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Douglas
2007-09-02, 02:54 PM
For those too impatient to read the whole post, I've summarized things at the end.

I'm making a character for an ECL 50 gestalt arena, and I'd like some help compiling a few lists. Now before you start screaming "epic is broken", keep in mind that any build for this arena has to get approved by a GM, and he's already established some house rules. Plus, I already know that. If that's all you have to contribute, please don't bother.

Some of the house rules for those who care (they're unrelated to what I'm asking for):
Any truly infinite combo will be banned.
Epic spells cannot have a final DC higher than 60 and mitigation cannot lower the DC by more than half. This means the before-mitigation DC of any epic spell cannot be higher than 120.
Leadership does not give followers, so no epic ritual cheese. The cohort could still help, but any cohort reduces your level by 1/4 the level of the cohort.
Grafts don't stack. You can't have more than one graft of the same type - no 10,000 grappling tentacles.
Manipulate Form has been nerfed to near uselessness.
The Shadow seed, Ice Assassin, and Simulacrum (plus any other spell you might find that could create a duplicate of a god or your opponent) are banned.
Shapechange, etc. cannot apply templates.
Thought Bottle is banned.
Wish and Miracle "greater effects" cannot be used.

Anyway, what I want help with is A) figuring out how to apply my charisma modifier (and other stats too, but charisma will be highest) as many times as possible to as many things as possible and B) getting as many immunities as possible. For both lists, doing it for the minimum cost. I already know about the X stat to Y bonus (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=320889) thread, but it doesn't have all the information I need. For one thing, how many of the charisma-to-saves abilities are named Divine Grace and therefore don't stack with each other?

A few restrictions: nothing evil, I have multiple PrCs critical to the build that require a non-evil and preferably good alignment; nothing racial unless it's a template or can be acquired magically without giving up my own (rather high) ability scores, my base race is fixed as Elf to qualify for Eternal Blade; limited uses per day is acceptable, but only if each use covers at least one entire round.

To a point, I consider class levels cheaper than feats with where I currently am in building this character. Cheapest of all are spells (I have full access to both the sor/wiz and cleric lists and can duplicate almost anything else with Miracle if I have to). I already plan on having Turn Undead, so divine feats can consider that cost already paid. I'm looking for attack bonus, damage bonus, saves, and AC, in that order from most important to least.

Also, I plan to design an epic spell based on the Ward seed to negate a list of cheesy spells within an area of something like 100 feet centered on me. Things like (Greater) Consumptive Field, Disjunction, Sadism and Masochism (BoVD), and whatever others I pick will just fail when used in that area. What else should I add to the list?


To sum up, and for those who skipped to here, I need:
1) The cheapest ways to add charisma (and others, but primarily charisma) to attack bonus, damage, saves, and AC for at least one round that all stack with each other. Keep in mind that, for example, multiple abilities with the same name (Divine Grace) are usually considered the same ability and don't stack with each other.
2) Ways to get immunity to as many things as possible. I expect a lot of spells in this list, but don't limit yourself to that if you have another idea.
3) Cheesy spells that I should make an epic spell to negate.

Each of these should be non evil and not require changing my race from Elf.

Quietus
2007-09-02, 03:03 PM
Make sure you can Automatic Quicken every spell level you have access to, and get piles of Multispell feats. More spells per round means you can counterspell like mad and still get to do things - that's perhaps your best way of dealing with Epic spells. In that vein, pick up Epic Counterspell as one of your Epic spells, that'll help prevent much of the cheese your opponents will try and send in your direction.

The Glyphstone
2007-09-02, 03:46 PM
Well, I know the Blackguard's ability is called Dark Blessing, so it does stack with the Paladin of Tyranny or Paladin of Slaughter's Dark Blessing - but you did specify non-evil, so I guess that's out. Maybe you can convince the GM that PrC's don't require to constantly meet their prerequisites in order to qualify for bonuses after you take levels in them...

Where is this ECL50 Gestalt Arena being hosted, anyhow, and is it open to any submissions? I love arenas, and love epic, and love gestalt...

Douglas
2007-09-02, 03:53 PM
With Improved Metamagic x3 reducing Quicken Spell to +1, Automatic Quicken is not worth the cost. Taking Improved Spell Capacity instead gets somewhere in the vicinity of 15 more spell slots with my spellcasting ability score, each 10th level or higher, and one of my PrCs has an ability that makes Multispell mostly redundant. Epic Counterspell as written is both not allowed in this arena (the DC is too high by 9) and completely worthless - everyone who cares about it will have at least caster level 50, probably higher, and it takes a standard action to ready it. No thank you, I'd rather spend my standard action actually doing something proactive.

Aside from all that, do you have anything to say on the things I actually specifically asked for help with?

Edit: The arena is Last Man Standing DnD lvl50 gestalt (http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=7698&gn=Last+Man+Standing+DnD+lvl50+gestalt&date=1188765615) on rpol.net.

Bassetking
2007-09-02, 03:56 PM
Consider using a page from my own playbook, and making use of one level of cleric, and eleven levels of crusader, on either side of that matrix, and then pickling up a gauntlet, the feat "Imbued Healing: Luck" and the Crusader Stance "Aura of Chaos"

Infinite Damage.

Now... Make that Gauntlet a Ghost Touch weapon.

Pick up Etherealness. Spend the LA on picking up the "Ghost" Template.

Combat begins:

Round 1:
Cast a healing spell of any level

Round 2:
Attack the plane upon which the combat is taking place, deal an infinite quantity of damage to the plane through the "1d2 Crusader" trick. Destroy plane upon which combat is taking place.

Round 3:
Exercise points put into "Perform:Victory Dance"

Douglas
2007-09-02, 03:59 PM
A) I know about that trick already.
B) It would get banned instantly.
C) It's not what I asked about.

Behold_the_Void
2007-09-02, 05:19 PM
Could we have an idea of your basic build? It'd make it a bit easier to see what you're working with.

Gralamin
2007-09-02, 05:44 PM
Could we have an idea of your basic build? It'd make it a bit easier to see what you're working with.

Agreed. Its difficult to help when we don't know what you are doing.

Douglas
2007-09-02, 06:35 PM
I'm not sure why you need more than I've already said, I specifically stated exactly what I'm looking for, but if you insist...

Without getting into too many details, a gish with both arcane and divine casting for his buffs and utility spells. Miracle is available to duplicate spells not on the sor/wiz or cleric lists. Epic Spellcasting will be used to buff up his important ability scores (limited by what's doable with 120 DC before mitigation and limited to enhancement, morale, and competence bonuses by house rule), protect against dispelling, and negate certain kinds of cheese (which varieties to negate is part of what I'm asking for help with). I will be abusing Persistent Spell liberally, in combination with Incantatrix for the higher level spells (this GM is of the opinion that touch spells qualify for Persistent Spell, btw), though that is of somewhat lesser benefit than it might normally be because matches in this arena normally have 100 preparation rounds.

My offense will consist of using Time Stands Still repeatedly (yes, I have a way to get it back faster than the standard methods of regaining maneuvers), so of course I want my attack bonus and damage to be as high as possible. Saves and AC are, of course, also high priorities, especially with the Immortal Fortitude stance and the lead existing contender using physical attacks as his primary offense. At levels this far into epic, by far the biggest bonuses typically available are from things that add an additional ability score modifier, and charisma is the score with the most ways to do that. Something about trying to make it not a dump stat, I think :smallwink: .