What cantrip would you recommend (High Elf Samurai)

[Vox Silentii]

Im building a high elf samurai and i need to figure out what cantrip im taking.
Im thinking about True Strike since i have the Elven Accuracy Feat. So when i need more advantage i can use that.
But is it worth it? Since i have fighting spirit.
If not that then what else do you recommend? Booming blade maybe?
Im thinking that my character doesnt use magic but instead will use true strike as a "technique".
But im interested too see what you guys/girls recommend

[hymer]

Greenflame Blade I'd say is a prime candidate along with Booming Blade (as you mentioned). But they're pretty magical, and so are a lot of the more general purpose cantrips (minor illusion, prestidigitation). Blade ward could probably be fluffed as nonmagical, but like True Strike is rather underwhelming.

[A Fat Dragon]

Use Friends for Roleplay purposes. Samurai in Dnd are portrayed to be all about honor and prestige, having a Cantrip to help your negotiations go smoother would be a nice touch, and you can reskin to you’re just being incredibly persuasive.

[nickl_2000]

My opinion, go with a non-combat utility cantrip. Booming Blade and green flame blade will compete with your multiple attacks, true strike requires you to lose 1 round of attacks to possibly get 1 extra in the next round, it just doesn't seem worth it to me.

I would go with Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, or Mold Earth depending on what the rest of the party has.

[Xihirli]

Use Friends for Roleplay purposes. Samurai in Dnd are portrayed to be all about honor and prestige, having a Cantrip to help your negotiations go smoother would be a nice touch, and you can reskin to you’re just being incredibly persuasive.

Well not really, everyone you use it on hates you after the duration is over.

[Aett_Thorn]

True Strike is almost always a trap option, so I'd vote to avoid that.

If your Int is going to be high, and you're mainly going to be melee-focused, taking a ranged attack cantrip like Fire Bolt is always useful.

If your Int is low, taking a utility cantrip like Mage Hand, Light, Minor Illusion, or Nold Earth can be pretty helpful.

[Nifft]

Mage Hand, and it's constantly folding origami cranes while you pretend to pay attention to idiots.

Or it's holding your arrows as you swiftly and elegantly pull your bow.

Or it's steering your horse while you wave to the cheering crowd.

[Deathtongue]

For my money, you can't beat prestidigitation for roleplay purposes. Especially if you're going to be playing an honorable, clean-cut, noble samurai type. Nothing like always having cleaned hair and armor and adjustable perfume (by 'flavoring' your armor to taste and thus spell like peaches or whatever). Minor Illusion is also a good cantrip to have -- even if you're not much into the trickster possibilities, there's still storytelling possibilities like creating an image of a battlefield for people to look at.

If you just want a cantrip for damage, though, Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade are acceptable picks. If you can't use SCAG, there's always Fire Bolt for a ranged backup, though do note that unless you rolled like a Greek God you'll have a hard time hitting with it.


Use Friends for Roleplay purposes. Samurai in Dnd are portrayed to be all about honor and prestige, having a Cantrip to help your negotiations go smoother would be a nice touch, and you can reskin to you’re just being incredibly persuasive.I would only do this if you wanted to play a Darth Vader-style samurai who was all about crushing peoples' wills and being really scary. Since the other party is aware you're using a spell and becomes hostile/unfriendly to you afterwards. You don't care too much if you're just trying to scare them (Intimidation check) into dropping their weapons, but as far as making friends goes (despite the name of the spell) you do not want to do this.

[solidork]

My opinion, go with a non-combat utility cantrip. Booming Blade and green flame blade will compete with your multiple attacks, true strike requires you to lose 1 round of attacks to possibly get 1 extra in the next round, it just doesn't seem worth it to me.

I would go with Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, or Mold Earth depending on what the rest of the party has.

I strongly agree with this. Are you going to be the kind of Samurai who wants to give enemies a decent burial? Because Mold Earth will let you do that without making you convince your party that they should spend an hour digging a hole. Minor Illusion is great even if you don't try to trick anyone with it and just use it as a way to show people things that you've seen. No more describing the assassin to the palace guards; just show them their face.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Create bonfire means you always have fire, and there's nothing inherently magical about making a fire.

[Vogie]

I would also vote for a non-combat cantrip, with the exception of:

Shocking Grasp, which can stop targets from using reactions
Chill Touch, which stops targets from regenerating hit points

If your character is a troll hunter, for example, the fact that they have Chill touch to stop regeneration makes perfect sense.


Prestidigitation and Friends have already been covered. Gust & Control Flames also can give you the ability to look awesome with some other effects that Prestidigitation does not. Mending is also an excellent utility cantrip.

Minor Illusion would be perfect for a samurai, whether they be wandering, or in active service. I'm looking for this sword - Illusion. I'm looking for this person - Show illusion of an artist's rendition of them. I am walking towards other samurai or there are people walking towards me - Illusion of the family's banner or region's flag.

Message would also be a boon as a super-whisper.

[ATHATH]

Prestidigitation, for keeping your armor, your weapon, and yourself spotless.

[ImproperJustice]

Maybe sword burst for those rare times you are surrounded?

[sophontteks]

Prestidignation. You want to keep your robes and man bun clean. It can also be deceptively handy. I was creating the scent of rotting flesh, then creating hunks of meat and throwing them to lure enemies out.
I also casted the spell like a million times in my first two levels just to stay warm, clean my clothes, clean my surroundings, clean my comrades, mask odors with a lemony fresh scent, make bad food good, start fires, etc etc.

Mage hand and minor illusion are also really good for similiar reasons. All of these fit the kind of natural magic one would expect a high elf to have and fit the character really well.

If you do pick true strike. I challenge you to find a use for the spell.

[TheProfessor85]

Pick light, and cast it on your katana. Be reveered as a sword saint!

[ImproperJustice]

Pick light, and cast it on your katana. Be reveered as a sword saint!

Shooting an arrow with Light on it, can be a help to your friends.

[Vogie]

If you do pick true strike. I challenge you to find a use for the spell.

It's basically Guidance, but for combat. The only value it really has is if you cast it prior to rolling initiative.

[sophontteks]

It's basically Guidance, but for combat. The only value it really has is if you cast it prior to rolling initiative.
More like "Its like guidance but doesn't work outside of combat." True strike doesn't work in combat any better then guidance does afterall.

You can give yourself advantage if you use it right before making an attack that activates initiative. Except, that shot would probably be at advantage already. But, yeah, your right. Thats its one single use.

[hymer]

You can give yourself advantage if you use it right before making an attack that activates initiative. Except, that shot would probably be at advantage already. But, yeah, your right. Thats its one single use.

As DM, I'd rule that announcing the intention to cast True Strike means you're starting combat. If the player still wants to cast True Strike once initiative gets around to them, they can do it.

[sophontteks]

As DM, I'd rule that announcing the intention to cast True Strike means you're starting combat. If the player still wants to cast True Strike once initiative gets around to them, they can do it.

Well, I'll give it this. It has no verbal requirement, so it wouldn't always start combat. If the enemy diesn't notice and its not directly hostile, I wouldn't start initiative unless the other players were looking to do something hostile at the exact same time.

[Vogie]

As DM, I'd rule that announcing the intention to cast True Strike means you're starting combat. If the player still wants to cast True Strike once initiative gets around to them, they can do it.

That actually makes it more useless than it already is. The "casting" of True Strike is basically pointing at a target.

Essentially, it's a finger guns.

Yes, I suppose if your game is based on the movie Gran Torino, that would instigate combat. Also, if the enemy was a British Nanny from the 50's.

https://media.tenor.com/videos/d07b3a5f7e566c7befccc1b818dea24d/mp4
https://s-i.huffpost.com/gen/2256226/images/o-BLACK-HAND-POINTING-facebook.jpg

[hymer]

That actually makes it more useless than it already is. The "casting" of True Strike is basically pointing at a target.
I'm reminded of a funny quote from an old Dragon Magazine article I can't quite place (and I'm quoting from memory). It's a section about dealing with unreasonable players. After you've said 'roll initiative', the player objects: "He wouldn't know I'm casting a spell at him. I pretend I'm praying!" And the DM answers "Sure, and he pretends he isn't hitting you, but swatting a fly." That last bit is supposed to be sarcastic. :smallwink:

In a world where pointing a finger at someone is a common thing you do before attacking them, pointing your finger at someone is likely to make them react. It may not come to blows, but expect readied actions at the least.

[strangebloke]

Back to the actual topic, I'm a big fan of friends for this. Roll it as being very coercive. Sometimes you want to be coercive, right? There's tons of samurai stories where one samurai brutally intimidates another person and completely avoids combat, right? (all of my samurai knowledge comes from Usagi Yojimbo)


I'm reminded of a funny quote from an old Dragon Magazine article I can't quite place (and I'm quoting from memory). It's a section about dealing with unreasonable players. After you've said 'roll initiative', the player objects: "He wouldn't know I'm casting a spell at him. I pretend I'm praying!" And the DM answers "Sure, and he pretends he isn't hitting you, but swatting a fly." That last bit is supposed to be sarcastic. :smallwink:

In a world where pointing a finger at someone is a common thing you do before attacking them, pointing your finger at someone is likely to make them react. It may not come to blows, but expect readied actions at the least.

This is not super reasonable. I mean, if I'm in stealth, or at a party where he hasn't seen me yet, or if I do it sneaky-like underneath my cloak....

I mean, yes, technically, anyone who casts a spell is instantly revealed to everyone everywhere, unless there are neither verbal or somatic components.

[Sariel Vailo]

True strike.definitely true strike.

[sophontteks]

Yeah and every time I cast prestidigation in public I have to roll initiative vs. everyone who sees. I think people are dramatically overestimating how threatening and obvious casting is.

Spells like enthrall and suggestion wouldn't even work under those rules. If the target knows said person is using magic on them, they would be hostile. So how do those spells work? The entire premise of these spells is that the verbal component is speech. And the somantic component isn't some dance of war either. I tend not to murder people just for gesticulating.

Magic is not inherently hostile or obvious.

[strangebloke]

Yeah and every time I cast prestidigation in public I have to roll initiative vs. everyone who sees. I think people are dramatically overestimating how threatening and obvious casting is.

Spells like enthrall and suggestion wouldn't even work under those rules. If the target knows said person is using magic on them, they would be hostile. So how do those spells work? The entire premise of these spells is that the verbal component is speech. And the somantic component isn't some dance of war either. I tend not to murder people just for gesticulating.

Magic is not inherently hostile or obvious.

I've always rolled them as "Obvious to everyone not targeted by the spell."

So if you need to get past one guy, or you need to hit someone in combat, a single-target spell is fine, but if you want to avoid an encounter with a whole pack of people, you need to be more creative.

[sophontteks]

I've always rolled them as "Obvious to everyone not targeted by the spell."

So if you need to get past one guy, or you need to hit someone in combat, a single-target spell is fine, but if you want to avoid an encounter with a whole pack of people, you need to be more creative.

So everyone has full arcane knowledge able to distinguish, not only if a spell is being cast, but the nature of that spell as well? Purely by reading a persons body language and hearing their voice?

I had a woman curse me by holding my hand and whispering in my ear. Not only did my character not inherently know that he was cursed (I failed a save, but my character would have noticed no effect), but no party member had any idea she was doing anything being whispering to me. All but one who knew said NPC intimately, and thus recognized what was happening.


Verbal components with most charm spells are woven into the words themselves and somatic is little more then gesticulation, gesticulation so minor it can be performed with a handle free hand.There has to be a greater reason for an NPC to suspect something then casting alone so long as the spell itself is not immediately harmful.

[strangebloke]

So everyone has full arcane knowledge able to distinguish, not only if a spell is being cast, but the nature of that spell as well? Purely by reading a persons body language and hearing their voice?

I had a woman curse me by holding my hand and whispering in my ear. Not only did my character not inherently know that he was cursed (I failed a save, but my character would have noticed no effect), but no party member had any idea she was doing anything being whispering to me. All but one who knew said NPC intimately, and thus recognized what was happening.

Verbal components with most charm spells are woven into the words themselves and somatic is little more then gesticulation, gesticulation so minor it can be performed with a handle free hand.There has to be a greater reason for an NPC to suspect something then casting alone so long as the spell itself is not immediately harmful.

I mean, you're entitled to run it this way, but by RAW casting a spell with VSM is something that is considered inherently loud/disrupting. You can't cast from stealth, for example.

You assert something about somatic components (that they are minor gestures) that isn't really specified either way in RAW. When the Somatic components are spelled out, as with true strike, it seems safe to say that the somatic component might go unnoticed. But for *unspecified* somatic components, the level to which people won't notice the casting is kind of hard to guess at.

With Suggestion specifically, there is no somatic component and the verbal component is just a few words, so you might be able to hide the fact that you have an arcane focus or snake's tongue hidden up in your cloak.

I guess I should have said that the target can't notice the casting, but everyone else can. I rule that somatic components cannot generally be whispered, and that somatic components are generally pretty observable. (like the wind-up for the Kamehaha) Moreover, in many cases the effect is also really apparent.


Suggestion: "These aren't the droids you're looking for"
Commander: "You're right."
Subordinate: "did he just..."

[Spore]

Message to whisper memes into your victim's ear: While you were working for the villain I was studying the blade...

[sophontteks]

I mean, you're entitled to run it this way, but by RAW casting a spell with VSM is something that is considered inherently loud/disrupting. You can't cast from stealth, for example.

You assert something about somatic components (that they are minor gestures) that isn't really specified either way in RAW. When the Somatic components are spelled out, as with true strike, it seems safe to say that the somatic component might go unnoticed. But for *unspecified* somatic components, the level to which people won't notice the casting is kind of hard to guess at.

With Suggestion specifically, there is no somatic component and the verbal component is just a few words, so you might be able to hide the fact that you have an arcane focus or snake's tongue hidden up in your cloak.

I guess I should have said that the target can't notice the casting, but everyone else can. I rule that somatic components cannot generally be whispered, and that somatic components are generally pretty observable. (like the wind-up for the Kamehaha) Moreover, in many cases the effect is also really apparent.


Suggestion: "These aren't the droids you're looking for"
Commander: "You're right."
Subordinate: "did he just..."
I am not arguing if it can be noticed. I am arguing if it is a threat. If it is not a threat. No initiative. Casting predestigation in front of people. The casting is noticable, but its not a threat. Magic is not inherently hostile.

Yes, verbal is loud. You are speaking. You can't speak from stealth. But it is not inheritly hostile by raw. Many spells say exactly what the verbal and somantic actions are. Almost all charms are a part of normal speech. All somantic components can be done with one free hand.

How many things can I do with one hand that comes off as inherently threatening?

Read enthrall. Tell me how this spell can work as written under your rules. Wouldn't the targets know a spell is being cast and become alarmed/hostile? The spell is literally broken under your ruling.

edit:here just read this...
https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Spells#content
"Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise."

[hymer]

This is not super reasonable. I mean, if I'm in stealth, or at a party where he hasn't seen me yet, or if I do it sneaky-like underneath my cloak....

I mean, yes, technically, anyone who casts a spell is instantly revealed to everyone everywhere, unless there are neither verbal or somatic components.
I don't mean to say that if they don't know you're there for whatever reason that they will react to you doing something stealthily. But if you attack from such a position, you get advantage anyway, and wouldn't need to cast True Strike.

[strangebloke]

How many things can I do with one hand that comes off as inherently threatening?
well, cast spells, for one. Even if I don't know much about magic, if I see a guy waving his hand around an arcane focus whilst muttering and staring directly at me, I'm going to feel pretty threatened. If the spell lacks verbal components, I might not notice him, but if I do, it'll be pretty apparent what's going on. If the spell lacks material components or somatic it might not be apparent, depending on what the components are.

Read enthrall. Tell me how this spell can work as written under your rules. Wouldn't the targets know a spell is being cast and become alarmed/hostile? The spell is literally broken under your ruling.


I've always rolled them as "Obvious to everyone not targeted by the spell."

I guess I should have said that the target can't notice the casting, but everyone else can.

I think I've been pretty clear about this.


edit:here just read this...
https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Spells#content
"Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise."
Subtle effects might go unnoticed, but that begs the question: what's a subtle effect? A Suggestion is probably subtle, but what about Crown of Madness? What about Dominate Person? This stuff needs to be case-by-case, is all I'm saying. With respect to friends specifically, no, nobody would really notice, unless you're casting with an arcane focus instead of using a bit of makeup.

[Fayd]

I mean a hard a time as we give true strike, the classic image of samurai duels lends itself well to its use; patiently waiting with sudden explosive action? I’d say it actually works very well from a role play perspective in how you prepare for duels.

It might not be great from an optimization perspective but in a duel? With time to prep your strike, and where that first strike matters SO much? I can see it.

[TXMount]

I like the idea of having Mold Earth as an iaijutsu. Like, you draw your sword so fast, the wind of its passage cleaves a trench in the dirt. Or your final strike draws a symbol (your personal sigil, the symbol for "unworthy," etc.) around the corpse. Mold Earth can create difficult terrain, or *remove* it. Maybe it's like a Stone Cutter strike, that shears boulders off to leave flat, stable surfaces to traverse. You could get super cinematic with it. Read as written, it can't cause damage, but if your DM is cool with it, you might be able to cause someone to stumble or fall prone (ever walk down a staircase and think you had one more step?)

I also like Toll the Dead as a combat cantrip. Again, you could get very cinematic/anime style out of this. You dash past the enemy, and sheathe your sword while facing away: the sound of steel sliding into scabbard is like the ringing of a bell, and suddenly the enemy sprays blood from the phantom wounds you left. This is, I believe, the most damaging cantrip when used on enemies who are already missing HP (d8 versus a healthy enemy, d12 versus a wounded one)

[Vox Silentii]

just had a thought,

Wouldn't True Strike work well with Rapid Strike?
Turn one, you cast True Strike
Turn two, you cast Rapid Strike and THEN Fighting Spirit?
Giving you two free attacks with advantage

or does this not work?

[Wryte]

For my money, you can't beat prestidigitation for roleplay purposes. Especially if you're going to be playing an honorable, clean-cut, noble samurai type. Nothing like always having cleaned hair and armor and adjustable perfume (by 'flavoring' your armor to taste and thus spell like peaches or whatever).

I once found myself methodically cleaning a filthy rat warren 5 foot square by 5 foot square while the rest of my party was slugging it out with a pack of goblins, having ditched me because they weren't willing to wait 10 minutes for me to ritual cast a spell. They staggered away from the fight with nothing but a pittance of XP to show for it, while I collected a small fortune in loot that had been buried under the rat filth.

[Throne12]

Your a high elf you have some training in the arcane arts that's why you get a cantrip. So I say go with mage hand. Why mage hand well let me tell you.

1. It can hold the reins of your horse while you do other things.
2. Open traped doors and chest or set off traps.
3. Hold a lantern while ya'll are walking through a dungeon or other dark places because even though you have dark vision you still need a light source in darkness.
4. Free up your hands while eating.
5. Grad keys to unlock the jailcell.
6. Can use it to make noise to distract things.
7. Use it while hiding to pickpocket the wizards spellbook or the guards sword.
8. Have it pull a lever that on the other side of a pit.
9. Put a looped rope on a tree or rock on the other side of a canyon.
10. And many many more things.

[sophontteks]

well, cast spells, for one. Even if I don't know much about magic, if I see a guy waving his hand around an arcane focus whilst muttering and staring directly at me, I'm going to feel pretty threatened. If the spell lacks verbal components, I might not notice him, but if I do, it'll be pretty apparent what's going on. If the spell lacks material components or somatic it might not be apparent, depending on what the components are.

Subtle effects might go unnoticed, but that begs the question: what's a subtle effect? A Suggestion is probably subtle, but what about Crown of Madness? What about Dominate Person? This stuff needs to be case-by-case, is all I'm saying. With respect to friends specifically, no, nobody would really notice, unless you're casting with an arcane focus instead of using a bit of makeup.
The arcane focus replaces the material component, not the somantic. One can gesticulate while holding a focus, but they don't need to. They can just wave their free hand around while simply holding their focus.

The examples made it pretty clear. You would notice anything with a clear effect one would pick up with their senses. but I agree that it is case-by-case. Its the point I was making. This was all started because someone said pointing at someone to cast true strike would initiate combat.

[Asmotherion]

Im building a high elf samurai and i need to figure out what cantrip im taking.
Im thinking about True Strike since i have the Elven Accuracy Feat. So when i need more advantage i can use that.
But is it worth it? Since i have fighting spirit.
If not that then what else do you recommend? Booming blade maybe?
Im thinking that my character doesnt use magic but instead will use true strike as a "technique".
But im interested too see what you guys/girls recommend

Booming Blade can be "refluffed" as non-magical most of the time (still won't work in an anti-magic zone though, as it must still be slightly based on magic for balance purposes). But otherwise can be a technique of cuting the Air in a specific way. Same with Green-Flame Blade, though for fluffing it as a non magical version, you'd need a scabard full of alcohol, a weapon coated in soacked (with alcohol) flamable bandages or some similar idea, and part of the "tachnique" would create a spark to ignite it through friction of the weapon with an other body .

[darkmoonrise312]

I love how this topic devolved to talking about the subtlety of somatic components. But to the topic at hand, true strike would be a flavorful if somewhat ineffective option. If you can play up the samurai part and get into more duels rather than the normal skirmish, you might get more mileage out of it. The blade cantrips also are a great option for fighters, even if it clashes with extra attack at some levels.

For pure flavor, I like the image of a samurai swinging their blade so quickly that it generates wind, thus gust cantrip.

And lastly, if you are set on being a melee combatant, consider taking a ranged cantrip. Might not fit in as much aesthetically, but you’ll be thankful for it when the dragon won’t land and let you hit it with your katana. Maybe make it an elemental sword-beam a la Legend of Zelda?

[lilika]

Blade Ward, you won't get a huge amount of use with it and you won't use it in combat much at all. But you use it the turn before you kick down the door, or when you are walking into a situation that looks like an ambush, or when you have to walk through an obvious trap, or when you have run against enemies with a very very good chance to hit you (this is when its better than the dodge action). It's effect last until the end of your next turn so it can even help you against opportunity attacks that you take on your next turn.

[djreynolds]

booming blade, not much is resistant to thunder

minor image, it can be used for so many things

the only use of true strike is you lack a ranged attack, for some reason, and are closing the distance, so you may as well do something... no real use

blade ward isn't terrible, but you only have 1 cantrip

booming blade