What kind of Niche Would you Give Centaurs in Your Setting? [Archive]

strangebloke

2018-04-15, 10:45 PM

No this isn't a homebrew thread. There are lots of good solutions out there. I'm using this one (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/H1NA5deT)currently.

I'm more asking... what would you do with them in a custom dnd setting? What sort of niche could they occupy? I like how they look and how different they are, but I struggle with placing them in my setting. There's nothing wrong with using a fantasy grab-bag, it just isn't my style.

Stuff I've tried:
1: Centaurs are elves. Specifically, they are elves who undergo a ritual to fuse themselves to their horses. The magic of this ritual is a closely guarded secret, and only the most honored amongst the elves are given the privilege of becoming a centaur.

This wasn't popular with my players, mostly because no one seemed interested in playing a guy from the planes, but also because no one wanted to start with their laurels already won, so to speak. People who wanted a more barbarian vibe went for the mountains or forest. (Originally got this idea from the Monster Manual Thread.)

2: Centaurs are professional soldiers, every one. They are considered the finest of knights, and all of the truly noble houses have a tribe of Centaurs serving them. The tribes are often on the opposite sides of various wars, but they all know and respect each other, and many of them are related, due to the constant intermarriage.

I've yet to use this one in play, but I'm expecting it will be a little weird. Centaurs in an urban environment is a little strange. Do they sleep in the inn or in the stable? Do they come into the bar to eat with everyone? How does that all work?

Stuff I've Seen Done
1: Centaurs are a races of wise mystics living in the wilds. I don't like this one because I think 'outlander mystic' is a pretty crowded racial design space, what with elves, firbolgs, gnomes, etc. I don't know, maybe my biases are showing. This is certainly the most common interpretation I see used. Chronicles of Narnia, Harry Potter, etc. You can't fault the classics!

2: Greek Centaurs (who aren't wise mystics). Yeah, not going to touch this with an 11-foot pole. Suffice to say, very wild, very rough, and very raucous. I guess it is a unique design space, but it doesn't really feel... thematically(?) appropriate for a game of DND.

3: Centaurs are physical adepts with weak minds. This is mostly Banner Saga and a few YA series I've binged. I like it, but it doesn't make for very good PCs.

HandofBlades

2018-04-15, 11:20 PM

What I have done with centaurs has varried from campaign to campaign and some have gone over well. Others not so much. One option I did was broke them into clans and had it set up very horse lords of the steppe kind of deal with large clans competing for dominance among the clans to be a great khan. Think mongol style warriors and did a bit of research into the steppe clans to figure out how things went and operated. Another approach I have done is they are a small almost endangered race with a great deal of mistrust of outsiders. With the final idea being they were a failed experiment by a wizard to create a powerful mounted army to help him take over the world but broke free and the herds have been seeking their own place in the world ever since in an eternal nomad style life.

First one well received second not well liked and the third the campaign didn't get far enough to really matter much. It is more present something interesting to your players and see what they latch into and expand that bit of lore.

JoeJ

2018-04-15, 11:30 PM

Unoriginal

2018-04-16, 12:44 AM

I picture them as mostly an isolatinist people, who tolerate but don't like humanoids' presence, and in general are content with their nomadic or semi-nomadic lives

MrStabby

2018-04-16, 12:55 AM

I run them the Greek way. Hedonism all the way, really playing up the contrast with the more "civilised" cities and a useful counterpoint. Use druid magic with wild surges for their casters.

Dalinale

2018-04-16, 01:05 AM

MrStabby

2018-04-16, 01:15 AM

I have tried other forms as well: lion centaurs being one. Very lawful, very martial. Never really took the players imagination though and they opted to explore other areas of the world instead.

Unoriginal

2018-04-16, 01:24 AM

I have tried other forms as well: lion centaurs being one. Very lawful, very martial. Never really took the players imagination though and they opted to explore other areas of the world instead.

Lion centaurs, like the DnD Lamia?

MrStabby

2018-04-16, 01:27 AM

Lion centaurs, like the DnD Lamia?

No, different ethos. Different culture.

Afrodactyl

2018-04-16, 06:13 AM

If I use centaurs, I generally like to use them Greek-style (individualistic, wild, aggressive), or as a nomadic people kind of deal. The thought of nomads who are their own pack-horse speaks to me.

Aett_Thorn

2018-04-16, 06:30 AM

Lion centaurs, like the DnD Lamia?

Or Wemics, if you want more of a civilization.

strangebloke

2018-04-16, 06:56 AM

Centaurs are Scythians. They live as nomadic tribes on the steppe, hunting, raiding, and occasionally coming into town to trade for things they can't make. They wear lots of gold jewelry, are fond of strong drink, and consider hit and run tactics to be perfectly honorable.
This is similar to how I ran them as elves. The elves were 'steppe' elves, and were generally a pretty vicious horse culture.

I picture them as mostly an isolatinist people, who tolerate but don't like humanoids' presence, and in general are content with their nomadic or semi-nomadic lives
This is fine, the problem is, shoehorning them into the rest of the setting. Isolationists from a narrative perspective don't have much to offer a story, beyond "well we wish we could help you, but..."

You either let them have their little perfect isolationist kingdom, or you have them get bummed by the bbeg, either way it's not my favorite trope.

A bit of side A, a little of side B. Centaurs tend to value what is in front of them and do not tend towards wandering mentally; they are fond of living, above else. Centaurs, peaceful or warlike, are nomadic, and as such they actually have little in regards to downtime; they celebrate what they have with great enthusiasm. They are, in fact, a disciplined race, but humanioids often gain the wrong impression when they come across them when they have settled down for a season and start buying up barrels of ale and the occasional humanoid wrench.
This I really like. I might work this into my "centaurs as soldiers" idea. Though I'm not touching human/centaur relationships with an 11 foot pole in my games.

Rogerdodger557

2018-04-16, 07:26 AM

strangebloke

2018-04-16, 07:38 AM

In the world I'm building, I'll be basing them off of Chiron. Disciplined, well trained in whatever arts they pursue, and are excellent teachers. Call me biased if you will(you'd be right), but I really like the version image of centaur teachers.

Yeah, although you can work in the aspect of 'teachers' into most of the other ideas. If they're professional soldiers, they're probably the best qualified to train the young lord in weapon use. (or maybe not, considering the differences in body type.) If they're mystical isolationists, maybe going on a quest to seek the wisdom of the centaurs is a thing that people do.

I mean, if they're scythians or bestial you really can't.

Naanomi

2018-04-16, 07:47 AM

In my current game, centaurs are nomadic people... most living a sort of ‘Romani’ lifestylle, but some more mercantile caravaneers. One country (sort of Holland as an agrarian paradise) has a population of settled centaur living alongside Halflings being peaceful farmer types (inspires by the farmer and his daughter in Quest for Glory)

EvilAnagram

2018-04-16, 07:50 AM

Unoriginal

2018-04-16, 08:17 AM

This is fine, the problem is, shoehorning them into the rest of the setting. Isolationists from a narrative perspective don't have much to offer a story, beyond "well we wish we could help you, but..."

That's rather dismissive of the concept. Isolationniste people aren't "shoehorned in the narrative", they're just people who don't want to be involved with outsiders. They're inhabitants of the world you may encounter, and if the plot happens near their territory, the plot just happens to not give a damn about what they want.

Also, isolationism, at least how I used it, doesn't mean "we wish we could help you, but...", it's "get off our lawn. The whole plain is our lawn".

My take on Centaurs would have no issue helping if they needed to. They simply really wish they wouldn't need to.

You either let them have their little perfect isolationist kingdom, or you have them get bummed by the bbeg, either way it's not my favorite trope.

Sorry if I sound rude, but you seem to read implications in my post that aren't there.

What "perfect little isoliationist kingdom"? There is nothing about the Centaurs. They're a bunch of tribes who lives a pretty harsh life due to their limited ressources and technology, don't want to trade or interact with humanoids despite the advantages and comfort it'd bring to them due to thinking they're superior, and who suffer a strong "basket of crabs" effect when one of them wishes to leave or to suggest maybe dealing with humanoids would be worth it. They're not sadistic or imperialistic or bloodthirsty toward other species, but it doesn't make them perfect. They just demand to be left in isolation as much as possible.

As for getting bummed by the BBEG, well, it's possible it happens to one tribe. But that's the case of any people the BBEG attack, and even threatening one Centaur tribe is a good way to get all of them involved in the plot until the situation is safe for them to get back to isolation.

EvilAnagram

2018-04-16, 08:48 AM

hymer

2018-04-16, 09:17 AM

I had some centaurs with a peculiar biology and origin in a campaign a while ago. They, along with various other 'beastmen' and crossbreeds, were created by an Ancient One (long story; not quite gods, and not that coherent a group, but all very powerful), who had been travelling about the world, and became obsessed with making his own people. The various beastmen (sorry, ladies, the name is kinda old) were experiments left to their own devices once the experiment had been performed. Much later, the centaurs broke away from their beastmen brethren, as they found themselves much better suited to a life as nomads. As such they spread to a parallel plane of existence, along with various of the halfbreeds who followed once word came back of the way to go through the tear between the worlds.
The centaur males are all very strong, very docile, and not very bright. Most of them never speak, but they are usually quite musical. The males are also rare, maybe one in twenty births. They also play no reproductive role (I can go into that if anyone should feel curious enough), but are important in the tribes for hauling stuff around, or even carrying the sick or injured, to suit the nomadic culture. A few very rare males have managed to become strong fighters, but the very vast majority are too docile to be any good in a fight.
The females form the bulk of the tribe, and usually a trio of elders make decisions that need to be made quickly, or when there's doubt about the consensus. The trio consists of the oldest female, the most accomplished warrior, and a soothsayer or religious leader (usually a druid). Sometimes there's some overlap in these roles, in which cases someone is elevated to elder by the nearest to consensus among he tribe.
Centaurs are very unhappy about being alone, and they have a very keen sense of smell. Their favoured way of fighting is with bow and arrow, shooting and retreating. They usually keep their magic-capable members secret from outsiders, as these were considered (from beastmen days) to have stolen their skill from the Ancient One who made them, in a sort of Promethean way. They must thus be protected, and the centaur collective is very close.
The centaurs they PCs dealt with had a surprising alliance with hobgoblins, who tolerate the centaurs in their lands (another long story). This makes them a valuable go-betweens for anyone looking to make diplomacy or trade with hobgoblins. And since nearly all the nomadic tribes are in contact via their druidic network, their value as intelligence sources is enormous for anyone who can gain their trust.
The tribe the PCs dealt with had a lot of plains indian in their inspiration, but their separations means that each tribe can have quite a different culture, perhaps owing to influence from any alliance they have made with those who make farms and cities (like with the mentioned hobgoblins).

strangebloke

2018-04-16, 09:17 AM

That's rather dismissive of the concept. Isolationniste people aren't "shoehorned in the narrative", they're just people who don't want to be involved with outsiders. They're inhabitants of the world you may encounter, and if the plot happens near their territory, the plot just happens to not give a damn about what they want.

Also, isolationism, at least how I used it, doesn't mean "we wish we could help you, but...", it's "get off our lawn. The whole plain is our lawn".

My take on Centaurs would have no issue helping if they needed to. They simply really wish they wouldn't need to.

Sorry if I sound rude, but you seem to read implications in my post that aren't there.

What "perfect little isoliationist kingdom"? There is nothing about the Centaurs. They're a bunch of tribes who lives a pretty harsh life due to their limited ressources and technology, don't want to trade or interact with humanoids despite the advantages and comfort it'd bring to them due to thinking they're superior, and who suffer a strong "basket of crabs" effect when one of them wishes to leave or to suggest maybe dealing with humanoids would be worth it. They're not sadistic or imperialistic or bloodthirsty toward other species, but it doesn't make them perfect. They just demand to be left in isolation as much as possible.

As for getting bummed by the BBEG, well, it's possible it happens to one tribe. But that's the case of any people the BBEG attack, and even threatening one Centaur tribe is a good way to get all of them involved in the plot until the situation is safe for them to get back to isolation.

So, I was reading too much into your post.

I mean, in a lot of fantasy, the heroes are trying to get allies against the evil empire, and the world is pretty bad on average. (because otherwise, why does it need to be saved?) An isolationist kingdom in such a context is usually a pretty nice place, after all, they have the luxury of not worrying about BBEG, so they must be better off than everyone else. So the first thing the heroes do when they come into contact with the isolationists is that they issue a call to action against the forces of evil. They're the heroes, it's what they do. Usually, either the isolationists cave to the heroes' arguments or they don't and then they get stomped by the BBEG and everyone shakes their heads sadly. "We tried to warn them." OR they suffer NO consequences at the hands of the BBEG and its shown that they were right all along, which to my mind rather reduces the potency of your BBEG.

It's a set of tropes I'm a tad bored with, because it is everywhere. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Eragon, LotR... with the added note that Centaurs are frequently depicted as sages of the wild, I immediately thought I knew what you were talking about. I was wrong, and I apologize.

I still find it hard to attach them to the plot. They don't want to deal with outsiders... So why are the PCs dealing with them? I recognize that this is a well-established space (Firbolgs and Wood Elves) as far as race design goes, it just isn't one I like.

strangebloke

2018-04-16, 09:22 AM

I'm going to come out heavily in favor of isolationist societies in a setting. Structurally, introducing a potentially helpful group that is apathetic to the heroes' plight forces the heroes to justify the value of their struggle. When the heroes say orcs are laying siege, and the kingdom needs the centaurs' help, the centaurs' apathy forces them to justify why it is important to everyone. It creates room for more depth in the game.

I guess I'm fine with isolationist societies, but not isolationist races. Or even that I'd be fine with races that have other things going on than just isolationism and some other generic traits. It just feels a bit too much like the race is a human wearing a hat. "We're the isolationist humans who like nature/freedom/farming!"

Dr. Cliché

2018-04-16, 09:22 AM

I'd be tempted to make them almost an equivalent to Driders - in that they weren't born centaurs but rather were made into such as a punishment.

A related possibility would be to say that, at some point in the past, a great many men were turned into centaurs to make them more useful for war. However, when the war ended, they were told that they couldn't be turned back. And whilst some may have been initially sympathetic, many quickly grew increasingly fed up with them, leading to them bring driven out of the cities they had helped to defend.

EvilAnagram

2018-04-16, 09:43 AM

I guess I'm fine with isolationist societies, but not isolationist races. Or even that I'd be fine with races that have other things going on than just isolationism and some other generic traits. It just feels a bit too much like the race is a human wearing a hat. "We're the isolationist humans who like nature/freedom/farming!"

I agree that the trope can be done poorly, and it's often when they serve to create the author's ideal society so they can preach at you for half an hour. However, when I think it's useful to force players to consider their positions. Asking them to explain why others should help them forces them to confront their own motivations and defend them.

Alternatively, the isolationist societies in Critical Role end up critiquing isolationism simply through one PC's interactions with them. There is plenty of meat on that trope.

Wilb

2018-04-16, 10:13 AM

In my setting, Centaurs come from a race of fey that died out defending the last few Asperi, due to their race having been saved by these horses in ancient times. A nature god then raised both these fey and the Asperi and fused them.

Centaurs have a fly speed equal to their land speed and constant pass without trace. They may live between a hundred to a thousand years old (yes, very varied), being considered adults at 50 years. When they die, whatever the cause, they separate, with an immortal fey of the old type being born in a secluded place in the Feywild and a newborn Asperi being born in the material plane, formed from the body of the dead Centaur. The Centaurs don't know the location of the Fey born this way, and they are magically compelled, by the god that created them, to never tell the original name of their race to outsiders.

Some Centaurs can communicate with these ancestors that now live in the Feywild, these becoming Nature clerics or druids and generally being among the leaders of communities they live in.

They act as messengers between fey groups in the material plane, including gnomes and elves. They feel no hunger nor thirst and they can't tire, so they just run around forever when they need to deliver a message. They live in isolated communities located in places that can't be reached without flight or the use of secret passages that open only to fey (and elves & gnomes), and they like to turn whatever place they live into dense magical forests with giant trees, using their free time to cultivate the land, as mortals, even if they are in a high mountaintop, an island or even an isolated plateau inside a colossal underground dungeon.

Strangely enough, they don't live close to the Asperi born of them. Asperi tend to enjoy the company of mortals, being very gullible and practically harmless to anyone before being harmed first, which contribute to their perpetually low numbers, even if Centaurs thrive.

I grokked Asperi to be just wingless NG pegasi with the Ethereal Stride of the Nightmare, but connecting with the Elemental Plane of Air or the Feywild instead.

Unoriginal

2018-04-16, 10:25 AM

So, I was reading too much into your post.

I mean, in a lot of fantasy, the heroes are trying to get allies against the evil empire, and the world is pretty bad on average. (because otherwise, why does it need to be saved?) An isolationist kingdom in such a context is usually a pretty nice place, after all, they have the luxury of not worrying about BBEG, so they must be better off than everyone else. So the first thing the heroes do when they come into contact with the isolationists is that they issue a call to action against the forces of evil. They're the heroes, it's what they do. Usually, either the isolationists cave to the heroes' arguments or they don't and then they get stomped by the BBEG and everyone shakes their heads sadly. "We tried to warn them." OR they suffer NO consequences at the hands of the BBEG and its shown that they were right all along, which to my mind rather reduces the potency of your BBEG.

I see what you mean, though personally I'd say that rather being constantly in peril/horrible, it makes more sense if the world is in danger because on of the bad guys managed to do more than the usual. Like, sure, Elder Brains do horrible things to people through the Mind Flayers, but it's only when one of them manage to do something outside of the ordinary that the adventure is set in motion. Even if it's only "attack the city the PCs are in".

Basically, the Centaurs would "cave in" when the PCs ask for help... if they're convinced that they can't afford to refuse, or that they simply offered something the Centaurs desired enough, to overcome their distaste for the idea.

Drum the Demon Lord might annihilate a few tribes during his scheme, or leave them alone because they're not important nor fun, but that certainly doesn't make them an utopic society.

It's a set of tropes I'm a tad bored with, because it is everywhere. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Eragon, LotR... with the added note that Centaurs are frequently depicted as sages of the wild, I immediately thought I knew what you were talking about. I was wrong, and I apologize.

It's ok, I assume things about others' ideas, too. Hell, if we didn't assume things about what the other says, we couldn't communicate, except by literal, total descriptions of everything.

I still find it hard to attach them to the plot. They don't want to deal with outsiders... So why are the PCs dealing with them? I recognize that this is a well-established space (Firbolgs and Wood Elves) as far as race design goes, it just isn't one I like.

As I said: they don't want to, but the plot doesn't care about what they want.

The BBEG plans to take control of their territory, and the PCs can help dealing with it.

A centaur child was kidnapped. The Centaurs demand that the PCs find them.

One of the bad guys is a legendary being who destroys all who try to fight them, but stories say they were once defeated by a Centaur champion. Now the PCs must go to the bottom of it.

A strange Centaur is slowly but surely gathering power by beating the tribes' best combatants into submission. Is it linked to the demonic cult the PCs are investigating.

For generations, the Blue Stones have been one of the Centaurs most permanent settlement, and a trading hub for tribes and for difficultly accepted but necessary outsiders. Too bad Granny Goodwill and her coven of hags need the place for their new ritual.

That kind of things.

Also, in my world the Firbolgs are less isolationist and more "lives in small communities in areas most don't care much about", and the Wood Elves are too wild and, well, faeric to be isolationist, it's just that visiting them is like visiting a party animal who who's full of life and of mirth, but always has brass knuckles ready in case a fight start, if you get what I mean.

Monster Manuel

2018-04-16, 10:31 AM

Kind of a non-answer, but what kind of niche do you NEED them to fill in your world? I like to try to figure out where my game is going, and then fill the niches based on what is likely to be useful.

Let's say you decide that centaurs are the pre-eminent sailors on your world (I wouldn't, but let's say you did). Then the players never set foot on a ship. you;ve got this nice role for Centaurs to play, but it never comes up.

I've done Centaurs as Messengers before; disciplined and honorable and diligent about taking their clients' privacy seriously, if you have a message or a package that has to get to another city without being disturbed, you go to the Centaurs. The need to get a message back to a contact in another city was bound to come up, so I knew my Spartan Pony Express would definitely get used.

PS, I didn't call them the Pony Express. The players started doing it anyway.

KorvinStarmast

2018-04-16, 10:49 AM

Teamsters. You want something hauled, the centaurs are the best bet. The strength of a horse, but the smarts of a person, they're clever and capable workers. They've been hell to work with since they unionized, though. Nice one.

When the heroes say orcs are laying siege, and the kingdom needs the centaurs' help, the centaurs' apathy forces them to justify why it is important to everyone. It creates room for more depth in the game. Yeah.

I'd be tempted to make them almost an equivalent to Driders - in that they weren't born centaurs but rather were made into such as a punishment.

I have a different picture of the alternate centaur, informed by the World of Tiers series written by Philip Jose Farmer. The Amerind level (book 3) features Kickaha interacting with centaurs native to an alternate version of the North American setting. Worth a look. (Book 3 = A Private Cosmos). Original Cover Art was not, I think, by Vallejo but the edition that I read was (https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1330668407l/591785.jpg).

https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1330668407l/591785.jpg
Originally published in 1968, I got my copy in the mid-late 1970's.

Zippdementia

2018-04-16, 10:58 AM

With something as unique and steeped in real life mythology as the Centaur I would say you want to avoid using them in your scenarios unless they really have a strong role to play in the overall plot. If a centaur shows up in a game, I'd hope that eventually the players would have to visit the horselords in their own domain, whether that be wide open plains and savannahs or dense forests (or even mountainous passes).

One possible scenario is that the centaurs are a proud race and when their civilization comes under attack by a great evil (possibly an Illithid invasion which is slowly converting the tribes into instruments of destruction), they do not seek outside aid. Instead, they fight back unsuccessfully as their society becomes converted. Eventually this draws the attention of nearby civilizations, as centaurs are forced by their new masters to perform raids on these fringe societies.

Of course, the response is predictable: the local sherifs decide it is time to erradicate those "hedonistic" centaurs once and for all and start offering bounties to "centaur hunters." The players start out as a group of would be hunters, but during a hunt are approached by a centaur who breaks with his tribe's tradition and seeks their aid to help rid the tribes of the Illithids. Cue epic adventure.

Rashagar

2018-04-16, 10:59 AM

Undead centaurs are the best centaurs.

That's the kind of niche they'd probably have in my games anyway. Extinct, but still a mobile threat and a visual reminder of the horrors of some past atrocity that still carries ramifications to this day.

strangebloke

2018-04-16, 11:50 AM

I had some centaurs with a peculiar biology and origin in a campaign a while ago.
That seems very weird and alien, particularly with the extreme dimorphism and asexual(?) reproduction. I can see it being very appropriate for a swords'n sorcery type campaign. I'm personally looking at integrating Centaurs as a player race, and I feel like this wouldn't work for that. Still, very nice!

In my setting, Centaurs come from a race of fey that died out defending the last few Asperi, due to their race having been saved by these horses in ancient times. A nature god then raised both these fey and the Asperi and fused them.
This is interesting, but this isn't what I'd consider a "niche" in a setting. I should probably unpack that idea more because I don't think my OP is very clear.

When I'm talking about a race having a "niche" in a setting, I'm talking about them having aesthetics and ideas that don't overlap with anything else.

Like, Hobgoblins are the premier lawful evil humanoid. They conquer, subjugate, all that stuff. If you make orcs into a lawful neutral race that's all about conquest and subjugation you've basically made both races a lot lamer because they conceptually overlap. The hobgoblins have the niche of LE conquest and subj

Centaurs as a race of mystic sages? IMO there's some overlap with elves, but it's still a start.

I agree that the trope can be done poorly, and it's often when they serve to create the author's ideal society so they can preach at you for half an hour. However, when I think it's useful to force players to consider their positions. Asking them to explain why others should help them forces them to confront their own motivations and defend them.

Alternatively, the isolationist societies in Critical Role end up critiquing isolationism simply through one PC's interactions with them. There is plenty of meat on that trope.
I just think a group that's apathetic to the heroes' plight specifically, and not to the fate of the world in general is more believable and interesting than someone who is just an isolationist.

Like, if you want to persuade an isolationist to help, you're arguing against isolationism. If you want to persuade someone that doesn't believe in your holy quest, you're arguing that your holy quest is holy. Which I find more interesting.

I think there were plenty examples of both in Critical Role.

*hooks*
Fair, fair. Good plot hooks.

I am looking at this as a PC race, too, which does change some things. Last time I did this no one wanted to be from a tribe of nomads living way off in the boonies, or if they did, they wanted to be a goliath or half-orc. Obviously a PC can be from an isolationist tribe, that's just something my table didn't like last time.

PS, I didn't call them the Pony Express. The players started doing it anyway.
This varies a bit towards centaurs as "humans with hats" which is a fine way of doing things, just not really what I'm interested in. Like, how did the centaurs come to run the Mail service?

I guess that's actually something that I could add into my 'soldiers' niche come to think of it. I already had centaurs as trusted servants, makes sense they'd be messengers as well. (Though if Aaracockra exist, they'd be faster over rough terrain if they had regular relay stations)

With something as unique and steeped in real life mythology as the Centaur I would say you want to avoid using them in your scenarios unless they really have a strong role to play in the overall plot. If a centaur shows up in a game, I'd hope that eventually the players would have to visit the horselords in their own domain, whether that be wide open plains and savannahs or dense forests (or even mountainous passes).

*hook*
Oh, for sure. I complain about a lot of stuff, but the 1-representative-race is just the worst. If there's a centaur, there're a lot of centaurs, and you will meet them.

That hook is decent. Similar to some of Unoriginals. Me likey.

Hobbo Jim

2018-04-16, 12:17 PM

strangebloke

2018-04-16, 01:59 PM

I don't know what kind of tones you want your campaign to have, but after someone mentioned they make good workers, I could definitely see them being ran as a slave race. As mentioned, they are strong as a horse, have hands to do whatever else you might need, and are just as intelligent as others, making them easy to communicate with, though they would probably be treated like if not worse than a horse. This could make for some interesting plot points. There might be a couple of nomadic tribes that accept those who break free of their chains, and are extremely skeptical of other races because they are worried they will get enslaved. This is especially useful if you wanted to go down the isolationist route - rescuing an enslaved centaur would make for a reason to meet a tribe, but they also aren't forced to if they aren't interested. Alternatively, for the evil characters they could help the slavers.
Making them slaves makes for a very big tonal shift, yeah. It's like throwing an elven beggar or an orcish painter at the PCs in the first five minutes of the game.

No, they definitely work for that theme. I already sort of have that with minotaurs as janissaries. Bought from wild tribes as children, raised to fight for the high king.

I'm giving them a big rivalry with my martial centaurs.

MagneticKitty

2018-04-16, 03:18 PM

strangebloke

2018-04-16, 04:55 PM

What about:
centaur live in cities with other races, most of them are city guards or millitia. They value protecting their home more than the people in it, and may serve new rule if their town gets taken over. They care for history and have a long memory for past events and often hold grudges.

Cebtaur that leave or are exiled may become Messengers and traveling sales people (Mobile cart shops) or adventurers.

Yeah, it's a thing that's underappreciated in fantasy, IMO, that prior to the automobile horses and donkeys were extremely commonplace in the city for use by police, horse-and-buggy cabbies, industrial mills... even some of the early power plants were just donkeys (or Irishmen) at turnstiles.

Centaurs as knights/cops is just such a funny image to me. I just... I played this crappy turn-based RPG called shining force when I was a kid and I thought that it was really cool how the knights were just centaurs. Like, duh, the horse people are the best... horse people. Just felt like a very funny, natural thing in the setting.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQG3FZK7iEKzPq_vfUsM77vCwPxvX08k gRJ6PHVfCXyCwsV8vK_

Akolyte01

2018-04-16, 05:29 PM

Centaur don't really make such as a natural race. If I were to include them in a setting at all they'd be a magically created hybrid. Beastmen/minotaurs are a much better inclusion IMO.

JackPhoenix

2018-04-16, 08:22 PM

Glue. They aren't good for anything else. There's no need to have dozens or hundreds of sapient races in the setting.

If I decide to include them at all, I'm inclined to go with living weapons left from ancient war, similar to other half-human, half-beast hybrids. There was this wizard/powerful entity/empire (choose what you want) that created beastmen races to turn humans into better soldiers. Harpies? Air force. Centaurs? Cavalry. (Wolf/dog-based) not-gnolls? General infantry. Minotaurs? Shock troops. Lizardfolk? Marines. Centuries/Millenia later, the creator is gone, the creations are kept the militant mindset and aggression, though they are pretty rare and not very technologically or magically advanced. As obedience was part of the original template, they make good resource for any would-be world conqueror who can find out how to command them.

Alternatively, just rip-off Warhammer's beastmen, though that tends to stray into the not-touching-with-11-foot-pole territory.

oxybe

2018-04-16, 11:29 PM

A subset of monsters, specifically chimeras, that also include the likes of the Owlbear and Minotaur. Basically a centaur is an inherently unnatural thing, created by a foul experiment and held together by the dark arts' equivalent of staples and duct tape. Whoever the top half was is now likely corrupted and lost to the ether.

In the best case scenario, the resulting creature is largely benign and somewhat intelligent/sapient. Worst case scenario, the corruption goes full tilt and they're mindless and set upon on a murderous rampage, putting the full, raw power of a workhorse and the cunning of man to bear on whatever is in their way.

In this case you would find tauric creatures of various different races and creatures, from horse/human, scorpion/tieflings, wolves/goblins, moose/orcs, spiders/drow, etc... or any other combination the creator had on hand, likely because they wanted something that's tough, but also potentially smart and able to take commands.

Angelalex242

2018-04-16, 11:44 PM

I think it's best to stay with their greek roots.

Centaurs mostly hang out with Druids, because Druids can shapeshift and that lets them keep up.

There's a lot of centaurs hanging around places of learning, like bardic colleges and wizard schools (for Chiron types)

Then there's the party centaurs who want to find all the maidens willing to abuse the fact they're hung like a horse.

Although it's not true of Greek Myth, I prefer to think of Centaurs as an actual race that breeds true. (So, there are female centaurs, centaur foals, old centaurs, etc.)

EvilAnagram

2018-04-16, 11:53 PM

I'd like to see more people learn into the horse thing. Each centaur clan consists of a breeding male, seven or so mares, and a smattering of juveniles.

They constantly have to defend against wolftaurs, which have the torsos and upper bodies of wolves, but from the waist down have the forelegs and body of an entirely separate wolf. They can only look up.

oxybe

2018-04-17, 12:25 AM

One problem with centaurs as a race is how developed are the infant human and infant horse halves?

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/a0PB5zZ_700b.jpg

Kane0

2018-04-17, 02:41 AM

I do my centaurs like the Mongol hordes. Control a huge area but restricted by terrain and climate, ruthless and efficient but fair to those they subjugate.

strangebloke

2018-04-17, 09:06 AM

Centaur don't really make such as a natural race. If I were to include them in a setting at all they'd be a magically created hybrid. Beastmen/minotaurs are a much better inclusion IMO.

If I decide to include them at all, I'm inclined to go with living weapons left from ancient war, similar to other half-human, half-beast hybrids.

Basically a centaur is an inherently unnatural thing, created by a foul experiment and held together by the dark arts' equivalent of staples and duct tape. Whoever the top half was is now likely corrupted and lost to the ether.
I don't think Centaurs are inherently more unnatural than Aarocockra, flumphs, bullettes, etc. DND ecology is pretty wet and wild. That said, I think the shear number of animal/human crossbreeds existing in DND does call for a unified explanation like this.

My unified explanation is: There are strange environs where the physical and the spiritual flow together. No one who lingers in those places can leave them unchanged. Most of the creatures born of these places are inhuman abberations and monstrosities, huge, disgusting beasts that hate all around them... but some, such as the minotaurs and the centaurs, retain their humanity and can function amongst their erstwhile kin.

I think it's best to stay with their greek roots.

Centaurs mostly hang out with Druids, because Druids can shapeshift and that lets them keep up.

There's a lot of centaurs hanging around places of learning, like bardic colleges and wizard schools (for Chiron types)

Then there's the party centaurs who want to find all the maidens willing to abuse the fact they're hung like a horse.

Although it's not true of Greek Myth, I prefer to think of Centaurs as an actual race that breeds true. (So, there are female centaurs, centaur foals, old centaurs, etc.)
This is definitely a way to use them, and I like having a race serve multiple functions. Granted, the party dudes are going to raise some eyebrows.

I'd like to see more people learn into the horse thing. Each centaur clan consists of a breeding male, seven or so mares, and a smattering of juveniles.

They constantly have to defend against wolftaurs, which have the torsos and upper bodies of wolves, but from the waist down have the forelegs and body of an entirely separate wolf. They can only look up.
I was following you until the wolftaurs. :smallbiggrin: werewolves would probably work just fine for that purpose.

One problem with centaurs as a race is how developed are the infant human and infant horse halves?

https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/a0PB5zZ_700b.jpg
Humorous as this is, it wouldn't really be a problem. Human babies are so poorly developed at birth mostly because we have huge heads relative to the rest of our bodies and our mothers couldn't push us out if the pregnancy lasted until we were fully developed. In the case of centaurs, the head is not large at all compared to the rest of their bodies.

I do my centaurs like the Mongol hordes. Control a huge area but restricted by terrain and climate, ruthless and efficient but fair to those they subjugate.
See, my only problem with this is that "Ruthless Lawful Conqueror" is already a hobgoblin thing. I don't want to mix roles too much, and I can't really fit centaurs in as part of hobgoblin society. I would sooner have them as highly effective raiders and bandits on the plains.

PhoenixPhyre

2018-04-17, 09:34 AM

If centaurs exist in my setting (which they've not been discovered yet so I'm not sure they exist), they'd live on the high plains of the southern continent and be the product of magical engineering by a ruling caste of high elves (like a bunch of other races, including orcs and humans in ages past). They'd probably have been designed as transport and ranching workers. The "wild" ones (those not directly ruled by racist high elf mage-lords) would probably be nomads and live a pastoral lifestyle.

Note: not all high elves in my setting are jerks. That southern group is explicitly a racial-caste-based mageocracy who believes themselves to be the rightful heirs of the old eladrin empire that ended when the first druids dropped a small moon on their capital and cracked a continent in half for being utter obnoxious jerks to anyone who wasn't a wizard. These aren't "ooh let's live in forests and be all wise" elves, these are "the world is our plaything and we'll shape it to our desires" elves.

DireSickFish

2018-04-17, 10:16 AM

They replace the Plains Horslords the 1 time I've included them. Like Dothraki but with less slaves/rape. But still plenty of plundering, and they move seasonally like Buffalo/nomads do. Hard for civilized cultures to interact with, and monster races feel their wrath most often. As they tend to already be in uncivilized areas, and as Adventuers show they can have some nice stuff. Plus cities and towns tend to be better defended. But they'll raid a farm or two regularly enough.

Akolyte01

2018-04-23, 05:27 PM

I don't think Centaurs are inherently more unnatural than Aarocockra, flumphs, bullettes, etc. DND ecology is pretty wet and wild. That said, I think the shear number of animal/human crossbreeds existing in DND does call for a unified explanation like this.

I think centaurs are much more 'problematic' than the other examples. Flumphs and bullettes are both fantastical, but are distinctly alien and non humanoid, so don't stick out nearly as much. Aarakocra, minotaurs, tabaxi etc are all animal men, but in ways that at least sort of make sense anatomically. But centaurs?? They're just 2 different things glued together in a way that doesn't make any sense. Two different rib cages. Where are their hearts??

The absurdity of how they are stapled together is highlighted by this humorous image. https://imgur.com/gallery/fAXFXq3

strangebloke

2018-04-23, 05:42 PM

I think centaurs are much more 'problematic' than the other examples. Flumphs and bullettes are both fantastical, but are distinctly alien and non humanoid, so don't stick out nearly as much. Aarakocra, minotaurs, tabaxi etc are all animal men, but in ways that at least sort of make sense anatomically. But centaurs?? They're just 2 different things glued together in a way that doesn't make any sense. Two different rib cages. Where are their hearts??

The absurdity of how they are stapled together is highlighted by this humorous image. https://imgur.com/gallery/fAXFXq3

That's a funny image, but I take serious issue with the assertion that aaracockra physiology makes any kind of anatomical sense.

I mean, sure, in a general sense, that is where the wings go, but that's also where the arms go, so how is this thing sporting both? That's got to be one heck of a complicated collarbone situation. And where are the breast muscles. You know, the muscles that make the wings go flap? With a balor or dragon or equivalently magical species, they at least have a massive chest space that could theoretically contain the muscles necessary... but with aaracockra, they're downright shrimpy!

Centaurs, by comparison actually work pretty well anatomically, even if it seems less organic. A horse is capable of supporting a human body at that joint, after all. The internal organ situation is, complex, sure, but there's no reason he couldn't have two hearts, or some other needlessly complicated situation.

Dr. Cliché

2018-04-23, 06:11 PM

But centaurs?? They're just 2 different things glued together in a way that doesn't make any sense. Two different rib cages. Where are their hearts??

This is a good point, actually. One might initially assume that a Centaur has two hearts, both in the normal positions within its respective parts.

Now, granted, there is an issue in that if a centaur had both a human heart and a horse heart, the latter would almost certainly be bigger and stronger (and so having them both trying to operate the same circulatory system is unlikely to end well).

However, it's possible that centaurs actually have two, independent circulatory systems. The first one, driven by the human heart, circulates blood around the upper torso, whilst the horse heart circulates blood around the lower (horse) portion. This could even be quite sensible, as a galloping centaur would need far more oxygen in its lower half than its upper half.

The issue comes with the lungs. If a centaur has two hearts, pumping at different rates, then they can't both be connected to the same pair of lungs. Moreover, even if they were, there's no way that a human's lungs could take in enough oxygen to feed a horse-sized body, let alone give it enough to enable it to gallop.

Now, the horse portion of a centaur does have a chest cavity which could well still contain lungs. But if such lungs exist, through what means do they intake air? I don't think they could reasonably connect to the human chest cavity, so the centaur would have to have some sort of organic pipe or other intake on its horse body in order to inhale air into its horse lungs.

I actually have no idea where I'm going with this, other than to suggest that centaurs would need an 'air intake' somewhere on their horse bodies in order to be plausible. :smalltongue:

Naanomi

2018-04-23, 07:42 PM

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1436280443-20150707.png

strangebloke

2018-04-23, 08:02 PM

I actually have no idea where I'm going with this, other than to suggest that centaurs would need an 'air intake' somewhere on their horse bodies in order to be plausible. :smalltongue:

That was a fun read. You implying that the horse half has a blowhole?

I'd probably only give them one heart and set of lungs, although it's fun(?) to imagine a centaur pierced through the lungs, but still able to run at full tilt for hours.

Dr. Cliché

2018-04-24, 05:34 AM

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1436280443-20150707.png

:smallbiggrin:

That was a fun read. You implying that the horse half has a blowhole?

I'm saying it would need a blowhole.

Human lungs have a volume of about 6 litres. Horse lungs have a volume of 55 litres. If a centaur only has human-sized lungs, then he simply won't be able to inhale enough oxygen to sustain his horse-body alone, let alone sustaining his human body and head as well.

Ergo, his horse half must have fully functional lungs and some form of, as you say, blow hole.

I'd probably only give them one heart and set of lungs, although it's fun(?) to imagine a centaur pierced through the lungs, but still able to run at full tilt for hours.

Hmm, now I'm wondering if a Centaur with 2 separate circulatory systems could have them overlap to some degree - so that key organs can receive oxygen from both systems, rather than just one. Normally, certain blood vessels may be constricted such that the horse heart supplies oxygen to the horse body and the human heart supplies oxygen to the human body. However, if the centaur is injured and one system suffers damage, the other system could then take over, minimising the damage to the brain, hearts and other key organs.

...

Once again I have no idea where I'm going with any of this.

EvilAnagram

2018-04-24, 06:03 AM

:smallbiggrin:

I'm saying it would need a blowhole.

Human lungs have a volume of about 6 litres. Horse lungs have a volume of 55 litres. If a centaur only has human-sized lungs, then he simply won't be able to inhale enough oxygen to sustain his horse-body alone, let alone sustaining his human body and head as well.

Ergo, his horse half must have fully functional lungs and some form of, as you say, blow hole.

Hmm, now I'm wondering if a Centaur with 2 separate circulatory systems could have them overlap to some degree - so that key organs can receive oxygen from both systems, rather than just one. Normally, certain blood vessels may be constricted such that the horse heart supplies oxygen to the horse body and the human heart supplies oxygen to the human body. However, if the centaur is injured and one system suffers damage, the other system could then take over, minimising the damage to the brain, hearts and other key organs.

...

Once again I have no idea where I'm going with any of this.

Is there a reason the centaur cannot inhale enough oxygen to inflate both his human and horse lungs?

And we all know you're saying they breathe out their butts.

Pronounceable

2018-04-24, 06:04 AM

I think the shear number of animal/human crossbreeds existing in DND does call for a unified explanation
It's "gods did it". Your standard explanation for all the weird **** in fantasy when "wizard did it" can't cover it.

I'd classify all those weirdass human-animal-mashup critters as fey and dump them to Feywild. All your centaurs and harpies and mermaids and chimeras and aarakocras are over there. Some gods missed the bus and were late to the party and the mortal world was filled with all the regular critters by other gods that made sense, so the slackers (and also the unimaginative) made Feywild and put all their illogical and/or lazy creations in.

And since some gods sucked even harder, they copied others' fey critters. That's why you get crap like the lion centaur and the goat centaur and the spider centaur (all of which are existing DnD critters).

Dr. Cliché

2018-04-24, 06:11 AM

Is there a reason the centaur cannot inhale enough oxygen to inflate both his human and horse lungs?

You can think of lungs as being similar to sacs that hold air. When you expand your chest cavity by moving out your ribs and diaphragm, you lower the pressure inside which draws air into your lungs.

How would you propose connecting these two sacs, through the airtight diaphragm and down into the horse lungs?

EvilAnagram

2018-04-24, 06:22 AM

You can think of lungs as being similar to sacs that hold air. When you expand your chest cavity by moving out your ribs and diaphragm, you lower the pressure inside which draws air into your lungs.

How would you propose connecting these two sacs, through the airtight diaphragm and down into the horse lungs?

By having internal structures that resemble neither horse, nor human. The entire upper torso has ribs protecting an enormous heart and lungs. The diaphragm is at the waist/neck. Digestive organs are in the horse. That's why pictures only even show them armored in the top half.

Only other option is to breathe through their butthole.

Dr. Cliché

2018-04-24, 06:42 AM

By having internal structures that resemble neither horse, nor human. The entire upper torso has ribs protecting an enormous heart and lungs. The diaphragm is at the waist/neck. Digestive organs are in the horse. That's why pictures only even show them armored in the top half.

I think you'd still have far too little volume - especially if you expanded the heart as well. :smalltongue:

It would also result in a different shape to what we see in the illustrations (this isn't a huge issue, merely noteworthy).

Only other option is to breathe through their butthole.

Actually, that would be a terrible idea, since the butthole does not connect with the lungs and would make a poor route for breathing even if it did.

However, I do believe that a breathing hole for the horse-lungs could work. It could be located just below the abdomen of the human part, since the reproductive organs are located elsewhere.

I appreciate that having an additional 'mouth' would likely give them a creepy vibe, but this is something I can live with. Better yet, it's something that the centaurs themselves can - quite literally - live with. :smallwink:

EvilAnagram

2018-04-24, 07:03 AM

Actually, that would be a terrible idea, since the butthole does not connect with the lungs and would make a poor route for breathing even if it did.

In horses. Centaurs obviously have different biology, which necessarily includes respiratory butt-kegels.

Naanomi

2018-04-24, 08:14 AM

My guess is there are few, if any, internal organs in the ‘human’ part... just a big serious of digestive and respiratory tubes down to the horse parts that do all the work. IE: the torso of a centaur is just a weird head

Dr. Cliché

2018-04-24, 08:18 AM

In horses. Centaurs obviously have different biology, which necessarily includes respiratory butt-kegels.

My guess is there are few, if any, internal organs in the ‘human’ part... just a big serious of digestive and respiratory tubes down to the horse parts that do all the work. IE: the torso of a centaur is just a weird head

Thinking about the biology of centaurs would seem to be an excellent source of nightmare fuel. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

strangebloke

2018-04-24, 08:56 AM

Thinking about the biology of centaurs would seem to be an excellent source of nightmare fuel. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

I mean, goes double for dragons, or flumphs, or bullettes or whatever.

It's not like it'll ever come up. You could just as easily say that biology all works off of the doctrine of humors in your setting.

That said...

After some cursory research, including the paper "Factors Affecting Oxygen Consumption in the Horse" and the wikipedia page "Lung Volume" and a short visit to the website "Horseandhound," I've determine that no way in hell are the horse's lungs fitting in the human torso. Those things have a capacity of over 10 times that of a human's lungs. Since the lungs and the heart need to be co-located, and the horse's digestive tract also isn't fitting in the human body, I'd tend to agree with Naanomi, that the torso doesn't really contain any significant number of organs, but still needs to be protected because of the large number of vital veins, etc. flowing through it.

A horse-head weighs about 120 pounds, which means that a human torso/head is probably pretty similar in mass. The human part likely consumes more blood/oxygen than the horse-head, because of the arms and the larger brain, but that is easier to hand-wave.

With this in mind, I'd make centaurs have a horse half that is lower-than-average in size, but has the organs of a larger creature.

JackPhoenix

2018-04-24, 12:17 PM

Does this work?

https://1d4chan.org/images/4/4e/Centaur_Anatomy.jpg

And bonus:
https://1d4chan.org/images/c/cd/Centaur_Muscles.jpg

strangebloke

2018-04-24, 12:50 PM

Does this work?

Probably? I mean, it works as well as anything.
Really appreciate that we know where the thing's penis and testicles are.

Aaracockra are way harder to spec. Where are their breast muscles? Where are their specialized respiratory air sacs that let them maintain aerobic flight? How are they as resilient as other creature when they must have hollow bones?

Admittedly, most of these problems exist for dragons as well.

Dr. Cliché

2018-04-24, 01:25 PM

Does this work?

https://1d4chan.org/images/4/4e/Centaur_Anatomy.jpg

No, it's the exact problem we were discussing earlier - the human torso just doesn't have sufficient volume to accommodate the size of lung you'd need (even if you strip out the other organs, you're still only looking at about 1/5 of the volume you'd need). Hence, the horse body would have to have functional lungs - either in place of the human lungs or in addition to them.

(By the way, I know I'm probably coming across as a pedantic git, but for what it's worth I'm not trying to be. I just find it interesting to consider the internal anatomy of unusual creatures and whether or not it could really work.)

Aaracockra are way harder to spec. Where are their breast muscles? Where are their specialized respiratory air sacs that let them maintain aerobic flight? How are they as resilient as other creature when they must have hollow bones?

Indeed, though these problems are common to most flying fantasy creatures (in addition to having wings that are far too small in proportion to their bodies).

It's a shame because hollow/fragile bones could make for a pretty interesting weakness for a flying race.

Admittedly, most of these problems exist for dragons as well.

If anything, dragons are even worse - as they're much larger and vastly heavier. Is there anything saying that their movement/flight is aided by magic in some way?

PhoenixPhyre

2018-04-24, 01:32 PM

If anything, dragons are even worse - as they're much larger and vastly heavier. Is there anything saying that their movement/flight is aided by magic in some way?

A standing D&D assumption is that lots of things (all things?) are magic, but not all magic is the same. That is, there's an in-universe distinction between those things that require the ambient, all-pervasive magical field to work and those that manipulate it in ways that act like spells or other explicitly magical effects.

That is, dragons are magic, even if they don't do magic. And this innate power isn't patterned like a spell, so it's not affected by AMF (for example) but might be by a dead magic zone (where the field just isn't strong enough).

Naanomi

2018-04-24, 05:57 PM

The brain/bodymass ratio is still a problem in that model. Here is my solution...

-the lower body is pretty much like a horse, excepting that the connections to the humanish part is distinct
-the upper body’s skeleton and muscular system are comparable to an adult human, excepting that there is more cartilage to support and protect...
-the internal system of the human portion is mostly larger-than-it-appears respiratory and digestive opening; with necessary changes to the voice-box/speaking apparatus to accommodate such a change
-extra brain tissue, perhaps filling much of the human torso or perhaps supplementary elsewhere, exists to coordinate muscle activity in such a large animal that also has manual dexterity and speech motor functions to manage

Akolyte01

2018-04-24, 07:46 PM

That's a funny image, but I take serious issue with the assertion that aaracockra physiology makes any kind of anatomical sense.

I mean, sure, in a general sense, that is where the wings go, but that's also where the arms go, so how is this thing sporting both? That's got to be one heck of a complicated collarbone situation. And where are the breast muscles. You know, the muscles that make the wings go flap? With a balor or dragon or equivalently magical species, they at least have a massive chest space that could theoretically contain the muscles necessary... but with aaracockra, they're downright shrimpy!

Centaurs, by comparison actually work pretty well anatomically, even if it seems less organic. A horse is capable of supporting a human body at that joint, after all. The internal organ situation is, complex, sure, but there's no reason he couldn't have two hearts, or some other needlessly complicated situation.

Aaracockra's aren't realistic but extra limbs still takes a much smaller suspension of disbelief than a whole different ribcage, IMO. Like centaurs aren't a horse-like man thing or a man-like horse thing, they're most of a full horse, then most of a full man. Just seems silly.

PhantomSoul

2018-04-24, 08:03 PM

Indeed, though these problems are common to most flying fantasy creatures (in addition to having wings that are far too small in proportion to their bodies).

It's a shame because hollow/fragile bones could make for a pretty interesting weakness for a flying race.

They could have a custom trait in your campaign to give that extra flavour without too much trouble:

Hollow Bones: [creature name] have hollow bones, which allow(ed) flight. As a result, [creature name] are vulnerable to bludgeoning damage when not wearing medium or heavy armor.

That's even not too critical -- the only ranged weapons that deal bludgeoning damage (aside from monster-specific tactics like chucking rocks at you) are slings, and at least in my experience bows and crossbows are much more common!