Am I reading Wall of Smoke incorrectly?

[jmax]

WARNING: If you love Wall of Smoke, your DM lets you use it the way you like it, and you don't want it to be ruined for you forever, stop reading!



Ok, everyone properly warned? Good.



I keep seeing people (and handbooks) say Wall of Smoke (SpC 235) is amazing because you can conjure it on top of creatures to force a save against the nausea. I can see how one could stretch the writing to make it sound almost plausible that it can work that way, but the much more plausible definition seems that the spell is just not particularly well written.

The interpretation that the effect can be conjured on top of things seems to be based on "whose area is up to one 10-ft. square/level". Nearly every Wall spell I can find has a similar specification with the exceptions of Wall of Fire (which specifies height and length) and Wall of Thorns, which specifies 10-ft cubes.

The difference with all of the other Wall spells (thorns and fire aside) is that explicitly specify thickness, usually in terms of inches per caster level and in reference to the object hardness tables. The assertion seems to be that Wall of Smoke doesn't specify a thickness and therefore it inherently creates cubes... but the spell absolutely does not say that, and in fact it does specify a thickness.


This spell creates a thin wall of black smoke.

Emphasis mine.

I can see only two possible ways to interpret that in conjunction with the area definition.


The wall is vertical and of negligible thickness.
The wall doesn't have to be vertical but is of negligible thickness.


In the case of the former, you cannot conjure it on top of another creature unless either (a) that creature is larger than Medium, or (b) you aren't restricted to combat grid lines. In either case, said creature hasn't actually passed through the wall and therefore shouldn't have to save against nausea unless they move in such a manner that the bulk of their space has transitioned from being on one side of the wall to the other. This makes encountering the effect strictly voluntary, considerably weakening the spell.

In the case of the latter, you can conjure the wall horizontally so that it intersects all creatures in a horizontal area. They still haven't passed through it, although a weak argument could be made that they do so if they move from their current positions. However, at that point the spell isn't really a wall anymore. It's a ceiling, a floor, or a field.


In conclusion, I think the evidence overwhelmingly points to the interpretation that the wall is meant to be vertical (or mostly vertical) and of negligible thickness. You cannot conjure it in such a way to force a save against nausea immediately. It is, therefore, a fairly weak spell even by 1st-level standards - and at CL1 it's all but useless because it's trivially easy to walk around it.



Thoughts?

[Uncle Pine]

"whose area is up to one 10-ft. square/level" means that the base of the wall occupies that space, and the wall exudes from there. An area defines a 2D space, whereas a volume defines a 3D space. Similarly, squares are 2D and cubes are 3D.

Even if you go by the (incorrect) idea that a wall of smoke has no volume, it's fairly easy to place it so that its thin area crosses the spaces occupied by several creatures, regardless of their relative sizes.
https://i.imgur.com/FJkcdJd.png
The red line is the wall of smoke, whose path crosses both a Medium humanoid creature and a Large tick.

[jmax]

But how do you square (no pun intended) the area assertion with Wall of Stone, Wall of Ice, and Wall of Force?

I can see how you'd place the wall such that creatures start out with it bisecting their spaces, but that doesn't seem to imply having passed through it immediately.

[SirNibbles]

"Conjuration

Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool), actually transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling), heal (healing), transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation), or create objects or effects on the spot (creation). Creatures you conjure usually, but not always, obey your commands.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range." - Conjuration, SRD

According to the above, you can't just place it on the enemy.

Also, I'd agree with the interpretation that it's vertical and the thickness is negligible.

[Uncle Pine]

But how do you square (no pun intended) the area assertion with Wall of Stone, Wall of Ice, and Wall of Force?

I can see how you'd place the wall such that creatures start out with it bisecting their spaces, but that doesn't seem to imply having passed through it immediately.
I think I got it: in all cases, the thickness of the wall is given (i.e. negligible for wall of smoke, 1 inch for wall of stone). This means that "area" simply refers to base*height, so it's the length of the wall on the combat grid multiplied for its height, remembering that according to the rules on shapeable effects none of the wall's dimensions can be smaller than 10 ft... and then making an educated guess about the fact thickness isn't included in this rule. :smallconfused:


"Conjuration

Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool), actually transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling), heal (healing), transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation), or create objects or effects on the spot (creation). Creatures you conjure usually, but not always, obey your commands.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range." - Conjuration, SRD

According to the above, you can't just place it on the enemy.

So you can't. I forgot that applies to all Conjuration effects, instead of only summons. It seems like we've cracked all the mysteries on Wall of Smoke! :smallbiggrin:

[Daefos]

Last I checked, summoning smoke around a creature was not the same thing as summoning smoke inside of them. There are a bunch of Conjuration spells that would became nigh-useless if you interpreted that rule to mean that you can’t summon any Conjuration area effect if something is in that area: Grease, Black Tentacles, the various fog and cloud spells, etc. I really don’t think the intention was that you’d plop these on the ground and simply hope something walked into them.

I don’t have much to say about Wall of Smoke in particular, I’m just pretty sure the rule SirNibbles is referencing was meant to prevent you from killing things by summoning a large creature inside their stomach.

[Uncle Pine]

Last I checked, summoning smoke around a creature was not the same thing as summoning smoke inside of them. There are a bunch of Conjuration spells that would became nigh-useless if you interpreted that rule to mean that you can’t summon any Conjuration area effect if something is in that area: Grease, Black Tentacles, the various fog and cloud spells, etc. I really don’t think the intention was that you’d plop these on the ground and simply hope something walked into them.

I don’t have much to say about Wall of Smoke in particular, I’m just pretty sure the rule SirNibbles is referencing was meant to prevent you from killing things by summoning a large creature inside their stomach.

Wait, you're right: summoning a wall of smoke in the same space as a creature doesn't mean you're summoning it inside the creature. And since it's made of smoke, thus not solid, I don't think any objection can be made about it just being there, whereas wall of stone could raise a few eyebrows in the same situation.

[KillianHawkeye]

Yeah, smoke is not really a creature or an object, so that rule doesn't apply. Otherwise, most of the fog cloud type of spells would be totally useless, as well as the other examples already mentioned.

[SirNibbles]

To each his own. If I were DM, I would say you cannot place a Wall of Smoke such that the wall is in the same 3D space as a creature. You could place it on the edge of their space, even surrounding them, so that they would be affected if they moved, but not in such a way that they were 'through' the wall. Since they can't occupy the same space, there would have to be a gap in the wall, like that Japanese game show.

https://www.japanpowered.com/media/images/nokabe.jpg

[Mato]

Last I checked, summoning smoke around a creature was not the same thing as summoning smoke inside of them.And that is simply a voracious truth, meaning your nit picking is somewhat accurate but it has no value in the discussion. The spell, wall of smoke, specifically requires you to summon a straight wall. What it means by shapable is that you have the ability to rotate it's lay out, not that you can make a square out of it.

And if you have played a spellcaster in D&D before you'd should know that the point of origin of all area spells is always an intersection on the battle grid, it's says as much in the spell descriptions on page 175 in the Player's Handbook near the same location SirNibbles already had to remind you about (I'm picking up on a theme here). It also says that if the spell’s area only touches the near edge of a square then anything within that square is unaffected by the spell, unless the spell says otherwise of course, so even if you could draw a square around someone it wouldn't immediately affect them anyway.

You can try to target from one corner to another diagonally which would affect everyone in the square, but as SirNibbles already reminded you of, that would make the summoned object occupy the same space as the inside of a creature which means you cannot do that.


Yeah, smoke is not really a creature or an object, so that rule doesn't apply. Otherwise, most of the fog cloud type of spells would be totally useless, as well as the other examples already mentioned.Does the wall of smoke have both a wisdom and charisma score?

Wisdom
Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom. Anything with no Wisdom score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Wisdom score also has no Charisma score.

Charisma
Any creature capable of telling the difference between itself and things that are not itself has at least 1 point of Charisma. Anything with no Charisma score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Charisma score also has no Wisdom score.So yes, it is an object.


To each his own. If I were DM, I would say you cannot place a Wall of Smoke such that the wall is in the same 3D space as a creature. You could place it on the edge of their space, even surrounding them, so that they would be affected if they moved, but not in such a way that they were 'through' the wall. Since they can't occupy the same space, there would have to be a gap in the wall, like that Japanese game show.Thank you for being the only guy to have read the rulebooks, or at least referenced a single paragraph before posting your opinion online to avoid looking foolish to everyone involved, and for not trying to create houserules that make casters even stronger.

[KillianHawkeye]

Does the wall of smoke have both a wisdom and charisma score?
So yes, it is an object.

Can you pick it up? Can you put it in your pocket or backpack? No? Then it's not really "an object".

A bottle of smoke is an object. A cloud of smoke (even a wall-shaped one) isn't.

Is a field of grass an object? No, but a sack full of grass is.
Is a pool of water an object? No, but a glass of water is.
Is the air we breathe an object? No, but a balloon full of air is.
Is a castle wall or the hull of a ship an object? Not really, but you can sub-divide it into smaller sections and sort of treat them as if they were objects.

You can quote rules about Charisma and Wisdom scores all you want, but you're missing the point that the rules don't really view uncontained liquids or gasses as "things", so they aren't a part of "anything".

The spell bless water is used to make holy water. Can you just cast it on water? No, you cast it on a flask full of water.



tldr; Smoke is an example of environmental effects which are part of an unwritten category of stuff that are neither creatures nor objects.

[SirNibbles]

Can you pick it up? Can you put it in your pocket or backpack? No? Then it's not really "an object".

A bottle of smoke is an object. A cloud of smoke (even a wall-shaped one) isn't.

Is a field of grass an object? No, but a sack full of grass is.
Is a pool of water an object? No, but a glass of water is.
Is the air we breathe an object? No, but a balloon full of air is.
Is a castle wall or the hull of a ship an object? Not really, but you can sub-divide it into smaller sections and sort of treat them as if they were objects.

You can quote rules about Charisma and Wisdom scores all you want, but you're missing the point that the rules don't really view uncontained liquids or gasses as "things", so they aren't a part of "anything".

The spell bless water is used to make holy water. Can you just cast it on water? No, you cast it on a flask full of water.



tldr; Smoke is an example of environmental effects which are part of an unwritten category of stuff that are neither creatures nor objects.

"...or create objects or effects on the spot (creation)" - Conjuration, SRD

"Creation
A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates (subject to the limits noted above). If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence." - Conjuration: Creation, SRD

It doesn't need to be an object for it to apply. It works for effects too.

EDIT: Added sources.

[ExLibrisMortis]

tldr; Smoke is an example of environmental effects which are part of an unwritten category of stuff that are neither creatures nor objects.
No. Smoke is definitely an object. Your examples are all of incidental properties that common, human-familiar physical objects have, but they don't define what an "object" really is.

[retaliation08]

Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage.

Does smoke have a hardness?

[Zanos]

You can't use conjuration to summon one thing inside of another thing. There's nothing against summoning something inside another creature's tactical grid space, unless the spell specifies that you can't.

I am inclined to agree that wall of smoke creates 10x10 vertical sheets and not a huge horizontal blanket, though.

[Andor13]

To each his own. If I were DM, I would say you cannot place a Wall of Smoke such that the wall is in the same 3D space as a creature. You could place it on the edge of their space, even surrounding them, so that they would be affected if they moved, but not in such a way that they were 'through' the wall. Since they can't occupy the same space, there would have to be a gap in the wall, like that Japanese game show.

https://www.japanpowered.com/media/images/nokabe.jpg

Yes, so what? The smoke is smoke, it swirls. And the creature in it is presumably moving, and usually breathing, since this is a combat scenario. I suppose if a creature wanted to hold it's breath and remain absolutely still I would (were I GMing) allow it to avoid interacting with a wall of smoke conjured across it's square, at the cost of gaining the "helpless" condition. It you want to make yourself coup de gras fodder in order to avoid a chance to be nauseated, be my guest.

[jmax]

Lots of good replies here, with the general trend being leaning toward the thin vertical wall rather than a thick field. Thanks all for your input.

Assuming you can conjure the wall such that a creature has part of its body through it, does that creature have to save against the nausea immediately or only if it passes the more significant part of its bisected mass through the wall? Or does it get a free pass (no pun intended) because it's already partly through the wall?

(I'll +1 the assertion that the conjuring-things-inside-things rule wasn't meant to block you from putting vapor around something. Obscuring mist wouldn't make any sense in that context because you by definition cannot be outside the spell area when you cast it.)

[Daefos]

And that is simply a voracious truth, meaning your nit picking is somewhat accurate but it has no value in the discussion. The spell, wall of smoke, specifically requires you to summon a straight wall. What it means by shapable is that you have the ability to rotate it's lay out, not that you can make a square out of it.

Yes, I can see now that defining "summoning something inside of a creature" has nothing to add to a discussion about summoning something inside of a creature. Thank you for this wisdom. But please, continue.


And if you have played a spellcaster in D&D before you'd should know that the point of origin of all area spells is always an intersection on the battle grid, it's says as much in the spell descriptions on page 175 in the Player's Handbook near the same location SirNibbles already had to remind you about (I'm picking up on a theme here).

And I'm the condescending one here? Okay then.


It also says that if the spell’s area only touches the near edge of a square then anything within that square is unaffected by the spell, unless the spell says otherwise of course, so even if you could draw a square around someone it wouldn't immediately affect them anyway.

Yes, I know how spells work. But if you had read the rest of my post (oh look, now we're both discovering themes in each others' posts. I can feel us growing closer), you might have noticed that it has nothing to do with what I was talking about. You may, in fact, stumble across the part where I clarify that I am not talking about Wall of Smoke. I am not talking about any kind of wall, in fact. I only posted to point out that "summoning inside a creature" and "summoning around a creature" are different things, and one being disallowed does not automatically disallow the other.


You can try to target from one corner to another diagonally which would affect everyone in the square, but as SirNibbles already reminded you of, that would make the summoned object occupy the same space as the inside of a creature which means you cannot do that.

So, you wouldn't allow Fog Cloud to be cast in the center of a group of enemies? It's a Conjuration effect that can be cast at range and affects an area, and the description of the spell makes no allowances for appearing around any creature. How about Sleet Storm? Solid Fog? Acid Fog? Because that's the situation I was describing, and since you keep citing the same rule to oppose it, I'm forced to conclude that you wouldn't allow a player to cast a single one of them if there is so much as a rat in the way, because doing so would mean that they were trying to summon fog inside of the poor thing. What exactly do you have against clouds?



TL;DR: At no point did I argue in favour of placing any kind of Wall of [X] directly on top of someone. Hell, I wouldn't allow Wall of Smoke to do so; I agree with you. So the next time you want to go on a condescending rant, by all means do so, just make sure the person decide to lash out at is actually on the other side.

[jmax]

Yes, I can see now that defining "summoning something inside of a creature" has nothing to add to a discussion about summoning something inside of a creature. Thank you for this wisdom. But please, continue.



And I'm the condescending one here? Okay then.



Yes, I know how spells work. But if you had read the rest of my post (oh look, now we're both discovering themes in each others' posts. I can feel us growing closer), you might have noticed that it has nothing to do with what I was talking about. You may, in fact, stumble across the part where I clarify that I am not talking about Wall of Smoke. I am not talking about any kind of wall, in fact. I only posted to point out that "summoning inside a creature" and "summoning around a creature" are different things, and one being disallowed does not automatically disallow the other.



So, you wouldn't allow Fog Cloud to be cast in the center of a group of enemies? It's a Conjuration effect that can be cast at range and affects an area, and the description of the spell makes no allowances for appearing around any creature. How about Sleet Storm? Solid Fog? Acid Fog? Because that's the situation I was describing, and since you keep citing the same rule to oppose it, I'm forced to conclude that you wouldn't allow a player to cast a single one of them if there is so much as a rat in the way, because doing so would mean that they were trying to summon fog inside of the poor thing. What exactly do you have against clouds?



TL;DR: At no point did I argue in favour of placing any kind of Wall of [X] directly on top of someone. Hell, I wouldn't allow Wall of Smoke to do so; I agree with you. So the next time you want to go on a condescending rant, by all means do so, just make sure the person decide to lash out at is actually on the other side.


Can we move on from this please? I'm not going to make any assertions or lay blame on who is provoking whom, but it's not adding much to the discussion. Let's assume for the sake of productive discussion that you can conjure fog and smoke in the same square as other creatures and that it surrounds them but does not inherently go inside them.

[Doctor Awkward]

Interesting.

The problem here is the lack of specificity in the what the Wall of Smoke actually is. Despite the fact that the area of the spell is measured in 10 ft cubes, there is also this to consider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#area):


If the far edge of a square is within the spell’s area, anything within that square is within the spell’s area. If the spell’s area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell.


Based on the description of the spell, and the fact that the point of origin for area spells must always be on a grid intersection, a Wall of Smoke, when conjured, sits on the border of grid squares without actually affecting the occupants of the squares that it borders.

For the sake of visual clarity let's picture this:
https://i.imgur.com/s8rHI61.png

Here we have a team of three bad guys against a two good guys.
Now let's say the 3rd level Wizard behind them drops a wall of smoke on the grid intersection between the two teams. That would then look like this:
https://i.imgur.com/n1KOYAU.png

Three 10 foot cubes that start on a grid intersection, and the rest of the spell still applies. Combatants can attack through the wall with a miss chance, and should they attempt to pass through it they are subject to the Fortitude save.

Compare that to the spell Wall of Sand, in the SpC right before Wall of Smoke, which explicitly states it creates a 10-ft. thick wall.

Centered on the indicated point in space, that would look like this:
https://i.imgur.com/2KEUBmQ.png
Based on the description of the spell the three bad guys are quite certainly be affected by it, which states that they are blinded, cannot move more than 5-feet, and are subject to the suffocation rules.

While you can make the argument that the area for Wall of Smoke should be identical to the Wall of Sand based on the "Area" portion of the spell description, I'm inclined to think that if the Wall of Smoke really did cover the map in the same way, the spell would say so. Just like it does for the rest of the Wall spells in the SpC.

[Zanos]

A spell that touches any part of your grid space hits you. In your second example, all 5 combatants must save vs smoke.

[jmax]

Interesting.

The problem here is the lack of specificity in the what the Wall of Smoke actually is. Despite the fact that the area of the spell is measured in 10 ft cubes, there is also this to consider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#area):



Based on the description of the spell, and the fact that the point of origin for area spells must always be on a grid intersection, a Wall of Smoke, when conjured, sits on the border of grid squares without actually affecting the occupants of the squares that it borders.

For the sake of visual clarity let's picture this:
https://i.imgur.com/s8rHI61.png

Here we have a team of three bad guys against a two good guys.
Now let's say the 3rd level Wizard behind them drops a wall of smoke on the grid intersection between the two teams. That would then look like this:
https://i.imgur.com/n1KOYAU.png

Three 10 foot cubes that start on a grid intersection, and the rest of the spell still applies. Combatants can attack through the wall with a miss chance, and should they attempt to pass through it they are subject to the Fortitude save.

Compare that to the spell Wall of Sand, in the SpC right before Wall of Smoke, which explicitly states it creates a 10-ft. thick wall.

Centered on the indicated point in space, that would look like this:
https://i.imgur.com/2KEUBmQ.png
Based on the description of the spell the three bad guys are quite certainly be affected by it, which states that they are blinded, cannot move more than 5-feet, and are subject to the suffocation rules.

While you can make the argument that the area for Wall of Smoke should be identical to the Wall of Sand based on the "Area" portion of the spell description, I'm inclined to think that if the Wall of Smoke really did cover the map in the same way, the spell would say so. Just like it does for the rest of the Wall spells in the SpC.

Thank you for the great visual explanation. What are you using to create the visuals, and where did you get the interesting square icons?


One minor nitpick - which I think actually supports your argument rather than detracting from it - is that Wall of Smoke creates


straight wall whose area is up to one 10-ft. square/level (S)

rather than 10-ft cubes.


EDIT: Zanos posted essentially at the same time as I did.


A spell that touches any part of your grid space hits you. In your second example, all 5 combatants must save vs smoke.

Can you provide a citation for that?

[Doctor Awkward]

A spell that touches any part of your grid space hits you. In your second example, all 5 combatants must save vs smoke.

I'm not aware of that rule either.
I know that for spells that generate line effects, you draw a straight line from any corner of your square out to the distance the line travels (as is stated in the same section on the SRD I linked with Spell Descriptions) and that any square that line passes through is affected by the spell.

But that is for line spells. Wall of Smoke's area isn't a line. it's 10 ft. squares.

Additionally, assuming my read is correct, the Wall it isn't touching the squares in question, it is resting on the border between them.


Thank you for the great visual explanation. What are you using to create the visuals, and where did you get the interesting square icons?

Ye Olde Mapmaker (http://www.yeoldemapmaker.com/editor/)

I was just using furniture to represent creatures, and the walls to represent spell areas.

[Zombulian]

WARNING: If you love Wall of Smoke, your DM lets you use it the way you like it, and you don't want it to be ruined for you forever, stop reading!



Ok, everyone properly warned? Good.



I keep seeing people (and handbooks) say Wall of Smoke (SpC 235) is amazing because you can conjure it on top of creatures to force a save against the nausea. I can see how one could stretch the writing to make it sound almost plausible that it can work that way, but the much more plausible definition seems that the spell is just not particularly well written.

The interpretation that the effect can be conjured on top of things seems to be based on "whose area is up to one 10-ft. square/level". Nearly every Wall spell I can find has a similar specification with the exceptions of Wall of Fire (which specifies height and length) and Wall of Thorns, which specifies 10-ft cubes.

The difference with all of the other Wall spells (thorns and fire aside) is that explicitly specify thickness, usually in terms of inches per caster level and in reference to the object hardness tables. The assertion seems to be that Wall of Smoke doesn't specify a thickness and therefore it inherently creates cubes... but the spell absolutely does not say that, and in fact it does specify a thickness.



Emphasis mine.

I can see only two possible ways to interpret that in conjunction with the area definition.


The wall is vertical and of negligible thickness.
The wall doesn't have to be vertical but is of negligible thickness.


In the case of the former, you cannot conjure it on top of another creature unless either (a) that creature is larger than Medium, or (b) you aren't restricted to combat grid lines. In either case, said creature hasn't actually passed through the wall and therefore shouldn't have to save against nausea unless they move in such a manner that the bulk of their space has transitioned from being on one side of the wall to the other. This makes encountering the effect strictly voluntary, considerably weakening the spell.

In the case of the latter, you can conjure the wall horizontally so that it intersects all creatures in a horizontal area. They still haven't passed through it, although a weak argument could be made that they do so if they move from their current positions. However, at that point the spell isn't really a wall anymore. It's a ceiling, a floor, or a field.


In conclusion, I think the evidence overwhelmingly points to the interpretation that the wall is meant to be vertical (or mostly vertical) and of negligible thickness. You cannot conjure it in such a way to force a save against nausea immediately. It is, therefore, a fairly weak spell even by 1st-level standards - and at CL1 it's all but useless because it's trivially easy to walk around it.



Thoughts?

I think your interpretation is correct, but your valuing of the spell is not. Sure, the wording of the spell is that it specifically only affects those who walk through it, so the question of dropping it directly on someone's head wouldn't work anyway (regardless of conjuration spell rules). But it's still a first level spell that provides impressive amounts of CC and interesting teamwork opportunities.
Pair it with Cloudy Conjuration as a caster with minimum CL 2 and you can drop a smoke cloud in someone's space that no-save sickens them, but surround their space with the smoke wall so leaving the sickening space forces *another* save.
Drop it down as easy concealment for your party to get past archers or ranged casters (and if you have a Truenamer in your party, use the Archer's Eye utterance to fire back on them with impunity).
Line the battlefield with it to cover your melee party-mates' flanks.
Used cleverly, it's a 1st level spell that can create serious lose-lose scenarios for your enemies.

[Zanos]

I'm not aware of that rule either.
I know that for spells that generate line effects, you draw a straight line from any corner of your square out to the distance the line travels (as is stated in the same section on the SRD I linked with Spell Descriptions) and that any square that line passes through is affected by the spell.

But that is for line spells. Wall of Smoke's area isn't a line. it's 10 ft. squares.
I'll have to double check, I might have been thinking of the rule for line spells specifically.


Additionally, assuming my read is correct, the Wall it isn't touching the squares in question, it is resting on the border between them.
I don't think such a concept exists. It's definitely touching the edges of all those grid spaces.

[jmax]

I think your interpretation is correct, but your valuing of the spell is not. Sure, the wording of the spell is that it specifically only affects those who walk through it, so the question of dropping it directly on someone's head wouldn't work anyway (regardless of conjuration spell rules). But it's still a first level spell that provides impressive amounts of CC and interesting teamwork opportunities.
Pair it with Cloudy Conjuration as a caster with minimum CL 2 and you can drop a smoke cloud in someone's space that no-save sickens them, but surround their space with the smoke wall so leaving the sickening space forces *another* save.
Drop it down as easy concealment for your party to get past archers or ranged casters (and if you have a Truenamer in your party, use the Archer's Eye utterance to fire back on them with impunity).
Line the battlefield with it to cover your melee party-mates' flanks.
Used cleverly, it's a 1st level spell that can create serious lose-lose scenarios for your enemies.

That's an interesting approach. I've never run a character with Cloudy Conjuration, though, so it's never come up.

It also relies on "straight" referring to segments rather than the whole thing. I think there's a decent argument for that because it has the (S) shapable tag, but it's at least ambiguous. If you can use it to surround someone and force them to run through it or stay stationary, that's considerably better.


I'm not aware of that rule either.
Ye Olde Mapmaker (http://www.yeoldemapmaker.com/editor/)

I was just using furniture to represent creatures, and the walls to represent spell areas.

Interesting. I don't have Flash installed, but I may have to fire up a throw-away browser to try it. Thanks!