Warlock prestige class qualification

[schreier]

Reading the clarifications here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?520756-Warlock-Guide-for-Rules-Clarifications-3-5e

Which are great...

And cross referencing the google drive spreadsheet of casting classes here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493135-List-of-all-prestige-classes-that-progress-spellcasting

I had a quick question ... trying to build a warlock, and reading the clarifications, it is clear that "cast 2nd level spells" as a qualification will prevent warlocks from meeting the criteria on their own. With a "theurge" warlock/wizard or warlock cleric though, I think that some classes might allow warlock progression without allowing "warlock qualification."

For example, the Master Harper requires 2nd level arcane or divine spells. The spreadsheet referenced says "no" for warlock. But ... if you can cast 2nd level arcane (say through Eldritch Theurge), then you can probably increase warlock level through the class, correct? So qualify with your wizard levels, but advance your warlock levels? This may not be the wisest course, but I am just playing with different builds and want to know my options.

I just want to make sure I am reading it correctly.

Thanks,
schreier

[RaiKirah]

Indeed, the qualifications don't matter where they come from. Once you're in a prestige class you can apply the class benefits in any legal way. Warlocks can explicitly benefit from +1 Spellcasting progressions, so you're good. Using a theurge build is perfectly legit.

[Nebuul]

At least at my table, we would not allow you to use "class A" casting progression to qualify for a "class B" prestige class. Meaning if you are using wizard casting level to qualify, then you must use wizard casting level in the prestige class.

[schreier]

It's interesting, because some classes explicitly call out the class you qualify with, while others are completely open.

For example, Sacred Exorcist:
"If a character had more than one spellcasting class in which she could cast dismissal or dispel evil before she became a sacred exorcist, the player must decide which class to assign each level of sacred exorcist for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

So it must be a "qualifying class" in that case.

Incantatrix:
"If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class that granted access to 3rd-level spells before she became an incantatrix, she must decide to which class she adds each level of incantatrix for the purposes of determining spells per day and spells known."

Compared to Divine Oracle:
"If a character had more than one spellcasting class before she became a divine oracle, the player must decide which class to assign each level of divine oracle for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known."

Master Harper has the same language as Divine Oracle.

So it seems to be called out on a class by class basis.

[Zaq]

At least at my table, we would not allow you to use "class A" casting progression to qualify for a "class B" prestige class. Meaning if you are using wizard casting level to qualify, then you must use wizard casting level in the prestige class.

That seems needlessly restrictive to the point of being vindictive. If someone spends build resources (like, say, class levels in Wizard when you aren’t really trying to play a Wizard), why deny them the benefit of the cost they paid?

[Troacctid]

For example, the Master Harper requires 2nd level arcane or divine spells. The spreadsheet referenced says "no" for warlock. But ... if you can cast 2nd level arcane (say through Eldritch Theurge), then you can probably increase warlock level through the class, correct? So qualify with your wizard levels, but advance your warlock levels? This may not be the wisest course, but I am just playing with different builds and want to know my options.

I just want to make sure I am reading it correctly.

Thanks,
schreier
For the spreadsheet, I drew a distinction between prestige classes that a Warlock can't normally qualify for, but would advance Warlock invocations if they somehow did (indicated as "No"), and prestige classes that cannot advance Warlock invocations at all (indicated as "Never"). If a "No" class could be entered with only a single level in another class, I indicated it with "Dip" instead.

[schreier]

Awesome - so no is yes if you qualify, never is never ever.

Thanks!

[BowStreetRunner]

I have a vague recollection of running into a prestige class that actually state something to the effect that you could only advance the spellcasting of the class you used to qualify. I can't recall which PrC it was, or even if it was divine or arcane. But it might be worth the caveat that you should read the actual wording of the Spellcasting ability for the PrC in question before assuming that you can qualify with a different class but advance your Warlock instead.

[Nebuul]

That seems needlessly restrictive to the point of being vindictive. If someone spends build resources (like, say, class levels in Wizard when you aren’t really trying to play a Wizard), why deny them the benefit of the cost they paid?

It is just our belief that if there are specific spellcasting requirements for a prestige class, and then that class progresses spellcasting levels, then the intention is for those spellcasting levels to be applied to a class meeting the requirements. It's our interpretation of intent, but nobody's forcing anyone else to play by those rules.

[Grim Reader]

I really, really doubt that to be the intent.

Anyway, you may want to look at the Nosomatic Chirurgeon PrC. Warlock advancement and it grants a spellcasting progression that can be used to qualify for other things. (Its Adept progression though, so pretty poor on its own.)

[schreier]

If you think about it logically - I think it would be case by case if you could improve other arts. In real world scenarios, sometimes prerequisites relate to a potential capability (i.e. you understood algebra, so can take geometry, then can take trig/analyt). In each case, you learned a "new" math - but had to demonstrate the understanding. This would be like a prestige class requiring "ability to cast 3rd level spells" but allowing you to increase warlock.

On the other hand, there are progressive studies. For example, Intro Accounting I, then Intro II, then Intermediate I, then Intermediate II - where each builds directly on the last. This one would require you to advance the qualifying class (i.e. the one that requires the ability to cast 3rd level spells)

At least that's how I would think about it.