Verbal component of enthrall and charm.

[sophontteks]

I am playing a devils tongue variant tiefling because its better flavor for a glamour bard. But I have some questions with how the two spells it receives work in social situations.

How I would like it to work, and how it best fits the flavor IMO, is that the verbal component is a distracting or charming speech laced with magic. I mean we've all seen how charms work in cinema. The person talks all seductive like and the creature listening is put under their spell. If the creature resists, from the creatures perspective, the target is being extremely charming, but their concious interveins. They are not directly thinking "Oh that is a charm spell."

Is this how it works by raw?
Are they aware that I am casting a spell on them if I fail?
Are they aware that I am casting a spell at all?
Is charming someone always a hostile act after an hour?

I'm espesially concerned with enthrall here, because if its clear I'm casting a spell, succeed or fail, the targets have enough reason to be on guard and render the spells benefits useless. They can't possibly know I'm casting a spell and be distracted as its written, right?

[Unoriginal]

Verbal components are identifiable as such, or at least as a weird combination of sounds you do separately of you normal speech. If you want to cast a charm spell, you typically have to say the verbal components, *then* use your supernaturally enchanting words. Casting Friend on the Mayor in the middle of a room is not going to end well.


Only a Sorcerer with Subtle Spell can avoid that, to my knowledge. Which makes some class features granting enchantement without V components pretty valuable.

[sophontteks]

So, if that is true is enthrall a broken spell?

[Crgaston]

(Apologies in advance if this is fractured.. it was composed on my phone over the course of an hour or so while doing other Saturday morning activities.)

My 2cp...
It offends my sense of aesthetics for spells like Command, Dissonant Whispers, or the various other Enchantment/Charm spells to have a different Verbal component from the thing you’re actually saying. Although by RAW, you could certainly argue the case either way.

Take Dissonant Whispers...

“You whisper a discordant melody that only one creature of your choice within range can hear...”

Or Command...

“You speak a one-word command to a creature you can see within range.”

It makes more sense to me that you are infusing your speech with magical energy. So more along the lines of just “STOP!” rather than “(humbaba zu zu ping) STOP!”

(Although, now that I’m thinking about it, “Simon Says” would be a fun V component for Command.)




In the case of Enthrall specifically, it states “You weave a distracting string of words,“ and it also has a Somatic component, so you’re also moving your hands around or playing your instrument.

Enthrall is an odd spell in that it doesn’t require concentration, but it ends if the “target can no longer hear you.” So that certainly implies that you have to be speaking/singing for the distraction to keep working.

Typically there shouldn’t be a problem unless you’re playing with someone who thinks that Subtle Spell is somehow nerfed unless all other casting is super obvious to everyone in sight/hearing.

I mean, with Bards the book says “Your magic comes from the heart and soul you pour into the performance of your music or oration,” so people know you’re talking or singing already. I really don’t think it’s necessary to pause in the middle of your song or speech to say “humbaba zu zu ping” or whatever to satisfy the V component of casting a spell by either RAW or RAI. Especially not for Enthrall, which is meant to be a distraction in the first place.

[sophontteks]

Interesting, thanks for applying some of the book material into your opinion Crgaston. With spells like entrall, and indeed many of the charm spells, it does seem like the verbal component was supposed to be the charming words themselves. But its not clear. The problem is, if the verbal component is not the words themselves, many of these spells just straight do not work. Espesially with enthrall.