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Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-13, 10:09 PM
I have this idea about my Pathfinder campaign about using certain monsters like Brownies and Trolls. What are the usual problems to doing something like this? Also, is there anything wrong with changing the races in question like making the trolls like those from Shadowrun or Tales of Arcana and making brownies similar to halflings?

GentlemanVoodoo
2018-04-13, 11:04 PM
On the mechanics I am not familiar with race creation but would recommend using one of the preexisting races and refluff accordingly. Saves time and headache in trying to balance things by creating from scratch. As to using trolls and whatnot for pc races there is no rule that says you cant. The majority do not however see such creatures as pc races since it defies the high fantasy preconceptions of what are to be concidered a civilized race. But your game, do what you want.

Bohandas
2018-04-13, 11:27 PM
The main problem is you'd need to figure out the level adjustment. I think that's it.

Karl Aegis
2018-04-13, 11:42 PM
If the game's canon setting has established something as man-eating, antisocial radishes there's generally a disconnect when you introduce a similarly named being into your setting as a relatively benign, gregarious cat girl. There's an expectation of man-eating, antisocial radishes and your players may be disappointed or even betrayed when you tell them there are no man-eating, antisocial radishes.

RFLS
2018-04-14, 12:47 AM
In Pathfinder, the main problem you're going to run into is balancing it against the other core races. If you opt to make it more powerful, you can give them RHD (racial hit dice; essentially levels in its race), or LA (level adjustment, which is a value that says "this creature is treated as its actual level +LA, whatever the LA value is). This handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook), while written for 3.5, should give you a grasp on how these values and adjustments are arrived at. Here (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types/) are the revised monster rules for Pathfinder.

There is nothing wrong with changing what a creature is. However, you need to make it clear to the people at the table what the thing is. Names are shorthand for detailed descriptions, so make sure that everyone at the table knows what the name of the thing means. Be more careful of this if you are using an established setting.

Finally, this would be a better fit in the 3.x/PF subforum.

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-14, 01:59 AM
In Pathfinder, the main problem you're going to run into is balancing it against the other core races. If you opt to make it more powerful, you can give them RHD (racial hit dice; essentially levels in its race), or LA (level adjustment, which is a value that says "this creature is treated as its actual level +LA, whatever the LA value is). This handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook), while written for 3.5, should give you a grasp on how these values and adjustments are arrived at. Here (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types/) are the revised monster rules for Pathfinder.

There is nothing wrong with changing what a creature is. However, you need to make it clear to the people at the table what the thing is. Names are shorthand for detailed descriptions, so make sure that everyone at the table knows what the name of the thing means. Be more careful of this if you are using an established setting.

Finally, this would be a better fit in the 3.x/PF subforum.

Thanks for the links.

Also, sorry, kinda new around here.

The Glyphstone
2018-04-14, 08:54 AM
You really might be better off making one thread for all your questions, instead of spawning a new thread every single time you're curious about something. It'd probably be easier to ask and answer that way.

Cap'n Gravelock
2018-04-14, 09:00 PM
You really might be better off making one thread for all your questions, instead of spawning a new thread every single time you're curious about something. It'd probably be easier to ask and answer that way.

Okay. Thanks. I'll do that.

Jay R
2018-04-15, 07:29 PM
This has been acceptable (if the DM approves) all the way back to the first role-playing rules published in 1974:


Other Character Types: There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e., a player wishing to be a Balrog would have to begin as let us say, a relatively "young" one, and progress in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign referee.

The crucial phrase is "steps being predetermined by the campaign referee."

You are in charge of your game.

vasilidor
2018-04-16, 01:44 AM
actually, a monsters challenge rating or hit dice will tell you what its character level equivalent is. yes I do believe that was the official ruling. you go with the higher of the two. also for every 5 class levels you gained, the monster level or challenge rating counts as one less.
the paizo boards had this posted, but do not remember where.

Tvtyrant
2018-04-16, 12:48 PM
I have this idea about my Pathfinder campaign about using certain monsters like Brownies and Trolls. What are the usual problems to doing something like this? Also, is there anything wrong with changing the races in question like making the trolls like those from Shadowrun or Tales of Arcana and making brownies similar to halflings?

There was a pretty big group back in the day that made monster classes for 3.5 that would let you play as a monster from level 1-20. You might look at those for guidance.

GungHo
2018-04-20, 11:03 AM
There is no rule against it. My experience with it is that it can become an incredible PITA once you start adding significant character levels to monster PCs because, despite many assertions otherwise, challenge rating/level and character level don't necessarily scale at the same rate even with "similar" CL/CR monsters.

Sigreid
2018-04-20, 11:22 AM
There's no rule against any individual table doing whatever brings them joy. That said, you may find issues with balance with monster races in a non monster party.

martixy
2018-04-28, 08:59 AM
I have this idea about my Pathfinder campaign about using certain monsters like Brownies and Trolls. What are the usual problems to doing something like this? Also, is there anything wrong with changing the races in question like making the trolls like those from Shadowrun or Tales of Arcana and making brownies similar to halflings?

Yes, and they are simple:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/monstersAsPCs.html

Treat the monster's CR as class levels when determining the monster PC's overall levels.
It is recommended that for every 3 levels gained by the group, the monster character should gain an extra level, received halfway between the 2nd and 3rd levels. Repeat this process a number of times equal to half the monster's CR, rounded down.

Anonymouswizard
2018-04-28, 09:27 AM
I've considered in my game (which keeps getting rewritten to be less D&D like) of whenever I include a humanoid creature to instead create a PC race and rule that these are the adjustments to be applied to the standard NPC stat block. At that point GMs who want monster PCs as an option don't have to jump through hoops. Although PCs who are not humanoid are annoyingly hard to balance.

Answers for 3.P have been given. So I'll note that many games do make all humanoid options in the setting available as PCs, such as Shadowrun and Victoriana.

ETA: I actually quite like how Victoriana deals with orcs as a PC race, even more than their take on Ogres. Dwarves are short, hardworking, and aligned with Order, while orcs drop the tendency to be so hardworking and are instead human height, muscled, significantly aligned with Order, not from around here, and naturally good with technology. As in your average orc will have an affinity for off the cuff repairs for at least one type of technology, and it's well placed for being the one making sure the trains stay running at all, let alone on time. Ideally I'd like to get rid of the part in italics, but it's something I can live with (even if I so want to play a Scottish orc engineer with alcoholism and points in ad-hoc repair [fabric]).

John Campbell
2018-05-02, 11:12 AM
The party in the Pathfinder game I'm currently running consists of a lizardman ranger, a kitsune rogue, a hobgoblin kineticist, and an ogre wizard. You can do whatever you want.

Pathfinder includes rules for using a lot of traditional "monster" races as PC races, and the Advanced Races Guide includes rules for designing your own custom ones.

aaron819
2018-05-16, 03:16 PM
I don't recall a specific rule against it, but balancing homebrew races doesn't work as well in level based systems as it does in point based systems (where you just add up the cost of the racial traits and say "this is how many points it costs to be an ogre.")