never been my strong suit, and in a game like D&D where you have to quickly add or subtract multiple numbers in a row so as to not disrupt the pace/flow of a gameplay I find that the math part of things--even for "simple math"--can become quickly overwhelming. As others have kindly pointed out, "trouble with math" is not an indicator I am stupid, or less intelligent than others, or whatever. I simply recognize that in a situation where I am pressed for time, having to do math problems is not my forte. If I had a few minutes, it'd be no problem--but in a tense combat scenario in which the party's life or death can hang in the balance, a few minutes of waiting could easily become a momentum killer.

That's a long-winded way of simply saying this: I do not need help with the math itself, but more need suggestions on how to do the math more quickly--either by simplifying the amount of numbers I need to deal with (such as not dealing with XP at all, as some have suggested) or by developing a system in which the math can be done more easily (such as grouping multiple dice rolls into units of 10 whenever possible). Many of these suggestions have helped me in these regards, and I again thank you all for taking the time to lend me a hand!



@OP: What about reading numerical data from tables? Okay, not okay, or is there a threshold like a 3-by-3 table is okay but a 4-by-4 table is not?

It's ok in theory; my worry is that if a table is TOO large, I'll be wasting time looking for certain columns or values and that essentially re-creates the original problem in a different way. Of course, if a table is organized well enough this becomes less of an issue. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not opposed to reading numerical data from tables, so long as the table is easy to read and/or organized enough to not completely stall gameplay for an unnecessarily long amount of time.


Question: For those who have suggested using milestone XP, how do your players feel about it? My worry is that by not tracking XP and instead leveling up the party as I see fit, I am stripping the PCs of a tangible "reward" for having overcome a battle or a tough non-combat challenge. Of course, the counter to that is that as long as they're all having fun it probably doesn't matter when they level up...but I'm still worried about stripping the players of a mechanic that many see as fundamental to the D&D experience. How receptive have your tables been to milestone XP? Was there initially resistance that eventually settled into acceptance? Do some players still hate it? Is it ultimately not a big deal so long as the "milestones" you (as the DM) decide make sense?

[MrStabby]

Milestone can work well depending on game type. Levels feel like rewards and work well as rewards for achievement. The question is what achievement is available.

In a dungeon crawl with no non-combat problems and basically a big fight then xp is a good measure of challenges overcome. In a more sandbox world where "make peace" between factions might be an objective, talking and avoiding fights rather than brute force might be an acceptable solution. You reward what "good" is through progress.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I too use "milestone" XP (more precisely fiat leveling--they level up every few sessions when they do useful stuff). A game I'm a player in (with the same other players) uses straight XP--it's had to be fudged a couple times to fit what the printed adventure expects since we're not strictly sticking to the rails.

As for the math, I used to do it by hand. It was annoying. Now I use an iPad app and as long as I have the encounters set before hand it all works niftily. I still roll damage by hand, as do the players, because there's something visceral about a fist full of d6s. The big sets are rare enough that it doesn't slow things down much, or it's the players rolling and counting.

[Tanarii]

Question: For those who have suggested using milestone XP, how do your players feel about it? My worry is that by not tracking XP and instead leveling up the party as I see fit, I am stripping the PCs of a tangible "reward" for having overcome a battle or a tough non-combat challenge. Of course, the counter to that is that as long as they're all having fun it probably doesn't matter when they level up...but I'm still worried about stripping the players of a mechanic that many see as fundamental to the D&D experience. How receptive have your tables been to milestone XP? Was there initially resistance that eventually settled into acceptance? Do some players still hate it? Is it ultimately not a big deal so long as the "milestones" you (as the DM) decide make sense?
I brought up milestones with several tables of my players, and was told in no uncertain terms that I could take away their XP over my dead body.

I don't get the appeal of what 5e calls Leveling Without XP (not to be confused with 5e's milestone XP). I dont see where it saves any significant time, maybe 5 min at the end of 3 hr session covering a whole adventuring day of encounters. Amd it robs players of a reward they almost all love to see going up to the next level.

Of course, I have to use XP anyway since any given session won't have the same PC or players. I can see where it might seem superfluous for a "single group of players & PCs all adventuring together through an adventure arc" campaign.

[Scripten]

I brought up milestones with several tables of my players, and was told in no uncertain terms that I could take away their XP over my dead body.


As an alternative POV, my players continue to celebrate the end of XP calculations several years into my milestone-based campaign. If your players don't like doing math or checking tables, then they may find milestones greatly preferable.

For reference, I play with a single, fairly stable roster of players at my table.

[GlenSmash!]

In particular, I'd like help on:

1.) Determining CRs of encounters (the DM Handbook's explanation was hard for me to follow)
2.) Tracking XP
3.) Any tips for quickly determining damage rolls (spreadsheets? A program that does it for me? Train an animal to use an abacus?)
4.) Any tips for determining damage rolls without having to waste time looking up what class uses what dice (I assume repetition eventually solves this issue, or a quick cheat sheet will do the trick, but I'm curious if anyone has other ideas)
5.) Any tips for other numbers or math-related thing I've left out that you have struggled with before

1) I'm lazy and will pay for pre-made adventures so I don't worry about this.
2) I don't do this either. At the end of an adventuring day, I give the party the recommended XP for an adventuring day at their level from the chart in the DMG.
3)We'll you don't have to figure it out for players, so I assume you mean monsters? The quick way is looking at their statblock, it even provides a flat number if you don't want to bother rolling.
4) Why are you looking up for classes? Classes are for players. Monsters/NPcs are for DMs. They have statblocks that show exactly what attacks they can make. No need to look anything else up.
5) Not really? I'm pretty math averse and I find 1 and 2 take care of the bulk of it.

[Jama7301]

Since I use a computer to help organize some things, I always have EXCEL up that I set up beforehand. I label the monsters something like Goblin A, B, C, etc and have corresponding tokens for them. I then have the initiative up the left hand side, and I use the SUM command to automatically calculate running HP totals. It'll look something like...


Initiative
Score
blank
Goblin A
Goblin B
Goblin C


John
17
Max HP
17
18
16


Goblin C
15
Current HP
^=D2-(SUM(D3:D10)) (should automatically tally to 12
^=E2-(SUM(E3:E10)) (should auto tally to 1)
^=F2-(SUM(F3:F10)) (should auto tally to 7)


Tom
14
Damage (Healing is -)
7
2
3


Goblin A
11
Blank
-2
15
6



^ - replace with whatever the adding command is for your processor is. Extend range if you expect them to take more than 10 sources of damage/healing.


A little work out front helps save me math in game. I can also re-use my encounter sheet and just change the name and Max Health value, and clear the damage sections and it's all set. Helps to automate some of the more tedious bookkeeping I've found. Could also use it for the PCs if I wanted as well.

[Citan]

Movement. Damage rolls. Challenge ratings. Initiative orders. Experience points. Rolling d6+8 - 12 and dividing by your Wisdom modifier.

There's a lot of math in D&D, some in places I didn't expect. As someone who is not very good at math and quickly gets overwhelmed by it, the prospect of DMing a long-running campaign and keeping track of all this is quite intimidating to me.

In the past, I've only DM'd a couple one-shots for mostly beginner players; now, however, I'm being recruited to DM a potentially months-spanning quest for a mix of newbies and veterans (though the veterans don't have much experience with 5e, as far as I know). Since the one-shots were low-key affairs for a group of players who were completely new to the game, I didn't have to worry about things like experience points or be too concerned if I messed up a damage roll or two. This time, though, I feel a greater responsibility to get things *right,* and I don't want to "eyeball" or "handwave" things just because players can't see behind the screen. I want to do better, but I'm scared that my poor math skills will disrupt the flow of an otherwise well-paced adventure.

So, for my other math-challenged DMs out there: How do you handle the math part of the game? Are there any tips or tricks you'd like to share that have improved your experience with managing all those scary numbers?

In particular, I'd like help on:

1.) Determining CRs of encounters (the DM Handbook's explanation was hard for me to follow)
2.) Tracking XP
3.) Any tips for quickly determining damage rolls (spreadsheets? A program that does it for me? Train an animal to use an abacus?)
4.) Any tips for determining damage rolls without having to waste time looking up what class uses what dice (I assume repetition eventually solves this issue, or a quick cheat sheet will do the trick, but I'm curious if anyone has other ideas)
5.) Any tips for other numbers or math-related thing I've left out that you have struggled with before

I should mention, as well: Our sessions will be in-person, so using a program like roll20 is PROBABLY out of the question unless you think using such a program could still be viable in an in-person environment. I'm open to any and all suggestions, really, but I know some suggestions will be more geared toward and online-only game and wanted to clarify that is not the type of game we'll be running.

Thanks in advance for your help, everyone!
Hi!

"As a DM, how do you handle the math of it all?"
Very simply: I don't. :smallbiggrin:

The group I'm DMing for is not fond of resources management or heavy number-crunching yet they love mixes between small & quick encounters and big, long & tactical-heavy
ones. Sooo...

1) I honestly don't follow that much the CR thingy. Always was kinda mistery for me. I rather try to think about how they play to create encounters that vary in challenge and are coherent for setting and level, giving them at least two ways to tackle an encounter... Sometimes I fail and encounters are bland or too dangerous. Most of the time everyone has a reasonable share of fun, a few, rare times it's a true blast (usually because a player has a crazy idea that completely blows my whole encounter, but is so funny I try and give him a chance to make it work).

2) I overall don't, or only in a very light way: simply because we play fairly rarely, yet my group wants to experience new things regularly. Also I'm very unsatisfied by the basic PHB system, which does not reward enough roleplay and sensible decisions to my taste.
So I'll use milestones for the first levels, then define arbitrary lumps of "round XP" that seem reasonable for the considered obstacle. The fact I completely detach from the official referential makes it easier for me to allow bonus or penalty XP on the fly depending on many factors (wits, respect of character's alignment and behaviours, or real-life reasons like it's due time for them to get new toys XD).
Also, unless exceptional circumstances (like one player really did all work or had an exceptionally good idea which turned tables) players all get the same XP share. They don't particularly appreciate the "passive-agressive PVP" that can spawn off having individual calculations and god knows they are lacking enough already in teamwork not to add a "I'll just wait to steal your kill" layer on top of that.

3&4) I roll only in quick fights, and "on the fly" (I won't bother creating macros although I know it would spare much time in the long run ^^). For biggest fights, I'll roll only for the more interesting creatures. For mooks I'll use the fixed HP and damage. Much quicker for everyone.

If you'd like to keep some randomness but still spare some time, you could also take the average damage and just add/substract 1<x<6 by rolling 1d12 (1-6: substract, 7-12: add).

Apart from that, there are many dice roller apps on phones, I don't use them but I'm sure someone can give you good ones.

5) Honestly? It's commendable of you to try and stick as much as possible to a strict application of rules, but don't pressure yourself over it.
All of these, ALL, are just tools to *help* you, not *hinder* you.
As long as you are clear in advance with your player on how you may run things*, there is no fear to have imo. :)

* To each group his own way and balance: what works great for me and my group could infuriate players in some others (like XP tracking and competing over, I can think of a few people around me that see it as a mini-game in the game ^^. Some other players may appreciate the swinginess of "100% rolled" damage of enemies...
The only thing to be really careful about is discussing openly of everything you can think about in session 0, also to know each one's expectations about the game. It helps much ;))

[the secret fire]

I find it hard to believe that an aboleth is not good at math.

[BlackbirdXX]

Fantasy Grounds. :) Done.


Seriously, lots of great suggestions here. But Fantasy Grounds can literally change the way you play/DM 5e or any other supported RPG.

Granted, that can go both ways... for every group that loves it there will be a group that feels it 'isn't the same thing'. AND it does cost money. AND there is a learning curve, not only for the DM but also for the players. You could argue following the free tips and advise posted is time/money better spent.

BUT if your group buys into the concept or can be pushed kicking and screaming, it's totally worth it. :)

P.S. as for the 'in person' experience with the tabletop software. Really, only the DM needs the laptop (same as a screen) and another laptop or TV/large display for the players to see/share from. You could still roll real dice. There is a setting that you can toggle so FG prompts you for a roll result instead of rolling automatically. And if everyone gets super into it then you can get all tech and build a tv into a game tables or everyone can bring laptops to the game. BUT, see the 'isn't the same thing' comment above. There is a disconnect that can happen if players can't resist social media/etc with a screen in front of them. So not for everyone/group.

[Baptor]

In particular, I'd like help on:

1.) Determining CRs of encounters (the DM Handbook's explanation was hard for me to follow)
2.) Tracking XP
3.) Any tips for quickly determining damage rolls (spreadsheets? A program that does it for me? Train an animal to use an abacus?)
4.) Any tips for determining damage rolls without having to waste time looking up what class uses what dice (I assume repetition eventually solves this issue, or a quick cheat sheet will do the trick, but I'm curious if anyone has other ideas)
5.) Any tips for other numbers or math-related thing I've left out that you have struggled with before

I feel your pain, and I've been DMing for 20 years.

I use a lot of tools and cheat sheets. I'll share what I have.

1. I use this for Challenge Ratings. (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1e_rXTytwMYldCELm0v9I5tLopxfoVYUp)I got this years ago when 5e first came out. I no longer remember what kind soul did this math for us, but if anyone finds out, PM me and I will make sure to give him/her credit everytime I post it. It breaks down both CR and PC levels into a number called ECL (effective character level). Just add up the ECL of the monsters vs. the ECL of the party and winner winner chicken dinner. Believe it or not it fits the (overly complicated) way the DMG tells you to do it. I've tested the math and it works, trust me.

1b. Really though, you don't need to worry about CR. We DMs lived without it from 1974-2000 and it was fine. Just use what you think will work. If you're wrong you can fix it by subtracting hp or something behind the screen. Or don't fix it and hopefully they will run away. :smallbiggrin:

2. I gave up on XP a long time ago. I do story-based leveling. I love it, the players love it. Just level them up when you feel the time is right.

3. I use the average for all non-d20 rolls I make as a DM. Heck sometimes all I bring to the table is a d20.

4. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "which class uses which dice" for damage. Warriors all use whatever dice the weapon calls for. Spellcaster's spells all use different dice for damage (d4 for magic missile, d6 for fireball, d8 for cone of cold, etc). Weapon damage comes with repetition. Spells do too, but you'll never get past having to look up some spells. I recommend buying the Spell Card decks.

5. There are lots of cheat sheets out there.
Here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1m2sWqYF48jwhp8ev-CBPonBUj2R816Jo)
are (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fHP6I1sHXPkzUG82Fos3Mac-tpEXgG4i)
three (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DJqW9x9uUg-KB1lE0LGo2bRlEHBtsZsA)
I use.

I second those who say the rules are just tools to help you. I would almost recommend going back and looking at the simplicity of some of the OSR remakes and realizing, as Gary himself once said, "The DMs really don't need rules."