How to make Thrall from Warcraft?

[jaappleton]

If you're unfamiliar, Thrall is an Orc from the Warcraft universe.

Warchief of the Horde
Chieftain of the Frostwolf Clan
Farseer in Warcraft 3, Shaman in WoW

So... How would you make him in 5E?

As a Shaman, he can heal. I'd certainly argue he's a Gish, so something with two attacks and he's pretty darn good with magic. So at least a half caster, if not full. I'd say he uses a Warhammer, not a Maul.

In theory, I'd go:

Celestial Warlock (for healing)
Pact of the Blade
Dwarven Thrower (He's hurled that hammer of his quite a few times)
Half Orc (because Volo's Orcs suck)
Either Folk Hero or Noble background

You might say, "Warlock?! He's Thrall, not Gul'dan!"
Ever since XGtE, the Warlock spell list got a lot more varied. Spells like Thunder Step help round it out to a more "classic arcane" list and away from the "demon caster" spell list.

Really want to see how others would build him. I can certainly see him build as an Oath of the Ancients Paladin.

[Sigreid]

Swap dwarven thrower for hammer of thunderbolts maybe? Just because of the race restrictions.

[tieren]

You need to get arcane eye, chain lightning, and conjure animals for the spells.

Maybe one of the sorcadin builds?

[solidork]

I would say Tempest Cleric. Can heal, can melee, shoots lighting. Spirit Guardians can be fluffed as spirit wolves. Clarivoyance is Far Sight.

[Asmotherion]

If you're unfamiliar, Thrall is an Orc from the Warcraft universe.

Warchief of the Horde
Chieftain of the Frostwolf Clan
Farseer in Warcraft 3, Shaman in WoW

So... How would you make him in 5E?

As a Shaman, he can heal. I'd certainly argue he's a Gish, so something with two attacks and he's pretty darn good with magic. So at least a half caster, if not full. I'd say he uses a Warhammer, not a Maul.

In theory, I'd go:

Celestial Warlock (for healing)
Pact of the Blade
Dwarven Thrower (He's hurled that hammer of his quite a few times)
Half Orc (because Volo's Orcs suck)
Either Folk Hero or Noble background

You might say, "Warlock?! He's Thrall, not Gul'dan!"
Ever since XGtE, the Warlock spell list got a lot more varied. Spells like Thunder Step help round it out to a more "classic arcane" list and away from the "demon caster" spell list.

Really want to see how others would build him. I can certainly see him build as an Oath of the Ancients Paladin.


I'd go for Bearbarian Orc with Magic Initiate and Ritual caster as feats. Lightning Lure and Booming Blade, and Armor of Agathys from the Warlock Spell List, for Magic Initiate, and latter Ritual Caster gives him a variety of Rituals he has access to. Alternativelly, a 3 Level Dip in Hexblade Warlock (As a Tomlock, since I believe Ritual Casting is essential for the Shaman Trope) and then Ancients Paladin Multiclass. I really do see him using Charisma as his Casting Stat and for Attacks/Damage.

[Vogie]

I'd probably also fall into a Warlock build - as a WoW shaman, his pact is with the spirits of the elements, seeking balance and knowledge.

I'd probably say as either

Monoclass - Celestial Blade Warlock. Equally comfortable casting and slashing, very invocation-heavy.

Multiclass :
Ancients Paladin 5 / Storm Sorcerer X
Typical gish Sorcadin build, smiting, middling heals, & full spellcasting.

OR

Paladin 2 / Seeker Tome Warlock 5 / Tempest Cleric X
This version is equally impactful, but has the ability to Ritually cast, heal and augment attacks and spells, over an extra attack. Gets Clairvoyance as a Patron Spell, has GWF and can wreck face with lightning & thunder spells which can be maximized by Destructive Wrath.

[GlenSmash!]

In his history Thrall was a very well trained (in personal combat and tactics) and successful gladiator before becoming a Shaman.

The Gladiator Background could work for that, but given how extensive the training was I'd say it merits some fighter levels. I'd say 5 for extra attack. Battlemaster would most closely fit the training he received.

From there going into an elemental themed Fullcaster seems like the best bet to me. Storm Sorcerer, Tempest Cleric, and Celestial Warlock all seem like good bets to me.

Also he does have a Frost Wolf Companion, so Beastmaster wouldn't be out of the question. He rides it in Warcraft 3, so maybe it would work has his Paladin steed if you went Oath of the Ancients Paladin?

OoA Paladin 5-6/ Storm Sorcerer X or Celestial Warlock X would be quite thematic and playable at any level if not "exactly" fitting his backstory.


Swap dwarven thrower for hammer of thunderbolts maybe? Just because of the race restrictions.

Hammer of Thunderbolts has a few drawbacks. You'd have to be wearing (but as far as I know not necessarily attuned to) Gauntlets of Ogre Power, and a Belt of Giant Strength, but worse is the fact that it doesn't actually say it returns to your hand after you throw it, like the Dwarven Thrower does. I've always been puzzled by that.

[Justin Sane]

There's always the Shaman class from Dawnforgedcast - it's pretty heavily inspired by WoW, and seems balanced enough.

[JackPhoenix]

Tempest Cleric. Heavy armor, hammer, healing, lightning spells... everything's right there. It's got Earthquake too. Only thing missing is Chain Lightning. Spirit Guardians can be refluffed as spirit wolves.

[Naanomi]

Easy, Great Old One Warlocks can Create Thrall at level 14

[GlenSmash!]

Easy, Great Old One Warlocks can Create Thrall at level 14

/slowclap

:smallsmile:

[Nifft]

Easy, Great Old One Warlocks can Create Thrall at level 14

Naanomi->thread_wins++;

[Envyus]

Would not Druid of the land make the most sense.

[GlenSmash!]

Would not Druid of the land make the most sense.

They still get shapeshifting abilities Thrall never uses. And which Land would you go with to get all the elemental abilities Thrall can use?

[MrStabby]

Wondering about bard options - key spells are on different lists so why not steal them (ok only really know the WC3 version).

You will want find steed, chain lightening, scrying, conjure animals i think. If you can do without one of these you can still be a valor/swords bard and be moderate level. Otherwise you probably want lore bard.

[JackPhoenix]

They still get shapeshifting abilities Thrall never uses. And which Land would you go with to get all the elemental abilities Thrall can use?

And can't wear plate..

[Baptor]

I really have to second Tempest Cleric here, if we are going mechanically, and I'd say the OP was going for something that plays like Thrall would. It's darn near perfect.

I'm a big fan of re-skins to make things like this work. Heck Cleric is so close you don't really have to re-skin, just say his divine power comes with a spiritual connection to the elemental planes or whatever. You don't have to worship a god to be a cleric.

I also second the Gladiator background if that's in his backstory.

[PeteNutButter]

I’d say tempest cleric seems the best fit.

Barbarian, Druid, fighter, ranger, paladin, sorcerer and warlock could all fit with some minor fluffing. Since he is clearly high level it probably involves multiclasing.

I’d think starting as fighter or paladin and then MCing into Druid would be a cool way to explain why he went from wearing armor to forgoing it later in game depictions. I’ve thought about trying to make a thrall character for a while but he either fits no class well or fits too many too well.

[GlenSmash!]

I’d say tempest cleric seems the best fit.

Barbarian, Druid, fighter, ranger, paladin, sorcerer and warlock could all fit with some minor fluffing. Since he is clearly high level it probably involves multiclasing.

I’d think starting as fighter or paladin and then MCing into Druid would be a cool way to explain why he went from wearing armor to forgoing it later in game depictions. I’ve thought about trying to make a thrall character for a while but he either fits no class well or fits too many too well.

I agree with this.

Tempest Cleric is a really good fit for a post Warchief Thrall: a guy more defined by his Wisdom and relationship with the Elements, than his Charismatic Leadership (as Warchief) or Personal combat prowess (as Blackmoore's pet Gladiator).

Some OaA Paladin levels could certainly cover the latter two.

[EvilAnagram]

I really have to second Tempest Cleric here, if we are going mechanically, and I'd say the OP was going for something that plays like Thrall would. It's darn near perfect.

I'm a big fan of re-skins to make things like this work. Heck Cleric is so close you don't really have to re-skin, just say his divine power comes with a spiritual connection to the elemental planes or whatever. You don't have to worship a god to be a cleric.

I also second the Gladiator background if that's in his backstory.
Yeah, the Tempest Cleric is almost perfect. The only thing it lacks is Chain Lightning.

[gloryblaze]

Not super familiar w/ thrall's lore from Warcraft, but if we want a Tempest Cleric that has Chain Lightning, 2 levels of tempest Cleric (for heavy armor, martial weapons, and the max lightning damage channel divinity) then 18 levels of Divine Soul sorcerer (full Cleric casting, including 9th level spells, but also snagging Chain Lightning) might work.

[Biggstick]

As many others have said, Tempest Cleric is the best fit for Thrall. It's easy and playable right from level 1 all the way to level 20.

[jaappleton]

Not super familiar w/ thrall's lore from Warcraft, but if we want a Tempest Cleric that has Chain Lightning, 2 levels of tempest Cleric (for heavy armor, martial weapons, and the max lightning damage channel divinity) then 18 levels of Divine Soul sorcerer (full Cleric casting, including 9th level spells, but also snagging Chain Lightning) might work.

Actually.... this is an amazing suggestion, though I’d make one change.

It’s UA and not official, but the ORIGINAL 5E version of the Favored Soul, from the very first UA, was designed by Rodney Thompson and granted Extra Attack at 6th Level.

[gloryblaze]

Actually.... this is an amazing suggestion, though I’d make one change.

It’s UA and not official, but the ORIGINAL 5E version of the Favored Soul, from the very first UA, was designed by Rodney Thompson and granted Extra Attack at 6th Level.

IIRC the OG favored soul doesn't get full cleric casting, it just gets the domain spells for one cleric domain. You'd therefore end up with fog cloud, thunderwave, gust of wind, shatter, call lightning, sleet storm, control water, ice storm, destructive wave, and insect plague from Tempest. That means you're locked out from cleric goodies like Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, (Mass) Cure Wounds, (Mass) Healing Word, (Mass) Heal, Revivify, Raise Dead, and True Resurrection.

Although, as I mentioned, I'm not super familiar w/ Thrall. If all we're going for is "can stick it in melee, shoots lightning like a BAMF" then 2 Tempest/18 Favored Soul v1 would probably work quite well. If the themes of spirtuality/healing are important to us, I think using Xanny's Divine Soul would probably be better overall. Wearing heavy armor, concentrating on Spirit Guardians, bonus-action-attacking with Spiritual Weapon and shooting off maximized Chain Lightnings seems like a pretty melee capable lightning dude to me, even if he lacks Extra Attack.

[jaappleton]

IIRC the OG favored soul doesn't get full cleric casting, it just gets the domain spells for one cleric domain. You'd therefore end up with fog cloud, thunderwave, gust of wind, shatter, call lightning, sleet storm, control water, ice storm, destructive wave, and insect plague from Tempest. That means you're locked out from cleric goodies like Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, (Mass) Cure Wounds, (Mass) Healing Word, (Mass) Heal, Revivify, Raise Dead, and True Resurrection.

Although, as I mentioned, I'm not super familiar w/ Thrall. If all we're going for is "can stick it in melee, shoots lightning like a BAMF" then 2 Tempest/18 Favored Soul v1 would probably work quite well. If the themes of spirtuality/healing are important to us, I think using Xanny's Divine Soul would probably be better overall. Wearing heavy armor, concentrating on Spirit Guardians, bonus-action-attacking with Spiritual Weapon and shooting off maximized Chain Lightnings seems like a pretty melee capable lightning dude to me, even if he lacks Extra Attack.

You’re 100% correct in that I wouldn’t get full access to the Cleric list. But Shatter, Chain Lightning, and Lightning Bolt are all available via the vanilla Sorcerer list.

Life Domain nets me plenty of healing spells and Spiritual Weapon. And while it doesn’t net me any healing spells, War Domain grants access to Spirit Guardians.

I think Life works well, using Spiritual Weapon reflavored as a spectral wolf.

I think that might be the best single class way to make Thrall; the old Favored Soul.

[GreyBlack]

Why not Nature or Tempest cleric?

Warlock has a very specific connotation in the Warcraft universe so using Warlock probably doesn't make too much sense. Shaman worship nature, but aren't in tune with the natural world the way that druids are and are generally the spiritual leaders of their tribes.

And so, I submit that he is a Half-Orc Nature cleric, Folk Hero background. I'll build feats later.

[GlenSmash!]

Why not Nature or Tempest cleric?

Warlock has a very specific connotation in the Warcraft universe so using Warlock probably doesn't make too much sense. Shaman worship nature, but aren't in tune with the natural world the way that druids are and are generally the spiritual leaders of their tribes.

And so, I submit that he is a Half-Orc Nature cleric, Folk Hero background. I'll build feats later.

I think the Tempest Cleric spell list is slightly more suited to Thrall, but I agree that Nature is a fine fit too, it's Divine strike is actually a better fit for a Warcraft Shaman that Tempest's even. But I still give it to Tempest for the bonus spells.

[GlenSmash!]

I've thought about this a little more, and it seems like Thrall has a smattering of varied Elemental abilities, but still hits things with his hammer pretty often. Maybe even more often than not.

Tempest or Nature Cleric is great for the straight spellcaster route, but I think he's got more martial in him.

Eldritch Knight with the right spell choices like Mold earth, Earth Tremor, Lightning Bolt, haste, Storm Sphere, etc might get me closer to the brawler we see in Heroes of the Storm.

[jaappleton]

I've thought about this a little more, and it seems like Thrall has a smattering of varied Elemental abilities, but still hits things with his hammer pretty often. Maybe even more often than not.

Tempest or Nature Cleric is great for the straight spellcaster route, but I think he's got more martial in him.

Eldritch Knight with the right spell choices like Mold earth, Earth Tremor, Lightning Bolt, haste, Storm Sphere, etc might get me closer to the brawler we see in Heroes of the Storm.

That's the thing, I think his elemental spellcasting is more than a Third Spellcaster.

Well... I mean, it really depends on what incarnation of Thrall, right? I'd say WoW is definitely more Cleric-y. Warcraft 3 is more half caster. I've never played HotS, so I can't really comment, but you make it seem like he's pretty hammer happy.

So, I don't really know. I'm kind of inclined to say Nature Paladin, but with a custom spell list? Nature Paladin with the Tempest Domain spell list, maybe?

[GlenSmash!]

That's the thing, I think his elemental spellcasting is more than a Third Spellcaster.

Well... I mean, it really depends on what incarnation of Thrall, right? I'd say WoW is definitely more Cleric-y. Warcraft 3 is more half caster. I've never played HotS, so I can't really comment, but you make it seem like he's pretty hammer happy.

So, I don't really know. I'm kind of inclined to say Nature Paladin, but with a custom spell list? Nature Paladin with the Tempest Domain spell list, maybe?

Yeah I just don't know if Tempest has the Earth, Wind, and Fire elements covered, but I am not very familiar with the Cleric spell list beyond Spiritual weapon and Spirit Guardians.

The Wizard spell list has a surprising number of good options.

[jaappleton]

Yeah I just don't know if Tempest has the Earth, Wind, and Fire elements covered, but I am not very familiar with the Cleric spell list beyond Spiritual weapon and Spirit Guardians.

The Wizard spell list has a surprising number of good options.

It does, and very oddly, Bladesinger isn't a terrible option. It... Actually works, although I really dislike the idea of his spellcasting being Int based, but I could get over it.

The only thing it lacks is any semblance of healing. And I don't know how to fix that.

[GlenSmash!]

It does, and very oddly, Bladesinger isn't a terrible option. It... Actually works, although I really dislike the idea of his spellcasting being Int based, but I could get over it.

The only thing it lacks is any semblance of healing. And I don't know how to fix that.

Bladesinger works if you ignore or refluff his Plate Armor. Or are representing his less armored later self.

EK/Bladesinger using Wisdom would have it covered. Or better yet Tempest Cleric with the wizard spell list (or a subset of it). But now we're back into homebrew territory.

You could pick up Healing Word with Magic Initiate on the wizard options though. It's not a lot of healing, but Thrall in any of his incarnations isn't a primary healer.

Edit: Alternatively Magic initiate for Create Bonfire and Mold Earth cantrips would add a lot of the elemental feel to a Tempest Cleric or OoA Paladin option.

[jaappleton]

Bladesinger works if you ignore or refluff his Plate Armor. Or are representing his less armored later self.

EK/Bladesinger using Wisdom would have it covered. Or better yet Tempest Cleric with the wizard spell list (or a subset of it). But now we're back into homebrew territory.

You could pick up Healing Word with Magic Initiate on the wizard options though. It's not a lot of healing, but Thrall in any of his incarnations isn't a primary healer.

Edit: Alternatively Magic initiate for Create Bonfire and Mold Earth cantrips would add a lot of the elemental feel to a Tempest Cleric or OoA Paladin option.

First, I really want to thank you for indulging me with this conversation. Thank for the time, Glen, I do appreciate it. :smallbiggrin:

I'm almost curious to see how well the Mystic works. It certainly has the elemental part of it covered, but the lack of a true Extra Attack really disappoints. Plus, so much of the abilities require Concentration that it's really difficulty to do anything pretty cool consistently, I think. Though I might see how far Bladesinger 6 / Mystic 3 gets me just for fun.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think of it, a Bladesinger is 100000% a Blademaster from Warcraft 3. Blur, unarmored, difficult to hit, Steel Wind Strike as a spell... Totally a Blademaster. So if I want to make Grom... >_>

[GlenSmash!]

First, I really want to thank you for indulging me with this conversation. Thank for the time, Glen, I do appreciate it. :smallbiggrin:

I'm almost curious to see how well the Mystic works. It certainly has the elemental part of it covered, but the lack of a true Extra Attack really disappoints. Plus, so much of the abilities require Concentration that it's really difficulty to do anything pretty cool consistently, I think. Though I might see how far Bladesinger 6 / Mystic 3 gets me just for fun.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think of it, a Bladesinger is 100000% a Blademaster from Warcraft 3. Blur, unarmored, difficult to hit, Steel Wind Strike as a spell... Totally a Blademaster. So if I want to make Grom... >_>

You're very welcome. This Thread got me thinking about the old Warcraft days. Which made me download and play Heroes of the Storm for the first time. Which made me download and play WoW for the first time in ages. Just playing levels 1 to 20 mind you. I'll never pay a subscription for it again. I wonder if I still have my Warcraft 2 and 3 install discs somewhere.

Nice call on Grom. It disappoints me that his son and some other Baldemaster are in HoftS, but Grom isn't.

Mystic is one of those classes that can do everything pretty well. It can cover so many concepts.

It kind of makes me hate it.

[jaappleton]

Your'e very welcome. This Thread got me thinking about the old Warcraft days. Which made me download and play Heroes of the Storm for the first time. Which made me download and play WoW for the first time in ages. Just playing levels 1 to 20 mind you. I'll never pay a subscription for it again. I wonder if I still have my Warcraft 2 and 3 install discs somewhere.

Nice call on Grom. It disappoints me that his son and some other Baldemaster are in HoftS, but Grom isn't.

Mystic is one of those classes that can do everything pretty well. It can cover so many concepts.

It kind of makes me hate it.

Agreed. I can't wait for the Mystic to be further refined, and I especially can't wait for the Mystic archetypes that bleed into other classes (The Mystic equivalent of the EK for the Fighter, for example). It needs a much more narrow scope in several departments, because it doesn't have an identity other than "I do spells without them being spells". But we're veering way off topic here.

Its funny that talking about Thrall got you to want to play the old games again, as my original concept was actually to be Uther the Lightbringer, but the more I dove into it, the more I realized I'd much rather play something inspired by Thrall, since Uther's so darn easy to make (Devotion Paladin, obviously).

[GlenSmash!]

Agreed. I can't wait for the Mystic to be further refined, and I especially can't wait for the Mystic archetypes that bleed into other classes (The Mystic equivalent of the EK for the Fighter, for example). It needs a much more narrow scope in several departments, because it doesn't have an identity other than "I do spells without them being spells". But we're veering way off topic here.

Its funny that talking about Thrall got you to want to play the old games again, as my original concept was actually to be Uther the Lightbringer, but the more I dove into it, the more I realized I'd much rather play something inspired by Thrall, since Uther's so darn easy to make (Devotion Paladin, obviously).

Yeah it's been a fun little walk through memory lane. I made an Orc Enhancement Shaman in WoW. I got him to 20 and thought "yeah that was fun".

Uther was my favorite back when I played Warcraft 2. Human Devotion Paladin, Acolyte background for sure.

I use to mess around with the WC2 level creator. Populate it with Hero characters and make maps that didn't really have resources or base building. Not dissimilar to some Warcraft 3 stuff, or even Heroes of the Storm itself.

I think that was 22 years ago :smalleek:

[jaappleton]

Yeah it's been a fun little walk through memory lane. I made an Orc Enhancement Shaman in WoW. I got him to 20 and thought "yeah that was fun".

Uther was my favorite back when I played Warcraft 2. Human Devotion Paladin, Acolyte background for sure.

I use to mess around with the WC2 level creator. Populate it with Hero characters and make maps that didn't really have resources or base building. Not dissimilar to some Warcraft 3 stuff, or even Heroes of the Storm itself.

I think that was 22 years ago :smalleek:

I know its homebrew, but I wanted your thoughts:

I think I just figured out the best way to make Thrall.

Bladesinger, but the Druid spell list. Druid spell list certainly covers the healing and all the elemental stuff (Even if its missing a few obvious spells I think Druids should get, like Chain Lightning), but what do you think? I also don't think there's anything imbalancing about using the Druid list as opposed to the Wizards.

[GlenSmash!]

I know its homebrew, but I wanted your thoughts:

I think I just figured out the best way to make Thrall.

Bladesinger, but the Druid spell list. Druid spell list certainly covers the healing and all the elemental stuff (Even if its missing a few obvious spells I think Druids should get, like Chain Lightning), but what do you think? I also don't think there's anything imbalancing about using the Druid list as opposed to the Wizards.

I'm always pretty agreeable about swapping stuff. I personally don't see much that would be imbalancing about switching spell lists. Unless you are going for some Shillelagh shenanigans.

[Spore]

Half-Orc Tempest Cleric with very good stats overall. Half-Orc simply because of his upbringing

[GlenSmash!]

Half-Orc Tempest Cleric with very good stats overall. Half-Orc simply because of his upbringing

Yup not a Half-Orc by blood, but by upbringing.

And because the 5e Orc sucks.

[jaappleton]

And because the 5e Orc sucks.

Amen to that!

[DracoKnight]

And because the 5e Orc sucks.


Amen to that!

I will second that amen. And yeah, the half-orc feels more orcish than the full-blooded orc, which is just sad.